Naruto Denied Sub-Relativistic Scaling?

[TheFinalOrder]

Just realized Toneri's GWRE is calced and accepted as Sub-Rel...why doesn't Naruto scale in Reactions? If it's because of his base, remember:

• Base Naruto could React to Sasuke

• Base Naruto could react to Enhanced Momoshiki

• Speed Wise, Sasuke is ~ A stronger Naruto than in the Last and Momoshiki could react to Sasuke

So why is Naruto denied the scaling? Nothing contradicts this. That's tantamount to denying DCEU Wonder Woman MHS+ Reactions for blocking Lightning. Why?

 

[Blanked]

I don't know, but if Naruto never reacted on that specific attack than that would be the reason.

On the other side if he reacted on that specific attack his reaction speed could of easily been MHS+ depending on how far Toneri was from Naruto when he Attacked him.

Third option would be that it simple wasn't calculated, but I doubt it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I've been curious about this as well.

Also, why is Toneri's attacks Sub-Rel but not the likes of superior god tiers? Kaguya and Momoshiki should be breezing by Toneri in stats. Likely even Madara as well. but maybe not Obito.

 

[Blanked]

@Prof Because being stronger doesn't always mean being as fast or faster.

In particular if that's with one attack only.

 

[Dark649]

Do not attempt to upgrade Naruto to sub-relativistic speed, especially based on feats from Naruto, The Last. This is an extremely exhausted topic that has been repeatedly addressed and denied on the basis of abuse of cimematic timing.

Anyway even if considered [which i hope it does not happen] nothing will happen because no revisions for Naruto until the naruto project will be over.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

It's attack speed, so it can't scale.

That said, I think there was a reason, but I don't remember.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I think because Naruto was a considerable distance away from the sword.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Even I'm somewhat curious to why it wasn't accepted if Naruto reacted to GWRE, and I'm just as exasperated as everyone else about Naruto topics.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So if at least Kaguya we're to fight Toneri, he blitzes her with the attack?

I can understand if Naruto wouldnt scale but not Kaguya. The thought of Toneri being faster than her in any way doesn't sit well at all.

 

[Blanked]

So if at least Kaguya we're to fight Toneri, he blitzes her with the attack?

I can understand if Naruto wouldnt scale but not Kaguya. The thought of Toneri being faster than her in any way doesn't sit well at all.

Not really. It would depend on the distance between Toneri and Kaguya.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

That's just how it works. I also find it a little funny that Toneri could attack Kaguya before she can react regardless of the distance, but those kinds of things don't matter.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Why would distance be a factor? We're going off of a logical encounter, not something to fit the purpose for arguments sake.

If Toneri ever tried even laying a finger on Kaguya he'd get stomped. If no one else, there should be no reason why Toneri is faster at something than Kaguya. Naruto may not be reacting to Toneri's attack in normal circumstances but Kaguya certainly should. Same for Momoshiki and likely Madara.

Obito....maybe not.

 

[Blanked]

The distance matter because if they are on 100 meters and Kaguya has MHS+ reactions she would have no problem reacting on his attack due to the distance his attack needs to travel before hitting her.

Also, again greater AP =\= greater speed.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@William

Kaguya quite clearly is much faster than Toneri. Casually blitzing higher forms of Naruto and Sasuke at first. But attack speed doesn't follow the rules of normal scaling, iirc.

 

[Blanked]

Faster than Toneri can move not attack. People create too much mess around this. And again it's one attack only.

Gonna upgrade Acnologia and Zeref on sub-rel cause they are stronger than Irene...

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

say, if Naruto got blitzed by kaguya (not multiple, but a few times), all the while having nanosecond reaction speeds, wouldn't that make kaguya at least sub-relativistic? and if not, wouldn't Naruto's feat of blitzing her with vapor release be on that range?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

That's sort of what I said.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

dvd

 

[Dark649]

Wouldn't that make kaguya at least sub-relativistic? and if not, wouldn't Naruto's feat of blitzing her with vapor release be on that range?

