Mondaiji Problem

[Daniel_Collinson]

According to your logic Goku and the Hakaishins are only Planet to Star Level then?. Because no one in Dragon Ball actually destroyed a Universe (or even a Solar System)... but we dont do that here, statements have ALWAYS been valid. There are some shit like the All Creation thing that is pure hyperbole, but not all statements are invalid. We should downgrade pretty much all the wikia if we stop using statements.
Gods destroying multiple stars in the first SAW is a fact, Gods creating their Outer Universes (when they were at full power though) the Huge Dragon being made from a Constellation is a fact, the Universe being created as a consequence of Shiroyasha's defeat against Alpha and Omega is a fact (and is pretty much stated that she was the origin of it), Shiroyasha desyroying Perseus Constellation is also a fact.

There are feats for the 3 digits and up that are way beyond Star Level, so Pest statement doesnt seem like hyperbole or outlier.

If all your argument will be "there are no feats", then:

1- Thats a lie

2- Go to other series and tell them statements are no valid too.

Actually those stars that destroyed in the first SAW is just one thing

Here's what they did in Gift Games:

"Gift Game is games of gods and demons that only those with power beyond common senses aka Gifts can participate. In Little Garden, this is an occupation on the same value as business, a prime example for Little Garden's cultural system --- This is only what is on the surface.

I'm sure that some of you have noticed, but this is simply pure lying. A type of convenient excuse.

Gift Games are trials of battles that gives form to inspections of history and phenomena of outer worlds, furthermore, its original form is proxy war. The history of outer worlds can be changed according to the outcome of these proxy wars.

In the first place, just as what Garol Gandack said in Volume 5, Gifts are powers that manifest in matching with the convergence point of eras aka "Paradigm Shift".

In other words, Gifts are a type of Balance System that the gods bestow for the history of mankind to move into the correct path. The reason why countless heroes, braves and historical prominent figures were summoned to Little Garden, is because the result of being summoned just like that during the retrieval of Gifts. All because leaving the Gifts at their original place would only bring trouble on future eras.

Rare as it may, there are also beings that were summoned from timelines that aren't convergence points. A large portion of them are humanoid, but there are also beings whose shape is completely out of Phylogenetic Tree. According to the records of the Divine Army, they called themselves the Cthulhu Pantheon (Cthulhu Mythos).

By testing countless worlds, histories and the pattern of phylogenetic tree, from the result of those retrievals, Little Garden created for itself its unique cultural system. In short, this is how the Gift Games become an occupation."

 

[ALRF]

By "Shiroyasha best stuff" i mean current Shiroyasha and not past Shiroyasha.

And it's okay with heavy words, i don't really care. As for your discord. I'll say no. I am not comfortable with debating on Discord

The only thing i can do for you is post pone this thread until you can freely talk without internet lag or inconvenience.

@Siegfried

Right. Did you read OP? Statements that are however consistent with each other could be used

I am not denying statements. I am denying statements that becomes inconsistent with other characters showings like Azi Dahaka being considered as some universal/star level threat when just evolved Azi having just gained enough power to tear off that seal that had mass of a star

Or Pest stating that you need Star levelu AP to kill her which Izayoi confirmed that he's capable of doing

Yet by feats alone, he's best one is through B.D.A to stop Hercules blow that are continental

Can't really talk about DBS or other series that i have no knowledge of, but i am sure these statements weren't inconsistent with each other or had no feats that completely invalid them

 

[Daniel_Collinson]

"I am not denying statements. I am denying statements that becomes inconsistent with other characters showings like Azi Dahaka being considered as some universal/star level threat when just evolved Azi having just gained enough power to tear off that seal that had mass of a star"

Forgot to remind

Azi got sealed 2/3 on his body, the 1st seal on his heads and the 2nd placed on his shoulders, causing his physcical strength to be NERFED:

""Azi Dahaka received the second seal in the battle from 200 years ago, causing his physical ability to deteriorate. Sensei thinks even with this, winning is impossible?"

"Ahh. Fundamentally as long as His Excellency has 'Avesta'', it can be evened out regardless of the difference in power. That is the 'Another Cosmology' of rivalry that is able to construct the dualism with the fastest speed. With that Gift, regardless of any opponent or situation, His Excellency's winning chances will not be lower than 50%.""

And here's how Azi's Avesta worked:

""If I remember correctly, it is the 'Another Cosmology' that copies the opponent's abilities exactly as it is to himself...right?"

"Yes. It is because of this Gift, that not matter how many Gods gathered, His Excellency cannot be defeated. The more enemy Gods there are, the stronger His Excellency becomes."

Also this is the Gift that extinguished the Garuda's flames. Not only the opponent's ability, but it also acts as a reverse mirror to cancel Gifts.

Imitating the reverse of opponent's Cosmology and integrating it into himself in limited usage.

It was ranked as one of the strongest mostly due to this 'Another Cosmology'.

"Because of this, even a Chief God level being will have a hard time defeating His Excellency. After all everything including the Gift is imitated."

"...Saying this might offend Sensei, but this is a cheating Gift that seems to be even more powerful than the one in the rumors. But if that really is the case, then nobody can win. Although it is to defeat the clones, if the more people there is, the stronger he becomes, then there is no method left. No need to even think about plans. The Host masters are all going to cry."

"No, one race is an exception. Also the weakness. I think His Excellency's 'Another Cosmology' is a Gift made specifically for that race."

The man known as Grimm raised his index finger and smiled.

"A type of Cosmology. Wrong, in this case calling it Chronology is better. The specie that shares the same Chronicle as Azi Dahaka, no matter how many it cannot be imitated."

"Is that the human race…?"

"Yes. Mah, it was originally human's pus, should be meaning something similar to disease/trouble). Only those that have inherited the blood of humans can squeeze pass 'Avesta''s loophole and challenge His Excellency. It's also because of this that His Highness' original body has a human foundation.

According to the legend, Azi Dahaka had the fate of being defeated by "the hero that saved humanity's future" appearing at the end of the world."

Then again, Azi have Avesta and Khvarenah, these are real trumpcards of Azi, NOT his physical strength alone.

"Yet by feats alone, he's best one is through B.D.A to stop Hercules blow that are continental"

=> Wrong, where did you read that Hercules only continent level? Hercules in LE 4 at that time are being mind controlled and author didnt even stated that he used his full strength. The only continent statement he have is his rod, Hercules's pole swing can destroy continent. Izayoi's BDA are first time used on Hercules, that's why Izayoi himself still not used it properly. The only thing about BDA is Izayoi turned himself into astral form and move faster than 6th Cosmic Velocity, that's it. We still got no clue about Hercules's true power like his Sun Authorities or how strong BDA is (Well LE 5 and LE 6 might said something about it but i havent read them yet cause translation problem)

And he just learned how to attack with BDA, so this is NOT his best feat

Also Discord is just one place, if you are uncomfortable then it's ok. But i hope that we can discuss in another one to get this done properly. If you are fine with that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Alfredo told me he's going to sleep now.

People need to behave and not bully each other in his absence.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I would really prefer if this doesn't go south here and there like last time, yes.

This discussion can more or less be active if Al wants it, I just don't want to have notifs come here and have the same tone for the past two or so hours ago.

 

[Daniel_Collinson]

I really want to have a fair discussion with him about this, tbh. Cause i got things to settle with him.

It would be better if i can debate with him outside, i can chat faster.

 

[Siegfried10]

Dragon Ball had no feats beyond Planet level, yet people approved Cell statement of being Solar System or even the Universal statements when Beerus and Goku never really destroy a Universe. Denying Mondaiji statements but not the others is being a hypocrite.

Pest statement of Star Level Durability is no contradiction. The Huge Dragon is already beyond Solar System for been made by a Constellation, the same with Shiroyasha for destroying Perseus Constellation. That without taking in consideration the gods creating their Outer Universes or Indra creating Little Garden when they were at full power (not affected by Omnipotent Paradox).

