My Hero Academia: Star and Stripe Calc Issue

[Damage3245]

The purpose of this thread is to examine the method used in this calc for Star and Stripe's feat in Chapter 331 of My Hero Academia, and verify it for any potential inconsistencies ahead of it being proposed in a CRT, so we can get discussions on the suitability of the calc cleared before discussions on scaling.

The Feat

In chapter 331, Star and Stripe creates an avatar of herself made of solidied air which mimics her motions.

She then claps her hands together, with the avatar doing the same and creating an enormous impact, squishing Shigaraki between her hands and creating a shockwave that pushes aside the surrounding clouds below him, creating a hole.

So the calc would be to just find the kinetic energy of the moving clouds.


The Calc

In order to figure out the volume of dispersed cloud, the calc currently assumes a height of 1 km for the pixelscaled distance between the clouds and the sea level, and then uses that to scale the diameter of the hole in the clouds which is found to be 71.6 km across.

Since the movement of the clouds happened extremely quickly, one second is used for the timeframe.

And we get the result of 139.35 Gigatons (Large Island level) which isn't unusual as it is a huge volume of cloud moving very quickly.

In a vacuum this calc is okay at first glance if we're looking at just this panel with no other frame of reference... but I believe that to be a mistake. We have reason to believe that the volume of displaced cloud is nowhere near that big.


The Issue

Just two pages after that double-page spread above, we get a look at how Star and Stripe's avatar appears standing in the center of the hole in the clouds. While we obviously cannot see the full extent of the hole in the clouds here, we can see both the clouds in front of the avatar and behind. If the avatar (which is 1930 meters tall) were as far away as 35.8 km from the POV of the panel (AKA, the radius of the hole in the clouds), it would be drawn much further away than it is.

In the subsequent page where we see the avatar launching an attack to drive Tomura into the ocean, we can see the ring of clouds in the sky again again. If each side of the hole in the clouds was 71.6 km apart from each other, we should not be able to see the clouds even be visible from this perspective.

Lastly at the beginning of the next chapter we get the clearest look at the hole and something we can directly compare it to which is the pillar of lasers wielded by Star and Stripe's avatar. (And we know how big that pillar is by comparing it to the avatar which we have a canonical height for).


So that's three consistent shots of the hole in the clouds being much, much smaller than the scaled 71.6 km. And I do not think there's any merit to an assumption that the clouds just rushed back into place of their own accord with no outside force being applied to make them form a smaller perfectly circular ring. That doesn't make any sense. If the clouds had somehow rushed back into place then the hole would have closed entirely, not just been smaller.

I think there's a simple explanation for why the figure for the width of the hole in the clouds would be so big and that's because the initial artwork of the hole being formed is drawn inconsistently. It looks visually striking and impressive, but there is no proper scale being applied here, no other reference objects we can look to to double-check the validity of it. The distance between the clouds and the surface of the sea is drawn too close together. Cloud calcs rely on assumptions like the thickness of the cloud and the height of the cloud, so an assumed value like 1 km can lead to a much larger scaled figure than probably what it should be.

If this is just a case of inconsistent artwork (and I don't blame Horikoshi because which manga artist isn't inconsistent at times?) then in my point of view the best course of action is to ignore the outlier of the visuals here which would be the first panel showing the hole's formation. There are three shots following that first panel which show the hole is not as large as what has been scaled, and the next chapter's image is the clearest image of the hole after its formation and also the most recent. The most recent depiction / information ought to be what takes priority on top of it lining up with the other visuals.


So my proposal is that the High 6-C calc not be used due to the inconsistent visual being used as the basis for the calc. I understand it's a nice visual and gives and impressive result but if by its nature it is based on something substantially inconsistent then it is not reliable.

 

[Damage3245]

Hope you don't mind if I ping you guys to get some traction going here.

@CloverDragon03 @Therefir @TheRustyOne @Dalesean027 @M3X_2.0

 

[Dalesean027]

I don't mind I'll look in a sec

 

[Dalesean027]

Have you tried scaling it in the way you think is consistent already in a blog and showed the results?

