Monster Hunter changes

[Lasatar]

Folklore most likely.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Yeah, that's probably the most fair conclusion on that.

 

[ZillaJrKaijuKing]

Monster Hunter item descriptions are all hyperbole. They're never supported by in-game depictions of monsters. Akantor and Ukanlos, for instance, are also described as world-shaping gods when they're really just big animals.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

We usually use the item descriptions if there is actual evidence to back them up. Like how Kirin are seen in battle zipping around like a lightning bolt. There were instances in canon where Oroshi Kirin have frozen whole villages in seconds, which supports the Oroshi Kirin's item saying that, in an entire night, it could freeze a kingdom.

Another example: Dalamadur's meteors come from the sun. This is stated by an item that is only found on these meteors, and it was stated in canon that they come from the sun.

So, at least not all of them are hyperbole, and we can usually draw some sort of conclusion from them.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

So, looking into the Uragaan, it apparently is considered enough of a threat that even the Deviljho will avoid picking a fight with it.

It is described as being given room to do as it pleases once it reaches adulthood, and it's two known natural predators... Are Nakarkos and Akantor. How exactly Uragaan scales it not know to me, but I do know that it contains enough power to ward off Brachydios and Deviljho.

Uragaan page

 

[ZillaJrKaijuKing]

We usually use the item descriptions if there is actual evidence to back them up. Like how Kirin are seen in battle zipping around like a lightning bolt. There were instances in canon where Oroshi Kirin have frozen whole villages in seconds, which supports the Oroshi Kirin's item saying that, in an entire night, it could freeze a kingdom.
Another example: Dalamadur's meteors come from the sun. This is stated by an item that is only found on these meteors, and it was stated in canon that they come from the sun.

When were these stated in canon?

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Kirin: Being one with lightning, and in this video, We see the Kirin travelling as if it were actually lightning.

Oroshi Kirin: Legends state that Oroshi Kirin freeze villages in seconds, which is eerily similar to how they Can apparently freeze kingdoms with enough time.

Dalamadur: States that the "Meteors" coming from Dalamadur are actually "Falling Stars", and later in the same sentence refers to them as their own individual Star, and in here it states that "meteors" are actually framents of a Star.


These all come from official sources, too, as stated at The top of the page.

 

[Lasatar]

I'm back, finally. Now, I think we might start thinking about adding Fatalis' Frontier stuff. Have you heard of the Black Flame Fatalis? That is one of the names of G-Rank Fatalis. You know that legend about Fatalis being able to burn the world? It's very probable that this Fatalis is able to do that. Just look at its lore. There's also the Crimson Demon Fatalis (G-Rank Crimson), which is much the same as the Black Flame. BannedLagiacrus all but confirmed the G-Rank variants to be the same as the Fatalis' in the legend, in his Conquest War blog.

Any thoughtson the matter? Also, I belive that we should provide a Key on Fatalis' page, differenciating Black, Crimson, White, Black Flame, Crimson Demon, and Composite.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

I think it would be fine to add in all those keys, honestly. Also, I do remember you bringing this up before, and I have had time to think on it.

I believe that, when looking at everything, it is actually rather ahrd to say which version of the Fatalis was actually responasible for the Schrade Kingdom incident, as even the Conquest War Blog says the following.

"It is scary just imagining how Schrade Kingdom was destroyed, especially if it was by this Fatalis! "


Anyway, I think that, potentially, the normal Fatalis/Crimson Fatalis may have been responsible for the Schrade Kingdom attack, given what is said in the Crimson Fatalis Ecology page. It states that, when the Fatalis responsible for the Schrade Kingdom attck was sent running, it had become a Crimson Fatalis.However, it doesn't seem to be a G-Rank Conquest Wars Crimson Fatalis, as it's body is described to be different from a G-Rank Conqeust Wars Crimson Fatalis. Although, it isn't exactly thre same as a standard Crimson Fatalis, however I do believe that you can encounter a Crimson Fatalis like this in MH4U anyway.