You are just nerfing based on the attack range falacy. Not all attacks need to destroy everything for it to not be inconsistent, thats rather common on shows where the setting is in just one place (Little Garden for Mondaiji, Earth for DB, Britannia for Nanatsu, and i can keep going).

Dont pretend that you have never watched DB because i seriously cant believe that, and even if you havent pretty much everyone here has. We all have seen shows were statements are more impresive than feats, yet they dont deny them like you do in here.

There are already a few feats quite above Star Level, so no, Pest statement is indeed valid. Your argument is basically the attack range falacy. Here dude:

"An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces."

Thats the definition of the wikia of Attack Potency. Now then, leaving the Fallacy apart you could argue about Pest been an outlier but then again, 3 Digits have feats above Solar System. So no, its not an outlier either.

 

[Drcl97]

Aren't "Another cosmologies" literally universes in another shape? this should put all those who have an Another Cosmology on at least that level.

Also, what density and mass even have to do with power and durability? Azi dahaka has the mass of a continent so he should have continent level durability? seriously? that's just like saying that current Goku should be tier 10 because he has the mass of a normal human....

Mass and density doesn't have anything to do with durability or power. And Leticia in dragon form is the entire cosmology of humans in the shape of a dragon, so when she became that chain that binded Azi Dahaka she had a durability far far higher than her star level mass.

 

[Siegfried10]

The Huge Dragon is made from Ophiuchus Constellation, so Solar Dragon too. Azi Dahaka also had a seal that greatly reduced his physical strenght (reason why he never even try punching anyone).

This the quote about Another Cosmology

""Another Cosmology" is the secret of pantheons. Or should I say that these worlds - universes themselves built the pantheons. The Norse pantheon's Asgard, the Buddhism's Three Thousand Worlds, and the Zoroastrianism's dualism of good and evil, they are no exception. To us, the "Ouroboros" "Another Cosmology" is also our final trump card."

 

[ALRF]

As you know, in Little Garden, Azi Dahaka is a three headed dragon. But do you know Azi Dahaka is in Outer World?


Azi Dahaka in Outer World is literally a future where humanity is destroyed because of misuse of Nuclear Weapons. Literally that (Eschatology shit because of NCBR weapons and how humanity can trigger it and other funky stuff Mondaiji has)


Know Maxwell? That pervert who stalks Willa? He's literally the manifestation of Maxwell's Demon


Little Garden is a world where concepts and events in the outside world are manifested in a physical form


And to be summoned in Little Garden, you have to be observed from multiple points of timelines and at the same time (Paradigm Shift).


This Huge Dragon who embodies a constellation is just a Dragon whose basis of existence was said constellation. It has no use in powerlevelu (contrary to popular belief that stems from a certain respect thread you guys are using. But eh, no surprise there)

• >Perseus being nuked by Shiroyasha

Right. Why don't you give me the quote of her nuking Perseus Constellation? You'll not find one (Unless you're gonna use the one in that respect thread which is obviously out of context...just like the many things said "translator" used as out of context). Constellations are revolved around LG cities. When Perseus lost to No Name, so was their constellation

Nice example of using Goku to compare him to Azi. When DB author doesn't give two ***** about common sense and physics. Goku took a punch from Jiren, same guy who's ki alone was shaking the World of Void which is of infinite distance.

Mass is related to durability, or are you telling me you can punch your planet?

But since you'll bring other fictions to try and debunk me.Let us see the context of this:

• Izayoi punches Azi

• Izayoi gets injured

• Narration and Izayoi HIMSELF, states that his mass/density is utterly humongous for having a 3 meters body

Mind you, punching is related to kinetic. So what does that mean? Izayoi punches cannot produce energy capable of overpowering someone who has mass of a continent inside him

As for DBS Universal feat, it wasn't even a statement but a feat that was gonna happen from clash between Beerus of Goku punches, generating energy that will destroy the universe, reason why it didn't happen was something the profiles already explains through a link in a nice detailed blog. And heck, we even get visuals of the universe about to be busted.

And yes, i didn't watch DBS. Got a problem with that?

And for Izayoi claiming that he could have destroyed Pest only for Kuro to stop him cause of "Gift Game". She literally stopped him because his hand was injured

And in Volume 3, Izayoi "star destroying punches" couldn't destroy Baron dimension that supposedly needed an attack that could destroy a star.

Oh yeah, the quote about the First Sun Authority War. Can you give me the original quote? I don't have Last Embryo in me (Jap ofc) and i don't want to use that respect thread. And context for it please, i don't want a small quote like that

After all, that's the same respect thread which said Azi Dahaka wings have unlimited force from the ÕçÂÕêâÒü½õ©çÕèøÒéÆÞ¥╝ÒéüÒéïõ©ëÚá¡Ú¥ì


When ÕçÂÕêâÒü½õ©çÕèøÒéÆÞ¥╝ÒéüÒéïõ©ëÚá¡Ú¥ì is:


õ©ëÚá¡Ú¥ì = Three Headed Dragon


Þ¥╝ÒéüÒéï= To put


õ©ç= All


Õèø= strength , power


Õêâ= Blade


ÕçÂ= Evil, Wicked

You can read it properly right?

Oh yeah, there's also translating the particles stuff in Little Garden as multiple multiverses

Multiverses

When the accurate translation would be countless parallel universes.

Or how this same respect thread comes from the guy who couldn't read a basic sentence which compared the conceptual nature of black magic to the current weapons of science or some shit (They were nanomachines). Ended with him proclaiming this nanomachines are conceptual

Or his biggest shame in history. Admitting that "TL of Mondaiji" is through translating from chinese to vietnam then translating to English while editing it

*Is this some kind a freaking comedy show or what? Did the google translation have the phrase "Cedict or Babylon"? The Cedict and Babylon are the software + program used to translate Chinese into English, in Vietnam we used a tool called "Quicktrans" to translate Chinese into Vietnamese, and after that directly translate into English

Huh...so much for revolutionary translation. If you're gonna debate Mondaiji with me, use Baka Tsuki or JP Mondaiji

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah Alfredo is 100% correct.

 

[ALRF]

I'll post again. I'll just ignore any post related to SB Mondaiji respect thread

I don't want to bother with a cluster **** of chinese to vietnam to english

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Have to agree with Al here.

Really the more this topic gets talked about with use of TL's and comparisons, the more it gets plainly obvious why this series keeps getting questioned and deleted off of here over and over in the past few yrs for what Everlasting explained to me.

Matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this never gets resolved and doesn't come back simply because of translation issues.

Edit: We should, however, just ignore any posting from that place. Regardless of how OoC it has on info there, it's better to focus the problem that's here rather than bringing mention of it there to here. Probably already had some bad blood here or there in the last thread and even now (though lesser) so it's better to just focus this and not lose our cool anymore or try to keep calm as much as possible.

 

[ALRF]

Oh yeah, Mondaiji Respect thread translator is also famous for resurrecting one of the most wanked feats in Demonbane. Klein Bottle being a dark tower like structure (universe atop universe for infinity)

I can go more deep on how just bad this guy is to use as a source of info but i'll stop. Summary is that thread is anything but trustworthy

I'll not be on this wiki for two weeks now due to busy schedule but i intend on finishing this thread. See ya all till then

 

[Daniel_Collinson]

Was planning to fap but will stop now since ALRF finally replied.

Now, where are we?

"As you know, in Little Garden, Azi Dahaka is a three headed dragon. But do you know Azi Dahaka is in Outer World?

Azi Dahaka in Outer World is literally a future where humanity is destroyed because of misuse of Nuclear Weapons. Literally that (Eschatology shit because of NCBR weapons and how humanity can trigger it and other funky stuff Mondaiji has)"

=> The heck is Azi Dahaka in outer world? Azi Dahaka and Dystopia are 2 side of a same coin, they are literally born from Eschatology that related with Perpeptual Motion Machine, Furthermore, Izayoi's spetaculate that 3-headed lizard related with NBCR have been denied by Indra himself. Seriously, you don't even read whole series carefully and you come up with this?

