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Mr. G&W Revisions again

Jinsye

Jinsye

She/Her
10,463
1,587
The old thread is old. Remaking this + adding some new stuff

Game & Watch
Fire Manipulation and Breath Attack: The Dragons in the LoZ games have this. The natives from Fire Attack also have fire manip via their torches.

Explosion Manipulation: The dudes from Mario's Bombs Away and Dynamite Jack have this. There's also Safebuster iirc

Martial Arts: The boxers from Boxing.

All abilities of The Triforce: Link G&W wields it.

Universe level Mr. Game & Watch
This is due to the fact that the Triforce is 3-A. G&W is a composite of all Game & Watch characters, so Mr. Game & Watch should be 3-A as well as Link.
 
Edwardtruong2006 said:
This is due to the fact that the Triforce is 3-A. G&W is a composite of all Game & Watch characters, so Mr. Game & Watch should be 3-A as well as Link.
Click to expand...
Excuse me, but why is the G&W Link even scaled to regular link to begin with?
 
Because G&W Link is still an ambigiously canon Link. It's just that this time it's on a console that's made to play LCD games. So it doesnt fall into the rules of a crossover character.
 
Where does the G&W Link fall under at any point in the LoZ timeline, then?

It could be very well that it's just seperate from the main canon of the games. "Ambigiously canon" just makes the rating seem even more off.
 
LOZ G&W should just be a G&W game and scale from its own feats, and scale nothing from the TLOZ series.

He will still have a couple of abilities added as the Triforce in that game is bound to have RW as that's the Triforce's main thing along other stuff from the game, but we shouldn't scale it from the Zelda verse.

At least, this is my opinion on the matter.
 
Either way, it either scales from Zelda and doesn't scale to G&W, or G&W scales from the game, but the latter doesn't scale to Zelda verse.
 
Zelda timeline confuses me send help.

However even if, G&W Link would just be on the outsides of the timeline. G&W still treats LOZ as a regular Zelda game. I'm not sure why the triforce wouldn't still be the same thing because that's been consistent across the series.

Also we do the same scaling for Hyrule Warriors so what makes that different?

Abd I don't see why Mr. Game & Watch shpuldnt scale to Link. G&W is a composite G&W character after all and Link is one.
 
This is what happens when fans ask too loudly for something that was never meant to exist

Because the Triforce is 3-A from feats in TLOZ verse, so we cannot assume it's 3-A in the G&W series.

Hyrule Warriors explicitly confirms that all that happened in the main games happened in HW, too.

Because you're crosscaling between two different verses via a crossover. Which you cannot do for out crossover rules.
 
I agree that Mr. Game & Watch shouldn't scale from canon Link. It doesn't fit at all with our overall standards.
 
I honestly don't think Mr. Game & Watch is much of a valid character outside of his smash interation.

It's basically "composite protagonist for a video game consol", which honestly doesn't mesh with any of our standards for composite profiles.
 
Agreed. It is probably better to delete it.
 
Ahem

Smash Bros. retcons every G&W game to have the exact same protagonist. It refers Mr. Game & Watch as the "hero" and "main character" of the G&W line.

So the OG key is still a thing.
 
"First appearing in 1980, the Game & Watch series is the father of all portable liquid crystal games. The main character is simple and monochrome but has a timeless individuality. There are 39 different games in the series and they've sold over 43 million units worldwide. Pictured at left is the particularly popular Fire model." -Referring to Mr. Game & Watch

"The monochrome hero of the Game & Watch series, a fellow who oozes personality. First appearing in 1980, the series were the original portable game systems. The first games in the series were quite simple, but as time passed, technology evolved." - Referring to Mr. Game & Watch.

"Game & Watch was a series of handheld video games that started in 1980, before even the Game Boy. In this game, you can play as the guy who starred in them, moving about in his quirky, oh-so-retro little way. He can string together some pretty powerful attacks but, unfortunately, being 2D makes him very easy to launch." - Referring to Mr. Game & Watch

The protagonists in the Game & Watch lineup are Mr. Game & Watch, according to Nintendo.
 
I fail to see how the Smash character being supposed to represent numerous Game and Watch protagonists as any evidence of there being some kind of canon "protagonist" to every game released in a specific console, prior to Smash.

