Naruto Characters Upgrade

[Dariel_Senju]

Original Title: " Naruto Characters Upgrade of Country-Small Continent-Continent Level Attack Potency and Massively Hipersonic+ to Sub Relativistic Speed"

Well they recommended me exhaustively that if I had any problem with the statistics of the profiles I would create a topic in this subforum, then let's see what happens once it is tried.

This issue is given by a couple of errors that I found in an accepted calculation of Nagato that affect the attack power of your Chibaku Tensei. This is the calculation made by the calculation group member Gwynbleiddd https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kkapoios/Nagato's_Chibaku_Tensei

Among others, the main mistake is to have chosen wrong one of the elements used to measure the size of the objects at the end. The mountain that Gwynbleiddd takes is an error, since as it is seen in this image the mountain in which was the hiding place of Nagato was a mountain full of vegetation, totally green:


But Gwynbleiddd takes a totally rocky mountain and different from the one shown in the previous image, this being a crucial error in the calculation. Well, the mountain that Gwynbleiddd had to take was right next to it and it is the one that has the orange line in the image, a mountain full of trees totally green and identical to the one shown, in fact it is the hiding place of Nagato.


Click there to see the full post --------------------------------->

To determine the level of the feat I will do it in three ways:

1. Based on the calculation of Gwynbleiddd, but instead of taking the wrong mountain, I will take the size of the correct one.
2. Correcting the calculation of Gwynbleiddd that has a base error, at the beginning he calculates wrong the radius of the tree where Konan and Nagato hide, instead of 9.76 m, the calculation gives 9.46 m. A difference of only 30 centimeters that translates into kilometers of difference later.
3. With a version of the calculation made by me but with some differences to that of Gwynbleiddd.

Although there isn't much difference between the results of the three calculations, it is better to have something precise as a result, we can debate which is more accurate and which one is going to be used.¨

Attack Potency

Gwynbleiddd's Calc (Correct Mountain)


Mountain = 10px = 3414 m

Chibaku Tensei = 364px = 124269.6 m - 62134.8 m

Volume = 1.004e+15 m3

Mass = 2.713e+18 kg

Height = 393px = 134170.2 m

Energy = 3.570e+24 joule (Continent Level - 853.47 Teratons)

Crater length = 727px = 248197.8 m

Gwynbleiddd's Calc (Fixed)
Tree Radius = 9.46 m

Tree Diameter = 18.92 m


Tree Diameter = 59px = 18.92 m

Tree Height = 427px = 136.92 m


Tree = 6px = 136.92 m

Mountain = 145px = 3308.9 m


Mountain = 10px = 3308.9 m

Chibaku Tensei = 364px = 120443.96 m - 60221.98 m

Height = 393px = 130039.77 m

Volume = 9.148e+14 m3

Mass = 2.470e+18 kg

Energy = 3.151e+24 joule (Small Continent Level+ - 753.13 Teratons)

There isn't much difference between both results thrown by the correction of Gw calculation.

Crater length = 727px = 240557.03 m

My Own calculation


Konan = 61px = 1.69 m

Tree Radius = 320px = 8.86 m

Tree Diameter =8.86x2 = 17.72 m


Tree Diameter = 38px = 17.72 m

Tree Height = 212px = 98.85 m


Tree = 6px = 98.85 m

Mountain = 146px = 2405.35 m


Mountain = 16px = 2405.35 m

Chibaku Tensei = 472px = 70957.82 m - 35478.765 m

Height = 510px = 76670.53 m

Volume = 1.870e+14 m3

Mass = 5.050e+17 kg

Energy = 3.798e+23 joule (Country Level+ - 90.79 Teratons)

Crater Length = 960px = 144321 m

Speed Calc
Well, I also perform a calculation based on Gwynbleiddd results so my calculation is affected in the same way. I calculated the speed of Rasen Shuriken and the speed of Deva Path who eluded him.