I'd like to see for myself if so just because

 

[Maitreya12]

After reading through Damage’s reasoning and arguments I find myself in agreement with the notion.

One of the biggest issues in sizes too is the comparisons made between each figure.

For example, stars and stripes air avatar is just shy of 2 kilometers tall. The huge lasers she forms appears to be just a bit over half her Avatar’s size.

However, according to the calc, we assume that just the width of the clouds is 1.3 kilometers big or as big as the laser itself. Which we can clearly see is not the case here.

If the only image that the calc is using to derive the 70+ km length of the cloud dispersion is one that is inconsistent with all other images of the cloud dispersion due to the presence of figures showcasing their relative sizes in comparison to the feat, then I believe the first image used in the scan should probably need to be revised in some way or another.

 

[Phantom_Falcon]

Have you tried scaling it in the way you think is consistent already in a blog and showed the results?

I'd like to see for myself if so just because

You could try scaling the laser width from Stars in this image and then compare that to the clouds in this image

Oh, and I’m in agreement with the notion the calc should be fixed

 

[Dalesean027]

I'm playing overwatch bros with my gf bros

I'll have to do that later if i calc it

 

[Damage3245]

I'll put up an alternative scaling when I can so you don't have do Dalesean027.

 

[Maitreya12]

I'm playing overwatch bros with my gf bros

I'll have to do that later if i calc it

Tf you doing on vs wiki then. Get outta here and interact with actual, real life human beings ya filthy hethen

 

[Dalesean027]

Tf you doing on vs wiki then. Get outta here and interact with actual, real life human beings ya filthy hethen

I said I'll take a look and I wasn't gonna do it 10 hours later after saying that

But yeah it should be fixed

 

[Dalesean027]

I'll put up an alternative scaling when I can so you don't have do Dalesean027.

Okay given some time I can also try my own hand at the measurements and such since I'll be doing calcs later


But yeah I'll be back here later lol

 

[KingTempest]

Bro is this part of her hand?????

 

[Damage3245]

Bro is this part of her hand?????

What do you mean exactly?

 

[KingTempest]

Are these the ends of her fingertips?

Cause if she's 2km tall... and that part is part of her body which would be so much smaller than 2km, then wouldn't that contradict the size?

 

[Maitreya12]

Are these the ends of her fingertips?

Cause if she's 2km tall... and that part is part of her body which would be so much smaller than 2km, then wouldn't that contradict the size?

That’s Star’s physical body. They’re just using it as a visual representation for her air avatar.

Her air avatar is what’s 2km tall.

 

[KingTempest]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh

nevermind, didn't look at the picture in the OP

 

[CloverDragon03]

Alright, time to throw my hat into the ring. And for starters, I'll get my stance out of the way: I disagree with the OP.

Now for my elaboration. Essentially, it comes down to the fact that the scans Damage has presented don't accurately convey his point. Let's begin.

Just two pages after that double-page spread above, we get a look at how Star and Stripe's avatar appears standing in the center of the hole in the clouds. While we obviously cannot see the full extent of the hole in the clouds here, we can see both the clouds in front of the avatar and behind. If the avatar (which is 1930 meters tall) were as far away as 35.8 km from the POV of the panel (AKA, the radius of the hole in the clouds), it would be drawn much further away than it is.

We hardly see much of the split here. And this is just a case of needing to fit everything that's intended to be placed there into a smaller panel. You can even see this with how Star is depicted next to her own avatar. If it was drawn further away, it wouldn't convey everything meant to be conveyed properly.

In general, using humans for this sort of thing is unreliable due to the aforementioned need to fit everything into a panel.

In the subsequent page where we see the avatar launching an attack to drive Tomura into the ocean, we can see the ring of clouds in the sky again again. If each side of the hole in the clouds was 71.6 km apart from each other, we should not be able to see the clouds even be visible from this perspective.

