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Naruto Moon Conundrum (Potential Upgrades)
- Thread starter TheFinalOrder
- Start date
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As an alternative and assuming that the mini-sphere is Toneri's castle and the greater hollowed area is the liviable section of the moo
3,474.8 km * (201/308) = 2267.645 km
This would also fit with @TataHakai previous image where only one side is near the crust, which explains the extreme thinness.
3,474.8 km * (201/308) = 2267.645 km
- IRL Moon Volume = 2.19678 x 10^10 square kilometers
- Hollowed Volume = 6.10554 x 10^9 square kilometers
This would also fit with @TataHakai previous image where only one side is near the crust, which explains the extreme thinness.
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If we are to assume a larger hollowness through Kep's Toneri vid and the Novel quote, we would first need to figure out an average thickness of the crust and then work from there.
I think Kep would want some say there since he figured that out first.
I think Kep would want some say there since he figured that out first.
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Did you use a spherical volume for the hollow area calc?
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@Kepekley23 Yeah. Got the diameter, halfed it and plugged it into 4/3¤Çr^3
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But I haven't converted the mass yet. Oh wait I see my mistake. I wrote "squared km" instead of "cubic km". I did the math right, just mixed up the terms
- RL Moon Volume - Hollowed Volume = 15,862,260,000 cubic km or 1.586226e+19 cubic meters
- Solid Mass: 1.586226e+19 x 3340 kg = 5.29799484e+22
- Hollow Mass: 6.10554e+18+ x 1.225 kg = 7.4792865e+18
- Total Mass = 5.29874276865e+22
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That's fine and dandy, but it still hinges on the assumption that the broken core is a literal representation of the Moon, which I'm pretty sure is speculation.
Anyway, we do know, based on this scene where Toneri blasts them away, that the forests and lakes are located on the Moon's surface. We also know that the Golem Statue and Kurama fell on the opposite side as Naruto and Hinata, but still met hollow ground (and were pulled towards the crust anwyay):
Based on that, we know the Moon would be at least look like this:
However, that doesn't make any sense because Kurama threw the golem to the opposite side of the yellow line I drew, so that side would also need to be hollow. And we have a good view of its surroundings when it hits the other side. None of the surrounding mass is solid.
Take Toneri's slice into account and it complicates that assumption even further.
At that point, it's much easier to assume the majority of the Moon is hollow and only localized portions are not. Like, I'd wager >80% and that's me being generous.
Anyway, we do know, based on this scene where Toneri blasts them away, that the forests and lakes are located on the Moon's surface. We also know that the Golem Statue and Kurama fell on the opposite side as Naruto and Hinata, but still met hollow ground (and were pulled towards the crust anwyay):
Based on that, we know the Moon would be at least look like this:
However, that doesn't make any sense because Kurama threw the golem to the opposite side of the yellow line I drew, so that side would also need to be hollow. And we have a good view of its surroundings when it hits the other side. None of the surrounding mass is solid.
Take Toneri's slice into account and it complicates that assumption even further.
At that point, it's much easier to assume the majority of the Moon is hollow and only localized portions are not. Like, I'd wager >80% and that's me being generous.
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This might just be the most silly CRT I have witnessed, and just solidifies my descision of not involving myself with VsB that much (Not trying to thow shade, but it is what it is). But still I will try to refute this hilarious claim of "99% Hollow moon" before it actually gets accepted, and makes VsB more of a joke than it already is
Facts about NV Moo
(1) This has already been stated, but considering everyone needs to reiterate points so it can get through dense heads present in-here, I will also do so. Center of Moon cannot be hollow because Gedo was present at the center of the moon in its sealed state. This is blatantly clear but is getting ignored, because this single-handedly destroys the notion of NV moon being completly hollow. Tenseigan being in the center of the moon is something stated in the Novels, not the movie which is the main canon. So an information which originates from a secondary source, and which blatantly contradicts the Manga, is being used as a justification of NV moon being hollow. Let that sink in.
(2) Now that is is established tenseigan cannot be in center, then where is it? It is somewhere close to the Moon's crust, as depicted in the movie. We definetly see the thin crust, and inside it is the hollowed region.