Well the timeframe was calculated based on the time it would take to drop Deva Path to the ground, you can see it on my blog. However, it must be taken into account that the time it takes the Rasen Shuriken to cross the CT crater is less than the time it takes for Nagato to fall (0.61 seconds), the Rasen Shuriken crosses all that distance, hits and creates an explosion that throws piles of debris everywhere and still Deva was not even half falling. Therefore the timeframe is an estimate based on that, in my blog I took the estimate that the RS travels the crater in 1/3 of the time it takes Nagato to fall, but this time I preferred to use only 1/2 of the Fall time since it is a more accessible Low End. However, it can be debated which timeframe to use if one smaller or greater than the current one.

Gwynbleiddd's Calc (Correct Mountain)
Crater = 363px = 248197.8 m

Timeframe = 0.305 seconds

Rasen Shuriken = 813763.27 m/s (Massively Hipersonic - Mach 796)

Distance = 0.21 m

Time = 2.580e-7 seconds

Distance = 1.14 m

Deva Speed = 4417572.03 m/s (Sub-Relativistic - Mach 12981); 1.47% SoL

Gwynbleiddd's Calc (Fixed)
Crater = 240557.03 m

Timeframe = 0.305 seconds

Rasen Shuriken = 788711.57 m/s (Massively Hipersonic - Mach 771)

Distance = 0.21 m

Time = 2.662e-7 seconds

Distance = 1.14 m

Deva Speed = 4281577.09 (Sub-Relativistic - Mach 12582); 1.42% SoL

My Own calculation
Crater length = 144621.66 m

Timeframe = 0.305 seconds

Rasen Shuriken Speed = 474169.37 m/s (Massively Hipersonic - Mach 1393)

Distance = 0.21 m

Time = 4.428e-7 seconds

Distance = 1.14 m

Deva Speed = 2574062.29 m/s (Massively Hipersonic - Mach 7564)

Powerscaling
Well we are going to the interesting, whatever the accepted of the three, of the calculated feats a huge amount of Narutoverse characters receive powerscaling for one reason or another. I quote the main ones below, but there are quite a few more characters

Speed
To start at speed, they receive powerscaling from Rasen Shuriken, the normal Bijudamas from the Bijuus and the Yasaka no Magatama from Itachi, which were on par with the Rasen Shuriken in speed.

From the speed of Deva Path dodging the Rasen Shuriken a much greater amount gets powerscaling because Deva isn't even faster than Base Naruto is the one who can fight as equals with him even when he was tired after losing the Sage Mode.

From there almost all the Narutoverse receives powerscaling and we will have to talk about the speed of the characters, since the minimum result thrown is greater than Mach 4000, and if Naruto Base exceeds that speed in its consequent transformations, it is logical that it surpasses Massively Hipersonic speed since its state Sage Mode, Nine Tails Chakra Mode, Kurama Mode, Six Paths Sage Mode are gradually faster until it reaches its final phase where it is overwhelmingly faster than in its base state.

Attack Potency
In power of attack many characters receive powerscaling also, I will list the most important and the reasons and evidence for which they receive this powerscaling:

— First Nagato himself. He states that he was able to perform a larger Chibaku Tensei if necessary to contain Naruto Eight Tails. So using the Chibaku Tensei Nagato is at least the accepted tier from these calculations. As it is known Nagato using his own body is able to perform his techniques with more power so in that state his tier is higher.

— Kurama Yang in his form of Eight Tails was able to free himself from the technique so he receives powerscaling, Nagato himself said he needed to make it bigger to try to contain it. Kurama Yang is stronger than in his Eight-Tails form so he receives powerscaling as well.

— Naruto Sage Mode receives powerscaling since it is on par with Pain, which led to the extreme and defeated, this is manifested by Black Zetsu. He also receives powerscaling from Kurama Yang (who only needed his Eight-Tails status to free himself with ease) with which he fought and was able to overcome and defeat twice during his fight (Kurama gave Naruto more trouble for his ability to corrupt him with emotions negative and that's why I need help from Kushina).