Her avatar is like... much closer to the PoV than the furthest end of the cloud though. So this isn't exactly the case. And again, everything needs to be fitted into the panel.

Lastly at the beginning of the next chapter we get the clearest look at the hole and something we can directly compare it to which is the pillar of lasers wielded by Star and Stripe's avatar. (And we know how big that pillar is by comparing it to the avatar which we have a canonical height for).

This (along with the other 2 scans) are like... well into the fight. Clouds move anywhere from 30-250 mph. Running some quick calcs tells me that with even a minute passing, the clouds have already moved like several kilometers on each side. So, there's always the possibility that this is after some time of them receding back into place. And again I must bring up the dreaded art-size issue of manga.

And I know I've repeated this a bunch, but I cannot stress enough just how important it is to actually consider that and consider what is intended to be portrayed, which leads me to my final point.

If this is just a case of inconsistent artwork (and I don't blame Horikoshi because which manga artist isn't inconsistent at times?) then in my point of view the best course of action is to ignore the outlier of the visuals here which would be the first panel showing the hole's formation. There are three shots following that first panel which show the hole is not as large as what has been scaled, and the next chapter's image is the clearest image of the hole after its formation and also the most recent. The most recent depiction / information ought to be what takes priority on top of it lining up with the other visuals.

The most important portrayal of this hole has to be when it first forms, as that is the direct result of Star's attack. Hence why Horikoshi drew a far off shot to show the effect of it. To ignore that in favor of shots where one thing or another (Star, Shigaraki, the pillar, etc.) are the focus rather than the result of the attack is something I cannot in good conscience get behind. Horikoshi cannot draw such far off shots all the time, as he needs to depict the fight first and foremost. As such, using this to blatantly ignore a direct feat gets a hard no from me.

A line needs to be drawn when it comes to just straight-up ignoring feats.

 

[Dalesean027]

Alright, time to throw my hat into the ring. And for starters, I'll get my stance out of the way: I disagree with the OP.

Now for my elaboration. Essentially, it comes down to the fact that the scans Damage has presented don't accurately convey his point. Let's begin.

We hardly see much of the split here. And this is just a case of needing to fit everything that's intended to be placed there into a smaller panel. You can even see this with how Star is depicted next to her own avatar. If it was drawn further away, it wouldn't convey everything meant to be conveyed properly.

In general, using humans for this sort of thing is unreliable due to the aforementioned need to fit everything into a panel.

Her avatar is like... much closer to the PoV than the furthest end of the cloud though. So this isn't exactly the case. And again, everything needs to be fitted into the panel.

This (along with the other 2 scans) are like... well into the fight. Clouds move anywhere from 30-250 mph. Running some quick calcs tells me that with even a minute passing, the clouds have already moved like several kilometers on each side. So, there's always the possibility that this is after some time of them receding back into place. And again I must bring up the dreaded art-size issue of manga.

And I know I've repeated this a bunch, but I cannot stress enough just how important it is to actually consider that and consider what is intended to be portrayed, which leads me to my final point.

The most important portrayal of this hole has to be when it first forms, as that is the direct result of Star's attack. Hence why Horikoshi drew a far off shot to show the effect of it. To ignore that in favor of shots where one thing or another (Star, Shigaraki, the pillar, etc.) are the focus rather than the result of the attack is something I cannot in good conscience get behind. Horikoshi cannot draw such far off shots all the time, as he needs to depict the fight first and foremost. As such, using this to blatantly ignore a direct feat gets a hard no from me.

A line needs to be drawn when it comes to just straight-up ignoring feats.

This

 

[Damage3245]

We hardly see much of the split here. And this is just a case of needing to fit everything that's intended to be placed there into a smaller panel. You can even see this with how Star is depicted next to her own avatar. If it was drawn further away, it wouldn't convey everything meant to be conveyed properly.

In general, using humans for this sort of thing is unreliable due to the aforementioned need to fit everything into a panel.