(3) Now that we have established it is somewhere close to Moon's crust, how deep and wide is the hollowed space? For this, lets recollect the reason why Otsutsuki even hollowfed the moon: To live on it. What were their numbers? Probably in thousands, tens of thousands at maximum. You can argue for more (Which would be completely baseless), but it would never justify the need to hollow out entirity of moo for it. A small portion was hollowed, that small portion currently is assumed to be 15%, which is ~3292905926 km^3. Assuming the hollowed volume to be sphere (Which it definetly is not, but since sphere gives us the lowest width possible we gonna go with it), we get ~923 as the Radius, which means width of hollowed space would be ~1846 km. Let's also find surface area while we are at it, which would be ~5798.8 km^2. Which is more than enough for Otsutsuki population to live comfortably. 15% assumption is more than generous. But as I said, the hollowed area is not sphere shaped, it should be more like an Ellipsoid, in which case the surface area would be much above the area than mentioned above. We can probably find "depth" by the clip posted by BMW where Kurama and golem were freefalling, but it is not necessary because 15% assumption is fine as it is.
(4) Now to come towards other reasoning given here, specifically Kep's moon split one; reasoning for it again was already given by Rocker. The reason why Toneri does not go through any rock is becase we are viewing it from inside the moon, aka from Hollowed space. Yes we will obviously not see any rock there, becuase ...... its hollowed. Yes the crust there is thin.......... because hollowed area is close to the crust (You can refer to image posted by tata as reference although it is not accurate depiction. Still good enough to understand the point I am trying to convey)
Bonus point: Even using common sense, one can come to the conclusion that NV moon is not hollow by just understanding the entire premise of Last movie and Toneri's objective. What was that? Toneri wanted to destroy NV earth by flinging it towards the planet, or if we go with more detailed explination, the major mass of moon would be divided into smaller pieces, bombarding the planet surface entirely, while the part protected by tenseigan would clash with earth, destroy it, and then Toneri reforms the planet according to him. If majority of volume would be hollowed....... the objective and the premise of entire movie makes no damn sense. We actually see pieces of moon travelling towards earth all over the countries too, so there is no contradiction in premise or understanding. Just something to think about.
That's pretty much it from my side.
Facts about NV Moo
(1) This has already been stated, but considering everyone needs to reiterate points so it can get through dense heads present in-here, I will also do so. Center of Moon cannot be hollow because Gedo was present at the center of the moon in its sealed state. This is blatantly clear but is getting ignored, because this single-handedly destroys the notion of NV moon being completly hollow. Tenseigan being in the center of the moon is something stated in the Novels, not the movie which is the main canon. So an information which originates from a secondary source, and which blatantly contradicts the Manga, is being used as a justification of NV moon being hollow. Let that sink in.
(2) Now that is is established tenseigan cannot be in center, then where is it? It is somewhere close to the Moon's crust, as depicted in the movie. We definetly see the thin crust, and inside it is the hollowed region.
(3) Now that we have established it is somewhere close to Moon's crust, how deep and wide is the hollowed space? For this, lets recollect the reason why Otsutsuki even hollowfed the moon: To live on it. What were their numbers? Probably in thousands, tens of thousands at maximum. You can argue for more (Which would be completely baseless), but it would never justify the need to hollow out entirity of moo for it. A small portion was hollowed, that small portion currently is assumed to be 15%, which is ~3292905926 km^3. Assuming the hollowed volume to be sphere (Which it definetly is not, but since sphere gives us the lowest width possible we gonna go with it), we get ~923 as the Radius, which means width of hollowed space would be ~1846 km. Let's also find surface area while we are at it, which would be ~5798.8 km^2. Which is more than enough for Otsutsuki population to live comfortably. 15% assumption is more than generous. But as I said, the hollowed area is not sphere shaped, it should be more like an Ellipsoid, in which case the surface area would be much above the area than mentioned above. We can probably find "depth" by the clip posted by BMW where Kurama and golem were freefalling, but it is not necessary because 15% assumption is fine as it is.
(4) Now to come towards other reasoning given here, specifically Kep's moon split one; reasoning for it again was already given by Rocker. The reason why Toneri does not go through any rock is becase we are viewing it from inside the moon, aka from Hollowed space. Yes we will obviously not see any rock there, becuase ...... its hollowed. Yes the crust there is thin.......... because hollowed area is close to the crust (You can refer to image posted by tata as reference although it is not accurate depiction. Still good enough to understand the point I am trying to convey)
Bonus point: Even using common sense, one can come to the conclusion that NV moon is not hollow by just understanding the entire premise of Last movie and Toneri's objective. What was that? Toneri wanted to destroy NV earth by flinging it towards the planet, or if we go with more detailed explination, the major mass of moon would be divided into smaller pieces, bombarding the planet surface entirely, while the part protected by tenseigan would clash with earth, destroy it, and then Toneri reforms the planet according to him. If majority of volume would be hollowed....... the objective and the premise of entire movie makes no damn sense. We actually see pieces of moon travelling towards earth all over the countries too, so there is no contradiction in premise or understanding. Just something to think about.
