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MUI Goku vs Broly.
- Thread starter XSOULOFCINDERX
- Start date
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No. Ultra instinct sigh is not stronger if it is pointed out that she could easily eliminate goku with a single blast even if she was at full power, goku didn't seem to be suffering energy loss that badly at the time.
Getting him into a position is not above goku's training, and having ui would make the fight a little more in goku's favor, since while Broly is a competent fighter he is still not in the league of goku.
Getting him into a position is not above goku's training, and having ui would make the fight a little more in goku's favor, since while Broly is a competent fighter he is still not in the league of goku.
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The gap here is not as big because they are roughly comparable to each other. as I pointed out. Can't every ki user create forcefeilds?
Actual skill and usage in energy barriers is different than being capable of forming them. Broly's reaction to Gogeta's Danmaku being impossible to escape or dodge, was to form a barrier.
If Broly is unable to escape Goku's Kamehameha, he will block it with a barrier.
Not if he takes him seriously, and because now he knows of the time limit. Goku sees Broly's insane adaptation and will try to take him out.
And how is UI Goku going to 'take him out' in under a minute, particularly when Broly's power and abilities will constantly improve as he fights?
Actual skill and usage in energy barriers is different than being capable of forming them. Broly's reaction to Gogeta's Danmaku being impossible to escape or dodge, was to form a barrier.
If Broly is unable to escape Goku's Kamehameha, he will block it with a barrier.
Not if he takes him seriously, and because now he knows of the time limit. Goku sees Broly's insane adaptation and will try to take him out.
And how is UI Goku going to 'take him out' in under a minute, particularly when Broly's power and abilities will constantly improve as he fights?
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You aren't explaining how Goku is going to KO Broly, or prevent him from adapting.Iisdude1 said:
As I said, Goku's Kamehameha only worked in the ToP due to flight being nulled by the Grand Priest, and Broly is capable of creating barriers in response to attacks hitting him.
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Yes, and as I explained Goku's Kamehameha only worked BECAUSE of the flight null.Iisdude1 said:
- Kefla
- Jiren
In both instances, Goku didn't knock either of them out. Caulifa and Kale were both conscious, and Jiren lost the will to fight but was still conscious.
Even if Goku put Broly in the circumstance that he can't escape the Kamehameha, Broly can resist much of the damage by forming a barrier.
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Broly FRA, MUI runs out sooner or later
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Yes, and as I said. Goku could only achieve those strategies due to flight being nulled.
Goku's ability to pull off a Kamehameha, here, will be harder rather than easier, due to mobility being infinitely increased thanks to flight. The reason this is bad should be obvious, Goku had less to adapt to in the ToP with UI, to pull off his strategies. Meaning he took less time to achieve his results. Here, Goku will take longer due to the expanded possibilities for failure conditions.
In a time attack, Goku having to do more to win, is obviously a pretty big negative. It will take him more time, more effort and more adaptation whereas Broly doesn't have anywhere near the same constraints with time.
You say Goku will just do the 'right thing' and win, but unless you can consider how Goku can do 'the right thing' it means nothing.
Broly can adapt his skills and power drastically fast, so the power and skill gap are nowhere near as important as expected, his endurance is particularly high and he has the abilities and characterisation to enhance his defences.
Overall, the argument being made by the opposition is simply 'Goku will just find a way to finish Broly in under a minute with his Kamehameha' when there is zero basis for claiming he can even do this.
He barely achieved that against Kefla, and his time limit nearly ran out against Jiren when they fought and in both instances, they would have never been defeated if flight wasn't being nullified. Both of these instances I refer to, took place for a single minute in-universe.
Seeing as Goku barely manages to pull off a Kamehameha finish, within a minute, in-universe...when his opponents have less evasive options, why would I think he can put Broly into the same situation when flight is enabled, and Broly's abilities are constantly growing?
The fight already starts out difficult, and simply becomes more difficult as time wears on.
Goku's ability to pull off a Kamehameha, here, will be harder rather than easier, due to mobility being infinitely increased thanks to flight. The reason this is bad should be obvious, Goku had less to adapt to in the ToP with UI, to pull off his strategies. Meaning he took less time to achieve his results. Here, Goku will take longer due to the expanded possibilities for failure conditions.
In a time attack, Goku having to do more to win, is obviously a pretty big negative. It will take him more time, more effort and more adaptation whereas Broly doesn't have anywhere near the same constraints with time.
You say Goku will just do the 'right thing' and win, but unless you can consider how Goku can do 'the right thing' it means nothing.
Broly can adapt his skills and power drastically fast, so the power and skill gap are nowhere near as important as expected, his endurance is particularly high and he has the abilities and characterisation to enhance his defences.
Overall, the argument being made by the opposition is simply 'Goku will just find a way to finish Broly in under a minute with his Kamehameha' when there is zero basis for claiming he can even do this.
He barely achieved that against Kefla, and his time limit nearly ran out against Jiren when they fought and in both instances, they would have never been defeated if flight wasn't being nullified. Both of these instances I refer to, took place for a single minute in-universe.
