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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

We can always use the excuse that the clouds were dispersed by the shockwave, and that the actual attack is much stronger.

Since the movie feat actually has a time frame and is not based on assumptions, it's far better in terms of calculations and scaling.

If we used 5 seconds instead of 10:

Dispersion Speed = 182600/5 = 36520 m/s

Kinetic Energy = 1/12*136408000000000*36520^2 = 3.62 Teratons

It could go even higher depending on the way it's animated, making the result volatile.
 
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Therefir said:
We can always use the excuse that the clouds were dispersed by the shockwave, and that the actual attack is much stronger.

Since the movie feat actually has a time frame and is not based on assumptions, it's far better in terms of calculations and scaling.

If we used 5 seconds instead of 10:

Dispersion Speed = 182600/5 = 36520 m/s

Kinetic Energy = 1/12*136408000000000*36520^2 = 3.62 Teratons

It could go even higher depending on the way it's animated, making the result volatile.
Click to expand...
Incoming when it ends up being less than 5 seconds and the feat becomes 6-B
 
The attack itself did leave the Nomu in a near death state, however that damage seems similar to what Nine took against Bakugo. The Near High-End's body is completely intact but was burned horribly. Like the heat of the attack was what caused that damage and not the actual impact.

Shigaraki even mentioned before the bombs hit that if Star wanted to kill him she'll need an attack that would vaporize him into nothing. Which is referring to high heat and not the physical power it'd produce. Showing what worried Shigaraki wasn't raw power, but high heat. Heat has always been Shigaraki's biggest "weakness".

And as Therefir said, Low 6-B rating is coming from the shockwave the blast created that blew the clouds away. The actual explosion/force within the fire ball would be stronger. And it's possible when the anime version comes up the results could be higher. Since 5 seconds is also a pretty good timeframe.

There is also the possibility of new feats coming out. Which is another reason why we're waiting before making any CRTs about this.
 
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Therefir said:
We can always use the excuse that the clouds were dispersed by the shockwave, and that the actual attack is much stronger.
Click to expand...
As long as the ICBM is stronger just as the story presents it to be, I'm fine with it being 6-B if every other High 6-C/Low 6-B calculations I've seen are gonna be accepted.
Unless future developments would suggest that the ICBMs were nothing special.
TheRustyOne said:
The attack itself did leave the Nomu in a near death state, however that damage seems similar to what Nine took against Bakugo. The Near High-End's body is completely intact but was burned horribly. Like the heat of the attack was what caused that damage and not the actual impact.

Shigaraki even mentioned before the bombs hit that if Star wanted to kill him she'll need an attack that would vaporize him into nothing. Which is referring to high heat and not the physical power it'd produce. Showing what worried Shigaraki wasn't raw power, but high heat.

And as Therefir said, Low 6-B rating is coming from the shockwave the blast created that blew the clouds away. The actual explosion/force within the fire ball would be stronger. And it's possible when the anime version comes up the results could be higher. Since 5 seconds is also a pretty good timeframe.

There is also the possibility of new feats coming out. Which is another reason why we're waiting before making any CRTs about this.

Worse case, they'll scale to Star and Stripe's and Bakugo's High 6-C feat instead.
Click to expand...
Nine's durability doesn't have to be on the same level as the High End Nomus or Shigaraki even if he survived an onslaught from Bakugo and Deku.
The Nomu's body was still "intact", but we can't conclusively confirm that the danger of Tiamat was about the heat of the attack and not the actual impact.
I personally took it as damage from both the impact and the heat, which is natural as it's an explosion.

One potential evidence is indeed the vaporization statement, but that can also be merely an expression of a single way to negate his regeneration quirk. Also, this was stated when Shigaraki was being held back by Keraunos, a massive laser attack, which was burning at Shigaraki's body, so the vaporization statement was being said in relation to Keraunos which isn't sufficient to keep Tomura down permanently.

Furthermore, these doesn't really explain the scaling complaints I mentioned above. Unless they really are just counting on the sheet heat it would produce, which I doubt, though I'm not completely against it if there are more conclusive evidences for it, even if I heavily dislike the notion.
 
I'd like to point out we aren't told the Nomu's condition, for all we know it could've survived that blast just fine if Shigaraki hadn't told it to burst. Nothing stated it was dying even without the explosion. Shigaraki killed it by ordering it to self destruct.

Being damaged by the explosion and not the heat is an assumption on your part as well. If both things are assumptions it's fine to say anything until we get more information. You can't deny the fact the damage could mostly be from raw heat, you have no support. Basically this line of reasoning isn't sufficient to reject anything.

