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Naruto AP High 6-C Character Revision Thread
- Thread starter NoodIes67
- Start date
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Kep's retort before was that it would be remise to not notice how the Bijuu went from fun nuclear weapons anyone could catch to super powerful beings barely anyone except the top of the shinobi world could match as the Shinobi World War progressed.
Because otherwise, we end up with funny business like Deidara knocking out Isobu with a few C1 bombs, the same Isobu that is fighting Gyuki without issue.
Or Kurama taking a Sage Chakra Enhanced Rasenshurinken to the face and could keep going while Kakuzu got offed by the normal, unenhanced one. Not to mention that would put Kakuzu way below Pain's Shinra Tensei, who could easily dissipate the sage enhanced Rasenshurinken but couldn't do anything to stop the 6 tails Naruto, who shouldn't be stronger than Matatabi.
Because otherwise, we end up with funny business like Deidara knocking out Isobu with a few C1 bombs, the same Isobu that is fighting Gyuki without issue.
Or Kurama taking a Sage Chakra Enhanced Rasenshurinken to the face and could keep going while Kakuzu got offed by the normal, unenhanced one. Not to mention that would put Kakuzu way below Pain's Shinra Tensei, who could easily dissipate the sage enhanced Rasenshurinken but couldn't do anything to stop the 6 tails Naruto, who shouldn't be stronger than Matatabi.
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Very irrelevent points beng brought up here.A huge derail.Kcm naruto got slapped by the bijuu yet the akatsui are capable of taking out the bijuu when they were alive.I don't know why sasuke or naruto saling would be relevant at at all.If they have feats on that level it's fine.It's fine if they aren't that powerful.We are not trying to get naruto and sasuke higher.Once again you ignored the scan I posted where they said after mastering the bijuu bombs they can shoot them ut at rapi speeds and even to make one you need that ratio everytime.Even if it is bigger you would need to quantifiy how much stronger it would be.
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I am not sure you even know how discussions work here if you wanna scale characters that were clearly beat by characters not on that tier. Or rather than just beat, they were damaged.
It breaks all common sense and scaling just to affect a few and leave anyone else that scales to them unaffected. Or are you REALLY gonna tell me an upgrade that affects even A somehow doesn't spill over to the other Kage, who spill over to the likes of Naruto and Sasuke for obvious reasons and even Sakura because of Tsunade.
And that's your big slip up, trying to ignore everyone elsr affected by such an updrage because then the scaling is pure nonsense.
It breaks all common sense and scaling just to affect a few and leave anyone else that scales to them unaffected. Or are you REALLY gonna tell me an upgrade that affects even A somehow doesn't spill over to the other Kage, who spill over to the likes of Naruto and Sasuke for obvious reasons and even Sakura because of Tsunade.
And that's your big slip up, trying to ignore everyone elsr affected by such an updrage because then the scaling is pure nonsense.
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- Thread starter
- #245
Obviously there will be other characters affected by the upgrade, You are not discussing those characters though, what you are discussing is whether the biju are 6C, instead of doing that why don't you actually try and bring up contradictions and anti-feats because so far you've fallen flat and haven't prove anything or won a single point.
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Sakura being biju level in the war arc is fine, as she scales above Tsunade, both characters have no anti feats, MS sasuke should also scale to the biju and he also has no anti feats, kcm 2 naruto is literally a perfect jinchuriki of the 9 tails so he should also obviously be biju level. The raikage has been beaten by nobody that is biju level and no one scales to him in ap besides maybe Killer B. Gaara has 5 different ways to scale him to biju level and Rasa scales to him. Sasori has no anti-feats and has the third kazekage puppet which is stated to be stronger than both Rasa and Gaara. Deidera literally one-shot a biju. Kakuzu took a direct attack from the 2 tails and likely beat it as well. Kisame is stated to have jinchuriki level power and was beaten by 7th gate guy, niether having anti-feats. These are the characters that I can think of that would be affected by this upgrade so I'd actually like to see come counter arguments rather than this massive detail about whether the biju are 6C.
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Ugh... Another Naruto thread I am losing literally all interest on.
Little advice, actually read what people are saying instead of "that was debunked" and "that has nothing to do with this" everything you see.
Because at this point, I just pointed out the glaring scaling issues of the upgrade that is the pretty blatant thing we would need to disregard for this upgrade to make sense.
The Bijuu had a change in power level during the war, that's it. This is pretty much just another "Gamabunta can fight Shukaku" situation.
Little advice, actually read what people are saying instead of "that was debunked" and "that has nothing to do with this" everything you see.
Because at this point, I just pointed out the glaring scaling issues of the upgrade that is the pretty blatant thing we would need to disregard for this upgrade to make sense.