"This Huge Dragon who embodies a constellation is just a Dragon whose basis of existence was said constellation. It has no use in powerlevelu"

=> That freaking Huge Dragon is summoned from Ophiuchus Sun Authority, not the same shit like other Pure-Blood Dragons that possessed cosmologies themselves or how Leticia got Sun Authority BUFFED by Shiroyasha.

"Nice example of using Goku to compare him to Azi. When DB author doesn't give two ***** about common sense and physics. Goku took a punch from Jiren, same guy who's ki alone was shaking the World of Void which is of infinite distance.

Mass is related to durability, or are you telling me you can punch your planet?

But since you'll bring other fictions to try and debunk me.Let us see the context of this:

• Izayoi punches Azi
• Izayoi gets injured
• Narration and Izayoi HIMSELF, states that his mass/density is utterly humongous for having a 3 meters body

Mind you, punching is related to kinetic. So what does that mean? Izayoi punches cannot produce energy capable of overpowering someone who has mass of a continent inside him"

=> Then why normal people will break their friggin' hands off if they punch guys like Superman? Wasn't Superman's weight is just as same as average man? Or like you said? Mass is equivalent with density?

And did i already said on comments above that:

1) Izayoi is weak in that state, moreover he could have DIE at any moment when he was facing against Azi Dahaka

2) His punch is random, no tactic at all

"And for Izayoi claiming that he could have destroyed Pest only for Kuro to stop him cause of "Gift Game". She literally stopped him because his hand was injured

And in Volume 3, Izayoi "star destroying punches" couldn't destroy Baron dimension that supposedly needed an attack that could destroy a star."

=> The star-destroying punches have been proof that it was a hoax and mistranslation from volume 8. And in volume 3 or volume 2 author never stated that his punches can destroy stars either. My god ALRF, if you try to downplay why don't you go up with a better attempt?

"After all, that's the same respect thread which said Azi Dahaka wings have unlimited force from the ÕçÂÕêâÒü½õ©çÕèøÒéÆÞ¥╝ÒéüÒéïõ©ëÚá¡Ú¥ì

When ÕçÂÕêâÒü½õ©çÕèøÒéÆÞ¥╝ÒéüÒéïõ©ëÚá¡Ú¥ì is:

õ©ëÚá¡Ú¥ì = Three Headed Drago

Þ¥╝ÒéüÒéï= To put

õ©ç= All

Õèø= strength , power

Õêâ= Blade

ÕçÂ= Evil, Wicked

You can read it properly right?"

=> Yes, we can

In fact, he can too

"Oh yeah, there's also translating the particles stuff in Little Garden as multiple multiverses

Multiverses

When the accurate translation would be countless parallel universes."

=> Oh really?

What Japanese raw said: Õ¢╝Òü»ÕñÜÒüÅÒü«þÑ×Ú£èÒü«õ©èÒü½þ½ïÒüñþÑ×ÒÇàÒü«þÄïÒüáÒüîÒÇüµºÿÒÇàÒü¬ÕñÜÕàâÕ«çÕ«ÖÒüîþ▓ÆÕ¡ÉÒü«µºÿÒü½þ®ìÒü┐ÚçìÒü¬ÒüúÒüªÒüäÒéìÒüôÒü«þ«▒Õ║¡ÒüºÒü»ÒüØÒü«ÚÖÉÒéèÒüºÒü»Òü¬ÒüäÒÇé

What the Chinese translation said: Þü¢Õê░ÕìüÕà¡Õñ£Úéúµ»½þäíµÄ®Úú¥þÜäÞ®▒´╝îÕô¬µÇòµÿ»þªªÚûÇÚçïÕñ®õ╣ƒõ©ìÕ¥ùõ©ìÞïªþ¼æÒÇéþó║Õ»ª´╝îÚÇÖõ╣ƒþ«ùµÿ»õ©ìÞâ¢ÕáéÕá鵡úµ¡úÕòÅÕç║õ¥åþÜäÕòÅÚíîÒÇéõ╗ûÚøûµÿ»þ½ïõ║Äþäíµò©þÑ×ÚØêõ╣ïõ©èþÜäþ£¥þÑ×õ╣ïþÄï´╝îõ¢åÕ£¿ÚÇÖÕÇïþö▒ÕÉäþ¿«ÕñÜÕàâÕ«çÕ«ÖÕªéþ▓ÆÕ¡ÉÞê¼Õáåþ®ìÞÁÀõ¥åþÜäþ«▒Õ║¡õ©¡Õëçµ£¬Õ┐àժ鵡ñÒÇé

And here's what Frozen's translation said: Hearing Izayoi's straightforward question, even Mikado Tokuteru could only laugh bitterly. True, this was not something that could be asked upright. Although he was the King of Gods that stood above countless Divine Beings, that was not the case in this Little Garden that was piled up by countless multiverses like particles.

Google translation aka Machine translation also translated them as "multi-dimensional universes" btw

Now, where's your "countless parallel universes" again?

Or are you telling me that his translation is wrong?

"Or how this same respect thread comes from the guy who couldn't read a basic sentence which compared the conceptual nature of black magic to the current weapons of science or some shit (They were nanomachines). Ended with him proclaiming this nanomachines are conceptual

Or his biggest shame in history. Admitting that "TL of Mondaiji" is through translating from chinese to vietnam then translating to English while editing it

*Is this some kind a freaking comedy show or what? Did the google translation have the phrase "Cedict or Babylon"? The Cedict and Babylon are the software + program used to translate Chinese into English, in Vietnam we used a tool called "Quicktrans" to translate Chinese into Vietnamese, and after that directly translate into English"

=> Did you just....use the old thread that Revenger bashed Mist2121 for being so dumb and stupid about that multiverses part?

And now you want to use that old trick to downplay Mondaiji, towards the people who ACTUALLY have read Mondaiji from A to Z? With the old "translation" shit problem that came from 2 years ago?

"Huh...so much for revolutionary translation. If you're gonna debate Mondaiji with me, use Baka Tsuki or JP Mondaiji"

=> You mean the lackluster translation on BT that have bunch of mistranslations as well as bullshit coming from it that even Frozen himself admitted and there's no way not in a million years he will re-translate them from scratch, plus you even stated that right in your first post and now you want us to use it debate with you?

Error 404, brain.exe have stopped functioning

So this is conclusion for ALRF:

1) Never read Mondaiji carefully, or actually NEVER read it at all.

2) Denied high-end feats and being double standard while using low-end feats to judge them despite how much errors that we pointed out in his statements.

3) Let the personal-hate and envy with the translator consumed himself, ignored all scans as well as translations that given to him

You know Alfred, at first i thought i could reasonable with you at peace but after see your comment i immediately change my mind. You said you don't mind heavy words, correct? Now i dont holding back anymore, as long as it didnt violate the rules here.

I have to say, you lost, ALRF. With the clear edvidence from the RT itself. No, the exact moment when you typed that countless universes part clearly marked your lost against Mondaiji's feat.

If you want to have a fair discussion personally and outside this, i will always welcome you.

See you in the next one or 2 weeks later.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Was planning to fap but will stop now since ALRF finally replied.

What even?

 

[The_Causality]

Highschool DxD

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Highschool DxD

Idk how that answers my question.

 

[Daniel_Collinson]

Dont mind about it, im just replying this thread

Already finished the reply so i will continue what im planning to do in first sentence

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Stop descending into personal attacks directed towards ALRF, that is seriously uncalled for and wholly unnecessary. Learn to respect those with different opinions.

 

[FateAlbane]

I'll live and die wondering why some people in VS Debating seem to have the firm belief that the formula of "acting like their age divided in half + being generally sort of a douche" makes their points any more valid.

