Naruto/Boruto Dattebayo Discussion Thread #30

[HST_Master]

The anime isn't canon, so that's not valid.

It doesn't contradict the manga and nothing implies that he fought in an intense battle with Shisui in the manga either

 

[AlexSoloVaAlFuturo]

Well, I have to go now, take care everyone.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Bye.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Actually, is current Ao even still in his prime?

 

[AstralKing7]

Tbh everyone has a different prime in Naruto tbf. Ao was able to move faster than, a Jonin, a special jonin, Boruto and Mitsuki and Sarada before they could react when he took the chakra gloves

 

[AstralKing7]

That justifies Ao being above regular Jonin characters if you guys do downgrade Konohomaru. This means he is still an elite Jonin

 

[HST_Master]

Tbh everyone has a different prime in Naruto tbf. Ao was able to move faster than, a Jonin, a special jonin, Boruto and Mitsuki and Sarada before they could react when he took the chakra gloves

He had already took down Konohamaru with the SNT on his chest and Boruto and co. are Hypersonic

 

[TheFinalOrder]

The anime isn't canon, so that's not valid.

It doesn't contradict the manga and nothing implies that he fought in an intense battle with Shisui in the manga either
It doesn't matter if the anime doesn't contradict the manga, it's non-canon. And the statement in the manga takes precedent.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Actually, is current Ao even still in his prime?

Hard to say. Despite being injured, he's finessing Chunin and special Jounin and Knocking out Jounin proper.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

So if the weaker Pain bodies become MHS for dodging the Rasenshuriken, it'd scale to Konohamaru in reactions and who else? Maybe the jounin that don't scale to MHS+?

 

[Zzsax]

Hard to say. Despite being injured, he's finessing Chunin and special Jounin and Knocking out Jounin proper.


He's finessing special jounin ,he's finessing konohamaru of the sucky sakura clan,random Jounins,really good Genins and some scientist who thinks he's a ninja.FTFY.....You know who is a special Jounin,kashin koji of the Jiraiya clan and Delta-chan

Ao is considerably weaker than his shippuden self,shouldn't that be obvious.

 

[AlexSoloVaAlFuturo]

Back, how you all doing?

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

So if the weaker Pain bodies become MHS for dodging the Rasenshuriken, it'd scale to Konohamaru in reactions and who else? Maybe the jounin that don't scale to MHS+?

The mistake that a lot of Jonin currently have is a huge circular scaling chain that goes as so:

Yes, the Pre-Timeskip Kakashi that scales to Kabuto. The Kabuto that scales to Tsunade. The Tsunade that scales to Orochimaru. The Orochimaru that scales to KN4 Naruto. The KN4 Naruto that scales to Deva Path. The Deva Path that is MHS+ for Massively Hypersonic+ (Could also keep up with Post-Timeskip MHS+ Kakashi and dodge his Raikiri.)

Most Jonin receive a MHS+ for being "comparable to Part 1 Kakashi" which is entirely baseless. Or as I pointed above in this comment several other Jonin are just going through circular scaling with no evidence nor proof of their tier.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I know that. I've mentioned it several times in the past. I'm asking if they could scale to MHS from the weaker Pain bodies reacting to Rasenshuriken, and Konohamaru reacting to one of them.

 

[BlackeJan]

Hey so since we are on speed then we should try calcing Onoki and him speeding towards the meteor

 

[TheFinalOrder]

How many MHS+ feats are there?

• The Kakashi One

• The Pain One

What Other's?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Sasukes Kirin speed.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Onoki keeping up with a meteor from "The Last"

 

[BlackeJan]

Onoki keeping up with a meteor from "The Last"

He also has one from going towards Madara meteor

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I know that. I've mentioned it several times in the past. I'm asking if they could scale to MHS from the weaker Pain bodies reacting to Rasenshuriken, and Konohamaru reacting to one of them.

Hard to say, Konohamaru was a Genin when he fought the Pain and literally outperformed Chunin and a Special Jonin who had fought Pains. I don't think they should scale, it's just a testament of how Konohamaru was better than even some above him in rank.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Yeah, but the speed for that feat hasn't been calced. So I'm not sure how fast that would be.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Sasukes Kirin speed.

Right, Sasuke and Itachi have MHS+ Reaction Speed for reacting to Kirin (Don't bug me about it, it was exhaustively debated and a majority accepted Sasuke scaling to it).

So basically, there are 3 MHS+ Feats AFIK):

• Immortals Arc Kakashi Blocking False Darkness

• Pain's dodging RS (Multiple times)

• Sasuke and Itachi reacting to Kirin

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Onoki.

 

[BlackeJan]

Yeah, but the speed for that feat hasn't been calced. So I'm not sure how fast that would be.

No one calced it? We need to then! Can anyone calc Onoki's speed when he goes towards Madaras meteor?

 

[HST_Master]

@TFO

The statement in the manga is expanded upon and revealed in the anime. To say he straight up fought Shisui is false.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Not sure that'd be anything impressive as I've never seen anyone calculating speed from that feat.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I know that. I've mentioned it several times in the past. I'm asking if they could scale to MHS from the weaker Pain bodies reacting to Rasenshuriken, and Konohamaru reacting to one of them.

Hard to say, Konohamaru was a Genin when he fought the Pain and literally outperformed Chunin and a Special Jonin who had fought Pains. I don't think they should scale, it's just a testament of how Konohamaru was better than even some above him in rank.