— Naruto Nine Tails Chakra Mode also receives powerscaling since it is much stronger than Naruto Sage Mode. He was able to destroy even the Chibaku Tensei of Nagato with the help of Itachi and Killer B; but we must bear in mind that Naruto at that time only had a portion of the total power in that way because he divided his power between 13 clones and the original. That is, Naruto and each clone only had around 7% of its total power. Even with those conditions Naruto was superior to his Sage Mode status, he and his clones were able to perform great feats such as defeating Kages from the same level of a Bijuu, destroying the aforementioned Chibaku Tensei with help, etc.

— Sasuke MS and EMS receive powerscaling of both mentioned versions of Naruto. who is mentioned by Black Zetsu as someone who is not very under Naruto Sage Mode. Later Naruto himself states that if he fought with Sasuke, they would both die; and that he would need the Nine Tails Chakra Mode to defeat him.

— Fourth Raikage he gets powerscaling by being at the level of Sasuke MS and almost killing him a couple of times during his battle.

— Danzo who was equal or stronger than Sasuke MS.

— Itachi receives powerscaling to help destroy the Chibaku Tensei, prove to be on par with Nagato and Sasuke in their MS and EMS forms.

— Kabuto Sage Mode receives powerscaling to be able to fight with Sasuke and Itachi at the same time and overcome them in some moments. Likewise, several of his Edo Tensei receive powerscaling of this feat.

— Jiraiya receives powerscaling from Nagato claiming that he was able to defeat the Six Paths of Pain. He also should not be far below Naruto Sage Mode.

— Orochimaru resurrected also receives powerscaling since he can use several Edo Tensei that are at the level of this feat and / or receive powerscaling from it.

— Killer B in his transformation of full Bijuu also receives powerscaling, is on a par with Kurama Yang. He receives powerscaling from his brother the Fourth Raikage, from Sasuke, from the Third Raikage, etc.

— Third Raikage receives powerscaling to be on par with the Eight-Tails being tied. He is equal or stronger than his son. He was also able to fight with a clone of Naruto Nine Tails Chakra Mode without being defeated more than by the knowledge of his weak point by the blond.

— All the other seven Bijuus receive powerscaling, they are not much weaker than their other two brothers. They are close or on par with their power.

— Rasa receives powerscaling from Shukaku who could stop on several occasions to destroy Sunagakure.

— Gaara receives powerscaling from Rasa, he is equal or stronger than his father.

— Gengetsu Hozuki receives powerscaling from both, he is definitely stronger than Rasa and stronger than Gaara, he needed the combination of Onoki, Gaara and a bit of his father's power to stop him.

— Mu who is at the same level of Gengetsu as well, they killed themselves in a battle.

— Onoki is equal or stronger than Gaara and the Fourth Raikage also receives powerscaling.

— Obito MS, Obito Rinnegan and higher forms receive powerscaling from Sasuke MS, Naruto Sage Mode, Fourth Raikage, Danzo, Naruto Nine Tails Chakra Mode, Naruto Kurama Mode, Killer B. With the power of the Gedo Mazo and his Rinnegan is able to bend the Bijuus easily.

— Hiruzen, the Third Hokage receives powerscaling, at least in his best state since he was mentioned as the most powerful Shinobi of his time and someone unbeatable. In his era he lived with ninjas like Hanzo, Onoki, Third Raikage, etc.

— Tobirama is stronger than Hiruzen and in the same way was mentioned as the most powerful ninja of his time living with ninjas like Mu, Gengetsu, etc.

— Madara MSE, Edo Madara, and higher states receive powerscaling. He was the second most powerful at the time above Tobirama and any other ninja. Humillo to Mu without even using his real power. Much more powerful than the Gokage combined, several of which have already received powerscaling.

— Hashirama receives powerscaling by being stronger than Madara, whom he defeated without using all his power, that means, in base state. Subsequently, he defeated Madara combined with Complete Kurama. It was mentioned that there were no ninjas of his level by Kabuto (and that includes almost everyone mentioned in this list), Madara also mentions that the Gokage are nothing compared to him and that Hashirama was the only one capable of stopping him. Edo Hashirama tied with Edo Madara to be both immobile at the end of their fight.