Breaking news: It doesn't. It just makes the discussion toxic.

Before trying to sound smart, I feel like generally trying to sound like you're attempting to make a point across instead of starting Flame War Infinity+1 should be the standard.

But alas.

 

[Daniel_Collinson]

Hey, my comment never said anything that personally-attacking ALRF at all, i just point out how ridiculous his downplaying towards Mondaiji verse is with my clear edvidence right there, in fact i even asked him to have a fair discussion with me outside, if he wanted to.

Moreover ALRF himself said above that he didnt mind if i use heavy words. Of course, i could do that but only in a limited extend as long as it didnt violate the rules here.

And this just give me a confusion, in his comment i can clearly saw he expressed himself his hatred towards the translator of Mondaiji RT and he actually attacking him, on personal level (by calling him a "cluster ****"). But apparently no one seems to bothering about his statements.

How weird, isn't it?

What i mean is all my comment is in the principal of debating, i never let it become flame war or being personal. If i made a mistake, feel free to point out so i can fix it and forgive me if i truly attacked him.

 

[FateAlbane]

I mean, my reply didn't mention names - yet you took that to mean you.

I'm not following the entirety of this but even if ALRF did act in any similar manner somewhere in this thread as you claim, mistakes don't justify any other mistakes of the same kind - even less so if they're aimed directly towards the people involved with the discussion.

If you think something sounded offensive, you could have adressed it instead of jumping to do the exact same thing in the spiral of flame wars. This never helped - quite the contrary, discussions around it turning out like this is but one of the reasons why this verse has got the infamous label of toxic. Instead of resolving, if arguments are thrown that way against one another, what you get is derailment and the thread devolving into a mess where the actual matter stops being adressed or actually solved.

 

[FateAlbane]

That said I'm sorry if I derailed, myself.

I'd just rather have the thread keep things civil so all the parts involved (and the verse itself) can actually solve it to the best for all sides since I'm neutral on the result here.

 

[Daniel_Collinson]

I mean, my reply didn't mention names - yet you took that to mean you.
I'm not following the entirety of this but even if ALRF did act in any similar manner somewhere in this thread as you claim, mistakes don't justify any other mistakes of the same kind - even less so if they're aimed directly towards the people involved with the discussion.

If you think something sounded offensive, you could have adressed it instead of jumping to do the exact same thing in the spiral of flame wars. This never helped - quite the contrary, discussions around it turning out like this is but one of the reasons why this verse has got the infamous label of toxic. Instead of resolving, if arguments are thrown that way against one another, what you get is derailment and the thread devolving into a mess where the actual matter stops being adressed or actually solved.

Actually my reply is toward Matthew tbh, i think he said directly to me though

 

[Daniel_Collinson]

And yeah, my comment is pretty follow the standard here, i never attacking anyone personally and always have edvidence to backup my arguments.

 

[Siegfried10]

Lets start with Azi Dahaka... He never destroyed the world in the future, that is merely legend.

Nuclear Weapons being Azi's Escathology... wrong.

"Sakamaki Izayoi. Regarding the spirit status of Aŝi Dakāha being a weapon of mass destruction, us Heavenly Army can decisively deny. Because the inventor of that weapon of mass destruction had already left the authority with me."

"If those inventors belonged to a dedicated God Pantheon, then the God Pantheon can safekeep for them, or monitor them. Hence I can assert. NBCR weapon is unrelated to Aŝi Dakāha."

Read Volume 12 again, the conversation between Indra and Lapko. Azi Dahaka's Escathology comes from Third Perpetual Motion Machine. And he never destroyed humanity, its merely a legend of him destroying 1/3 of the world and a hero opposing him.

Zahhāk, was talking about the king that was destined to become Demon Lord Aŝi Dakāha in Persian Poem. He who was fancied by Evil God used treachery to obtain the crown, grew the pair of wicked dragons from it's shoulders and used fear to control its citizens. Although the hero of that era defeated the Demon Lord, he could not kill it no matter what. At that time Angel (Jibril) appeared and told him 'The time to exterminate this Absolute Evil has not arrived', and used the sealing method to seal it inside the gigantic peak. Then, in order to bring the end to the world after the Demon Lord resurrected, it destroyed one third of the world. The one that would appear to resist this eschatology was none other than Hero destined to save the future.

Azi Dahaka is merely an existence any human can become with the right conditions. He is not an event lol.

"That's right. We had deducted it to be an authority holder like Zahh─ük, but that at best is just admonition. As long as there is Super Weapon and authority, adding some evil intention… Any human can be corrupted into A┼¥i Dak─üha."

Regarding the Huge Dragon, he doesn't embodies a Constellation... he is the materialization of the Constellation.

---The materialization of the Zodiac, the huge Dragon that appeared from the Sun's elliptical orbit in the Heavens……was returning to the Sea of Stars. As the enormous body started to become translucent, the regal light carved upon its heart started to become visible.

Its explicitly said that he is the materialization of Ophiucus, that he comes from the sea of starts and that he was returning there. So yeah, the Huge Dragon IS made from Ophiuchus Constellation.

Perseus Constellation didn't just "dissapeared" because they were defeated, but because they were exiled by Thousand Eyes. The Constellation was taken down by Thousand Eyes... which means, Shiroyasha.

"Similar to the Geocentric model that the world of Little Garden adopted…… all the rules were to revolve around the cities of Little Garden. The Community of [Perseus] which had been defeated by our comrades had since been exiled from [Thousand Eyes]. Hence they would have to withdraw from that patch of sky in the end." Izayoi and the others were stumped for words. "—Huh……Could it be that you meant……the constellation will disappear from the sky……?" In that instant, a flash of bright light filled the skies. Perseus that was originally in the skies with the other constellations— had vanished with the meteor shower.

Kuro Usagi confirms that Thousand Eyes were the ones responsible from taking down the Constellation and the meteor shower.

"The meteor shower tonight is also a blessing given by [Thousand Eyes] to mark our Community's revival in activities. Whether it is to make a wish to the meteor shower or to enjoy the moment with everyone, let us all just have fun today alright?"

Izayoi and the girls were left speechless by the demonstration of power from Thousand Eyes. So no, the constellation didnt just disappeared by art of magic lol.

Durability =/= Mass

Basically Izayoi and every human sized individual (Ichigo, Naruto, Luffy) should be peak human with that logic. Mass only gives you a minimun durability, not a maximum. Azi can have continental mass and star level durability, just like Naruto can have human level mass and country level durability. This is a big and ridiculous bullshit, to the point were is actually funny.

And no, there is actually no universe level feat in the Goku vs Beerus. There is a statement of them being able to destroy the universe with their clash, and a statemente of the energy sphere being capable of destroying the universe... but was the universe actually destroyed? Nop, it wasn't. Following your logic of "statements shouldn't be taken in consideration" then DB has actually no Universe level feats in that fight, but then again, everyone took the statements valid and DB is accepted as Universal. Statements are taken in consideration for this wiki (another example, Etherion being Country level in FT), not taking the ones from Mondaiji is being a hypocrite.

I have problems believing you actually read Mondaiji...

Izayoi had psychological seal that didnt allow him to use his real strenght, that'ss the reason why he didn't destroy the pocket dimension.

"I mean that, Izayoi-chan, you are a very boring fellow. Oh my, it sure is such a waste and pity to the point that it makes one surprised, shocked and very disappointed in your entirety. Haiz. And here I heard that you were a much more interesting person. Although you might have a strong and abnormal strength, it is clear that you have already lost the method to release it. Or should I say restricted by your mental seals---Let me say it bluntly. You have become too used to this world and I can't let you clear the game in this condition you know?"

In order to prevent Izayoi from destroying this world with his power. Canaria had utilized the method of showing him the beauty of the world to seal Izayoi's strength.

Baron was actually pretty confident that if Izayoi released his seal and used his full power he could break Guniee.