The Bijuu had a change in power level during the war, that's it. This is pretty much just another "Gamabunta can fight Shukaku" situation.
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> MS sasuke should also scale to the biju and he also has no anti feats
Sasuke is no stronger than Itachi was, and Itachi was forced into activating Susano'o to defend himself from a 7-A attack.
> kcm 2 naruto is literally a perfect jinchuriki of the 9 tails so he should also obviously be biju level.
KCM2 Naruto has feats of harming the Juubi which is High 6-A. You're not just arguing for him to be Biju Level, but to be on the level of the strongest Tailed Beast.
> Sasori has no anti-feats and has the third kazekage puppet which is stated to be stronger than both Rasa and Gaara.
Beginning of Shippuden Sakura could beat Sasori with Chiyo's help.
> Kakuzu took a direct attack from the 2 tails and likely beat it as well.
Seeing a lot of speculation here.
Sasuke is no stronger than Itachi was, and Itachi was forced into activating Susano'o to defend himself from a 7-A attack.
> kcm 2 naruto is literally a perfect jinchuriki of the 9 tails so he should also obviously be biju level.
KCM2 Naruto has feats of harming the Juubi which is High 6-A. You're not just arguing for him to be Biju Level, but to be on the level of the strongest Tailed Beast.
> Sasori has no anti-feats and has the third kazekage puppet which is stated to be stronger than both Rasa and Gaara.
Beginning of Shippuden Sakura could beat Sasori with Chiyo's help.
> Kakuzu took a direct attack from the 2 tails and likely beat it as well.
Seeing a lot of speculation here.
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>Sasuke is no stronger than Itachi was, and Itachi was forced into activating Susano'o to defend himself from a 7-A attack.
dont care about scaling but u should know that it was weekend itachi (bz statement )
> KCM2 Naruto has feats of harming the Juubi which is High 6-A. You're not just arguing for him to be Biju Level, but to be on the level of the strongest Tailed Beast.
with Durability Negation
>Beginning of Shippuden Sakura could beat Sasori with Chiyo's help.
more likeChiyo beat Sasori. sakura was nothing but Chiyo puppet for 90% of the battle
dont care about scaling but u should know that it was weekend itachi (bz statement )
> KCM2 Naruto has feats of harming the Juubi which is High 6-A. You're not just arguing for him to be Biju Level, but to be on the level of the strongest Tailed Beast.
with Durability Negation
>Beginning of Shippuden Sakura could beat Sasori with Chiyo's help.
more likeChiyo beat Sasori. sakura was nothing but Chiyo puppet for 90% of the battle
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Chiyo controlled a puppet which is stronger than herself
Damage was talking about Naruto ripping off one of the Juubis tails btw not the FRS
Damage was talking about Naruto ripping off one of the Juubis tails btw not the FRS
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Just gonna swoop in to say this
>Sakura being biju level in the war arc is fine, as she scales above Tsunade, both characters have no anti feats
This is wrong, the only reason why one can compare Sakura to Tsunade is cause of Hashi's statement, which is illogical as Hashi died before Tobirama and Tobirama died before Hiruzen even got his squad where the sannin were 7 years old iirc although im not completely certain on the exact age, either way they were no older than Naruto and co which would make them 12-13, so either he is talking about an extremely young Tsunade, or he has no idea what he is talking about.
>Sakura being biju level in the war arc is fine, as she scales above Tsunade, both characters have no anti feats
This is wrong, the only reason why one can compare Sakura to Tsunade is cause of Hashi's statement, which is illogical as Hashi died before Tobirama and Tobirama died before Hiruzen even got his squad where the sannin were 7 years old iirc although im not completely certain on the exact age, either way they were no older than Naruto and co which would make them 12-13, so either he is talking about an extremely young Tsunade, or he has no idea what he is talking about.
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Honestly at this point, the more I read this the more the Shinobi nations sound like a bunch if idiots. Akatsuki can fight the Bijuu, Chiyo's puppets can fight the Bijuu, everyone half worth their salt that isn't fodder to an Akatsuki are comparable to the Bijuu even if a bit weaker.
Who needs Bijuu with all of these people?
Who needs Bijuu with all of these people?
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I think we should evaluate threads like this character by character instead of dropping a list of characters and reasons why they should be that tier. Nobody is paying attention.
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I actually don't think that's allowed because it would be too much work and threads getting made b idk maybe
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Meh, if it wasn't obvious, I remain not sold on this at all.
Especially when I realize this kind of proposal is the sort of stuff that would get you nearly High 6-C BoS Sakura.