Justification
Naturally for X or Y reason an update of this magnitude can not be taken lightly and we must analyze everything in depth. You can check the accuracy of the calculation, the method used is too precise and was revised several times to avoid errors.

We are going to deal with relevant topics in this section, since for some reason and with all rights, someone can doubt the viability and certainty of this calculation. It is almost certain that someone very observant mentioned a factor such as the fact that the CT image shows clouds near a very large height that does not happen on our planet. However, the height of these clouds are irrelevant to this issue, since Naruto is full of things that can not happen in our world without being transcendent for this, like gigantic bamboo trees, gigantic fauna like frogs hundreds of times bigger than a normal toad, snakes, slugs, talking monkeys and become sticks as hard as the diamond, hawks, tapirs, leeches, centipedes, and a long long list of things like this that can not occur in our world. Also not only Naruto is full of such eccentricities but literally almost any verse on this wiki has the same, exceeding and breaking physical laws, etc. without devaluing the exploits. Therefore if someone will say that this calculation can not be taken into account by a factor like that, it is wrong.

The other issue would be the qualifier outlier. The reason why he is not an outlier is because this calculation was accepted only that he had some errors that altered the result, it is still the same feat only that much more precise. Nor is an outlier as a result of very strong characters like Obito Jinchuriki is currently listed in Country Level, because like the result thrown in principle I am 100% sure that this tier is also wrong and far from what should really have. This is because the best deeds of Naruto have not been calculated and the relevant ones for his tier, either, at least for the most part. The Jubi has exploits such as disappearing hundreds of kilometers of mountains with a destructive beam in just 2 seconds, throwing a result lightly is almost certain that the result of calculating such feat is greater than the Country Level by much.

Anyway, any inconvenience with the result is going to be discussed here in this topic and we will come to a conclusion.

Conclusion
And basically those would be the most important characters that would receive scaling, but there are certainly others that can be sought and receive powerscaling of any of these characters. I'm a little exhausted after creating such a broad topic so I will not say much more, let's see what happens, here are the tests, the calculations, the feats.

 

[Golden_Void]

Edited for length.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

Oh, thanks for the ShowHide.

 

[Antvasima]

Given that Meosos is already supposed to organise a Naruto revision with help from Darkanine and possibly Unite My Rice, I think that it is best if you directly talk with him about this.

I will ask both Meosos and Darkanine to comment here.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Erm, wait. Sage Mode Naruto? Didn't he defeat Kurama only with Chō Ōdama Rasengan spam and Rasenshuriken which bypasses durability to an extent?

He fought on par with Pain, but the problem is that Pain isn't at that level normally without his Chibaku Tensei, which Sage Mode Naruto didn't have anything to do with, as far as I remember.

For Eight Tailed Naruto, KCM Naruto and above, if the calculation is correct, I guess so. Let's see what others think.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Question: Bee, Itachi and KCM Naruto destroyed Nagato's Chibaku Tensei but that one wasn't fully formed and they aimed at the core no less. So why is it stated to be as powerful as Pain's one which was fully formed?

Edit: Also, even if it does scale (which is stupid. see above), they were only able to achieve it with their strongest moves (Bijuu dama, Yasaka Magatama, Rasen Shuriken) so it doesn't scale to them normally which also makes it non-scalable to others.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Also why do we separate nagatos tier with chibaku tensei and then not do that for naruto and sasuke who are only rated moon level because of chibaku tensei? I remember Kkapois and a few others wanting that downgraded

 

[KuuIchigo]

^ Also that. A reminder as to what he said:

Personally i think that Chibaku Tensei shouldn't be used to justify their general stats, it's a special jutsu that they could only use 1 time and it was the only thing that could stop Kaguya. Just look at Nagato. He hasn't shown anything close to High 6-C without CT so he is on that level with it and his other attacks being judged by their own feats. Six Paths users are a similar case with their best feats being around Continent to Multi-Continent level but for the sake of having them at Moon level we threw logic out of the window and choose to accept the general it uses chakra reasoning. I mean Kirin uses a lot of chakra so every technique that uses a lot of chakra should be that strong.(kappa) But that's just my opinion and i know most people won't agree with it.
	~ Gwynbleiddd​

 

[Antvasima]

@KuuIchigo & LordAizenSama

So this is a bad idea then? Should I close the thread?

