Morax 2-C? Really?

[BigDawgs]

This is just blatantly ridiculous, there's absolutely nothing to suggest he's even remotely at that level whatsoever. His durability is supposedly "Universe+" level despite the fact he can easily be fazed by generic assault rifles all the soldiers came to the Schwarzwelt with? His Attack Potency is "Universe Level" even though in-game he's only capable of a low level fire spell and far far stronger demons that invaded Earth clearly aren't capable of busting a Universe? Are you going to say that literally every single Soldier aboard the Red Sprite is a Universe Buster besides Doomguy? Where did him creating Antlia even come from? He simply claims he created the scathed battlefield area, nothing about the entire dimension. Honestly I would only put him between 8-C or 8-B based on his size alone. I'm sorry, but I feel this page needs a major revision.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ah the good old bullets ex machina argument

 

[BigDawgs]

Ah the good old bullets ex machina argument

I don't deny that guns in SJ are capable of some serious power and damage, however there's some serious discrepancy if you're trying to imply Doomguy is capable of busting a Universe 2 hours in the game.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The point is that regular bullets harming any character above 9-B in a video game is game mechanics as thats all you need to be to be bulletproof

 

[BigDawgs]

Point taken...Regardless I feel Morax is way too highballed here, being 2-C solely based on an extremely vague statement.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's not vague? They outright say that the Sectors of the Schwarzwelt are space-time continuums, and that each of them possesses a ruling demon, and they also speculate over the whether or not said demons created the sectors themselves. And when you reach Morax, he outright says to your face that he created his sector.

That's blatantly Low 2-C.

 

[DMB_1]

You don't mess with the 4th-Dimensional Bison.

 

[BigDawgs]

It's not vague? They outright say that the Sectors of the Schwarzwelt are space-time continuums, and that each of them possesses a ruling demon, and they also speculate over the whether or not said demons created the sectors themselves. And when you reach Morax, he outright says to your face that he created his sector.
That's blatantly Low 2-C.

Not ONCE does he mention creating the sector itself, only that he created the "scathed land" which only takes up maybe half of Antlia (in-game at least). Not only that, but there's no real indication as to how large Antlia itself actually is.

The other part about Morax supposedly being Universal relies on a half-baked theory by the Red Sprite that the Tyrant demons MAY have created each sector they occupy, but there's no real proof of that, and even then I have major doubts the Red Sprite would logically be capable of taking on Universe level threats at that point of the story when not even that long ago the entire ship was in a panic over a couple of slimes being able to punch through the ship hull.

I would like to see proof otherwise, otherwise I think he needs a reasonable downgrade. His Low 2-C rating is based mostly on conjecture.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

The Sectors are quite explicitly stated to be entire Universes / Space-Time Continuums, even the Three Wise Men refer to them as such at a certain point of the game. And the Demon Lords which rule over them literally emit a wave of energy which encompass their entirety all the way through their Zenith, that's like, a major plot point and the reason the Red Sprite can't just fly away through the Sectors and leave the Demons alone

Morax being 8-C is ridiculous. And Strange Journey does have its own low-ends, such as Mastema making a hole in the ground with a few punches being portrayed as super impressive

 

[BigDawgs]

And my point is there's nothing truly suggesting the Tyrants actually created those space-time continuums, only that they rule them. Though you do have a point about the whole "emitting energy" thing, but I'm not really sure if this makes them Universal or not, only that they have an intrinistic presence within their respective sectors, though remember these sectors can function and exist just fine without their rulers.

Fair enough 8-C was a major lowball on my part, my apologies. Still for the sake of argument if he's not Low 2-C what do you think would be a good alternative?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I always felt like the devastated Battlefield was Sector Antlia in it's entirety, given that it seems to align far better with the fact that the Sectors are supposed to reflect Humanity's vices than the icy caves that comprise Antlia's upper "layer". The fact that Morax stated he created it also fits with the fact that the battlefield is far bigger than it was supposed to be as an underground area, considering it has a sky with clouds and crashing planes

The Tyrants creating their Sectors in the Schwarzwelt also falls nicely in line with Demon Gods such as Loki or Set, who create entire Universes as extensions of themselves in the Expanse

 

[BigDawgs]

Well Antlia is special in that it's (I think) the only sector with two vastly separate sections, but the game still considers both areas to be part of Antlia, hell even one of the demons merely refers to the battlefield area as "one of the lower floors" or something like that. For all we know Morax just simply magically popped a burning town out of mid-air over a layer of ice.

While that may be true, I find it very odd a literal fodder demon like Morax would be at that kind of level, even considering the context.

Perhaps "Potentially Low 2-C" would be a suitable change then? There's nothing concrete enough to suggest he's actually at that level, but the possibiltiy is there I will admit.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

That I don't deny. But the battlefield being Sector Antlia proper would make far more sense, given that it is literally bigger on the inside (for lack of a better world) when compared to the ice-caves, since it literally has a complete sky with clouds and crashing planes, and the fact that the Sectors as a whole are supposed to be a warped reflection of Humanity's vices

Well, Morax is only really fodder when you take in-game levels into account, I think. Which isn't really a fair interpretation, since Shin Megami Tensei tends to place some characters as being higher-leveled than others, despite the story's context showing that the higher-leveled characters are weaker than lower ones. An example of this are the Law and Chaos Heroes of SMT I being Level 99, while Vishnu, who is canonically stronger than them and the Archangels, is level 80 or so

 

[BigDawgs]

Perhaps Morax is too weak to create an entire sector by himself, or Antlia was deliberately designed to be sort of a welcoming mat for the humans trying to catch them off-guard at first. I can't really say. I theorize that the Tyrants were given "templates" and put in whatever they desired, which could explain Antlia.

Yeah SMT never has been consistent with power levels and in-game stats aren't the best way to guage power, but a level 15 demon being that powerful is just absolutely crazy you have to admit.

Also, do you agree that Potentially Low 2-C is probably a more accurate rating? Sorry I keep badgering you about this.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I think Low 2-C is fine as it is. Given the whole context behind the Sectors and that stuff

 

[BigDawgs]

Well I tried. Feel free to lock this discussion, I can't really think of anything else to convince you guys otherwise.

 

[Extreme123dz]

Troll obvius troll, lol

 

[BigDawgs]

Yes everyone who has an opinion is in fact a troll honestly.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Not sure if one qualifies as a troll solely through arguing for a downgrade

Anyways. Closing this, forgot to do it earlier