Her avatar is like... much closer to the PoV than the furthest end of the cloud though. So this isn't exactly the case. And again, everything needs to be fitted into the panel.

You say "Everything needs to fit into the panel". I don't see why this would be the case. Horikoshi can choose to exclude the clouds from the panel if he wished for the size of the hole to be incredibly gigantic. The manga doesn't require he draw the clouds there.

This (along with the other 2 scans) are like... well into the fight. Clouds move anywhere from 30-250 mph. Running some quick calcs tells me that with even a minute passing, the clouds have already moved like several kilometers on each side. So, there's always the possibility that this is after some time of them receding back into place. And again I must bring up the dreaded art-size issue of manga.

And I know I've repeated this a bunch, but I cannot stress enough just how important it is to actually consider that and consider what is intended to be portrayed, which leads me to my final point.

No, it's not well into the fight. There is no indication that this panel takes place anything more than a minute after the clap took place.

And there is no reason for the clouds to be moving inwards at high speed and then come to a sudden stop...

The dreaded art-size issues of manga is precisely why I made this thread.

The most important portrayal of this hole has to be when it first forms, as that is the direct result of Star's attack. Hence why Horikoshi drew a far off shot to show the effect of it. To ignore that in favor of shots where one thing or another (Star, Shigaraki, the pillar, etc.) are the focus rather than the result of the attack is something I cannot in good conscience get behind. Horikoshi cannot draw such far off shots all the time, as he needs to depict the fight first and foremost. As such, using this to blatantly ignore a direct feat gets a hard no from me.

A line needs to be drawn when it comes to just straight-up ignoring feats.

I don't think it being first makes it the most important. Consistency is more important than that and we should not just ignore every other portrayal of the hole for the sake of accepting the most inconsistent (and conveniently most powerful) depiction of it.

You're saying "We should draw a line when it comes to igoring feats", when your stance here requires that you ignore three other more consistent shots of the result of the feat. That's a bad line in my point of view.

 

[Dalesean027]

I don't think it being first makes it the most important. Consistency is more important than that and we should not just ignore every other portrayal of the hole for the sake of accepting the most inconsistent (and conveniently most powerful) depiction of it.

You're saying "We should draw a line when it comes to igoring feats", when your stance here requires that you ignore three other more consistent shots of the result of the feat. That's a bad line in my point of view.

Not to be that guy but wouldn't the much more detailed big spread that took more time be more consistent than smaller panels at different angles trying to capture what was presented as a gigantic feat.

Like the notion that the big spread itself that's narratively the big showcase of what the feat is less valid than the smaller spreads that can only tackle some parts of the feat in tighter angles and boxes doesn't sit well with me

 

[CloverDragon03]

You say "Everything needs to fit into the panel". I don't see why this would be the case. Horikoshi can choose to exclude the clouds from the panel if he wished for the size of the hole to be incredibly gigantic. The manga doesn't require he draw the clouds there.

Uh, why not? Having the clouds suddenly gone would just be confusing. And the fact that they're there means he deemed it necessary.

No, it's not well into the fight. There is no indication that this panel takes place anything more than a minute after the clap took place.

I'm not sure it's implied one way or another but fair enough

And there is no reason for the clouds to be moving inwards at high speed and then come to a sudden stop...

The dreaded art-size issues of manga is precisely why I made this thread.

If you acknowledge this as a dreaded issue, indicating that it's pretty much inevitable, then there's no reason to try and use that as something against the feat's legitimacy.

Also why would the clouds need to stop to begin with? They could still be moving, but obviously since manga panels are static images, we wouldn't see that.

I don't think it being first makes it the most important. Consistency is more important than that and we should not just ignore every other portrayal of the hole for the sake of accepting the most inconsistent (and conveniently most powerful) depiction of it.

The moment the feat happens is in fact the most important instance of the feat. It's the most unaffected by any potential outside factors that neither you nor I could even begin to mention. That's part of why feats are calced from earliest moment we get a good shot.

