Monika and Non-existence

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Except that she automatically becomes Nonexistent if she were to die. It doesn't actually help her survivability at all to start in this ""form"". It's like having a Mid-Godly character start erased. It doesn't make them harder to kill.

"She will erase herself in any match"

The hell are you even talking about anymore?

No, where do you get that from? She became nonexisted because she got erased. Someone dying only ever corrupted their data. And yes it does. How in the hell does being an intangible invisible being not harder to kill?

What she does. You do know she erases herself every time you try to insert her back, right?

 

[Elizhaa]

Technically is not enough

What are you on about? It doesn't remotly matter if she can come bacj willingly or not.
Again, if a character becomes immune to physical damage after getting slapped by zeus, we don't take it away because he doesn't like it.

It does matter if she has the feats otherwise, it is just speculation here.

We take it away if it is not back by evidence such scans from the story. In these case of Monika, she does not any showcasing it. The endings from erasure are evidence.

I look it up, nothing scans or videos shows she can.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The fact that she can keep acting and attack when erased means that she doesn't actually need her physical body in order to use her abilities, and can still be conscious even without her body. She isn't like the Emperor, who needs to actually fully die in order for his immortality to kick in.

Are you for real? Monika specifically wanted to die at that moment. It's nowhere near her normal mindset.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What are you talkin about nedge? You genuinly don't seem to know how any of the stuff works. It's not a problem, but you shouldn't state otherwise if you don't know better.

She has no feats that say otherwise. She gets erased, she gets beartbroken by you doing this, and while nonexistent she recreates the whole game world.

Ending from erasure? You mean the one where she keeps talking to you while eraed, and restores data while erased?

She litirally does it after you delete her.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The fact that she can keep acting and attack when erased means that she doesn't actually need her physical body in order to use her abilities, and can still be conscious even without her body. She isn't like the Emperor, who needs to actually fully die in order for his immortality to kick in.

Are you for real? Monika specifically wanted to die at that moment. It's nowhere near her normal mindset.

She can keep acting without her data. Does not mean that her data selferases itself when her body is killed in any shape or form.

Yeah. The mindset she permanently keeps after the fact. Again, the characters tend to start aith the mentality they have at the end of that key. Are you saying we should use start of game monika? At most you can argue for a different key, since both her actions changedrasticly, and she gains new powers.

 

[Jinsye]

You do know

Monika erasing herself actually causes her intense pain

Why would she start off with that

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

No, but it means that nothing that would affect her physical body would actually harm her and prevent her from using her abilities.

"Permanently" is like for a few minutes before nuking the universe.

You're exaggerating the "most recent" rule for keys by far. Characters who end up suicidal won't start all of their fights by committing suicide. That's not how it works.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Because she does in canon? Like, seriously, am I the only one that actually played around with the games gimmicks?

After you erase her, she realizes that life has no meaning for her, and erases herself if you copypaste her file back. After that, once sayori takes in her footsteps, she erases everything and keeps erasing it if you try to restore it.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Doing something canonically =/= will always do so at the start of every fight. I repeat what I said earlier, you're vastly exaggerating the rule about the most recent version of a character.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, but it means that nothing that would affect her physical body would actually harm her and prevent her from using her abilities.

"Permanently" is like for a few minutes before nuking the universe.

You're exaggerating the "most recent" rule for keys by far. Characters who end up suicidal won't start all of their fights by committing suicide. That's not how it works.

Exept incapacitation. And plenty hax could work on her while she has a body instead of when she doesn't.

That is optional. She recreates it, and if you get the happy ending, she leaves it be.

 

[The_Causality]

I know my proposition will be refused but...

Can we create a Nonexistent key for her? it seem to be the solution here...

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Doing something canonically =/= will always do so at the start of every fight. I repeat what I said earlier, you're vastly exaggerating the rule about the most recent version of a character.

It becomes her litiral mindset oermanently no matter which ending you get.

Again, at most you can argue a new key, since both her mindset changes, she gets new abilities and becomes more skilled with what she already had.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

If her lacking her entire body wasn't enough to prevent her from acting, then neither would simply damaging it.

Either she nukes it or she stays dead. But that's nowhere near a "standard" mindset for her that you should assume she is always under.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I know my proposition will be refused but...

Can we create a Nonexistent key for her? it seem to be the solution here...

Have I been ninja'd?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

There is absolutely no reasons for a key.

 

[Elizhaa]

There is absolutely no reasons for a key.

So, she is basically incapacited when nonexistent it seems.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

If her lacking her entire body wasn't enough to prevent her from acting, then neither would simply damaging it.

Either she nukes it or she stays dead. But that's nowhere near a "standard" mindset for her that you should assume she is always under.

Exept incapacitation is a thing. Also, invisibility and being erased from the past also are huge boons she lacks.

Why? It never changes after that, ever. Somw bad shit happens to her and she decides to go nihilistic on the world, why exactly can that not be a standard? Or are we assume that she is at the start of the game here?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

So, she is basically incapacited when nonexistent it seems.

No, she isn't in the slightest.

She litirally erases all of reality while nonexistent in the normal ending.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

There is absolutely no reasons for a key.

Exept a different mindset, new abilities and being better at what she already has?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Incapacitation is a thing only when the characters needs their brain or other parts of their body intact to fight. Which isn't the case here. Also she isn't even invisible at first.