"Then, what do you want me to do?! You megane bastard!" "Just like what I just said! Use a punch that can shatter the star! So long as you use your Gift, leaving this place shouldn't be a problem for you!" Hearing the crazy request and the strange term, Izayoi was taken aback. "……Gift?" "That's right! The strength that you currently wield is at most the top layer of its full potential!"

---Other than the first cry that he had when he was brought into the world, he had never had the chance to use his full strength. For Izayoi, the current world was one that was a fragile and dreamlike shelter to him. However, he was now told by the other party that he can let out his full strength without holding back, and even telling him to use a dormant power that even Izayoi himself did not know of.

Narrator confirms that Izayoi had never used his full strenght up to that point. Izayoi only awakened his real strenght and the power dormant inside of him at the very end, when he activated Another Cosmology for the very first time.

Regarding the first SAW, there isn't much context. They are explaining what it is, and the aftermaths of the first one. For the japanese raw let me ask frozen about it, you will have to wait for that though.

 

[ALRF]

There seems to be some modification on my schedule, so i could post at least something now haha

We know humanity are capable of triggering Eschatology and we know NBCR weapons have the potential to do so

That's why there's something called Authority of WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction) which is based around Divine Spirits (Or was it Star Spirits? Can't remember exactly which species but that's not the important part) managing these weapons to stop complete destruction

• NBCRÕàÁÕÖ¿Òü«õ©╗µ¿®ÒÇéÕñºÚçÅþá┤ÕúèÕàÁÕÖ¿Òü«ÚûïþÖ║ÞÇàÒüïÒéëõ©╗µ¿®ÒéÆÚáÉÒüïÒüúÒüªÒüäÒéïÒÇé

That's why Azi Dahaka isn't related to NBCR Weapons since they cannot trigger Eschatology because of said authority as Indra stated…

However NBCR do play a part in Third Perpetual Motion, for the sole reason they were recreated as part of TPM


This is where TPM would come in to play, as the incorrect usage of it (In form of a weapon that lead to global destruction and world ruin)

Õ¢╝ÒüîþÁÂÕ»¥µé¬Òü¿ÒüùÒüªÚíòþÅ¥ÒüùÒüƒþÉåþö▒Òü»ÒÇüµé¬µäÅÒüéÒéﵿ®ÕèøÞÇàÒüîµ░©õ╣൮ƒÚûóÒéÆÕ£░þÉâþÆ░ÕóâÒéÆþá┤ÕúèÒüùÕ░¢ÒüÅÒüÖÒÇüÒüñÒü¥Òéèõ©ûþòîÒéƵ╗àÒü╝ÒüÖÞÂàÕàÁÕÖ¿Òü¿ÒüùÒüªõ¢┐ÒüúÒüƒÒüƒÒéüÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé

This is how Azi emerged as Absolute Evil

This is also how both Azi and Dystopia manifested, from an event that is misuse of weapon that resulted in world destruction

Òü¬ÒüèÒÇüÒâçÒéúÒé╣ÒâêÒâöÒéóÒüèÒéêÒü│ÒéóÒé©Òâ╗ÒâÇÒâÅÒâ╝Òé½ÒüîÚíòþÅ¥ÒüùÒüƒÒü«Òü»µ░©õ╣൮ƒÚûóÒü«ÚûïþÖ║ÒüèÒéêÒü│ÚûôÚüòÒüúÒüƒõ¢┐Òüäµû╣ÒüîÕăÕøáÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé

Incorrect usage and development of Third Perpetual Motion Machine

Also, Azi's Khvaerspodjpsokdpsokopcsdkpo (I hate spelling it) is born from this incorrect usage of Third Perpetual Motion Machine as a weapon that led to global destruction.

õ╝صë┐Òüºõ©ûþòîÒü«õ©ëÕêåÒü«õ©ÇÒéƵ╗àÒü╝ÒüÖÒü¿õ╝ØÒüêÒéëÒéîÒüªÒüìÒüƒÚûâþå▒þ│╗µ£ÇÕ╝ÀÒü«õ©ÇµÆâÒÇéþÁéµ£½Þ½ûÒü«Õ╝òÒüìÚçæÒéÆÕ╝òÒüÅÕèøÒéÆÕżÕûÜÒüùÒÇüþéÄþå▒Òü¿ÒüùÒüªµë▒Òüåµü®µüÁÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇéµ░©õ╣൮ƒÚûóÒéÆÕ£░þÉâþÆ░ÕóâÒéÆþá┤ÕúèÒüùÒüñÒüÅÒüÖÞÂàÕàÁÕÖ¿Òü¿ÒüùÒüªõ¢┐þö¿ÒüùÒüƒÒüôÒü¿Òü½ÒéêÒéèþöƒÒü¥ÒéîÒüƒµü®µüÁÒÇé

Also, i never even stated that NBCR WERE Azi's origin, i was very vague on my post. But it's fine to misunderstand it considering i wasn't precise on my point,so my bad here

Oh and yeah, Izayoi could defeat Azi Dahaka only because he's related to Third Perpetual Motion Machine. Izayoi, as either Subject of it or developer of it, will also save the world (He's on the path of subject for now)

I'll be honest, i don't know why you're linking me your talk (? it's you i assume) with Frozen about the quote. And honestly, the screenshot is out of context. Did you show him the entire sentence? Did you tell him how others TL'd in another way? Even then, i wouldn't care because Frozen doesn't mean anything to me

And i'll say it here, even if Frozen says "infinite power" is legitimate, i'll not even consider his words not one bit. I do not believe his TLs are accurate (better than BT but not 100% accurate). Also two japanese speakers (Trexalfa and Kamunagara) stated in a previous Mondaiji thread that quote doesn't mean a single bit infinite/unlimited power. It's kinda weird one side is saying one thing and the other another thing entirely, i'll just leave this entirely up to the others, not gonna even go on an endless cycle debating it again

And again, Azi Dahaka who sits at "star level" to whatever higher if we go by your scaling, yet his evolution allowed him to gain "arms to shatter the stars"?

About Izayoi, B.D.A and him using it for the first time...so what? It is mentioned that he's stats augmented IIRC and Hercules being mind controlled doesn't mean anything like having his strength halved or holding back. Naturally, Sun Authority for Hercule doesn't mean much. While it's true he has it, we don't know what he can do with it, and even narration so far he's stated his continent busting level.

The quote about countless multiverses is µºÿÒÇàÒü¬ÕñÜÕàâÕ«çÕ«Ö

µºÿÒÇà = various

ÕñÜÕàâ = pluralistic (as in whatever word attached to it would be plural)

Õ«çÕ«Ö= Universe

I can literally translate this as Various universes.

And an alternative form of tagen uchuu is multiverse which wouldn't really flow out with various

So why in all god's sake would i pluralize something that is pluralized?

Again, i never considered Frozen TL to be God's work. Never will.

Google Translation saying its multi-dimensional universes already shows you how unreliable Google Translation is for the most time, because they read ÕñÜÕàâ separatly, which would give multi-dimensions. Dunno why you gave me Google Translation in the first place

Dunno how different is embodying something is to being the manifestation of it but okay. Still doesn't mean much. We have a few characters who are the manifestation of the Earth itself, yet they don't get a Tier 5 rating for so, even if they are directly tied to it and destruction of them means destruction of Earth . Huge Dragon being summoned by Sun Authority doesn't mean much either. Huge Dragon is related to the constellation after all so of course of we go by verse mechanics, he would be summoned by these authorities.

Said Awakened power that Baron was talking about was none other than Izayoi's Aurora Pillar/Another Cosmology

Though he didn't know how to use it properly so he just told him to swing his fists. It doesn't refer to his physical punches

To draw out the power from himself, Sakamaki Izayoi, this was the best posture. "Just like that……You still aren't able to utilize your own Gift huh? Then just desperately swing your fists for now ." [Baron Croix] spread his arms as the swallow tailed coat fluttered behind him with the wind while he continued to scrutinize Izayoi's actions. "Take this……Baron Croix!" At that moment, a beam of light appeared from Izayoi's hand that tore through the Heavens and the Earth. This beam of light easily pierced through the shell of the world that was still shrinking and seemed to be the pillar that was holding up the world that was moving towards imminent destruction.