 

[LordAizenSama]

I'm not sure if it needs to be closed, should probably discuss it some more whenever the relevent people see the thread, because naruto revisions need to happen one way or another may aswell do it here

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I am still waiting for Meosos to organise the revision and Darkanine to provide the final required calculations though. We cannot rush them until they are done.

Take note that given that this project has been going on for over a year now, I am obviously frustrated due to that nobody who picked it up has ever actually followed through to finish it yet, but there isn't much that I can do about it.

 

[LordAizenSama]

The problem I see happening a bit is every time the revisions gets close to being settled someone redoes a calc, creating new problems like power-scaling debates, whether or not this calc should be used over another one, and it clogs and slows down the whole process.

Just from a quick glance at the NarutoVerse pages I don't think it will be very much that will end up changing at all.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that we should keep it simple, and go by Gwynbleiddd's calculations, along with the remaining ones handled by Darkanine.

After that we can create a rule about that we do not accept any further demands of Naruto revisions.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

@Burning Full Fingers

Of course, but we must bear in mind that Naruto Eight Tails liberated himself from this technique only by using his physical power without the need for techniques. In that order, Kurama Yang is much stronger than his Eight-Tails state and was overtaken by Naruto in general terms, not only by his techniques.

Anyway, Naruto Sage Mode enters Country Level on its own merits, since a normal Rasen Shuriken of a Naruto with 7% of the power of the NTCM helped to destroy the Chibaku Tensei (in numbers the minimum that Chibaku Tensei has according to these results is 90 teratons, divided by 3 are 30 teratons, is still in the Country level). Take into consideration that the Rasen Shuriken with Senjutsu that uses Naruto is stronger than a normal Rasen Shuriken that uses in its NTCM and KM states. Naruto Sage Mode is able to use a much larger version of the Senpo: Rasen Shurike so it could destroy a CT like the one in this calculation.

@Antvasima

I would like to urge the staff not to rush to close this issue just because there are different opinions, the issue is given for a deep debate and we are just entering superficially at this time. Equally the different opinions that I have seen go towards the powerscaling of the characters due to this feat, not to deny the feat which must be taken into consideration the correction of the calculation of Gw. So please, I sincerely ask you to let the theme unfold and not simply cut it off without getting anything, I take much time and effort to do this and I understand that it needs to be treated more thoroughly.</p>

 

[Omimi]

dont know about ap but what about Speed i think speed scalable to others

Also why do we separate nagatos tier with chibaku tensei

dont know why but unlike Environmental Destructive Capacity

chibaku tensei created by his chakra

 

[Antvasima]

@Dariel Senju

The problem, as LordAizenSama explained, is that all of the constant interruptions only achieve the purpose of ensuring that no improvements whatsoever will ever be done to the Naruto profiles, year in and year out, and I think that we already have a regulation that forbids them until the revision project is finished.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

I have to add links to a lot of information that I said in this topic, I could not do it yesterday, I just need that to complete it.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, no matter what you do, in this case I do not think that it can be accepted. We need to at least try to keep thinks coherent and organised, or we won't ever get anywhere.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

dont know why but unlike Environmental Destructive Capacity

chibaku tensei created by his chakra

I think the general consensus on CT is that it requires time for the user to gather and focus their energies to use the technique. They can't just spam attacks of such levels normally.

Keep in mind that the Naruto verse's Chakra mechanism is not like the ki mechanisms of the likes of Dragon Ball, Yu Yu Hakusho, or even Bleach's reiatsu mechanism. The power of particular jutsus do not always translate to the normal AP and durability of the user.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

My issue with your first calc on it is you're using someone far in the background to scale something much closer to the camera view. That causes inflated results. That said, if what you say is true, then I don't think Gwyn's calc of it is usable either. Perhaps you can scale off the trees in the foreground?