You're saying "We should draw a line when it comes to igoring feats", when your stance here requires that you ignore three other more consistent shots of the result of the feat. That's a bad line in my point of view.

"More consistent"

Each of those shots is riddled with their own problems. I'm using the depiction of the feat as it happens, when Horikoshi himself is focused on depicting the feat rather than something else. The only thing the other three shots are consistent in is their lack of reliability due to not being focused on in the slightest.

 

[Damage3245]

Uh, why not? Having the clouds suddenly gone would just be confusing. And the fact that they're there means he deemed it necessary.

Which means he could have deemed that the hole was not meant to be taken as 76 kilometers across. Especially given that the founding figure of that scaling is an assumption used by us.

Not denying it may be a reasonable assumption, but it's not a fact.

If you acknowledge this as a dreaded issue, indicating that it's pretty much inevitable, then there's no reason to try and use that as something against the feat's legitimacy.

Why not? You're using the same reasoning to dismiss the other visuals. It's not right not to apply the same level of criticism against the first visual.

The moment the feat happens is in fact the most important instance of the feat. It's the most unaffected by any potential outside factors that neither you nor I could even begin to mention. That's part of why feats are calced from earliest moment we get a good shot.

And in a vaccuum, that's fine, if we have nothing else that could contradict that. But that's not the case. The other visuals aren't deemed unimportant just because they were given to us afterwards. If the first visual we get of a feat making it look like a building exploded, but then a few pages later we saw that just the top half of the building was destroyed, we wouldn't rely on the first visual alone and assume the entire building was destroyed.

Other visuals are relevant as they provide additional context. Focusing specifically on just the first one creates a biased narrative as it leads to excluding other evidence.

"More consistent"

Each of those shots is riddled with their own problems. I'm using the depiction of the feat as it happens, when Horikoshi himself is focused on depicting the feat rather than something else. The only thing the other three shots are consistent in is their lack of reliability due to not being focused on in the slightest.

I don't think they are riddled with problems other than the inherent imperfection inside every drawn piecde of art. There is no reason to assume that Horikoshi was not focused on this anymore than he was on the double-page spread.

Not to be that guy but wouldn't the much more detailed big spread that took more time be more consistent than smaller panels at different angles trying to capture what was presented as a gigantic feat.

Like the notion that the big spread itself that's narratively the big showcase of what the feat is less valid than the smaller spreads that can only tackle some parts of the feat in tighter angles and boxes doesn't sit well with me

That's not what the meaning of consistency is. And I never said the big showcase panel was less valid. I'm looking at all of the pieces of evidence for this.

 

[Damage3245]

However, according to the calc, we assume that just the width of the clouds is 1.3 kilometers big or as big as the laser itself. Which we can clearly see is not the case here.

This is another good point that I hadn't even thought to include in the OP.

The assumed depth of the clouds is directly contradicted by the visuals of the manga. An assumption for generic cloud size is less reliable that finding a specific size from the manga itself.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Which means he could have deemed that the hole was not meant to be taken as 76 kilometers across. Especially given that the founding figure of that scaling is an assumption used by us.

Not denying it may be a reasonable assumption, but it's not a fact.

There's not really a need to emphasize the specific number, the general idea is that the distance from the clouds to the ground is much less than the diameter of the split.

My points have been hard facts (Horikoshi deeming the clouds necessary in the image is a hard fact, as their presence in the panel proves), compared to the "could have" conjecture you're using here. Nowhere near solid enough.

Why not? You're using the same reasoning to dismiss the other visuals. It's not right not to apply the same level of criticism against the first visual.

Not really. You're trying to use that same criticism used against panels that don't focus on the split itself, except on a panel that's meant to depict the feat itself and that alone. It's really not in the same ballpark.