That's pretty much it from my side.
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Calling the wikia a joke is not a very good idea.Adam of darkness said:
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I am writing up a debunk.
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(1) Whether it's completely hollow or not is irrelevant to the argument I am trying to make. The fact is that it is shown to be pretty damn hollow. Similarly, Toneri's castle is on a geographic point that allows access to multiple sides of the Moon's surface.
The ridiculous assumption that it's close to the crust is completely and utterly unjustified in the movie itself. Naruto was thrown towards one of the Moon's faces. Kurama and the Golem fell towards a completely different face, in a completely different angles, but the castle was still geographically above them. I've linked the actual scans here. People who are near the floor level of the Moon look up and see Toneri's castle as the center of the Moon's "sky".
All of this would be impossible were the castle not close to the lunar center.
That already takes care of your entire wall of text by itself, sans this:
(Bonus point)
2: Even an explosion stretching to the exatons can rip the Earth to pieces, so this is irrelevant to the Moon's mass. It'd still be around 5-C. More than enough.
Reducing the Earth to dust is barely 5-C by itself, lol.
The ridiculous assumption that it's close to the crust is completely and utterly unjustified in the movie itself. Naruto was thrown towards one of the Moon's faces. Kurama and the Golem fell towards a completely different face, in a completely different angles, but the castle was still geographically above them. I've linked the actual scans here. People who are near the floor level of the Moon look up and see Toneri's castle as the center of the Moon's "sky".
All of this would be impossible were the castle not close to the lunar center.
That already takes care of your entire wall of text by itself, sans this:
(Bonus point)
- What was that? Toneri wanted to destroy NV earth by flinging it towards the planet, or if we go with more detailed explination, the major mass of moon would be divided into smaller pieces, bombarding the planet surface entirely, while the part protected by tenseigan would clash with earth, destroy it, and then Toneri reforms the planet according to him. If majority of volume would be hollowed....... the objective and the premise of entire movie makes no damn sense. '
2: Even an explosion stretching to the exatons can rip the Earth to pieces, so this is irrelevant to the Moon's mass. It'd still be around 5-C. More than enough.
Reducing the Earth to dust is barely 5-C by itself, lol.
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I did not say you're arguing for entire moon to be hollow, but you are arguing for majority of it being hollow (90% and above from what I read above). And Proof of this statement is.......? Also, what kind of access are you referring to ? Be more specificKepekley23 said:
The ridiculous assumption that it's close to the crust is completely and utterly unjustified in the movie itself.
And the ridicolous assumption of it being in the center contradicts the working and description of CT, AND the canon manga.
Naruto was thrown towards one of the Moon's faces. Kurama and the Golem fell towards a completely different face, in a completely different angles, but the castle was still geographically above them
Kurama freefalled to one side of the moon, and naruto was blasted at another angle towards the surface, but they were not on the opposite phases of moon. Tenseigan still being geographically above them indicates that it is at the center of hollowed space, not at the center of moon. This also makes perfect sense, and does not contradict anything
I've linked the actual scans here. People who are near the floor level of the Moon look up and see Toneri's castle as the center of the Moon's "sky".
Do so again? Because I did not find any scans from movie, but only from novels.
1: The mass that was shown being ripped off the Moon doesn't even top 1e18kg.
Not the point. Island sized masses were visible, and dozens of them. If the moon was nearly hollow, that would have affected the outer appearance of the moon, but it did not
2: Even an explosion stretching to the exatons can rip the Earth to pieces, so this is irrelevant to the Moon's mass. It'd still be around 5-C. More than enough.
This is correct, I concede on this one. However, that would mean Moon acceleration is probably much higher than it is currently calculated, if we assume majority of moon to be hollow.
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A rough diagram to put across my point better (Yes this is Tata's diagram, I added my explaination on it. Dont sue me)
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I'll respond to the first post later, but, being fully honest with you, that diagram is obvious bull. Naruto was blasted to a point where the Earth wasn't visible from the lunar surface in the sky. In fact, the Earth only sprung up from beneath the Moon once Toneri and Naruto began navigating the Moon, and it looked immensely bigger than what was shown in the battle between Kurama and the Golem, where it was visible all the time.
That right there is enough to prove they were thrown at completely different parts of the Moon.
That right there is enough to prove they were thrown at completely different parts of the Moon.
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Also:
That entire gash I circled in red was shown to be hollow in the Toneri scene. That auto 'bunks the diagram Tata showed.
That entire gash I circled in red was shown to be hollow in the Toneri scene. That auto 'bunks the diagram Tata showed.