If the 100% attack was massively superior to the missile attack I'd have an issue. But considering the fact they're so close, and the attack failed to kill a Near High-End when hit directly. I highly doubt that attack would've ended the fight. If it was capable of one shotting Shigaraki the Nomu should've just died.

Due to the fact that both attacks are comparable to each other, and the Nomu was burnt the same way Bakugo's explosion did to Nine. Who withstood a direct hit before Bakugo's blast and his body was completely intact. Heat is a massive dura negating weakness for Nine/AFO/Shigaraki which shouldn't just be ignored.

The missile punch is upscaling from the 1.54 Teratons blast, with the Low 6-B calc just supporting that ratings. Especially since we know it would be higher than 1.10 Teratons. As once again the majority of that value is coming from the shockwave the explosion produce. Which means the actual blast would be stronger.

So it scaling above 1.54 Teratons isn't absurd.

And if the anime version comes out with a quicker timeframe than 10 seconds, the calc will be stronger than the 100% attack.

We aren't changing the profiles right this second. We're still waiting, if new stuff comes out in support or rejection of this rating than this entire discussion is pointless.
 
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TheRustyOne said:
I'd like to point out we aren't told the Nomu's condition, for all we know it could've survived that blast just fine if Shigaraki hadn't told it to burst. Nothing stated it was dying even without the explosion. Shigaraki killed it by ordering it to self destruct.
Click to expand...
Shigaraki saying that the attack would've killed anyone but himself, while not a direct and conclusive evidence, may suggest that said attack would indeed kill anyone else. Even if Shigaraki avoided death by digging on the ground, which in of itself is also another circumstantial evidence of the danger of the attack. He called a mistake in that moment a fatal error, after all.

TheRustyOne said:
Being damaged by the explosion and not the heat is an assumption on your part as well.
Click to expand...
When Bakugo hurts someone with his Explosions, our first and foremost assumption is that he did it with the force of his explosions, do we not? So is most, if not all the explosion feats we have seen, calculated, and used for scaling for MHA.
We've only ever cited the temperature of Bakugo's explosions when it's used against someone far more powerful than himself, like All Might.

For most explosion feats, the fact that the explosion's force harmed the target is our most natural conclusion. We'll have to further scrutinize if there is a situation wherein we are assuming that the only factor to a feat that involves Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles is only the temperature.

Of course, Tiamat and Explosion are two different things, I was just making a comparison.

TheRustyOne said:
The missile punch is upscaling from the 1.54 Teratons blast, with the Low 6-B calc just supporting that ratings. Especially since we know it would be higher than 1.10 Teratons. As once again the majority of that value is coming from the shockwave the explosion produce. Which means the actual blast would be stronger.

So it scaling above 1.54 Teratons isn't absurd.
Click to expand...
This would mean that the Nomu wouldn't fully scale to the Cruise Punch, right? Since, if I'm inferring correctly, the anime might change the energy yield of everything except the shockwave (or even the shockwave)?

Also, I take this as confirmation that, if the two Low 6-B calculations are accepted, we're no longer going to use some of the High 6-C calculations and ratings then?

Because they will have no place in the scaling chain with the exception of the low tiers. Having the Near High End scale to Low 6-B means most characters that are currently 7-A would be Low 6-B as well, and scaling them to the Cruise Punch also makes the scaling chains still problematic (ignoring the possible increase in yield in a possible recalc of it).
 
Also I firmly believe the missile is higher than what we currently rate it as. A 5 second rating is acceptable to me. In fact...

Do we really believe the explosion of the missiles lasted for 10 seconds? Since the explosion is still clearly visible by the time the cloud split happens. To be honest you can even argue a 1 second timeframe with this reasoning. And that'd be 90 Teratons for the Intercontinental Punch. Which is 6-B+.

Though that'd be over 50X his durability and should be instant death for the Nomu. Which would mean 6-B Shigaraki via downscaling.

But 5 seconds is likely better for a manga panel. And fictional explosions don't have the follow the standard laws of reality, for obvious reasons.

If the Missile Punch becomes 3.62 Teratons or higher, would you still have any issues?
 
Assuming he was worried about the impact attack despite the fact he clearly stated it was vaporization he was expecting (Heat/Dura Negation), but whatever.
 
TheRustyOne said:
If the Missile Punch becomes 3.62 Teratons or higher, would you still have any issues?
Click to expand...
Under the grounds that Tomura was indeed worried about the impact of the attack, which I believe to be the case, then probably.

Mazdoesstuff said:
Shiggy was also insanely weakened and literally falling apart from the Keraunos later
Click to expand...
That is irrelevant from the fact that Shigaraki is worried about the upcoming attack next to Keraunos, setting aside how he also mentions that Keraunos isn't enough to negate his regeneration either.
 