Durability = Mass

Telling me durability isn't related to mass is basically telling me you're capable of destroying the entire planet, or really anything that's more heavier than you with mere punches

Most fiction ignore this logic. However, in the context of Azi Dahaka vs Izayoi, Izayoi broke his hands because of Azi's mass which was just continent (Quote above).

No matter how much you use the comparison of Luffy, Naruto or really anyone else, it wouldn't matter. Simply because those series never used durability as being relevant to mass (which should be actually), but again fiction ignores that for the most point

But in the context of that quote? It is 100% that durability = mass in that part, and you can bring all kinds of fictions to me, and it wouldn't matter.

Goku and Beerus were generating energy that kept shaking the entire universe, with said energy getting bigger through each clash, then we get statements about how they would have destroyed the universe. The reason why they didn't is explained in the fight, the energy that would destroyed the universe is nullified or whatever. And hey, we get even visuals about the shockwaves and stuff shaking. Mind you we even have a new feat of Jiren shaking an infinite realm, so its quite consistent.

Anyhow, this is probably gonna end up in a cycle of never ending arguments so i'll just rest my case here and leave others to judge on what they think it's more accurate.

I don't believe in everyone being above Tier 6 bar some exceptions (Shioryasha, characters who have abilities that amps their stats and the like that makes them stronger than they should be normally, ect)

 

[Daniel_Collinson]

Just found your reply, after read them for while, i have to say that i'm very....dissapointed.

First is myself, for letting you fool me so easilly, and 2nd is you for do this thing to other people.

Move other statements aside, i will focus these and these only, no more

"I'll be honest, i don't know why you're linking me your talk (? it's you i assume) with Frozen about the quote. And honestly, the screenshot is out of context. Did you show him the entire sentence? Did you tell him how others TL'd in another way? Even then, i wouldn't care because Frozen doesn't mean anything to me

And i'll say it here, even if Frozen says "infinite power" is legitimate, i'll not even consider his words not one bit. I do not believe his TLs are accurate (better than BT but not 100% accurate). Also two japanese speakers (Trexalfa and Kamunagara) stated in a previous Mondaiji thread that quote doesn't mean a single bit infinite/unlimited power. It's kinda weird one side is saying one thing and the other another thing entirely, i'll just leave this entirely up to the others, not gonna even go on an endless cycle debating it again"

=> First is about the quote of Azi's shadow blades. I think you completely misunderstood what my point and Frozen is. It's just an exaggeration thing, translate them into "infinite power" is fine with that part, i mean there's even explaination about it too, either way both are fine, either unlimited power/use all of his power, same shit. In fact i never take that sentence seriously given how the Japanese quote and Chinese translation work.

Second:

Seriously, ALRF? You? Bring that argument about Frozen's translation up?

No one here ever praise Frozen as God-like or call his translation perfect. No, there's nothing such as perfect translation here, especially those are just fan-translation themselves. Do you even realize nothing can ever be translated as 100% accuracy? Still don't mean the accuracy can't go up to 99.99%. What kind of mentally-challenge idiot would even come up "not-100% accuracy = wrong"? Or maybe....you are one of them too? No offense here.

Also, Frozen and Rezen, one of Mondaiji-translator in Russian, he also knew Japanese too, in fact he just bought LE 6 and read them few days ago, they both are acquaintances. Don't tell me Frozen and Rezel not work with each other to come up with a good translation as they can afford to us. He translated Vol 11, Vol 12 very good and now hold LE series, what about you then?

I also find it quite hillarious that you only noticed this part while ignoring other feats from 3-Digit or 4-Digit, but that's not the problem anymore since we got something even moreserious down here.

"The quote about countless multiverses is µºÿÒÇàÒü¬ÕñÜÕàâÕ«çÕ«Ö

µºÿÒÇà = various

ÕñÜÕàâ = pluralistic (as in whatever word attached to it would be plural)

Õ«çÕ«Ö= Universe

I can literally translate this as Various universes.

And an alternative form of tagen uchuu is multiverse which wouldn't really flow out with various

So why in all god's sake would i pluralize something that is pluralized?

Again, i never considered Frozen TL to be God's work. Never will.

Google Translation saying its multi-dimensional universes already shows you how unreliable Google Translation is for the most time, because they read ÕñÜÕàâ separatly, which would give multi-dimensions. Dunno why you gave me Google Translation in the first place"

=> Here's the funny thing about it, ALRF

In Kajiri Kamui Kagura, Mausoleum of Gods chapter, the part of Eigo Kaiki/Mercurius/4th Heaven, there's a sentence about him making whole creation/multiverse are within his hands:

ÒüùÒüïÒüùÒÇüÕ¢╝Òü»ÒüØÒéîÒéÆÕÅ»Þâ¢Òü½ÒüÖÒéïÞÇàÒü¬Òü«ÒüáÒÇéÕñÜÕàâµÖéÚûôÒÇüÕñÜÕàâÕ«çÕ«ÖÒÇüÒüéÒéëÒéåÒéïÚáÿÕƒƒÒü½µëïÒéÆõ╝©Òü░ÒüùÒüªÒüØÒü«õ©ìµØíþÉåÒéƵêÉþ½ïÒüòÒüøÒéï

ÕñÜÕàâÕ«çÕ«Ö = tagen uchu = multi-dimensional universe = multiverse

We both agree about this part, as well as how Mercurius turn whole Shinza system into multiversal one, right? Piece of cake.

Now, let's move on the quote from Mondaiji, Volume 12, chapter 8

Õ¢╝Òü»ÕñÜÒüÅÒü«þÑ×Ú£èÒü«õ©èÒü½þ½ïÒüñþÑ×ÒÇàÒü«þÄïÒüáÒüîÒÇüµºÿÒÇàÒü¬ÕñÜÕàâÕ«çÕ«ÖÒüîþ▓ÆÕ¡ÉÒü«µºÿÒü½þ®ìÒü┐ÚçìÒü¬ÒüúÒüªÒüäÒéìÒüôÒü«þ«▒Õ║¡ÒüºÒü»ÒüØÒü«ÚÖÉÒéèÒüºÒü»Òü¬ÒüäÒÇé

What a coincidence, this quote also used "ÕñÜÕàâÕ«çÕ«Ö" aka Tagen Uchu aka Multiverse too!

And the whole sentence never stated that they are just merely various parralel universes or various universes like you said, how weird, isn't it?

Mind if ya give me explaination, ALRF?

Plus, you dont view Frozen's translation as God's work, sure, that's fine, such translation never exist in this world, but an ACCURATE TRANSLATION and a PERFECT TRANSLATION are 2 DIFFERENT STORIES.

"Said Awakened power that Baron was talking about was none other than Izayoi's Aurora Pillar/Another Cosmology

Though he didn't know how to use it properly so he just told him to swing his fists. It doesn't refer to his physical punches"

=> I love how you avoided your argument earlier, because last time i saw you comment you bring up with "Izayoi can shatter stars with his punches", even though i repeaed this many times that it was a hoax and Tarou-sensei only stated his punches can shake only, NOT destroy, break or anything like that.

But it doesn't matter anymore, cause im gonna reveal your real face right now.

