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My Hero Academia: Star and Stripe Calc Issue

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Damage3245 said:
I think you're not exactly seeing why I brought up the height issue above the clouds. I will attempt to rephrase it.
Click to expand...
Ok, let me get this straight, Shigaraki and the planes are above this layer of clouds called cirruscumulus, as all planes should only fly at an altitude above this at the very least and they indeed look like that kind of cloud.

Star creates an air giant, the upper torso of this giant is above the cirruscumulus layer, and then hits Shigaraki with a punch coming from below the clouds, sending him an unknown distance above the layer, which Shigaraki was already above from the beginning, probably several hundred meters above layer.

So what's wrong with the clap being that high?
 
CloverDragon03 said:
The crux of that argument is that the black dot is Shigaraki, to which I am saying that it isn't due to the fact that Shigaraki is further down than this.

It's not that it's inconsistent, it's that the black dot isn't Shigaraki to begin with
Click to expand...
Clover, whether you think the black dot is Shigaraki or not, what do you think the white line is on the panel is supposed to indicate if not the clap itself - especially considering it lines up with the angle Star and Stripe's hands?
 
Damage3245 said:
Clover, whether you think the black dot is Shigaraki or not, what do you think the white line is on the panel is supposed to indicate if not the clap itself - especially considering it lines up with the angle Star and Stripe's hands?
Click to expand...
I took a look again since I was confused and well... Star's giant avatar punches Shigaraki really far before doing the clap. Who's to say that she didn't launch him up there? In fact, this seems supported given she hit him with an uppercut
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I took a look again since I was confused and well... Star's giant avatar punches Shigaraki really far before doing the clap. Who's to say that she didn't launch him up there? In fact, this seems supported given she hit him with an uppercut
Click to expand...
I'll get to that bit in a second.

But can we at least agree that line marks where the clap takes place?
 
My stance is still that Shigaraki was sent that high up, so while the calcs are mathematically correct, I still prefer the High 6-C version
 
So from what I’ve gathered, the main argument is just about how high the clouds are from sea level, based on the cloud layer?

Damage is arguing that Shigaraki was “clapped” less than 1 km above sea level, while Therefir and Clover are arguing it was several kilometers higher.

Is that the gist of it?
 
CloverDragon03 said:
My stance is still that Shigaraki was sent that high up, so while the calcs are mathematically correct, I still prefer the High 6-C version
Click to expand...
I agree. With the direction the punch is going and the clouds that are following her punch, Shigaraki would've been sent upward.

Star is constantly moving as she's on the jets, which means her giant moves with her. So she'd be able to follow Shigaraki as she punched him upward.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
So from what I’ve gathered, the main argument is just about how high the clouds are from sea level, based on the cloud layer?

Damage is arguing that Shigaraki was “clapped” less than 1 km above sea level, while Therefir and Clover are arguing it was several kilometers higher.

Is that the gist of it?
Click to expand...
Not less than a kilometer above sea level.

But far below the figure you'd get from the 100 km dispersion.

Therefir said:
@Damage3245 Using your idea of getting Shigaraki's location above the cloud layer, I made a new version with two different ends:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Therefir/Fist Bump To The Earth (Low-End)

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com

Therefir/Fist Bump To The Earth (High-End)

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

However, keep in mind this is only assuming Shigaraki wasn't send that high up.
Click to expand...
I'll address the calcs themselves soon, but I'll make a response post first detailing why I think the Tomura wasn't punched that far up.
 
So to clarify why I don't think it is possible for Shigaraki to have been knocked that high, we need to examine how Star and Stripe punched Shigaraki.

From the look of her punch, she didn't actually give Shigaraki and the Nomu an uppercut, she swung her arm around in an arc from behind her body and the reason her fist appears higher than the two of them after the impact is just because her punch continued following through the motion.

Here we can see the starting position of her fist then where her fist ended up:

ShIKWEs.jpg


Here we can see see Shigaraki and the Nomu below where her fist ended up, and we can see the impact effects behind the pair of them, looking mostly horizontal. I added in an arrow to indicate though there is some spread, the majority of it is not vertical.

fmWyhHl.jpg


Then on the next page where we see Shigaraki and the Nomu being flung backwards by the impact, we can see that the speed lines are all mostly horizontal, indicating that they are in fact being flung back mostly horizontally and not being punched straight up in the air. They were hit head-on by the punch; not punched from below.

Ttfy9uo.jpg



So, their initial starting position we accept as being some 464.10 meters above the cloud layer which in turn is a couple of kilometers above sea level due to the thickness of the clouds and the height of the clouds above the sea. So judging from the angle at which they were hit, it is extremely unlikely that they were sent vertically 20 km from their starting position. The shallowness of the incline means that they'd have to be sent horizontally about 50 or 60 km away in order to reach that height. Considering that Star and Stripe immediately followed the punch with a clap before either Shigaraki or the Nomu could recover, this just isn't feasible.


We also know it's unlikely that Star and Stripe's avatar moved far between these moments as we are directly shown that her avatar is standing waist-deep in the cloud level as she delivered the punch and she is standing waist deep in the cloud level after the clap when she performs her laser combination move. There is a consistency in her positioning; no indication at all that the avatar moved up 20 km.

Even more damning is that Shigaraki and the Nomu are shown to be level with her avatar (and the cloudline) when she performs the laser attack, meaning if she had clapped them at 20 km above this level, she would have have to wait for 63 seconds for the two of them fall from the point where she performed the clap attack. No matter how you slice it did not take 63 seconds for the events of these two pages to take place and for Shigaraki and the Nomu to be completely incapacited from the clap for a minute seems at odds with their shown regeneration speed too.