Seeing as Goku barely manages to pull off a Kamehameha finish, within a minute, in-universe...when his opponents have less evasive options, why would I think he can put Broly into the same situation when flight is enabled, and Broly's abilities are constantly growing?
The fight already starts out difficult, and simply becomes more difficult as time wears on.
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I didn't say it would be easy to defeat Broly. it would be easier for goku to do something his previous form did, he doesn't have to be in the same position as when he was fighting Kefla. Besides he has more experience with it now so the mobility thing shouldn't be a problem. Once goku sees how Broly fights and notices him adapting way faster, he will look for openings.
I was pointing out skill because goku should be able to figure out that Broly can adapt very fast, he's fought with a similar being before (goku black) even if his is a little less in comparison.
I was pointing out skill because goku should be able to figure out that Broly can adapt very fast, he's fought with a similar being before (goku black) even if his is a little less in comparison.
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Do we have a vote count at this point?
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And Black curbstomped Goku every single time. In fact, why would we even assume Goku would kill Broly? It's IC for Goku to make that the absolute last option, and we know Goku can consciously control himself in UI based on his interactions with Jiren.
If anything, Goku would end up making similar mistakes that he did with Black and Jiren.
If anything, Goku would end up making similar mistakes that he did with Black and Jiren.
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Broly was able to create a barrier to deflect SSJ Gogeta. He couldn't deflect a thing SSB Gogeta threw at him. Also MUI in character would go for a point blank range Kamehameha. Which Broly would have no time to dodge. It all comes down to whether Broly's durability is high enough to endure it or not
Gilad_Hyperstar
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And Black curbstomped Goku every single time. In fact, why would we even assume Goku would kill Broly? It's IC for Goku to make that the absolute last option, and we know Goku can consciously control himself in UI based on his interactions with Jiren.
If anything, Goku would end up making similar mistakes that he did with Black and Jiren.
Goku is willing to kill via SBA
If anything, Goku would end up making similar mistakes that he did with Black and Jiren.
Goku is willing to kill via SBA
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Willing to kill doesn't mean he is going to kill as his first action. It's IC for Goku to make it his last action.
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That was Super Saiyan Broly against Super Saiyan Gogeta, they were comparable in strength whereas Gogeta Blue is much stronger than FPSS Broly.JackJoyce said:
Seriously, this isn't a bloodlusted match. It's nowhere near in-character for Goku to go for a lethal Kamehameha as his first action, even with Ultra Instinct and the arguments for UI Goku being that much stronger than FPSS Broly are, more or less, up to subjective opinion due to how vague the films and anime have been about UI Goku, LB Jiren, Beerus and Broly.
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Goku has literally witnessed Black adapt to his opponent multiple times. If he can't react to Black, how is he meant to deal with Broly, who has a vastly superior 'adaptation'?
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,215
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Maybe because he already have the experience with Black, as well as fighting Broly before in his base and ikari formsCryoTheMayo said:
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it took then a while to figure out black was adapting to them, and goku never got a super huge power boost, he just got really mad and beat on black for a little bit before he got stronger, he even hesitated to finish black. Here he has a much more calm mind and the instinctive reaction will help to keep from constantly having to exchange blows against Broly.
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I would hope all of you are joking. Black's adaptation is based on learning to use Goku's body and melding it with his experiences as Zamasu. Broly's adaptation is him literally learning to evolve his fighting style, techniques and power as he fights.
Vegeta even states Broly learned as he fought, with us clearly seeing Broly learning advanced techniques (like Goku's God Bind) by seeing them once. Not to mention Broly going from somewhere above High 5-A to 3-A to Low 2-C to 50% 2-C in a matter of an hour or two of fighting.
If Goku and Vegeta can't properly adapt to Broly's adaptation, even with Goku's 'experience' with Black, why would UI Goku be capable of dealing with it?
Again, the only win condition for Broly here is for him to last 60 seconds and the only arguments I have seen for Goku, thus far, is that Goku will magically pull off an instant KO Kamehameha because he fought Black and Ultra Instinct is a insta-win button, apparently. I haven't even seen anyone argue how this Kamehameha would have the AP to defeat Broly, or even the part where it's horribly OOC for Goku to go for a kill over a knockout.
Overall, comparing Black to Broly is absurd, Goku canonically takes a minute with Ultra Instinct to pull off a Kamehameha finisher and Goku would never try to kill Broly as his first action. Realistically speaking, if Goku tried to Kamehameha Broly, he will be gunning for a KO which fails due to Broly's endurance, comparable AP and barriers.
Vegeta even states Broly learned as he fought, with us clearly seeing Broly learning advanced techniques (like Goku's God Bind) by seeing them once. Not to mention Broly going from somewhere above High 5-A to 3-A to Low 2-C to 50% 2-C in a matter of an hour or two of fighting.
If Goku and Vegeta can't properly adapt to Broly's adaptation, even with Goku's 'experience' with Black, why would UI Goku be capable of dealing with it?