Seems like Gwyn made revisions to the second and third calcs, those seem good to go. Although I also got 0.61s as a timeframe, so not sure where 0.48s comes from.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

@Antvasima

Perhaps if someone's effort should be taken into consideration before closing a topic lightly, but that is another issue. I'm not saying that this should be accepted lightly, in fact I mention it in the subject, but since it can not be accepted lightly in the same way it should not be rejected lightly.

Anyway, if you don't accept the calculation there must be a coherent reason for it, here are the results and as it is a correction of an accepted calculation should consider updating the information to have the correct.

 

[Antvasima]

We are not able to make any changes to Naruto statistics until after the revision project has been finished. The situation is too incoherent and complicated. We have mentioned this within our rules.

 

[Omimi]

Also why do we separate nagatos tier with chibaku tensei and then not do that for naruto and sasuke who are only rated moon level because of chibaku tensei? I remember Kkapois and a few others wanting that downgraded

this was asked b4 u can look here

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/301727


TheMightyRegulator said this

 

[Dariel_Senju]

Yes I know, for months is what we have been told. Neither is asking that the change be made now while the revision is underway, but no doubt these results modify the revision that is being taken into account now.

Why is the situation incoherent? The most complicated is the powerscaling without a doubt, but the result is clear and the analysis that must be done is who receives or not powerscaling.

 

[Omimi]

My issue with your first calc on it is you're using someone far in the background to scale something much closer to the camera view

cuz there is only 2 mountain full of vegetation and all closer mountain r rocky mountain which cant be use

 

[Antvasima]

I mean that we are not able to take several versions of different calculations into account at the same time. We simply do not have the resources to handle such complicated situations.

 

[Omimi]

but Gwynbleiddd chose wrong mountain (rocky mountain) as Dariel Senju said that vegetation mountain is right 1 if its true then we need to fix this no? @Antvasima.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that you have a point. I am just worried that nothing will get done again, especially given that Meosos does not respond to my messages.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

@Darknine

I understand, closer still there are mountains similar to Nagato's hiding place, I chose that one from the back to be next to the mountain selected by Gw. But you're right, I will redo the final part of calculation based on that, I'll choose one that is closer to the point of view and on the same line of the CT.

The calculation of speed, 0.61 seconds is what it would take Deva to fall, however that is not the time it takes the Rasen Shuriken to cross the crater, it is a much shorter time as I explain it. While Deva was still in free fall, the RS crossed the crater, exploded and Deva was not even close to falling. That is why I get an estimate, because in this situation it is impossible to calculate the exact time it took Rasen Shuriken to cross the crater. The estimate comes based on the time it takes to fall, at least RS took half of the time that Deva would take to fall to the ground to cross the crater. However, that is debatable.

 

[Antvasima]

@Darkanine

I Meosos does not handle the revisions, would you be willing to pick up where he left off? I would really appreciate the help.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I really do not know much about Naruto as a whole, and I have other responsibilities to tend to, so I cannot.

 

[Golden_Void]

I'll finish :^)

 

[Antvasima]

@Darkanine

Okay. No problem. Are you willing to help out Meosos with calculations?

 

[Antvasima]

@Unite My Rice

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

 

[Golden_Void]

Yeah.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks again.

 

[Ryop]

Isn't calc Pain's speed by using the Rasenshuriken's speed is clearly a case of Calc Stacking?

 

[Dariel_Senju]

Nope, since it is the same Rasen Shuriken who is calculated the speed from Nagato dodge that used to calculate the necessary speed to which Nagato had to move to achieve such a feat.

Calc Stacking would be if using that result we calculated the speed to a character that dodged another Rasen Shuriken 100 chapters later, which we can't assure that that RS was moving at the same speed as the one dodged by Nagato.

 

[Ryop]

But you use the calc of X(Rasenshuriken) in order to calc Y(Pain's speed),i dont see why this not calc stacking

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes, that would be calc stacking