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Mortal Kombat 1 Discussion Thread

ShockingPsychic said:
I've made all the Ghostface profiles up till now, I am eager to make the MK1 one

TIER 2 GHOSTFACE REAL???

As for actually getting MK1 profiles out, we need to see about this calc. Someone already made most of the profiles (not the DLC though)

There also seems to be some differing opinions on the Tier 2 characters and where they scale. Some suggested Low 2-C, some suggested 2-C. That should probably be ironed out.

I'm in the camp of "Low 2-C, possibly 2-C" for Liu Kang and other Titans, the "Hero/Dark" characters (who you play as/against in the final chapter), and the DLCs like Homelander and Omni-Man. I can see about a making a profile for one of them and then I can show it off and see if it's passable
Click to expand...
I don't think ghostface would scale to it
 
I'm fairly sure all the Guest characters are shown killing Tsang Shung in their ending cutscenes with the exception of Homelander, who one-shots Liu Kang instead

However, the tower endings are all canon thanks to multiverse stuff, same with Invasions (that you can use the guests in)
 
I don't have much else to do on-site atm, so I think I'm gonna focus on MK

Can someone link all the evidence for Tier 2 Liu Kang/Shang Tsung?
 
Ok so Titan Havik is everything I wanted from Havik seemingly

Dude is a chaotic mess and has the mace. He’s also boxing the **** out of Liu Kang and the boys
 
Shektor and Sherax are cool, finally some differentiation within the characters. Them having a part in the story also solves the issue of Janet Cage being there for the meme but with no personality.
I'm so fed up with Noob, so far looks 1:1 the edgy clown yapping edging nonsense at each occasion that was in 11. I get that he is connected to Bi Han and maybe this time they'll have the decency of avoiding making him a clown also in practical results. However, there were many more better options, like characters from the 3D era related to Havik too that they could bring back, instead of one we just had and who's basically unchanged in personality and appearance.
Ghostface is... ok, I guess? He's two games later in the thematic streak and while potentially cool, feels quite random in-between all the others, who also looks random because the whole gang is a mismatched bunch.
Conan feels also really out of place, he's based on the '80s movie but that thread is also from the last game and overall he isn't such an interesting character. I have total indifference for the T-1000 but it rubs me bad to have another Terminator character. Overall, it feels like a badly assorted cast of scrapped candidates from the past games given a second chance.
I honestly don't know which trend they should have picked after the "violent superheroes", but they could have done better.

Speaking of Tier 2, the main evidence is the battle between Liu Kang and Shang-Tsung releasing mammoth energies which ripped apart time's fabric, causing the birth of endless different timelines,
Personally, I disagree with counting this as an example of clear-cut Tier 2 AP, despite what might appear. Now, I don't remember all the counterarguments that were posed back then in a CRT that went on for pages, ending with the decision of waiting for the sequel of the story to shed more light.
For now, I'll lay down the reasons why I don't believe the characters should be tier 2. For starters, I'll quote the tiering system page requirements for Low 2-C, which are the same for 2-A but with infinite possibilities.
they can significantly affect, create and/or destroy higher-dimensional structures that exceed lesser objects by an uncountably infinite margin. An example of this being 4-dimensional spacetime continuums of universal size

While Liu and Shang have indeed significantly affected a spacetime continuum (Low 2-C), splitting it into two (so possibly 2-C) but also to endless others (so possibly 2-A), they have repeteadly failed to affect them in more thoroughly ways on their own and always needed to use the hourglass.
Shang Tsung, upon deciding to simply destroy Liu Kang's timeline, specifically needs to destroy the Hourglass of that timeline, instead of just doing so by virtue of his own power. This additionally tells us how the Hourglass is what sustains a timeline, not the Keeper of Time.
To restart and craft the timelines, both Liu Kang, Kronika and all the other Time Keepers need to use the Hourglass, not their own time power. This point is also repeated and shown a million times in MK11.
Lastly, Titan Shang Tsung's initial plan was to merge his and Liu Kang's timelines, but once again he couldn't do it on his own, he needed several portals powered by souls to transfer his army and still resort to the power of the Hourglass.

So, while this split of one timeline into endless ones would technically count as "significantly affect", we also have four other instances where the power that caused this was also insufficient to destroy, sustain, merge and reboot a single one, going against the notion of the Titans really hold such levels of power.
Passing on to Invasions, Scorpion vows to burn the entire timeline, but that is clearly figurative and an overtime threat of general destruction, likely involving the Hourglass. The only other way to destroy timelines mentioned so far to my knowledge is by connecting the Jinsei of all Earthrealms, but once again this is beyond a single individual.
 