Also, I do not think that the Conquest War Fatalis and Crimson Fatalis are stronger then the White Fatalis. As it stands, a Fatalis and Crimson Fatalis will inevitably become a White Fatalis once they grow old, and until a G-Rank Conquest Wars White Fatalis is confirmed, we can only assume that the G-Rank Fatalis and G-Rank Crimson Fatalis will reach their peak as the White Fatalis that we already know of.

So, while they are stronger then the nomral Fatalis and Crimson Fatalis, I don't really think that they are stronger then our current White Fatalis. I could be proven wrong by the time a G-Rank White Fatalis comes out.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Man, it's been WAY to long.


Anywho, I figured I'd just drop something here for the heck of it...


In the last thread, The Perpetual got MCB for Kirin because a lightning bolt has 1,000,000,000 Joules in it, and Kirin has the power of a thousand of those. But from what I could find, it was accepted for Pikachu and on This site that lightning has up to 5,000,000,000 joules, which is Building Level (1.2 Tons of TNT iirc). Kirin is a thousand times stronger then that, and should be about 1.1950 Kilotons with what I got, making Kirin just BARELY Small Town level. Of course, Jho and Rajang are no longer MCB/MCB+, and are now just barely Small Town as well, should this be accepted.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that this seems reasonable.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Also, if it is alright, may I edit Kirin's page? It kind of bothers me how it only shows the maximum speed for Kirin, and the power output for Oroshi Kirin. I'd like to add in the Small Town feat for the normal Kirin, while adding in something like "At Least Superhuman" for Oroshi Kirin's speed.

Also, I'd like to make a key for the Lao Kirin. I do not know how powerful it would be specifically. However, I do know that the Lao Kirin is stated to be as strong as a Lao-Shan Lung, which is a monster with only one Natural Predator, considering it's habitat; The Fatalis. If nothing can be derived from this, then an Unknown rating could be used, but specified to be far stronger then the other two forms and is comparable to a Lao-Shan Lung.

Thoughts?

 

[Lasatar]

This is the first time I've heard of this Lao Kirin. Could I have a source of where you got this info from? Also, adding a key for Kirin and Fatalis would probably be for the best. Right now, I'm dealing with Etrian Odyssey stuff, which is why I haven't been responding to this thread very much. I've no objections to you making the changes, GJJ.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Lao Kirin was documented here in legend. And in the Gallery for that same page, they label that picture of the Kirin as the Lao Kirin (IDK if that is really the Lao Kirin, but I guess you can decide for yourself).

So, in all fairness, this could certainly be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Lasatar]

Well, we've taken a few things from the lore already (heck, that's what all of Amatsu and Kirin's stats frome from), so you could just pop down a note saying: "This version of Kirin is not yet confirmed to be real or not", just to be safe.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Alrighty, gonna edit it then, I suppose.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Edits are done. I decided to just exclude Lao Kirin for now, since we don't have much on him at all and he is not even confirmed to exist.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Also, since the pages seem to be unlocked, may I also edit Deviljho's profile?

I'd like to edit Agnaktor's too, but I just want to confirm it's AP and such before we do so.

 

[Antvasima]

What do you want to change?

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

I want to scale Devijlho to Rajang, who in turn is scaled from Kirin, making both Small Town level and Massively Hypersonic+. Not only are they considered as powerful as Elder Dragons, but they are known for being far stronger then most other monsters that aren't Elder Dragons. Plus, Rajang is outright stated to prey on Kirin, and Deviljho is depicted as it's rival. So the two should be about even with one another.


Aganktor could probably stay at Building Level Durability and AP, since it could barely take two of Brachydios' standard slime blobs, which were calced at 1.7 Tons of TNT, which was done here . And his speed should probably go up to either Hypersonic+ or High Hypersonic (Mach 14 - Mach 29 respectively), since it could dig to (what are presumably) magma chambers in about 1 second while in the desert, and then make the return trip in one second. Magma chambers, the particularly shallow ones that appear in deserts, are usually 5-10 km deep into the ground iirc.