"NBCRÕàÁÕÖ¿Òü«õ©╗µ¿®ÒÇéÕñºÚçÅþá┤ÕúèÕàÁÕÖ¿Òü«ÚûïþÖ║ÞÇàÒüïÒéëõ©╗µ¿®ÒéÆÚáÉÒüïÒüúÒüªÒüäÒéïÒÇé

Õ¢╝ÒüîþÁÂÕ»¥µé¬Òü¿ÒüùÒüªÚíòþÅ¥ÒüùÒüƒþÉåþö▒Òü»ÒÇüµé¬µäÅÒüéÒéﵿ®ÕèøÞÇàÒüîµ░©õ╣൮ƒÚûóÒéÆÕ£░þÉâþÆ░ÕóâÒéÆþá┤ÕúèÒüùÕ░¢ÒüÅÒüÖÒÇüÒüñÒü¥Òéèõ©ûþòîÒéƵ╗àÒü╝ÒüÖÞÂàÕàÁÕÖ¿Òü¿ÒüùÒüªõ¢┐ÒüúÒüƒÒüƒÒéüÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé

Òü¬ÒüèÒÇüÒâçÒéúÒé╣ÒâêÒâöÒéóÒüèÒéêÒü│ÒéóÒé©Òâ╗ÒâÇÒâÅÒâ╝Òé½ÒüîÚíòþÅ¥ÒüùÒüƒÒü«Òü»µ░©õ╣൮ƒÚûóÒü«ÚûïþÖ║ÒüèÒéêÒü│ÚûôÚüòÒüúÒüƒõ¢┐Òüäµû╣ÒüîÕăÕøáÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé

õ╝صë┐Òüºõ©ûþòîÒü«õ©ëÕêåÒü«õ©ÇÒéƵ╗àÒü╝ÒüÖÒü¿õ╝ØÒüêÒéëÒéîÒüªÒüìÒüƒÚûâþå▒þ│╗µ£ÇÕ╝ÀÒü«õ©ÇµÆâÒÇéþÁéµ£½Þ½ûÒü«Õ╝òÒüìÚçæÒéÆÕ╝òÒüÅÕèøÒéÆÕżÕûÜÒüùÒÇüþéÄþå▒Òü¿ÒüùÒüªµë▒Òüåµü®µüÁÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇéµ░©õ╣൮ƒÚûóÒéÆÕ£░þÉâþÆ░ÕóâÒéÆþá┤ÕúèÒüùÒüñÒüÅÒüÖÞÂàÕàÁÕÖ¿Òü¿ÒüùÒüªõ¢┐þö¿ÒüùÒüƒÒüôÒü¿Òü½ÒéêÒéèþöƒÒü¥ÒéîÒüƒµü®µüÁÒÇé"

=> These are your Japanese quotes, or should i say "Scan" to backup your arguments, correct?

At first, i thought you actually quoted them from Mondaiji volumes, but when i put them in google translation, i realized something is wrong here

One, these quotes are too straight-forward.

Two, the tones in these sentences never like what Tarou-sensei said

And i immediately copy a part of them on google searching bar

The result that i have, oh, my, gosh

https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q11156679991

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/問題児たちが異世界から来るそうですよ?

I don't have to say anything more about this.

Deep Sigh

ALRF

Are you thinking only you know Japanese here or something?

You pull this on people actually know to read and check? You think this is the same place like those that wikia or some random blog?

You think you are the only here who actually know Japanese and pretending that you can "enlight" other people with your so-called Japanese knowledge?

You think we are so naive and very easy to be fooled or will automatically believe on what you said by using Japanese wiki on people who actually read entire series as well as checking both Japanese scan and translation? Hillariously, you said if anyone want to debate with you, bring up BT translation or JP scan instead. Now i see the irony of this case.

Gosh, can't believe this, ALRF.

I knew that you are a liar from the beginning, but i just don't expect how terrible you are in lying. And now i wonder how many people have been tricked by you right in this wiki.

Your true face have been exposed, so i think debate Mondaiji with you from now on would be pointless and I dont think i have to give scans or feats anymore, given by the fact that you never read this series at all (or read but turn on skipping mode) and lying to everyone here by using quotes you got random from the internet, not from the actual Mondaiji written by Tarou-sensei himself.

Case closed, with Mondaiji will once again, never got any profiles here. And as for you, ALRF?

The moment you posted those Japanese quotes is the moment you killed yourself.

To anyone, especially ALRF's friends, the whole thing is only my critiscism towards his lying, not personally-attacking him or something else.

 

[ALRF]

They don't come from yahoo anyway

I am a lazy **** who uses the japanese mondaiji wikipedia (just like how i use atwiki for Shinza most of the time lol) however nothing says it is misleading. A lot of info there could be find the same on the novel, i just use that place since it's easy to extract quotes from rather than the novel

https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ÕòÅÚíîÕàÉÒüƒÒüíÒüîþò░õ©ûþòîÒüïÒéëµØÑÒéïÒüØÒüåÒüºÒüÖÒéê%3F

Also not really, i have volume 1 to volume 10. Anything beyond that requires me something else

Just to give an example


Also wot? Mercurius made Throne go from singular universe to multiple universes too (multiversal)

That's no different from the particle stuff except that various multiverse (plura noun) doesn't flow out, so various universes is better. Multiverses shouldn't even be a thing tbh but hey that's me

And just like i said, debating this is starting to get annoying so i already said we're going with what the majority thinks

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Daniel, seriously, there's no need to be so utterly rude to ALRF, calling him a liar and saying you're "exposing his true face". It just makes you come off as obnoxious and confrontational.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

If you want to be respected and taken seriously ... quit the attitude. End of story. And I have yet to see actual scans of where this is in the Visual Novel, and proof of it's consistency . You seem to be more successful throwing names than proving a point IMHO.

I agree with ALRF

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@Seed: Just quick clarification, Mondaiji isn't a VN series. It's an LN series, so we only have text to go by.

 

[ALRF]

Smol mistake. It's a light novel haha (Ninja'd)

@Siegfried by the way, i want to be specific on that not everyone would be 6-A. Because that will be ridiculous when there's stuff like Shiroyasha for example, i just don't agree with the majority being tier 4

In any case, it's up to others to see

 

[Daniel_Collinson]

Gonna out of this quick so here's my last words, for now (maybe)

"I am a lazy **** who uses the japanese mondaiji wikipedia (just like how i use atwiki for Shinza most of the time lol) however nothing says it is misleading. A lot of info there could be find the same on the novel, i just use that place since it's easy to extract quotes from rather than the novel"

=> Except that Shinza wiki got some hands from Masada on it, so the accuracy is undeniable. However Mondaiji wiki is just another normal wiki site that you can find it anywhere.

And do you even realize that it's a public wiki, so anyone can come and fix it as they want right? In fact, they can write whatever the heck they want on that wiki.

So no, please don't use lazy as an excuse, it's very lame. You already said if i want to debate with you then i have to use BT or Japanese scan instead, correct?

And what Japanese scan here, i mean the actual scan from Mondaiji volumes, not just some random internet quotes. Will you choose to believe someone on the internet said or go grab the series and read for yourself?

But oh well, it doesn't matter anymore. Since i have enough of this.

"Also wot? Mercurius made Throne go from singular universe to multiple universes too (multiversal)

That's no different from the particle stuff except that various multiverse (plura noun) doesn't flow out, so various universes is better. Multiverses shouldn't even be a thing tbh but hey that's me"

=> So in short, you admitted there's "multiverse" in Shinza quote but will deny the "multiverse" in Mondaiji quote even though both are using same word?

If Tarou see this and Masada see this, both would commit sudoku immediately.

And last one here

Matthew, none of my statements are utterly rude to ALRF. Being critical and being personal are 2 different things. My opinion about ALRF will not change, he lied to me and other people about his scans and attempted using wikia to trick actual readers, which is something i couldnt ignore to criticize. Im just trying to prove his lying and hypocrisy about Mondaiji verse. I posted enough proofs there, it's up for you to accept it or not.

Plus, from ALRF himself that he dont mind heavy words. And im keeping my promise, as long as it didnt violate the rules here. Professionalism # Personalism. Just ask ALRF, i never directly attack him, not even a single one.

To those who question about Mondaiji's fate in this wiki, here's your 2 options:

1) Believe what ALRF said and automatically agree with his arguments, feel free to ignore what others said cause ALRF is always right.

