Monsterverse Ghidorah Revision

[Dual_Binoculars]

Currently Ghidorah is 6-B for generating very large hurricanes and that is scaled to his physical stats. Every time Ghidorah has engaged in combat he always opts to using his gravity beams or physical blows. He has never once used his storms directly in combat, instead the storms seem to be more of a passive effect of his electric properties. I believe his storms should fall under the category of Environmental Destruction thus he should be 7-A Physically up to 6-B with Environmental Destruction. All other Monsters that are 6-B should also be downgraded to 7-A since they should scale to Ghidorah's physical stats and not his storms.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@WeeklyBattles

 

[Dual_Binoculars]

Bump

 

[Hellbeast]

Honestly fine with this

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Well, this is a big sad. I agree with this btw

 

[Hellbeast]

Our only hope is that Monke gives us good feats

 

[Armorchompy]

This does make sense.

 

[Dual_Binoculars]

I don't know if it has been calced yet, but it might be worth it to calc the explosion that destroyed Godzilla's temple. In the movie it looked pretty massive and the explosion looked to have destroyed the entire cave that housed the temple.

 

[KieranH10]

Sad, but this does make sense.

Edit: I got a recalc of the Meteor feat using the Inverse Square Law which comes out anywhere from High 6-C to 7-A which will obviously affect this thread so I thought I'd bring it up...

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Sad, but this does make sense.

Edit: I got a recalc of the Meteor feat using the Inverse Square Law which comes out anywhere from High 6-C to 7-A which will obviously affect this thread so I thought I'd bring it up...

Your calc seems good soo far....

You will have to ask a calc group member to check it first though.

 

[KieranH10]

I've put it on the evaluation thread, if no one shows up I'll ask a staff member directly.

 

[Hellbeast]

Seems solid

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Bump

Wouldn't be King Ghidorah and Godzilla way higher than 7-A Mothra's casual feat?

Literally Mothra just flapped her wings.. and got a 7-A feat

 

[Hellbeast]

Hmm
In that case they could get At least 7-A?

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

This frankly isn't consistent because the storm is created off just extra energy from Ghidorah's mere wing flaps.
The storms are very casual feats, his gravity beams are much stronger verbatim in the novel and by logic.
Capping the monsters at 6-B is also blatantly incorrect as that's not the cap of the storm and he spawns more
Country is very consistent in the verse as well, the army Ghidorah stomped had that much power, Ghidorah caused a mass extinction by simply arriving among many, many more
Passive environmental destruction is a stupid argument when not only does the storm move with him but again it derives from his bio-electricity which is his main weapon.
Meteor did no damage to Godzilla either so capping him there is nonsensical when there are monsters like Prime and Ghidorah who can actually hurt him.
Mountain level is blatant downplay and has no evidence. The Titans perform mountain level feats absolutely casually and sometimes by simply moving. Everything done by the others scales massively below Godzilla and King Ghidorah since the others won't even dare defy Ghidorah despite all making earthquakes, tsunamis, taking nukes, destroying mountains, etc with the greatest of ease.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I've put it on the evaluation thread, if no one shows up I'll ask a staff member directly.

Usually it only takes 24 hours to get a response on the calc request thread, if not... it just got ignored.

 

[KieranH10]

Yeah, they should get an "At least" if they get downgraded. If the calc goes through they'll likely be the ones to scale (Hoping the High 6-C end gets accepted). With lower tier Titans staying 7-A.

 

[KieranH10]

Usually it only takes 24 hours to get a response on the calc request thread, if not... it just got ignored.

I know, I normally have to contact staff with my calcs lol.

 

[Hellbeast]

So I guess it'll be

At Least 7-A (Mothra and El Rodano), At least 7-A, likely far higher (Ghidorah and Goji)

 

[ZeedKZ]

Are you guys gonna ignore Godzilla's reply?

 

[KieranH10]

That seems fair.

 

[Ped2018]

You guys are really ignoring him?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Bump

Now that I remember why Ghidorah would use his storms against other Titans, if Rodan was flying through them like nothing on the film. :v

 

[KieranH10]

This frankly isn't consistent because the storm is created off just extra energy from Ghidorah's mere wing flaps.
The storms are very casual feats, his gravity beams are much stronger verbatim in the novel and by logic.
Capping the monsters at 6-B is also blatantly incorrect as that's not the cap of the storm and he spawns more
Country is very consistent in the verse as well, the army Ghidorah stomped had that much power, Ghidorah caused a mass extinction by simply arriving among many, many more
Passive environmental destruction is a stupid argument when not only does the storm move with him but again it derives from his bio-electricity which is his main weapon.
Meteor did no damage to Godzilla either so capping him there is nonsensical when there are monsters like Prime and Ghidorah who can actually hurt him.
Mountain level is blatant downplay and has no evidence. The Titans perform mountain level feats absolutely casually and sometimes by simply moving. Everything done by the others scales massively below Godzilla and King Ghidorah since the others won't even dare defy Ghidorah despite all making earthquakes, tsunamis, taking nukes, destroying mountains, etc with the greatest of ease.