And in a vaccuum, that's fine, if we have nothing else that could contradict that. But that's not the case. The other visuals aren't deemed unimportant just because they were given to us afterwards. If the first visual we get of a feat making it look like a building exploded, but then a few pages later we saw that just the top half of the building was destroyed, we wouldn't rely on the first visual alone and assume the entire building was destroyed.

This is a false equivalence, as the destruction of a building is different than, say, size differences resulting from cluttering a bunch of things together.

Also I have no idea how a mangaka would manage such a building scenario to begin with, there's inevitable art inconsistencies, but that is something else entirely

I don't think they are riddled with problems other than the inherent imperfection inside every drawn piecde of art. There is no reason to assume that Horikoshi was not focused on this anymore than he was on the double-page spread.

I do have a very good reason actually. The focus was on the missiles approaching, not the cloud split. That's why it's in the background.

That's not what the meaning of consistency is. And I never said the big showcase panel was less valid. I'm looking at all of the pieces of evidence for this.

My issue here is that you're trying to put panels where the cloud split is a mere background element as being in the same weight as one where it's actually the focus. That should not be the case. If it's a mere background element, it should be taken as less reliable, as it is evidently not the crux of the panel.

Sure, you can say the other three panels are consistent, but there's such a thing as being consistently wrong.

 

[Damage3245]

There's not really a need to emphasize the specific number, the general idea is that the distance from the clouds to the ground is much less than the diameter of the split.

My points have been hard facts (Horikoshi deeming the clouds necessary in the image is a hard fact, as their presence in the panel proves), compared to the "could have" conjecture you're using here. Nowhere near solid enough.

Horikoshi deems the clouds being so necessary that he went out of his way to draw them there and include them... but he didn't care at all how big they were so he drew them random sizes? I don't buy that contradiction.

I do have a very good reason actually. The focus was on the missiles approaching, not the cloud split. That's why it's in the background.

So this panel is more important because the cloud is drawn in the foreground?

My issue here is that you're trying to put panels where the cloud split is a mere background element as being in the same weight as one where it's actually the focus. That should not be the case. If it's a mere background element, it should be taken as less reliable, as it is evidently not the crux of the panel.

Sure, you can say the other three panels are consistent, but there's such a thing as being consistently wrong.

I don't accept that them being a "background element" means we can't judge their size and factor into it into the feat. We don't get to decide which parts of Horikoshi's panels are more or less important than others, and assume that he put special care and attention into some elements and completely overlooked others.

The same criticism can be applied to the initial cloud split. The apparent distance between the base of the cloud and the sea is a background element even if it is at the center of the panel. If you're assuming Horikoshi didn't care about the clouds in the subsequent pages for that reasoning then the entire first visual is unreliable because the foreground element is Star and Stripes's hands and the background element is the clouds.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Horikoshi deems the clouds being so necessary that he went out of his way to draw them there and include them... but he didn't care at all how big they were so he drew them random sizes? I don't buy that contradiction.

I'm just saying he deemed them necessary enough to include. Please don't put words in my mouth. The point is that he needed to fit multiple things into a very thin panel

So this panel is more important because the cloud is drawn in the foreground?

You're cherrypicking the "background" part while missing the bigger picture.

Is the focus on the clouds? No, it's on Star's avatar and Keraunos

I don't accept that them being a "background element" means we can't judge their size and factor into it into the feat. We don't get to decide which parts of Horikoshi's panels are more or less important than others, and assume that he put special care and attention into some elements and completely overlooked others.

The importance is on what's being focused on. The things being focused on are what'll be drawn with more detail. That's just manga artist 101, especially for serializing a weekly series.

The same criticism can be applied to the initial cloud split. The apparent distance between the base of the cloud and the sea is a background element even if it is at the center of the panel.

You contradicted yourself here. It’s front and center, yet it’s somehow not important?
“If you're assuming Horikoshi didn't care about the clouds in the subsequent pages for that reasoning then the entire first visual is unreliable because the foreground element is Star and Stripes's hands and the background element is the clouds.
This is just a bad extrapolation of what I'm saying. Star's hands are not in that panel, they're their own thing independent of it to emphasize that she clapped.