Keraunos laser didn't do much of anything to him, highly doubt the attack heavily weakened him.

There is nothing to suggest impact was worrying him when he directly states he was expecting to be vaporized into nothing, which is high heat. But regardless I'd like to see a 5 second end anyway, as I think that number is completely valid. And the attack hit the Nomu dead on and didn't vaporize or kill it.

We have no idea how deep the damage goes, but the body was still intact. Shigaraki overestimated the power of that attack. Or it would've vaporized the Nomu into nothing like he was expecting it. Which is why he stole the wing Quirk, he wasn't thinking it would survive that. But hey it did and he took advantage of it.
 
Shigaraki’s fear of the attack is heavily nerfed by the fact that he was expecting an attack that would vaporize him, or as Star put it, “Bust him down to atoms,” yet the Nomu was fully intact and might have been dying but definitely wasn’t dead or destroyed instantly.

Also, yes, Shigaraki was weakened bodily by the lasers, as they are actually capable of severely burning him, to the point we see his skeleton. The Nomu was ALSO being burned by the laser spear.

Hell, the Nomu not only withstood the laser spear with Shigaraki, it even got hit by all the jet lasers AGAIN right before Star punched it with the missiles. So the Nomu was getting taxed hard as hell even before the missiles hit it, and it still survived with practically its whole body intact. So forgive me if I place heavy doubt on Shigaraki saying the Attack would kill him when it didn’t kill the Nomu after everything it survived.
 
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TheRustyOne said:
Also I firmly believe the missile is higher than what we currently rate it as. A 5 second rating is acceptable to me. In fact...

Do we really believe the explosion of the missiles lasted for 10 seconds? Since the explosion is still clearly visible by the time the cloud split happens. To be honest you can even argue a 1 second timeframe with this reasoning. And that'd be 90 Teratons for the Intercontinental Punch. Which is 6-B+.

Though that'd be over 50X his durability and should be instant death for the Nomu. Which would mean 6-B Shigaraki via downscaling.

But 5 seconds is likely better for a manga panel. And fictional explosions don't have the follow the standard laws of reality, for obvious reasons.

If the Missile Punch becomes 3.62 Teratons or higher, would you still have any issues?
Click to expand...
Is this not the correct option? Explosions even at their Slowest move at over 3700 m/s and this should be the strongest stuff, which moves at over 10000 m/s.
Shigaraki does scale above Nine in terms of physicals so him being Low 6-B and Shigaraki Being 6-B should be fine
also i should go find the heat energy just to check about how much greater the heat of the blast would have been if we actually measured it in Joules
 
Therefir said:
I'm also fine with using a 5 second time frame until the anime arrives and I clear it up.

For now I want to use the Storm Spinning feat as the flag for this revision.
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s probably a good idea.
but the fastest explosives move at 10300 m/s and the explosion only moved 8100 meters in a single direction, you sure you don’t want to use that to help find the speed (this a joke don’t crucify me)
 
Acer__ said:
Yeah that’s probably a good idea.
but the fastest explosives move at 10300 m/s and the explosion only moved 8100 meters in a single direction, you sure you don’t want to use that to help find the speed (this a joke don’t crucify me)
Click to expand...
The 5 seconds timeframe already gives 36520 m/s, using the explosion speed would be a downgrade more than anything.
 
I'm really seeing people just suggesting changing the timeframe of a calc seemingly for higher results. No offense to anyone of course, but this discussion didn't start because someone saw something was wrong with the calc... but rather with the ratings.
 
Therefir said:
The 5 seconds timeframe already gives 36520 m/s, using the explosion speed would be a downgrade more than anything.
Click to expand...
Nah nah
we do 8100/10300 because that’s how fast the explosion moved and the distance it moved.
then we do 182600 / (8100/10300) to get the speed. i already did it myself, it gives us 146 teratons in energy alone
Damage3245 said:
I'm really seeing people just suggesting changing the timeframe of a calc seemingly for higher results. No offense to anyone of course, but this discussion didn't start because someone saw something was wrong with the calc... but rather with the ratings.
Click to expand...
yeah I know, it’s why my suggests are so jokingly being stated, I don’t really care
 
Damage3245 said:
I'm really seeing people just suggesting changing the timeframe of a calc seemingly for higher results. No offense to anyone of course, but this discussion didn't start because someone saw something was wrong with the calc... but rather with the ratings.
Click to expand...
The results are bound to change with the anime adaptation anyway, it's better if we don't rely entirely on that calc.

Small Country level sure looks better than Large Island though.
 
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Therefir said:
The results are bound to change with the anime adaptation anyway, it's better if we don't rely entirely on that calc.