That quote says his wings generate "Hurricane force winds" not "Hurricanes"
Even if that were the case, Weather Feats should not scale to AP unless explicitly stated or with some huge amount of evidence to suggest otherwise.

Once again, a casual storm feat is still nothing more than environmental destruction unless used directly as an attack

He summons more non AP storms.

Those points have been brought up in the past. Most of them can mean anything, and extinction events can take years

Why is it a stupid argument? Once again Weather Manip is generally environmental destruction without any further usage of it as an attack

Yes, the meteor did no visible damage to Goji, so they will scale above whatever that calc gets.

Mountain level has a bunch of evidence, including an accepted calc that multiple people have already agreed on. No Titan has performed a mountain level feat by simply moving
The Earthquakes and tsunamis get no higher than 7-C, nukes are no higher than a very generous 7-B, the mountains destroyed are no taller than 100 metres if you're referring to Methuselah, who's like 90 metres tall. Which would get no higher than mid tier 7.

 

[Hellbeast]

Are you guys gonna ignore Godzilla's reply?

We've already gone through his reasoning but:

• Ghidorah's wingflaps aren't something he puts similar amounts of energy into his attacks clearly. Apparently the Gravity Beams are stronger but he's provided no proof so..
• The larger storm he references hasn't been calced to my knowledge so it's ambiguous how much energy that takes
• Country level military is blatant hyperbole; I don't think I need to explain why a relatively grounded verse having Teraton level military forces not in respect to thermonuclear stuff is stupid
• The meteor blatantly did. The scan references Awakenings which implies Zilla was incapacitated by the meteor and this ignores the actual calc we have for this being much lower then originally used
• Mass Extinction also means nothing because he's arbitrarily assuming comparability to the KT when that clearly isn't true
• The feats he mentions are Tier 7 at best. The best is 7-A and the earthquakes, tsunamis and destruction of skyscrapers are lower end Tier 7

 

[KieranH10]

While I'm here, we should also downgrade the Argo. It did nothing but annoy a couple kaiju which should not in any way warrant it being comparable to the top tiers.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

That seems fair.

That calc assumes the meteor hit TEN KILOMETERS away from Godzilla I DUNNO ABOUT YOU BUT THIS LOOKS LIKE LESS THAN SIX MILES+

 

[KieranH10]

I mean any closer any it's just gonna get back up to 6-B eventually. The whole point of the calc was because people didn't think the meteor was close enough to scale, if we start bringing it close again people might start having problems again.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

That quote says his wings generate "Hurricane force winds" not "Hurricanes"
Even if that were the case, Weather Feats should not scale to AP unless explicitly stated or with some huge amount of evidence to suggest otherwise.

Once again, a casual storm feat is still nothing more than environmental destruction unless used directly as an attack

He summons more non AP storms.

Those points have been brought up in the past. Most of them can mean anything, and extinction events can take years

Why is it a stupid argument? Once again Weather Manip is generally environmental destruction without any further usage of it as an attack

Yes, the meteor did no visible damage to Goji, so they will scale above whatever that calc gets.

Mountain level has a bunch of evidence, including an accepted calc that multiple people have already agreed on. No Titan has performed a mountain level feat by simply moving
The Earthquakes and tsunamis get no higher than 7-C, nukes are no higher than a very generous 7-B, the mountains destroyed are no taller than 100 metres if you're referring to Methuselah, who's like 90 metres tall. Which would get no higher than mid tier 7.

Weather feats get AP values all the time, and this is shown blatantly to apply in many series. Not only that, but it's blatantly shown that Ghidorah's AP would scale vastly above the storm since it's torn though by every other kaiju in the film, including Rodan and Mothra. The former of which he held back against and was toying with, the latter he vaporized. Both of them did mountain level things by basically existing.

Where does this stupid argument even come from? If someone's existence generates enough energy that a massive storm forms around them, the attacks using the same energy that made the storm would scale if not far surpass what created the storm. That's why this argument is stupid, it's pretending that a very casual feat is somehow beyond the capabilities of the characters that did it without even trying. It makes absolutely no sense.

They can, but this one didn't. Also that blatantly confirms that Ghidorah's storm DOES do damage, and its passive output should scale FAR below his actual attacks.