SamanPatou said:
I'm so fed up with Noob, so far looks 1:1 the edgy clown yapping edging nonsense at each occasion that was in 11. I get that he is connected to Bi Han and maybe this time they'll have the decency of avoiding making him a clown also in practical results. However, there were many more better options, like characters from the 3D era related to Havik too that they could bring back, instead of one we just had and who's basically unchanged in personality and appearance
Click to expand...
Fan fave, take it or leave it - Ed Boon
 
I wouldn't say that, but I do have an issue with MK getting downplayed via ignoring several feats and deeming them unusable when similar feats from similar verses are uncontested and fine to use. Like all the Blaze feats, why don't we use those? I can't name another verse where we DON'T use alternate or "bad" endings for stuff. It's just really strange to me

Regardless, I'm only really focusing on MK1 right now. I believe that the Tier 2 feats we have are just about as simple as Tier 2 feats can get and it would be silly and disingenuous to make them anything but. I'll see about compiling a list of stuff from both 11 and 1 and see if I can make a case for Tier 2 Titans. This shouldn't be too hard besides the issues with whether or not they get the tier through themselves or the Hourglass
 
ShockingPsychic said:
I wouldn't say that, but I do have an issue with MK getting downplayed via ignoring several feats and deeming them unusable when similar feats from similar verses are uncontested and fine to use. Like all the Blaze feats, why don't we use those? I can't name another verse where we DON'T use alternate or "bad" endings for stuff. It's just really strange to me

Regardless, I'm only really focusing on MK1 right now. I believe that the Tier 2 feats we have are just about as simple as Tier 2 feats can get and it would be silly and disingenuous to make them anything but. I'll see about compiling a list of stuff from both 11 and 1 and see if I can make a case for Tier 2 Titans. This shouldn't be too hard besides the issues with whether or not they get the tier through themselves or the Hourglass
Click to expand...
Yeah I see
 
I mean, through the use of hourglass they are comfortably tier 2, my issue is with them being tier 2 just bt themselves
 
So while we talk about tier 2 feats, we should also not forget the guys who don't scale. Im still waiting for someone to calc the feat where Ermac-Jerrod and Kenshi lob some boulders at the Dragon Army which should give them their AP and LS (potentially not with TK only but physical LS also because Sub-Zero actually resisted Ermac's TK by flexing really hard)
 
ShockingPsychic said:
We have this, could be very helpful.
Click to expand...
Tossing in there my two cents on these feats.
Scorpion's heat feats are pretty good, but they won't work for general and physical ap due to the verse lacking a universal energy system which justifies it.
I don't think we can equate Ermac to a mathematical stack of energy for the tree, they just died out of not having a soul and so no life, like Shang Tsung's victimx which wither away like dry corpses.
Rain's feat is good for Environmental Destruction, but even then, it's a single spell that doesn't scale to to physicals or anything else, as Rain himself states he had never unleashes such a power incantation.

About scaling, I have an half idea regarding Dark Raiden from Shang Tsung's timeline who is identical to his MK11 self, so you could argue he remained the same even in strength. However, Netherrealm bullshit writing has him being defeated by Mileena, of all people, who in turn is a ring in another scaling chain that connects all characters. Then you have more bullshit with Evil Sindel knocking down even Liu Kang, then has a somewhat equal match with Good Sindel and then loses to Mileena again.
Moreover, as a guardian of Earthrealm and the same self from the previous timeline, Fire God Liu Kang should at minimum be as strong as Raiden was.
 
I have detailed my thoughts in a post above (here), but shortly they have proven to be unable to affect even just a single timeline on their own (destruction, merging, rebooting and sustaining all required the Hourglass).
 
So since becoming a Titan, Liu Kang:

Remade the universe poorly leaving many of the problems of his original universe just waiting to happen.

Made the lives of his old enemies shit out of pettiness, making them a self-fulfilling prophecy of villainy.

Realised he wasn't made for the job, handed over all responsibility to Geras and dipped.

Didn't even bother keeping an eye on Bi-Han.

Got beat up by Dark Sindel.

Got his Titan powers back only to get beat up by Titan Shang Tsung and Quan Chi.

Needed the help of a random Order of Light member to win that fight.

Even with his Titan powers back, he's not doing a good job. Someone or the other invades his timeline every month or so.

Didn't stop the rogue Lin Kuei from making the Cyber Initiative, Shang and Quan from escaping prison and getting back to their old ways etc.

Gonna get beat up by Titan Havik in the expansion and will need (massive spoilers) Noob Saibot to save his and the multiverse's ass.

When will Liu Kang stop catching Ls?
 
Well it was either that or turning into Kronika 2.0 by micromanaging everything. Between freedom that leads to chaos and order that leads to tyranny, he chose what can be said to be the lesser of two evils. And can we really blame him about giving a shitty life to Shang Tsung considering it's...well, Shang Tsung?
 
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