Edit: Forum wacked out on me for some reason so this response looks different now

 

[Damage3245]

@CloverDragon03 I'll respond tomorrow. Thanks for responding to the thread so far.

 

[Maitreya12]

Ok so to put my two cents in on the matter: This is kinda like an age old vs battle discussion. I don’t know exactly what to call it so I’m just gonna say it’s “First showing vs consistency” where a feat’s initial showcase looks way grander than subsequent panels showing the aftermath of said feat. One Piece is great at doing this kinda stuff.

I think as with all things done here, it’s a case by case basis thing in order to determine which avenue to go down. I think the initial showing should probably be mostly primarily favored but I can personally find some issues regarding the figures used for the calc like for example the thickness of the cloud in the calc being the size of the laser Star dropped on Shigaraki.

Star’s avatar is nearly 2 km. 1.95 to be exact right. With the laser subsequently being roughly half her size. In absolutely(1) no showing(2) is the thickness of the cloud alone being anywhere near the size of the laser or taking up a massive portion the Star’s avatar’s body. None whatsoever, so that issue probably needs to be fixed.

This goes in tandem with how many visual showings comparing Star’s avatar with the hole itself. the calc asserts the distance between the cloud dispersion to ground to be 1km. Assuming 1km of Star’s body is sticking out from the water, there would only be a 200-300 meter distance between her avatar and the cloud dispersion which we can see a sizable portion of. At best right. She’s not far at all from the cloud because she was directly in the middle of the dispersion. We can even see one end to the other in this scan with Star’s Avatar taking up a sizable portion of the difference in length between each end.

So what I will say is that if Horikoshi did intend for the cloud dispersion feat to be anywhere near 76 kilometers in size, he really shot himself in the foot by consistently putting Stars and Stripes Avatar, which he gave an exact figure in size to no less, as taking up a sizable portion of the cloud. And nowhere is the thickness of said clouds intended to be the near the size of the laser or Star’s Avatar itself.

Just going off the other visual representations for the feat the cloud dispersion would be around 2km in size. I don’t know how that sounds to the CGM if it’s a more reasonable estimate on the distance but that’s just what the distance appears to be based on other visual of the feat.

If I recall correctly as well the battle between Stars and Shigaraki was taking place only 50 km away from Japan itself so the cloud dispersed by Stars and Stripes is over 1.5x that. So that might be another indication that the feat may not be so big.

Those are just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[CloverDragon03]

@CloverDragon03 I'll respond tomorrow. Thanks for responding to the thread so far.

No worries. Goodnight (I'm assuming) to you

 

[Damage3245]

Those are just my thoughts on the matter.

Thank you for contributing.

If nothing else you're absolutely right about the cloud thickness issue. The current thickness of the clouds is based off an assumption and it is directly contradicted by the manga. The calc has to be adjusted to take this into account otherwise it's reliability is completely in question if we're preferring our assumptions to what the manga is directly showing us with canonical size information.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Thank you for contributing.

If nothing else you're absolutely right about the cloud thickness issue. The current thickness of the clouds is based off an assumption and it is directly contradicted by the manga. The calc has to be adjusted to take this into account otherwise it's reliability is completely in question if we're preferring our assumptions to what the manga is directly showing us with canonical size information.

We can either pixel scale if possible or, if not possible, use the average altitude of cumulus clouds (the clouds we currently accept for this calc) accepted on the wiki

 

[CloverDragon03]

If I recall correctly as well the battle between Stars and Shigaraki was taking place only 50 km away from Japan itself so the cloud dispersed by Stars and Stripes is over 1.5x that. So that might be another indication that the feat may not be so big.

I wanna address this most of all because I feel it's the most important.

The diameter is 76 km, about 38 km in front of her and 38 km behind her. That means that the radius in front of her would still be 12 km off from the meeting point, so this isn't really a disqualifier.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

If I recall correctly as well the battle between Stars and Shigaraki was taking place only 50 km away from Japan itself so the cloud dispersed by Stars and Stripes is over 1.5x that. So that might be another indication that the feat may not be so big.