And that meteor feat consistently gets teratons of output, how the Hell is that mountain level? Especially when it basically hit him point blank?

Mothra's mountain level calc is from her FLAPPING HER WINGS, which would be if anything worse than Ghidorah who is far more powerful doing the same.

Methuselah destroyed a mountain simply by standing. A mountain that crushed a whole city. What city is so small a 90 meter kaiju would fit over it?
Do you see how stupid the mountain level argument is?

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

• Ghidorah's wingflaps aren't something he puts similar amounts of energy into his attacks clearly. Apparently the Gravity Beams are stronger but he's provided no proof so..
• The larger storm he references hasn't been calced to my knowledge so it's ambiguous how much energy that takes
• Country level military is blatant hyperbole; I don't think I need to explain why a relatively grounded verse having Teraton level military forces not in respect to thermonuclear stuff is stupid
• The meteor blatantly did. The scan references Awakenings which implies Zilla was incapacitated by the meteor and this ignores the actual calc we have for this being much lower then originally used
• Mass Extinction also means nothing because he's arbitrarily assuming comparability to the KT when that clearly isn't true
• The feats he mentions are Tier 7 at best. The best is 7-A and the earthquakes, tsunamis and destruction of skyscrapers are lower end Tier 7

The fact that he doesn't just flap his wings on Godzilla should be proof enough, but very well. When preparing the death blow on Godzilla, it's stated Ghidorah's bottled up the lightning of 100 storms. This is just before Mothra sacrifices herself. Does this explicitly mean Ghidorah's attacks are 100x stronger than his storm? Not exactly, but once more Ghidorah's just extra energy from flapping his wings creates the storms, and the gravity beams are stronger verbatim.
Godzilla also tears Ghidorah's wings up despite again being so robust and reinforced that the excess energy creates these gigantic hurricanes.

That's a fair point. However the one shown on screen was at least in the dozens of teratons or so.

The fact the KoTM nuclear bomb was also preposterously large (wiping out a city and creating a shockwave that traveled 600 miles while deep underwater should be above the paygrade of any nuclear weapon given the pressure and density of seawater) and the fact that the entire north hemisphere was involved should make it pretty clear the grounded part isn't applicable here. The Monsterverse also created maser guns, invisible energy shields and the Argo along with the Oxygen Destroyer. Also, there's no proof any language there is hyperbolic so that's a stupid claim.

No it didn't. Godzilla literally tanked it and didn't even move from the spot he was standing on. The comic then proceeds to explain Godzilla only submerged because there was no longer a threat and because the surface lost a lot of radiation. Where the Hell is he shown being injured? The calc also assumes it hit TEN KILOMETERS away which is an assumption based on literally nothing. It's drawn very close to him before crashing.

How? How is it not true? It's referenced many, many times as being comparable to what Ghidorah did and will do if unchecked.

Again all of these are very casual and from much weaker things. The fact Godzilla dead on his feet would bully all of them is evidence of that.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I think people here is forgetting MUTO Prime feat

History speaks of it as the "Earthquake Beetle", or the "Dragon Beetle", but one name etched into ancient stone tablets echoes through myth and legend, and we have come to know it as Jinshin-Mushi; an ancient adversary of Godzilla with a rivalry as old as the Earth itself.

The myth of Jinshin-Mushi has been largely erased from history. Records of the encounters between the legendary titan Godzilla have been difficult to find, limited to intricate paintings on ancient Phoenician stone tablets. But the more we learn about the mysterious superspecies, our knowledge about the MUTOs we have previously encountered increases.

Jinshin-Mushi is an imposing specimen with razor-sharp back spires towering atop a hardened outer shell, making it an unstoppable mountain of a tank as it erupts from the earth. Powerful legs strike the ground like a devastating seismic salvo of cannons heard for miles with each thunderous step, digging into the earth to take a battle-hardened stance on the surface against any Titan aggressor it faces.

Mythological studies suggest that Jinshin-Mushi is genetically programmed to find a suitable host to reproduce. Ovipositors guided by glands sensitive to the scent of uranium in Titan blood pierce the hide with the deadly speed and reflex of a scorpion tail, depositing eggs inside the stomach lining of its slain opponent. Once nested within the muscle tissue, the eggs begin the incubation process. They slowly feed on the nuclear-rich hemoglobin in the Titan host's blood, making the beast unable to replenish atomic energy and eventually killing it. The embryos continue to grow within the body in a gestation period spanning centuries, before finally emerging from the cracked ribcage of a fallen giant as a male and female sub-species with a biological imperative to reproduce, creating a breeding force to consume all life on Earth. We call them MUTOs.