Again, the only win condition for Broly here is for him to last 60 seconds and the only arguments I have seen for Goku, thus far, is that Goku will magically pull off an instant KO Kamehameha because he fought Black and Ultra Instinct is a insta-win button, apparently. I haven't even seen anyone argue how this Kamehameha would have the AP to defeat Broly, or even the part where it's horribly OOC for Goku to go for a kill over a knockout.
Overall, comparing Black to Broly is absurd, Goku canonically takes a minute with Ultra Instinct to pull off a Kamehameha finisher and Goku would never try to kill Broly as his first action. Realistically speaking, if Goku tried to Kamehameha Broly, he will be gunning for a KO which fails due to Broly's endurance, comparable AP and barriers.
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,215
- 4,236
If so, maybe bloodlust them both if Goku has no win condition? Since Broly in this form is bloodlusted by default and the way you put it, he seems to have no actual way to win even if he'll use his instant Kamehameha (which I see no reason why he can't KO Broly at the very least given that Goku have the AP advantage)
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MUI Goku lasted a minute after being beat within an inch of his life several times for multiple hours.
A fresh Goku with his own adaptation stomps Broly worse than Gogeta did. Jiren was stated to be likely stronger than Beerus while he was still holding back against Goku in their first fight.
A fresh Goku with his own adaptation stomps Broly worse than Gogeta did. Jiren was stated to be likely stronger than Beerus while he was still holding back against Goku in their first fight.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Well yeah, he used SSJBKK×20 and UIO multiple times during the the tournament. And all of those techniques drain his staminaCallsign Castle said:
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Big Bruh moment. Blue Goku surpassed that level of suppressed Jiren. Whis was talking about Jiren's full power because he's only perhaps stronger than Belmod.Callsign Castle said:
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multiple hours
No, it was less than 48 minutes, and Goku didn't get seriously pressured or injured until Jiren defeated him, with 25 minutes left on the clock.
Goku didn't have any serious fights until nearly half of the tournament was already over, was given energy by Frieza, recovered as he fought against Caulifa and Kale (don't ask how that works), recovered more as he fought Jiren (again, don't ask me how that works. It's stated in-universe.) and was given energy by Vegeta to fight Jiren.
Even if you argued Goku's top form would last longer with the godly drawback (which you have no basis for) we wouldn't even know how long it would last, and Broly's own endurance has vastly more impressive statements and feats.
No, it was less than 48 minutes, and Goku didn't get seriously pressured or injured until Jiren defeated him, with 25 minutes left on the clock.
Goku didn't have any serious fights until nearly half of the tournament was already over, was given energy by Frieza, recovered as he fought against Caulifa and Kale (don't ask how that works), recovered more as he fought Jiren (again, don't ask me how that works. It's stated in-universe.) and was given energy by Vegeta to fight Jiren.
Even if you argued Goku's top form would last longer with the godly drawback (which you have no basis for) we wouldn't even know how long it would last, and Broly's own endurance has vastly more impressive statements and feats.
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I am pretty sure Gogeta was just punishing a bit he could have easily 1 shot Broly if he really wanted to end the fight in secs
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exactly
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I have no idea what MUI Goku has to adapt here? Broly's fighting style or his danmaku? Those are joke to him. Are you suggesting he'll learn Ultra Instinct by seeing it once XD
Any form of AP advantage he has. The bulk of the argument people are making is that Goku wins by instantly doing a Kamehameha that can kill Broly, or at least knock him out for an entire hour, but this becomes far harder with Broly's ability to increase his power drastically against stronger opponents.
Any form of AP advantage he has. The bulk of the argument people are making is that Goku wins by instantly doing a Kamehameha that can kill Broly, or at least knock him out for an entire hour, but this becomes far harder with Broly's ability to increase his power drastically against stronger opponents.
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Something I wanted to bring up was Broly was actually adapting to Gogeta. His initial LSSJ transformation was only > SSJ Gogeta. This is evident because as shown with Kale, SSJ < LSSJ < SSJ2. It would also make sense for Gogeta to go blue because he doesn't want to make the same mistake of letting Broly catch up. So Gogeta went SSB so he could continually output more power against an adaptive Broly.
Also when Broly powers up (after star dust breaker) that's when Gogeta decides to charge up a Kamehameha while using a "hint of his true power". So LSSJ Broly went from above SSJ level to almost SSB level in mere minutes, which is insane.
Anyway this is likely gonna be closed because of the Broly v Jiren and UI v Broly bans.
Also when Broly powers up (after star dust breaker) that's when Gogeta decides to charge up a Kamehameha while using a "hint of his true power". So LSSJ Broly went from above SSJ level to almost SSB level in mere minutes, which is insane.
Anyway this is likely gonna be closed because of the Broly v Jiren and UI v Broly bans.
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when did they got bans
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bump
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I just want to know why do y'all keep mentioning Broly adaptation only.. as if UIO and UI doesn't do the same thing as stated by Whis & company in episode 110 & 131. Just putting this here.
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It's because Broly has better adaptive feats? Did you not consider that?