Since we have no accurate way of measuring how far vertically Shigaraki was punched upwards (if he was punched upwards at all by her attack), I think that this modified version of the calc is more reasonable to use. A dispersion radius of 10 km a lot, but it's a lot more reasonable than 50 km which isn't supported by any of the other panels or the depiction of events in the manga.
 
Left an evaluation on it. Will wait to see input from other calc group members.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I'll respond to this later. Gonna go see a friend today
Click to expand...
Thanks, no rush.

TheRustyOne said:
Mathematically it seems fine to me as well.

But my opinion on which calc to use hasn't changed, even after reading the above. However I'll leave the real discussion/debate to people more suited for it than me.
Click to expand...
No worries. Keeping my fingers crossed that more discussion may help sway you.
 
I've made a huge mistake creating a controversial thread while also having this one to respond to.

Alright, sorry for the wait, here's my response.
Damage3245 said:
So to clarify why I don't think it is possible for Shigaraki to have been knocked that high, we need to examine how Star and Stripe punched Shigaraki.

From the look of her punch, she didn't actually give Shigaraki and the Nomu an uppercut, she swung her arm around in an arc from behind her body and the reason her fist appears higher than the two of them after the impact is just because her punch continued following through the motion.

Here we can see the starting position of her fist then where her fist ended up:

ShIKWEs.jpg


Here we can see see Shigaraki and the Nomu below where her fist ended up, and we can see the impact effects behind the pair of them, looking mostly horizontal. I added in an arrow to indicate though there is some spread, the majority of it is not vertical.

fmWyhHl.jpg
Click to expand...
I don't think the arrow you're using here is entirely accurate. There is very much a vertical component, as shown by the movement of the clouds that were caught in the punch. It's a lot more like it's diagonal than anything.
Damage3245 said:
Then on the next page where we see Shigaraki and the Nomu being flung backwards by the impact, we can see that the speed lines are all mostly horizontal, indicating that they are in fact being flung back mostly horizontally and not being punched straight up in the air. They were hit head-on by the punch; not punched from below.

Ttfy9uo.jpg



So, their initial starting position we accept as being some 464.10 meters above the cloud layer which in turn is a couple of kilometers above sea level due to the thickness of the clouds and the height of the clouds above the sea. So judging from the angle at which they were hit, it is extremely unlikely that they were sent vertically 20 km from their starting position. The shallowness of the incline means that they'd have to be sent horizontally about 50 or 60 km away in order to reach that height. Considering that Star and Stripe immediately followed the punch with a clap before either Shigaraki or the Nomu could recover, this just isn't feasible.
Click to expand...
Given that Star can attack at speeds of tens of thousands of meters per second, given our current ratings, this is actually rather feasible. It would at most take a few seconds between the punch and the clap, which would be the amount of time Star would need to go upwards given the rapid succession of the two moves. Further showing this is the complete lack of clouds behind Shigaraki despite the need for the "camera" (the panel) to be facing diagonally downwards after Star's clap to show Shigaraki the way it does, and the fact that the aircraft Star is on actually moves downwards, indicating it went upwards before. Keep in mind, the aircrafts can actually keep up with Star and Shigaraki, so again, this is very feasible.
Damage3245 said:
Even more damning is that Shigaraki and the Nomu are shown to be level with her avatar (and the cloudline) when she performs the laser attack, meaning if she had clapped them at 20 km above this level, she would have have to wait for 63 seconds for the two of them fall from the point where she performed the clap attack. No matter how you slice it did not take 63 seconds for the events of these two pages to take place and for Shigaraki and the Nomu to be completely incapacited from the clap for a minute seems at odds with their shown regeneration speed too.



Since we have no accurate way of measuring how far vertically Shigaraki was punched upwards (if he was punched upwards at all by her attack), I think that this modified version of the calc is more reasonable to use. A dispersion radius of 10 km a lot, but it's a lot more reasonable than 50 km which isn't supported by any of the other panels or the depiction of events in the manga.
Click to expand...
The shockwave of the clap was diagonal, meaning it is very feasible for Shigaraki to be launched downward by the force of the attack. Yes, I mentioned how there were zero clouds behind Shigaraki even when the "camera:" was facing downward, but both things can be true at once given the height he would've been at when he was hit by the attack. Essentially, the punch happens -> he gets sent upwards -> the clap happens -> he gets sent downward -> big boi lasers commence.

Again, I should note this is very feasible given the aircrafts themselves can keep up with Star and Shigaraki.

As such, I believe the current High 6-C calc is fine to use. Sorry this took so long. Note to self: Do not start a controversial thread while simultaneously responding to another controversial thread.
 
Dalesean027 said:
So what's the verdict here
Click to expand...
Sorry, been taking a break from the forum to catch up on some things IRL, but will return to this thread at the weekend.

Progress so far has been that Therefir has produced a few more alternate ends to calculating the feat, but there's going to be some more debate between CloverDragon and myself, so hopefully we can get that done at the weekend then we can call for more input / evaluations.
 
I'll be making my post later today, thank you for being patient.

EDIT: I'm sorry; feeling shattered and sick tonight, and nowhere near in the right headspace for a length debate so I have to defer this to tomorrow.
 
Last edited:
@CloverDragon03 Before I go into a big detailed post, can I check do you think that the other ends of the calc have no chance of being correct, or do you just think the High 6-C end of the calc has the most supporting evidence for it?
 
I'm seriously annoyed now and I've deleted all non -CGM posts directly above.

Non-CGM, please leave this thread alone and absolutely no one bump it. Nothing is more frustrating than impatient users who are harrying staff members that have their own lives.

Things like my own medical issues, work, a family member having cancer, etc will all take priority.
 
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