Discussed and rejected multiple times.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

And that is a pretty big IF. That example is only suiting the purpose of arguments, not detailing what would logically happen. Kaguya and Toneri have no reason to start at any distance in a fight less than normal and it sounds very ridiculous to say Toneri could tag Kaguya with any of his attacks.

Unless someone has a good explanation, whatever Toneri has should be scaling to Kaguya.

 

[Blanked]

That's sort of what I said.

Than what are we discussing? (Do i really have to specify it's attack speed? Thought people can just figur it out) lol.

 

[Js250476]

Is the problem the feat itself? Cause Naruto definitely scales to Toneri he certainly isn't vastly weaker then him

 

[Blanked]

@Proff it's not ridiculous to say he can attack faster as he indeed has a feat that proves that.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Is the problem the feat itself? Cause Naruto definitely scales to Toneri he certainly isn't vastly weaker then him

Naruto's obviously superior to him, but I think the issue is the distance he reacted to the attack from.

 

[Blanked]

The problem with Naruto reacting on it is cinematic timing.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

yeah, that means he had time, and timing/time is everything in battle.

 

[Blanked]

The problem with Naruto reacting on it is cinematic timing.

@lorenzo this^

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

lol, we commented at the same time, my bad lol (I didn't see yours on my page, so I guess u commented yours while I was finishing mine)

 

[Blanked]

^Pretty much.

Anyway, might as well close this, if everyone is okay with it.

The answer on the thread is "because of the cinematic timing not being applicable for Naruto's reaction on Toneri's attack".

And i think that if necessary this can be talked about later with revisions(that we all hope will soon happen lol).

 

[Heatforce]

@Dark649, I know the topic is exhausted but still, isn't the Naruto revision project in limbo since Gwyn left? Also, Screw Attack pretty much opened the Light Fang, Pandora's Box. Not that they are a reason to upgrade Naruto but the hype around the battle will surely lead to similar posts from new users. Isn't there a way to make everyone happy so fans can discuss without polluting the wiki by creating multiple threads on the same topic?

 

[LordAizenSama]

Wow im helping naruto out. Whats wrong with me.

We long accepted cinematic timeframes but the calc was made before we accepted that, thus it wasnt accepted.

 

[Blanked]

Wow im helping naruto out. Whats wrong with me.

We long accepted cinematic timeframes but the calc was made before we accepted that, thus it wasnt accepted.

All according to keikaku?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I'm 80% sure it's not cinematic timing in this case, but rather the distance. I vaguely remember a thread like this.

 

[Blanked]

I'm 80% sure it's not cinematic timing in this case, but rather the distance. I vaguely remember a thread like this.

Just look at the threads @Dark linked lol.

You were actually part of one of them.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

That's not it.

 

[Blanked]

That's not it.

Than i don't know. If someone is in the mood to check this thing out feel free to do it.

 

[Heatforce]

@LordAizenSama, makes you awesome. I did not know cinematic timing was now accepted.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

can someone enlighten good ol me, 2001-born child, on what cinematic timing is? (how the frames are set up, or how fast that scene is going considering the characters speed?)

 

[Kepekley23]

Wouldn't Sasuke's kirin speed be an example of MHS+ tpo Sub-Relativistic attack speed, due to it traveling 2-3km in 1/1000th of a second?

I'm almost sure Minato has a sub-relativistic feat somewhere, too. Not to mention Guy's speed being 100x his base speed of Mach 1293 (likely an outlier, though)

 

[TheFinalOrder]

In the Last, Naruto Landed somewhere within 200 m away from Toneri. Naruto started running towards him before he fired it. That's irrelevant as Naruto Didn't raise his hand to block until it was less than 15 m away from him.

We can't calc it because that's calc stacking, but the calc that was made put Naruto's Reaction higher than Toneri's Attack Speed. That said, Naruto should scale, nothing really stops him from scaling.