We theorize that seismic activity is created by Jinshin-Mushi's underground travels, staying localized mostly in Pacific regions, causing supershear earthquakes that can rip through the planet's mantel at unstoppable supersonic speeds. And the fear struck with every major earthquake comes not from what will topple to the ground, but what will raise from beneath it.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

This is further explained by the author (or one of) that she actually does manipulate the tectonic plates using her power. Not magic and not moving whole continents. But still, a feat nonetheless.
I would like to see what this could get.

 

[KieranH10]

Weather feats get AP values all the time, and this is shown blatantly to apply in many series. Not only that, but it's blatantly shown that Ghidorah's AP would scale vastly above the storm since it's torn though by every other kaiju in the film, including Rodan and Mothra. The former of which he held back against and was toying with, the latter he vaporized. Both of them did mountain level things by basically existing.

Where does this stupid argument even come from? If someone's existence generates enough energy that a massive storm forms around them, the attacks using the same energy that made the storm would scale if not far surpass what created the storm. That's why this argument is stupid, it's pretending that a very casual feat is somehow beyond the capabilities of the characters that did it without even trying. It makes absolutely no sense.

They can, but this one didn't. Also that blatantly confirms that Ghidorah's storm DOES do damage, and its passive output should scale FAR below his actual attacks.

And that meteor feat consistently gets teratons of output, how the Hell is that mountain level? Especially when it basically hit him point blank?

Mothra's mountain level calc is from her FLAPPING HER WINGS, which would be if anything worse than Ghidorah who is far more powerful doing the same.

Methuselah destroyed a mountain simply by standing. A mountain that crushed a whole city. What city is so small a 90 meter kaiju would fit over it?
Do you see how stupid the mountain level argument is?

Which series are these? Passive Weather Manipulation should in no way scale to Attack Potency, especially if there's no actual evidence of it doing so.
Also that about the other Kaiju tearing through the storms effortlessly is just more evidence of them not dealing damage at all...

Pretty much every argument about Weather Manip I've seen. Changing the weather isn't an attack. Even if it were the same energy stated to be powering both his storms and his attacks it's still environmental destruction, I've seen cases where the storms a character passively creates are directly stated to be created by the same type of energy the guy is powered by, but it got him nowhere tier wise because Weather=/=AP.

Why does that confirm anything? That could be changing the atmosphere of the planet over the course of like 500 years. Which leads to nothing.

The Meteor feat has been argued against, agree on that it didn't hit directly, and has a new calc putting it High 6-C without hitting point blank. Yes, the total explosion was 6-B, but Godzilla didn't take the full explosion.

Yes, that proves nothing for Ghidorah. Mothras feat is clearing clouds, Ghidorahs is creating them. Clearing clouds can be done and can correlate to AP because it's actual physical strength doing it. Ghidorahs cannot because he's making storms by some unknown means that have been shown to do nothing offensively.

That was a tiny town that he destroyed for starters. So unless you disagree with the Official size of Methuselah at 98.1456m. That mountain was at very most like 150 metres tall. Which is not mountain level.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

This is further explained by the author (or one of) that she actually does manipulate the tectonic plates using her power. Not magic and not moving whole continents. But still, a feat nonetheless.
I would like to see what this could get.

Are people still gonna ignore this?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Which series are these? Passive Weather Manipulation should in no way scale to Attack Potency, especially if there's no actual evidence of it doing so.
Also that about the other Kaiju tearing through the storms effortlessly is just more evidence of them not dealing damage at all...

This is further explained by the author (or one of) that she actually does manipulate the tectonic plates using her power. Not magic and not moving whole continents. But still, a feat nonetheless.

 

[KieranH10]

We need to get that calced before it can be used for country level

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

We need to get that calced before it can be used for country level

Can you please do it?

 

[KieranH10]

I wouldn't know where to begin with a calc like that. Sorry. I'd recommend putting it in the request thread. My bet would be if the MUTO was under the ground though there's a high chance it'd be considered a Chain reaction feat, which doesn't scale to AP either.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I wouldn't know where to begin with a calc like that. Sorry. I'd recommend putting it in the request thread. My bet would be if the MUTO was under the ground though there's a high chance it'd be considered a Chain reaction feat, which doesn't scale to AP either.

Dude MUTO Prime can do that on the ground..... not necesity to be UNDERground

The MUTO Prime possessed tremor-inducing legs, which made her capable of producing massive earthquakes. By slamming the ground with her forelimbs, MUTO Prime could trigger shockwaves that would destabilize nearby fault lines in the Earth

 

[KieranH10]

It'd still need calcing before it warrants anything.