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If what you suggest is true, that would mean Naruto and Toneri covered a decent portion of Moon's circumference. Which is false because we see hinata was quite literally floating above naruto and Toneri, and we all know Hinata was inside a cage, locked by toneri, and staionary at one place. Ergo, they did not cover that much distance, at least not as much as you are claiming they did. They were just fighting in a limited area, back and forth. "No earth seen= proof of them being on other side!" is also bull because we did not see any clear space shot wrt moon surface in Naruto vs Toneri like we did in Kurama vs Golem
As for Earth looking big and small, that is just artistic liscence.
My diagram may be bull for you, but it still fits well without contradicting anything.
As for Earth looking big and small, that is just artistic liscence.
My diagram may be bull for you, but it still fits well without contradicting anything.
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surface of the ocean is warped?
https://youtu.be/gHt6CHY5-jY?t=2225
https://youtu.be/gHt6CHY5-jY?t=2225
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No it wasnt. I already covered this in my first commentKepekley23 said:Also:
That entire gash I circled in red was shown to be hollow in the Toneri scene. That auto 'bunks the diagram Tata showed.
Only thing that was shown hollowed was the already hollowed space, which obviously does not cover entire moonAdam of darkness said:
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Kep, bruh...
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Btw, while I disagree with the moon being hollow, I have a question, Kep.
- Say the moon was completely hollow and only the crust remained, how dense would the crust have to be to even have comparable mass to the moon just to have Gravity comparable to the moon?
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That seems like an issue you have on your country, but people know what I'm talking about either way and I have provided screenshots.
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The crust doesn't really seem that dense considering the rock that was broken apart by the Earth does not sink back to the Moon, even at sides where the Earth's gravity wouldn't pull them in.
Anyway, I have replaced the link in my latest post: https://gfycat.com/wavycommondarwinsfox
Anyway, I have replaced the link in my latest post: https://gfycat.com/wavycommondarwinsfox
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If the moon is gonna be hollow, it's crust has to be denser to make up for the lost mass, just to have Gravity Equal to our moon, which would still be pulled apart by the stronger gravity.Kepekley23 said:
Unless of course you're gonna make the claim that NV moon doesn't have comparable gravity to ours now.
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That'd be the case even if the Moon were just 5% hollow with the same size though. Otherwise it'd collapse under its own gravity. Remember that the Moon was hollowed out by Hamura, who participated in creating the CT.
Also, remember the Moon's gravity in the verse is shown to come from somewhere in the lower crust. People are shown falling towards it.
Also, remember the Moon's gravity in the verse is shown to come from somewhere in the lower crust. People are shown falling towards it.
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............. And this does not prove moon is hollowed at those area. How do you even come to that conclusion brehKepekley23 said:
- Toneri forms his blade and swings
- The slice is shown to cut through entire moon, from where kurama and Golem were fighting. Ergo from the hollowed space.
- Extension covers most of the moon circumference, we see the slice from a PoV outside of moon after it has already sliced up solid portion, and is now going through hollow one.
Toneri slicing
Blade going through moon's circumference, which we see from hollowed region
Now, we are shown the cut from outside
And then, we see where the last last panel was wrt moon
Finally, to fit this in the diagram I made above
I cannot make this more simple.
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False. Your diagram suggests that only the uppermost portion of the Moon is hollow, but that completely contradicts what we see in the Kurama and Golem fall scene. Again, Naruto literally watches them fall at an angle before being throw torwards a parallel side of the Moon's surface. Your diagram completely contrdicts both what we see happening in the scene, analso contradicts the cuts between Kurama and the Golem fighting/Toneri and Naruto fighting.
Here is how your diagram is completely against what the scene portrays:
Here is how your diagram is completely against what the scene portrays:
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Kep, lets just say the moon is 99 percent Hollow, what tier would it make it?
6-A im assuming?
6-A im assuming?
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Couldn't we just meet in the middle and say half of it is hollow, Or is that just dumb?.
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At this point you are arguing just for the sake of arguing. Change the position of castle and it literally proves my point. Let's try to justify why my posisioning is the correct one.
Looks familiar?
- Kurama and golem are launched in a straight line nearly perpendicular to castle
- Naruto sees that, and we see Naruto is flying above the castle
- Toneri comes in and blasts them through moon surface at an angle wrt to castle. But it is definetly less that 90, considering he was sent flying in direction just above castle
- Ergo, angle between Kurama and Toneri's crater is> 90, that much is known
Looks familiar?
A rough diagram to put across my point better (Yes this is Tata's diagram, I added my explaination on it. Dont sue me)Adam of darkness said:
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