They have multiple feats of doing so, they should scale. Konohamaru being a Genin at the time shouldn't detract from this. His feat suggest he is stronger than his age and rank. Kakashi as an example was a Jonin around the same age in rank. So being that young means nothing.

 

[AstralKing7]

Hard to say. Despite being injured, he's finessing Chunin and special Jounin and Knocking out Jounin proper.

He's finessing special jounin ,he's finessing konohamaru of the sucky sakura clan,random Jounins,really good Genins and some scientist who thinks he's a ninja.FTFY.....You know who is a special Jounin,Shojoji of the Jiraiya clan and Delta-chan

Ao is considerably weaker than his shippuden self,shouldn't that be obvious.

This is nothing but pure BS if we wanna be honest bruh ƒÿæƒñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å First of all Katesuke is literally a ninja of the leaf village and a special Jonin which qualifies him to be High Hypersonic. Konohomaru is a full on Jonin. We can talk about him all we want but he wasn't literally finessing Boruto before. Third lmao those genin can barely be considered genin when the chunin level feats and higher

Nothing proves Ao is considerably weaker so stop going off what other people say when you can't even prove how much he was weaken. His feats prove that he actually wasn't

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Who are you talking about, when you say "they"?

 

[AstralKing7]

Imade but I feel like someone else said it as well without proving anything

 

[YungManzi]

As far as tier 7 Jonin go...

I mean...even pre-timeskip genin (Like Choji and Gaara) have tier 7 calcs..The Sound 4 took on two Special Jonin (Who are below even average Jonin in abilities) and had a very tough time.

Special Jonin are just chunin with a single Jonin level skill.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@TFO
The statement in the manga is expanded upon and revealed in the anime. To say he straight up fought Shisui is false.

Just like the Kaguya arc in the anime is a expansion of what what said in the manga. Filler is filler. It's not canon thus invalid

The manga takes priority over assumptions and opinions. Ao fought against Shisui before, unless it is expanded upon in the Itachi Novels (Not the Anime Version of it as it didn't follow the novels), Ao can and should at least be listed as "Possibly Shisui's Level". That is fair.

 

[AstralKing7]

Special Jonin in physical stats should still be lumped together with chunin when it comes to speed and power depending on the character. Elite Jonin are the ones who should be mhs+

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Boy, idek where to start, things are so all over the place...I can't discuss the Boruto stuff without this being resolved.

 

[AstralKing7]

^its really annoying how the scaling for the Jonin and chunin was just questioned when it's been accepted for months

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Err, not really. This is the same series where fans kinda wank Kakuzu because he managed to survive against Hashirama. Literally anything could have happened in that fight.

 

[YungManzi]

@Astral

I agree, I'm giving reasons why even average Jonin should be at least 7-C.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Dunno about Choji, but you certainly should not scale your average jounin to Gaara. At all.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

==Characters That Are Incorrectly Scaling to 7-C==
Samui:

Samui is 7-C for "Given her status as a strong shinobi from Kumogakure, she should at least be comparable to Itta. Fought with Kinkaku and Ginkaku"

Issues With This: Itta is only 8-A, and nothing says Samui should be comparable to Ittan. Kinkaku and Ginkaku also have issues that I will explain next.

Kinkaku and Ginkaku:
Kinkaku and Ginkaku are 7-C for "Could keep up with Samui and Darui alongside his brother. Should at least be comparable to Itta."

Issues With This: This is circular scaling from Samui, that's literally not allowed nor justifiable. The comparison to Ittan as well is terrible when nothing says they are comparable, and even then Ittan is 8-A. Darui also has issues that I will explain next.

Darui:
Darui is 7-C for "An elite jonin from Kumogakure that also serves as Raikage's right hand, as such he should be at least comparable to Asuma, fought with Kinkaku and Ginkaku."

Issues With This: Again with the circular scaling. Darui is 7-C cause of Kinkaku and Ginkaku who are 7-C cause of Darui, literally no sense. Asuma is actually 7-C for legitamate reasons, but nothing scales Darui to Asuma besides apparenty say so. There is no justification for this.

Ao:
Ao is 7-C for "As an elite Jonin from Kirigakure that has been picked to bodyguard the Mizukage he should be comparable to Jonin like Darui."

Issues With This: This is scaling through titles of Jonin with no actual scaling between the two that justifies this. Darui already has issues with being 7-C which makes it even worse.

Ao's Boruto Era Key is also 7-C for "Easily defeated Konohamaru."

Issues With This: Konohamaru doesn't have justifiable reason for even being 7-C that I will explain next.

Konohamaru:
Konohamaru is 7-C for "Presumably stronger than before, is also now a Jonin and should easily be comparable to characters like Part 1 Kakashi Hatake."

Issues With This: This is again, scaling with titles of Jonin. Part 1 Kakashi was a Jonin with solid reasonings for being 7-C, there is nothing saying that Konohamaru is on par with Part 1 Kakashi. This is literally a baseless assumption with no scaling nor statement between the two to justify this tiering.

Snip
That's all I can find in my short time, I haven't touched MHS+ scaling, but if it's just like this then it's just as unjustifiable and needs to be rectified.

Just quoting this to make it more recent. It's relevant and easier than having to continuously scroll up.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

It's Giant Choji, by the way.