Because she's either practically dead and stays that way (Good ending) or that her goal at this very moment is simply to nuke the world (Bad ending). It's not standard because of how brief she is in this mindset. Also because it's not the kind of mindset she'd have if she wanted to kill someone.

Also can you avoid triple posting?

 

[Jinsye]

>nee mindset

Really not important

>new abilities

Literally only NEP

>Being more competent

No

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yes it is, with hax. It's the whole reason she got an inconclusive with bill before he lost his precog. And she becomes properly invisible in a few seconds.

Firstly, I will enjoy you removing many of thunder mcqueens matches because he wouldn't kill himself when he wants someone else dead. Secondly, it's where she has most of her showings. Naruto went onetails for one fight in seasons, we still treat it as a legitimate thing.

Why? J am responding to different people, so I don't see the problem with it.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

>nee mindset

Really not important

>new abilities

Literally only NEP

>Being more competent

No

Yeah, a characters mindset is not important at all.

That' s like saying a dude getting reality warping is only one ability. She becomes invisible, intangibl and nonexistent in time (making most precognition useless).

Yes, she does get better at handling her abilities.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Dude, affecting Monika's body won't do anything. If the Bill match was wrong, then it was just wrong.

Thunder McQueen is ALWAYS suicidal. That's how he's always fought anyone in his series. He didn't just feel suicidal and then kill himself once, like here.

It clogs up the thread and just confuses it further when people answer to you while you're still posting messages.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Exept several hax activated through targetting her would work. Invisibility is a pretty good thing to have in a fight too, being impossible to info analyze, use precog on and even target is also really good.

It was a counter to your point saying "she wouldn't think like that while trying to kill someone", which would tecnically be true for thunder too in this case.

Exept I am responding to different people with different arguments. It would confuse if I brole up my response to you in tree parts, but that isn't the case.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Anything "targetting" her would be targetting only her physical body anyway, which wouldn't matter.

Except that's how Thunder kills people. That's how he's fought. That's why he's a threat. Meanwhile, Monika just kills herself at the end.

You do know that @ is a thing, right?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Hax is a thing. There are several characters that need to target to mindhax, that would still very much work. Also, all of those additional things that can change a lot of battles should be at the very least aknowledged, not just ignored.

He never fought, and he doesn't even know he kills people that way. He's just got lucky and got a stand that fits him. Also, monika erasing all of reality is a threat as well.

I'm on a phone and it just isn't able to roll up and get back to writing at the same time.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Seriously tough, why can't she get a new key? The fact that it "is" a permanent state (not like we don't make keys for temporal power ups), and the fact that she would stomp some of her victories through it is somewhat telling that it changes things. But the several boons I already mentioned on their own should be enough to make the point as well.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Her mind doesn't exist in her body, if she can keep acting without her body. It will be as easy/hard to mindhax her in either of her "forms".

Killing himself, thus killing the opponent, is how he "fights". He never fought in any other way, so that's how he's treated here.

Monika just randomly killing herself at the start of every match isn't a threat though. It's also useless. She has no reasons to do this if she wants to kill the opponent. And in a context that is outside of the one she erased herself in, she has no reasons at all to do it.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I see no reason to assume it normaly doesn't while she exists. She can separate ir and see everywhere, but still. And again, other points as well.

Yeah... and Madara only ever started with IT when he had the ability to, but we apparently don't accept that as a starting move.

Her erasing litirally everything, herself included, is. And I repeated the boons that come with nonexistence already. And she just doesn't want to exist after that, there is no reason why that would change without the player (the opposite more than anything).

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Do you have any reasons why her mind would suddenly become nonexistent instead of physical when Monika herself gets erased?

And I repeat how these boons aren't things. And how Monika being nonexistent is not AT ALL treated like a boost in-universe so even if that was true, Monika wouldn't do it to become stronger.

Monika doesn't want to exist anymore because she gets in the way of the player's enjoyment of the game. None of that matters when she's nowhere near the game or player. And AGAIN, this is no different from a character wanting to kill themselves at some point in the series. The only difference is that Monika can't do it permanently.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What? I am saying that there is no reason for her mind to be separated from her body as a standard, only being something she does when she wants to do. Her mind isn't nonexistent (you could argue that their minds are part of the crt files, but I don't fully agree with that either).

Can you qoute where tou explain how being immune to most pre and retrocognition and being invisible isn't a boon? And sayori becoming a crazy superpowered yandere is also rapresented as a negative thing, that is no reason to say that gaining extra powers isn't a boon as far as fighting goes.

Exept she doesn't want to live anymore period. I dount she was thinking of the player enjoying the game when she erased it after the sayori accident. And if the character wants to kill themselfs permanently suicidal for the rest of the series, then yes it is a thing.


And again, why can't it get it's own key? Like I said, her stomping some of her victories that way should be telling that it changes stuff.

 

[Genericstickman]

 

[Elizhaa]

Ricsi-viragosi, it does not change her stats

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Ricsi-viragosi, it does not change her stats

And? A tier change is far frome required to get a new key.

 

[Elizhaa]

No, Ricsi-viragosi, a key addition required statistics change at the very least in the "attack potency".

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That is plain wrong. Abilities can and do give more keys, stuff like Naruto kinda show that.

 

[Elizhaa]

That is plain wrong. Abilities can and do give more keys, stuff like Naruto kinda show that.

Which abilities?

 

[Elizhaa]

Speed Enhancement with Shunshin- its only a change speed so it is not it.

 

[Elizhaa]

Again, if it does not change the attacking potency at least then no keys.