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4 Months ago, I made a big downgrade thread, and one of the things I did there was suggesting that White Fatalis' feat was not a true solar eclipse, bringing it up to question, but ultimately it sorta glossed over, as my evidence for it wasn't that strong due to a lack of information
Upon thinking about what I had a little bit more, I'm here to make the same statement again, with a little bit more omph, and as it's own thread to be the primary focus of discussion.
By itself, one could reasonably draw that it's a solar eclipse, even if a few things are weird
Ultimately, these details were what initially stood out to me, and what drove and drive me to consider the feat as a whole
With the establishment out of the way, let's get to the omph.
White Fatalis' page even goes so far as to exclude telekinesis from their overall abilities, as they don't demonstrate it against any hunters or launch any projectiles in favor of creating a thick storm and attacking with lightning bolts. Storms already naturally block out the sun by quite a bit, something as supernatural as Fatalis should be more than able to do the same without a celestial object being moved in place.
There isn't air in space.
Initially, that seems like it's just a non-sequitur, but Monster Hunter only has three entities that fly without wind, Amatsu, Ibushi, and Narwa. I dunno what's up with the former (outside of their profile describing it as them swimming in the air like a leviathan), but the latter have an explicit alternative method, being wind and thundersacs, in order to propel themselves in the fashion that they do. White Fatalis both doesn't have those, and also doesn't fly anywhere near like them, as they take the more conventional wingflaps and actively blow back hunters from beneath them when they take off or land
Not to mention it's short arms and long neck would make both trying to flap their wings properly while applying that force to the moon incredibly awkward, and the fact White Fatalis is still an organic creature that likely needs to breathe to operate with such physical strain on top of that inherent disadvantage.
It doesn't benefit their ability to fight the hunters that have transgressed upon castle schrade without their permission whatsoever, all it does is block out some light and force them to fly 3184 kilometers both ways in a short enough timespan that they don't just figure he's not home and leave. A storm directly benefits their ability to fight, but this, coupled with the complications of even pulling it off, just makes the entire scene seem baffling more than an impressive expression of nature's power.
Elder Dragons do have their own forms of being Theatric in some cases, like Kushala's entrance in 4U, but that's something it can at least do at will by flapping it's wings. The amount of effort White Fatalis supposedly puts in to pushing the moon both does nothing to properly intimidate it's prey and is far, far more inconvenient then simply manifesting a storm and flying down to face them directly
Heck, Banned Lagiacrus, the guy who references enough guidebooks to practically be WOG by themselves, mentions that White Fatalis is probably a completely different type of creature entirely, so it's not like you can refer to the fact Variants are sorta close enough to each other in power for this to be viable, and even if this were dismissed, several variants have direct showings of being vastly more powerful than their normal forms. Deviants, Raging Brachidyos, the metal Raths, and Ebony Odogaron goes so far as to outright oneshot their normal form.
Upon thinking about what I had a little bit more, I'm here to make the same statement again, with a little bit more omph, and as it's own thread to be the primary focus of discussion.
The context
The profile links to a calculation of the feat, but the same general idea applies
By itself, one could reasonably draw that it's a solar eclipse, even if a few things are weird
Ultimately, these details were what initially stood out to me, and what drove and drive me to consider the feat as a whole
With the establishment out of the way, let's get to the omph.
White Fatalis does not have telekinesis, they have weather manipulation
The header explains itself, but indeed. In fact, no monster, even up to black dragons, directly showcase the ability to remotely apply force to general entities. Yes, Dalamadur, Crimson Fatalis and Dire Miralis are capable of summoning meteors, but those are substantially smaller than the entirety of the moon, and only used directly for the purpose of launching them at an enemy in combat.White Fatalis' page even goes so far as to exclude telekinesis from their overall abilities, as they don't demonstrate it against any hunters or launch any projectiles in favor of creating a thick storm and attacking with lightning bolts. Storms already naturally block out the sun by quite a bit, something as supernatural as Fatalis should be more than able to do the same without a celestial object being moved in place.
"Well, if they don't have telekinesis, they could have just moved it physically"
The problem behind this is a simple one.There isn't air in space.
Initially, that seems like it's just a non-sequitur, but Monster Hunter only has three entities that fly without wind, Amatsu, Ibushi, and Narwa. I dunno what's up with the former (outside of their profile describing it as them swimming in the air like a leviathan), but the latter have an explicit alternative method, being wind and thundersacs, in order to propel themselves in the fashion that they do. White Fatalis both doesn't have those, and also doesn't fly anywhere near like them, as they take the more conventional wingflaps and actively blow back hunters from beneath them when they take off or land
Not to mention it's short arms and long neck would make both trying to flap their wings properly while applying that force to the moon incredibly awkward, and the fact White Fatalis is still an organic creature that likely needs to breathe to operate with such physical strain on top of that inherent disadvantage.
White Fatalis has absolutely no reason to even do this
Let's just think about it logically here... Why, even?It doesn't benefit their ability to fight the hunters that have transgressed upon castle schrade without their permission whatsoever, all it does is block out some light and force them to fly 3184 kilometers both ways in a short enough timespan that they don't just figure he's not home and leave. A storm directly benefits their ability to fight, but this, coupled with the complications of even pulling it off, just makes the entire scene seem baffling more than an impressive expression of nature's power.
Elder Dragons do have their own forms of being Theatric in some cases, like Kushala's entrance in 4U, but that's something it can at least do at will by flapping it's wings. The amount of effort White Fatalis supposedly puts in to pushing the moon both does nothing to properly intimidate it's prey and is far, far more inconvenient then simply manifesting a storm and flying down to face them directly
This far exceeds the scale of even other Black Dragons
Even if you brush aside everything I just said, this shouldn't just scale to everything across the board. Let's look at that justification I posted near the start againThere is no reason for this to be a thing. Even as of it's introduction to the franchise, MH4U, Fatalis and Crimson Fatalis are both viable fights even back in High Rank, while White Fatalis is reserved for deep into G Rank. And outside of game mechanics, Fatalis' claim to fame is the fact they were able to burn down a country overnight, that would be utterly nothing if they were capable of genuinely incinerating the planet with the amount of firepower they can output. Same applies to Dire Miralis boiling the tainted sea (which I estimated as anywhere from 5 Kilotons to 16 Gigatons), or Safi'jiva having full control of the bioenergy of an entire island. The only thing that actually reaches Tier 5 or even a global scale in general is stuff like the very vague descriptions for Mantles, referencing the power to control or destroy the world, or Dire Miralis' greatsword mentioning it can set the world on fire for 7 days and nights (I refer to Guildmarm on this particular line)
Heck, Banned Lagiacrus, the guy who references enough guidebooks to practically be WOG by themselves, mentions that White Fatalis is probably a completely different type of creature entirely, so it's not like you can refer to the fact Variants are sorta close enough to each other in power for this to be viable, and even if this were dismissed, several variants have direct showings of being vastly more powerful than their normal forms. Deviants, Raging Brachidyos, the metal Raths, and Ebony Odogaron goes so far as to outright oneshot their normal form.
Conclusion
Black Dragons in general should be downgraded to Low 6-B, as the 5-A feat has several reasons to not be a genuine solar eclipse as opposed to a supernatural weather anomaly. Even if that part is somehow disregarded, anything that isn't actually shown to be on White Fatalis' level shouldn't scale to them.
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