Especially when I realize this kind of proposal is the sort of stuff that would get you nearly High 6-C BoS Sakura.
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Actually 6C Sakura is going to become consistent for her adult self whenever we can get the 6C revision for the jins back started but first all of this new stuff gotta get finished first
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By BoS I mean beginning of series. As in, the Sakura that fights Sasori, unless we have any reasoning why Sasori would be weaker than Deidara or any of the others.
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Ohh mybad lmao I for some reason only saw BS. Yeah BOs 6C Sakura is absolutely a no
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Kakuzu being High 6-C sounds to me like a big inconsistency and to me, an absolute no.
That sounds like a little absurd to me.
That sounds like a little absurd to me.
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- Thread starter
- #261
I'm now going to respond to the supposed "debunks" of these characters scaling to the biju.
I've already shown why sakura's AP does not scale to sasori, so unless you actually have an argument as to why she does, you cannot claim she does.
Now for starters, the entire akatsuki is not being upgraded to 6C as some of them are already placed at biju level in tier or simply fo not have any feats of being biju level, such as Hidan. Not everyone the akatsuki fights scale to them. For example sasori vs Sakura and chiyo. Niether chiyo or Sakura scale to sasori's ap And niether of them are capable of tanking his attacks. Another example is base naruto and kakuzu. Kakuzu literally blitzed naruto and would've killed him had it not been for the intervention of Yamato and Kakashi. It is directly shown that kakuzu was tricked by naruto's shadow clones as well and was attacked from his backside, where he was off guard. Naruto also never tanks any of kakuzu's attacks, and the only reason he was able to hurt kakuzu was due to the Rasenshuriken bypassing conventional durability as it cuts on a cellular level. The 9 tails tanking this is completely irrelevant as well considering the fact the 9 tails is significantly above every other biju anyway.
The Rasenshuriken does not possess the AP to hurt kakuzu, it just bypasses his durability, so the shinra tensei dissipating it would be irrelevant in the context of kakuzu's durability. And even if you did argue that the shinra tensei is stronger than kakuzu's durability somehow, that would just mean 6 tails naruto is stronger than the normal biju, which would also be uncontested by anti-feats as that is his only feats.
Hashirama witnessed both Tsunade and Sakura fighting during the war, and it was ksihimoto's intention to make Sakura surpass Tsunade or he wouldn't of included the statement. So yes hashirama is still valid here.
No the biju did not randomly get stronger in naruto. Gamabunta was hurt by shukaku, and was only able to hurt a suppressed shukaku and never actually defeated him by conventional means as naruto was required to hurt gaara in order to beat Shukaku.
No chiyo's puppets cannot beat biju as they don't scale to anyone who is biju level, I've already explained why beginning of part 2 Sakura wouldn't scale to sasori so no again, and by scale to sasori I'm obviously referring to his AP with his iron sand and 3rd kazekage puppet his puppets durability is irrelevant as there is no way to scale it to biju level.
The sasuke that fought Sick Itachi was weaker than MS sasuke, and that itachi was holding back and was extremely weakened due to sickness.
Kurama is stronger than all of the other biju therefore the most significant portion of the 10 tails and then you combine this with naruto's power in their kcm 2 form. It would be perfectly reasonable for him to scale to the 10 tails as Kurama alone is the most significant portion of the 10 tails, excluding the amp that naruto gives him. Once again no anti-feats, this is just a perpetual argument of absurdity, which is dishonest and fallacious.
There is no speculation that kakuzu tanked that attack from the 2 tails, and I've already explained why it is likely for kakuzu to be the one to hurt the 2 tails but I've thought of a new argument as well. If his earthstyle is capable of withstanding the force of a biju he should logically be able to output that much force as well, this is basically a reversal of the counterforce of an attack which allows that person's durability to scale to their AP as well. The fact that kakuzu can manipulate his earthstyle to be durable enough to tank attacks from the 2 tails, he should have that same ability to convert that energy into an attack as well. This is supported by the fact that everyone of kakuzu's abilities are AP based and the akatsuki chose members capable of dealing with biju, so the akatsuki wouldn't of hired him if his AP wasn't capable of damaging him. This is consistent with the data book statement about the akatsuki being stronger than the biju. These are multiple reasons as to why kakuzu likely has the AP to hurt a biju.
No the discussion of whether the biju are 6C is irrelevant because this thread's focus is not upon the true AP of the biju but rather the scaling of the characters to the biju.
You keep saying that this upgrade would break the scaling because of how many people scale to the kage and the akatsuki, but so far every character that has been brought up either doesn't scale to these characters or do scale to these characters and should also be upgraded, you cannot say that the downfall of my arguments is that's I am ignoring the exterior characters affected by the upgrade, if I have addressed every character affected by the upgrade lol.