Small Country level sure looks better than Large Island though.
Click to expand...
I mean I can wank Tomura’s explosion at the beginning of the S&S fight to Large Island if you’d like (again a joke)
 
I calced Stain’s movement speed at Subsonic (Mach 0.36). Would it be okay to use it in the calc? Damage said that it’d be better if I actually calculated Stain’s speed rather than assuming he was moving at Superhuman speeds
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
I calced Stain’s movement speed at Subsonic (Mach 0.36). Would it be okay to use it in the calc? Damage said that it’d be better if I actually calculated Stain’s speed rather than assuming he was moving at Superhuman speeds
Click to expand...
Nvm ☠️ Assuming I applied Stain’s speed to the Iida calc, Iida would become Mach 185 or Massively Hypersonic lmao

I’ll probably be sticking to Superhuman speed
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
I calced Stain’s movement speed at Subsonic (Mach 0.36). Would it be okay to use it in the calc? Damage said that it’d be better if I actually calculated Stain’s speed rather than assuming he was moving at Superhuman speeds
Click to expand...
No, it wouldn't be better because it would be calc stacking.
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
I’m confused, what method do you want me to use then?

I made the assumption that Stain is moving at Superhuman speeds because he can keep up and literally LEAP over Iida’s CANONICAL Superhuman attack (which is a movement feat btw) but that’s apparently “hiding calc-stacking”
Click to expand...
Iida has canonical superhuman speed, even at the beginning of the series (crossed 50 meters in 3 seconds). Stain didn’t dodge or duck under Iida’s attack, he literally LEAPED over it. If that isn’t blatantly Superhuman idk what is

If it makes that much of a difference, I’ll use Iida’s exact canon speed (16.7 m/s) in the calc (it’ll still be High Hypersonic)
 
Damage3245 said:
I'm really seeing people just suggesting changing the timeframe of a calc seemingly for higher results. No offense to anyone of course, but this discussion didn't start because someone saw something was wrong with the calc... but rather with the ratings.
Click to expand...
It might be best to wait until the anime adaptation for redoing the feat, since it'll most likely be shorter than 10 seconds.

But you all can do whatever you want. I'm completely alright with 5 seconds personally. But that is it.

Just that a 10 second explosion is really weird, though fiction is fiction.

Class M Chimera is nice.

Not certain if that would scale to Iida and Asui. Asui was able to tie his hands up in his transformed state, and Iida was able to hold down his tail.

But he flung both of them into each other, though they held on for a small amount of time. One could say they're Class M due to Chimera performing that feat in his "base" form and did so very casually with one arm. While he was enraged when Asui and Iida held parts of him down for a few seconds.

I admit that Iida's reasoning is shaky since he knocked his tail down with a kick and held on by laying on it. Iida can't really apply force there, as such Chimera easily lifted him and his tail and slammed him into Asui. While Asui was able to restrain his hands, and only let go cause he slammed her into Iida.

@Therefir Just make sure you don't burn yourself out.
 
Since Iida and Asui managed to slightly restrain Chimera in his most powerful state, when he performed the Class M feat in base, they should scale

Now the question is who scales to them
 
Chimera effortlessly overpowered Dark Shadow, Tailman, Sugarman, Red Riot, Tentacole, Cellophane's Tape, and Shoto's Ice.

Froppy and Ingenium being able to restraint him is an outlier.

Chimera is consistently portrayed to be physically much stronger than the heavy hitters of Class 1-A, that's why he is "At least High 8-C+", even in his base form.
 
Therefir said:
Chimera effortlessly overpowered Dark Shadow, Tailman, Sugarman, Red Riot, Tentacole, Cellophane's Tape, and Shoto's Ice.

Froppy and Ingenium being able to restraint him is an outlier.

Chimera is consistently portrayed to be physically much stronger than the heavy hitters of Class 1-A, that's why he is "At least High 8-C+", even in his base form.
Click to expand...
Iirc there was a calc for Chimera breaking Shoto’s ice that was 8-A, no?

Also I think him setting the forest on fire with his energy beam is a good feat, could be an upgrade
 
He also vaporized Shoto's ice, it should give great results.

But enough calcs for today.
 
I calced Tamaki’s beam at 6-C (22 gigatons)


Barrier height: 247 m or 24 px

Beam length: 1348 px or 13873 m

Beam width: 6 px or 61.74 m
Beam volume: 9330000000 m^3

Plasma has a value of 10^10 joules per m^3

Total: 9.33e+19 J

Could be way higher since the beam goes off screen. Feat is kinda useless since we have Low 6-B top tiers but at least we have another Tier 6 feat to help with consistency
 
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