2) Read the actual Mondaiji and go find it by yourself. BT translation is inaccurate? Simple, read Chinese translation or download the raws and read them instead (If you know Chinese or Japanese)

 

[ALRF]

Didn't even deny that Mondaiji quote there being multiverse? I just said how "various multiverse" doesn't make since and since you can't pluralize something that is already a plural, it's better to TL it as various universes. Look how i even said about Mercurius it's universes

Multiverse doesn't even exist in their dictionnary.

I am the kind of person that uses anything as long as info is accurate and Mondaiji wikipedia looked fine to me considering it has everything from the novel but 'k. That's you and that's me

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I don't see where ALRF was lying or being a hypocrite though? Both of you posted evidence. You constantly attacking ALRF's character is not going to win you any points nor does it make your point stronger. All I see is you making accusation and making sure to take a personal shot at ALRF at every single one of your comments and being nothing but rude in your attempt to "call someone out and criticize their behavior".

At this point you aren't being professional as nothing you have said is professional. If you wanted to be professional you would have brought your gripes with him on his message wall or PM. This boils down to a personal attack from ALRF's differing viewpoints. You are the one being obnoxious and confrontational here and you are trying to disguise it as "criticism" and being "critical" when in fact it's personal.

ALRF doesn't care? So what, it doesn't sit right me me or anyone else so guess what? We are going to say something about your behavior. This high and mighty "I'm in the right" attitude is simply obnoxious.

 

[Daniel_Collinson]

I don't see where ALRF was lying or being a hypocrite though? Both of you posted evidence. You constantly attacking ALRF's character is not going to win you any points nor does it make your point stronger. All I see is you making accusation and making sure to take a personal shot at ALRF at every single one of your comments and being nothing but rude in your attempt to "call someone out and criticize their behavior".
At this point you aren't being professional as nothing you have said is professional. If you wanted to be professional you would have brought your gripes with him on his message wall or PM. This boils down to a personal attack from ALRF's differing viewpoints. You are the one being obnoxious and confrontational here and you are trying to disguise it as "criticism" and being "critical" when in fact it's personal.

ALRF doesn't care? So what, it doesn't sit right me me or anyone else so guess what? We are going to say something about your behavior. This high and mighty "I'm in the right" attitude is simply obnoxious.

Snip

If you say i'm making accusation, then why ALRF didnt speak anything about this? Why ALRF didnt try to defend himself when i pointed out he never used actual scan but only random wiki site to prove his argument? Sure, he admitted he used that wiki, but he DIDNT deny that he lied to me about using Japanese scan, am i correct? And since when calling ALRF a liar = personally attacking? Personally attacking is when you directly use bad words to insult them, such as "r*tard, dumbf*ck, d*ck,....(sorry if i didnt censor these words enough)". I criticized him for not using real scans to me, but using quotes that people wrote on some random wiki instead.

ALRF literally said to me he didnt mind using heavy words, and i did sorry to him before if i have bad-mouth on him. However, im still doing as long as it didnt violated the rules in this wiki or starting a not worthy flame war.

And i never have attitude like "I'm the only right person" here, did i ever said that only what i said is true? In fact, i posted right there literally as "you can agree with my statement or not, my proofs have been delivered, i dont have authority here in this wiki to force anyone to agree with me"

Hello? If you want to defend ALRF, how about at least check the edvidence carefully on both sides please? Im being critical but im not being personal, again, calling someone lying is not personal-attacking.

Not to mention, most of my quotes above i always said to ALRF that can he have a fair discussion with me outside from this wiki or not, cause this is getting nowhere.

Just saying, im like any other normal user here, so it's up to ALRF's decision. I will always welcome him if he wants to discuss with me, fairly.

Again, if i truly hurt ALRF in some ways, then im very sorry about it. However i will not change my criticism towards his arguments. I criticized? Yes, but personal-attacking? No, and there's no way in hell i would do that. And i think ALRF agree with this.

Good night to all of you then.

 

[ALRF]

I am already compiling all japanese scans from the novel for future profiles

Such as the case with Willa and her flames being capable of burning even demons who embodies concepts ( btw a snip from the folder which has the scans)

• Ò黵äÜÞÇàÒü«Õè½þü½Òé» õ©ÇþöƒÒü¿µ¡╗Òü«ÕóâþòîÒüïÒéëÕżÕûÜÒüùÒüƒÚó¿Òü»þë®Þ│¬þòîÒü½Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüÖÒéïÕà¿ÒüªÒéÆþä╝ÒüìÕ░¢ÒüÅÒüÖÒÇé ÒüØÒéîÒü»µªéÕ┐ÁÒü«ÕàÀÞ▒íÕîûÒüùÒüƒµé¬Ú¡öÒüºÒüé Òüú ÒüªÒééõ¥ïÕñûÒüºÒü»Òü¬Òüä (Hope the text is accurately extracted aaaaaaa)

I am obviously not going to rely on the japanese wikipedia only

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"If you say i'm making accusation, then why ALRF didnt speak anything about this? Why ALRF didnt try to defend himself when i pointed out he never used actual scan but only random wiki site to prove his argument? Sure, he admitted he used that wiki, but he DIDNT deny that he lied to me about using Japanese scan, am i correct? And since when calling ALRF a liar = personally attacking? Personally attacking is when you directly use bad words to insult them, such as "r*tard, dumbf*ck, d*ck,....(sorry if i didnt censor these words enough)""

Why didn't he? Simple, why point out your accusations when he'd rather point out your arguments. You are the only one here deciding to target ALRF directly instead of just his points. He's not causing a shitshow, you are. Also, there is a difference than saying "hey you're lying" and then posting;

"I knew that you are a liar from the beginning, but i just don't expect how terrible you are in lying. And now i wonder how many people have been tricked by you right in this wiki."

"You think you are the only here who actually know Japanese and pretending that you can "enlight" other people with your so-called Japanese knowledge?"

"Your true face have been exposed, so i think debate Mondaiji with you from now on would be pointless and I dont think i have to give scans or feats anymore, given by the fact that you never read this series at all (or read but turn on skipping mode) and lying to everyone here by using quotes you got random from the internet, not from the actual Mondaiji written by Tarou-sensei himself."

"But it doesn't matter anymore, cause im gonna reveal your real face right now."

I could post many more. Your entire deal is trying to "expose" ALRF. There is no being critical here. Not at all. Also, personal attacks do NOT have to be curse/bad words to be considered an attack. I don't know where you got that from.

"ALRF literally said to me he didnt mind using heavy words, and i did sorry to him before if i have bad-mouth on him. However, im still doing as long as it didnt violated the rules in this wiki or starting a not worthy flame war."

Saying sorry before the fact means jack and shit when everything afterward is nothing but you trying to "reveal his true colors" and such. Clearly showing so personal issues with him. You've been nothing but rude to him and have decided to justify it as "being critical" which is flat out bullshit.

"And i never have attitude like "I'm the only right person" here, did i ever said that only what i said is true? In fact, i posted right there literally as "you can agree with my statement or not, my proofs have been delivered, i dont have authority here in this wiki to force anyone to agree with me""

By no means what I was talking about. Your attitude is nothing but obnoxious and confrontational. Your very quotes prove it as such. Your attitude is "I think you are a liar, ergo, thusly, therefore I am going to comment on how you are a liar for nearly half my comments, meanwhile acting as if I am the morally correct individual here."

"Hello? If you want to defend ALRF, how about at least check the edvidence carefully on both sides please? Im being critical but im not being personal, again, calling someone lying is not personal-attacking."

I have and you have once again tried to hide your personal attacks as "being critical". Calling someone a liar is not a personal attack. But when nearly half you comment is nothing but calling said person a liar and "revealing their true colors", and comments like; "If Tarou see this and Masada see this, both would commit sudoku immediately." does not fly What about that is critical or professional? It's a personal attack at that point.