I am not a calc guy or anything, but this is actually incorrect.

The fight takes place 50km away from “a landing point.” Star herself is outside of Japan’s air space.



She has hundreds of kilometers to cross before she actually reaches main land Japan. So there is actually plenty of room for her to create a 76 kilometer dispersion of clouds. The fact Endeavor saw this feat from Mainland Japan kinda makes it more impressive since she hasn’t got past the Air Space line yet.

Unless she’s coming at an incredibly specific and precise angle at the absolute farthest end of Hokkaido.

 

[Therefir]

While I think that using another panel to calculate sky scattering is straight up silly, I can understand the concerns about the thickness of cloud.

My Hero Academia: Fist Bump To The Earth

vsbattles.fandom.com

So I calculated the thickness of the cloud using the laser width, and with that same laser I also measured the distance from the clouds to the ground to measure the dispersion width.

The feat took a massive hit, however, falling down to Mountain level+.

 

[M3X_2.0]

While I think that using another panel to calculate sky scattering is straight up silly, I can understand the concerns about the thickness of cloud.

My Hero Academia: Fist Bump To The Earth

vsbattles.fandom.com

So I calculated the thickness of the cloud using the laser width, and with that same laser I also measured the distance from the clouds to the ground to measure the dispersion width.

The feat took a massive hit, however, falling down to Mountain level+.

I like this calc more. I think we can't scape from the fact that the total diameter of the expansion is more than 100km.

 

[Damage3245]

@Therefir; thank you for being reasonable. The updated scaling there looks like an improvement to me. (I still think that 100 km for the size of the hole in the clouds is weird, but out of the two versions of the calc, that one is better).

 

[SeijiSetto]

While I think that using another panel to calculate sky scattering is straight up silly, I can understand the concerns about the thickness of cloud.

My Hero Academia: Fist Bump To The Earth

vsbattles.fandom.com

So I calculated the thickness of the cloud using the laser width, and with that same laser I also measured the distance from the clouds to the ground to measure the dispersion width.

The feat took a massive hit, however, falling down to Mountain level+.

Wouldn't that make it more consistent? Isn't All Might Large Mountain at his peak? Stars should logically scale a little below that, but still high up there.

 

[Dalesean027]

I've already given my evaluation on it, it works out and is consistent with the other Mountain+ feat but tbf @Damage3245 100km+ hole size is seemingly consistent as of these two calcs

 

[Damage3245]

Wouldn't that make it more consistent? Isn't All Might Large Mountain at his peak? Stars should logically scale a little below that, but still high up there.

We're not discussing scaling here.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Hello just got here. Seems like an entire discussion has already took place. People already seem to mention why the above panel is fine to use so I won't add to it.

But there is a slight issue I want to mention with the calc here.

The clouds in that panel is further in the background compared to the laser, it's a hole in the sky. So that is without a doubt a low ball size, if it was the closer to the laser the cloud thickness would be bigger. Going by the radius, even saying it shrunk by 90%, that still means it's over 5 km away from the laser being used to scale it.

However the real issue I have is that the area is wrong. (pi*54687.40^2) = 9395597964.66 square meters not 4026390808.54 square meters. Calculator Version.

But even when I put Therefir's numbers in, I get a completely different weight (1125106850066.755 kg). Clearly something is wrong here.

Assuming I'm not doing something wrong. The weight would be 2625441029740.82 kg.

1/12*2625441029740.82*54687.40^2 = 654328104546599338294.3 Joules, 156.38 Gigatons of TNT (Large Island level)

Using other weight. 1/12*1125106850066.755*54687.40^2 = 280405853445982872232.2 Joules, 60.01 Gigatons of TNT (Island level+)

Maybe I'm super dumb here, but this doesn't seem right to me. If I'm doing something wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me.