In actuality there aren't that many characters that scale to the ones listed anyway, so yes the biju would still be high in the verse.
Now go ahead and continue trying to find counter arguments, I'll gladly continue.
I've already shown why sakura's AP does not scale to sasori, so unless you actually have an argument as to why she does, you cannot claim she does.
Now for starters, the entire akatsuki is not being upgraded to 6C as some of them are already placed at biju level in tier or simply fo not have any feats of being biju level, such as Hidan. Not everyone the akatsuki fights scale to them. For example sasori vs Sakura and chiyo. Niether chiyo or Sakura scale to sasori's ap And niether of them are capable of tanking his attacks. Another example is base naruto and kakuzu. Kakuzu literally blitzed naruto and would've killed him had it not been for the intervention of Yamato and Kakashi. It is directly shown that kakuzu was tricked by naruto's shadow clones as well and was attacked from his backside, where he was off guard. Naruto also never tanks any of kakuzu's attacks, and the only reason he was able to hurt kakuzu was due to the Rasenshuriken bypassing conventional durability as it cuts on a cellular level. The 9 tails tanking this is completely irrelevant as well considering the fact the 9 tails is significantly above every other biju anyway.
The Rasenshuriken does not possess the AP to hurt kakuzu, it just bypasses his durability, so the shinra tensei dissipating it would be irrelevant in the context of kakuzu's durability. And even if you did argue that the shinra tensei is stronger than kakuzu's durability somehow, that would just mean 6 tails naruto is stronger than the normal biju, which would also be uncontested by anti-feats as that is his only feats.
Hashirama witnessed both Tsunade and Sakura fighting during the war, and it was ksihimoto's intention to make Sakura surpass Tsunade or he wouldn't of included the statement. So yes hashirama is still valid here.
No the biju did not randomly get stronger in naruto. Gamabunta was hurt by shukaku, and was only able to hurt a suppressed shukaku and never actually defeated him by conventional means as naruto was required to hurt gaara in order to beat Shukaku.
No chiyo's puppets cannot beat biju as they don't scale to anyone who is biju level, I've already explained why beginning of part 2 Sakura wouldn't scale to sasori so no again, and by scale to sasori I'm obviously referring to his AP with his iron sand and 3rd kazekage puppet his puppets durability is irrelevant as there is no way to scale it to biju level.
The sasuke that fought Sick Itachi was weaker than MS sasuke, and that itachi was holding back and was extremely weakened due to sickness.
Kurama is stronger than all of the other biju therefore the most significant portion of the 10 tails and then you combine this with naruto's power in their kcm 2 form. It would be perfectly reasonable for him to scale to the 10 tails as Kurama alone is the most significant portion of the 10 tails, excluding the amp that naruto gives him. Once again no anti-feats, this is just a perpetual argument of absurdity, which is dishonest and fallacious.
There is no speculation that kakuzu tanked that attack from the 2 tails, and I've already explained why it is likely for kakuzu to be the one to hurt the 2 tails but I've thought of a new argument as well. If his earthstyle is capable of withstanding the force of a biju he should logically be able to output that much force as well, this is basically a reversal of the counterforce of an attack which allows that person's durability to scale to their AP as well. The fact that kakuzu can manipulate his earthstyle to be durable enough to tank attacks from the 2 tails, he should have that same ability to convert that energy into an attack as well. This is supported by the fact that everyone of kakuzu's abilities are AP based and the akatsuki chose members capable of dealing with biju, so the akatsuki wouldn't of hired him if his AP wasn't capable of damaging him. This is consistent with the data book statement about the akatsuki being stronger than the biju. These are multiple reasons as to why kakuzu likely has the AP to hurt a biju.
No the discussion of whether the biju are 6C is irrelevant because this thread's focus is not upon the true AP of the biju but rather the scaling of the characters to the biju.
You keep saying that this upgrade would break the scaling because of how many people scale to the kage and the akatsuki, but so far every character that has been brought up either doesn't scale to these characters or do scale to these characters and should also be upgraded, you cannot say that the downfall of my arguments is that's I am ignoring the exterior characters affected by the upgrade, if I have addressed every character affected by the upgrade lol.
In actuality there aren't that many characters that scale to the ones listed anyway, so yes the biju would still be high in the verse.
Now go ahead and continue trying to find counter arguments, I'll gladly continue.
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To quote Damage3245, we should wait with any Naruto revisions until all of the accepted relevant calculations have been organised so the calc group members can evaluate which of them that are most reliable to use:
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/310763
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/310763
Damage3245 said:
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