However, the one thing that kinda confused me about Agnaktor is that it can apparently trigger a volcanic eruption at most any point, which may lead to an absurdly high AP rating, so I was just wondering if I could get thoughts on that.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the changes that you proposed seem mostly alright, but you will probably need a calculation for the scale of the volcanic eruption.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

I'll make a request for the volcanic eruption later.

But for now, I'm alright to make these additions?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that they seem reasonable, yes.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

So, I'm just gonna post some potential buff material.

Ivory Lagiacrus: Stated to keep up with Deviljho, meaning it should scale to speed/dura/AP (Which makes me happy because I think ivory Lagia is amazing). We could most likely set up a seperate key for it.

Nakarkos: Casually preys on Brachydios and and Agnaktor, as well as Uragaan (which even Deviljho steer clear from, ONLY for their power), so he should be at around MCB, or moer likely Small Town while being High Hypersonic. These guys ALSO keep up with Ceadeus, though more often then not, Ceadeus are superior. Regardless if we keep Ceadeus at Town Level or if we buff it to Island Level via it's lore-based feats, this should get scaled below Ceadeus.

Ceadeus: Stated that Adult Ceadues prey on Nakarkos, so it should most likely be scaled in speed at least. Also, while I do remember being told that we should get a calc done for Ceadeus' Island sinking feat, I don't think we actually can. There are no good, full shots of the island in question, and even if we did get a good shot, we don't really have any means of finding a size for the island. So all we are left with is the fact that is has sunk and island, and it would have sunk another island should it have gotten serious.

Whatever we get as a result of this (And by that I mean whether we change it to Island Level or keep it at Town Level), it would still provide a noteworthy AP rating for Abyssal Lagiacrus and Nakarkos, though these two are slightly weaker then Ceadeus.

Abyssal Lagiacrus: Implied to be near equals with Ceadeus. It should certainly scale to it's new speed, Mach 29/High Hypersonic. Whether we decide to keep Ceadeus at Town Level or Island level, it would then provide a buff to this one's strength and, rightfully so, make it the strongest Lagiacrus.

Kushala Daora: Stated to create Hurricanes and large Thunderstorms, which, iirc should at least be Large Town Level. However, it is ONLY this powerful with it's storm generation. Physically, it should most likely be Small Town Level, as a Rajang can threaten it's life on most occasions. Also, thanks to The Perpetual in the last thread, we found out that it's attacj speed is Mach 154 via dispersing clouds covering the sky all the way to the horizen.

Chameleos: Stated in the Kushala Daora Ecology that these two compete, meaning that this monster COULD be Small Town Level as well, and comparable in speed.

Amatsu: Stated that it has superior storm powers then Kushala Daora, though it likely isn't much stronger then it physically, and likely should be scaled to Kushala Doara's stats, mostly.

Dalamadur: The only thing I can think to add at this point is to at least buff it's AP to Small Mountain, given how casually it it stated to break mountains. Also, it was stated on two occasions that the "meteors" that it summons are actually small fragments of our sun, which can travel form the sun to Earth anywhere between 5-10 seconds, meaning that, with this ONE attack, it could have FTL attack speed. Everything else should likely stay the same, though.


Any thoughts or doubts on the material above would be appreciated.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

I made this thread.

Input would be appreciated.

 

[Lasatar]

They actually did it. The absolute madmen.

I'm gonna go see what info I can dig up about it. However, I can say one thing for sure; this is most likely the most powerful being in the entire series. This little tidbit of info from BannedLagiacrus pretty much confirms it: Each one of G-rank White Fatalis's scales contain unbelievable power. Power that can't be rivaled. I have seen a lot of bold claims staing the power of certain monsters, but this literally up and says that a single scale from the G Rank White Fatalis is more powerful than anything else in the verse. Just think about that for a second.

BTW, this Fatalis doesn't simply kill you, it literally removes you from existence. Just check this out.

 

[Antvasima]

This is a very old thread, so I will close it.