This would be like if Xbox made a character called "Xbox Man", gave him various abilities from various protagonists from Xbox games, and we somehow deduced from that that every protagonist of every Xbox game had been retroactively retconned to be the same exact character.

So no, I'm not really buying those quotes as a pass for us to ignore a massive chunk of our policy on composite profiles.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Where does the G&W Link fall under at any point in the LoZ timeline, then?
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly, Game and Watch Link is canonically the Hero of Hyrule Link from the first two games.
 
What even is the policy you're talking about?

You never brought up the fact that Smash is literally saying that this guy right here >>>> Mr. Game & Watch <<<< is the main character of the Game & Watch series and the one who stars in the Game & Watch games. The quotes literally say "You can play as the guy who starred in the Game & Watch games". Hell, even the Melee trophy, SSB4 trophy and Japanese version of the Brawl trophy says that Mr. Game & Watch's first appearance was in the Game & Watch series of games.

That's not deduction, that's a statement.
 
If you want me to break down each statement

Statement 1. "The Game & Watch series was released in 1980, Mr. Game & Watch is the main character"

Statement 2. "Mr. Game & Watch is the hero of the Game & Watch series."

Statement 3. "In Smash, you can play as the guy who is the starring lead in the Game & Watch series, Mr. Game & Watch"
 
All of those statements are applying to the Smash iteration of the character. The statements come from Smash; a game developed long, long after the Game and Watch consol games, and you're using statements from that to retroactively determine that somehow the seperate games all star the same exact character.

We don't, as a site, composite together entirely different characters. We composite together the same character over different iterations, but I honestly see no justification for compositing together the protagonists of an entire console. It's silly, just look at the Xbox example I gave.

And I'm not saying to delete the profile; the Smash version of the chatacter is its own thing. I don't find anything here convincing that we take those statements as anything but just referring to what the character in Smash represents. Like, if Smash applied the same concept and said, hey, that Link was in a similar situation, you wouldn't see us rushing to delete and merge every single Link profile.

It's getting absurd at this point, as apparently we're compositing a canon LoZ chracter into a made-up character for Smash. I'm very much against it.
 
I'd point out one thing.

These are trophies.

Trophies usually tend to talk about the history of a character. Not the character itself in Smash. The trophies say specifically, Mr. Game & Watch is a character that comes from the 1980 series of games, Game & Watch.

They don't say he "represents" every character in Game & Watch, or he "appears to be" or anything like that. They say it is the main character of Game & Watch.

They have a section which states the first game the character from each game appeared in, and guess what? They don't say "Super Smash Bros. Melee", they say "Game & Watch".
 
We wouldn't assume the trophies for Link or Cloud, if they provided new content/information, as canon to LoZ and FF7. I fail to see how G&W is any different.
 
Alright, I discussed with Ed off thread. We basically did this song and dance for a while and I decided to step away from pushing for the removal of the first key of the profile given that we do not scale feats, powers, and abilities from established verses with games outside of the G&W console, such as Mario and Link.

I feel like that at least solves the issue of this thread, and we can have a more in-depth discussion later.
 
However abilities demonstrated within the games (Resurrection, Weapon Mastery, etc.) should be fine as long as they aren't cross-scaled.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
I fail to see how the Smash character being supposed to represent numerous Game and Watch protagonists as any evidence of there being some kind of canon "protagonist" to every game released in a specific console, prior to Smash.

This would be like if Xbox made a character called "Xbox Man", gave him various abilities from various protagonists from Xbox games, and we somehow deduced from that that every protagonist of every Xbox game had been retroactively retconned to be the same exact character.

So no, I'm not really buying those quotes as a pass for us to ignore a massive chunk of our policy on composite profiles.
Click to expand...
I strongly agree with this.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Alright, I discussed with Ed off thread. We basically did this song and dance for a while and I decided to step away from pushing for the removal of the first key of the profile given that we do not scale feats, powers, and abilities from established verses with games outside of the G&W console, such as Mario and Link.

I feel like that at least solves the issue of this thread, and we can have a more in-depth discussion later.
Click to expand...
So what do you think should be done now?
 
Well

First off, explosion manip, fire manip, and martial arts.

Dargoo gave the okay for those to be added, then the thread can be closed I guess.
 
Well, we at least should remove the statistics that composites the original G&W characters and scales them from Zelda Link.
 
Link (Game & Watch)

Mr. Game & Watch scales to a different feat.

I have to sleep though.
 
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