MoA!Kirito vs Big_Kahuna round 2, but Big_Kahuna leveled up since then.

[Xmark12]

Let's see where this goes.

Kirito (Middle of Alicization)

vs

Big_Kahuna (Floor 5)

Rules:

• Speed equalized.

• In-character.

• Win by whatever they would do in-character to win.

• The battle takes place on Floor 3 in the Forest of Wavering Mists.

• The two are 5 meters apart from each other.

• Other than those, Standard Battle Assumptions apply.

Score:

Kirito: 0

Big_Kahuna: 0

Inconclusive: 0

Battle Music:

Kirito's Theme

Big_Kahuna's Theme

 

[DMUA]

Kirito's basically screwed at first stroke, what with Kahuna's abundance of true damage weapons, and Kahuna's drunken fighting wouldn't exactly favor his predicability.

Not to mention, Kahuna having higher AP and immortality makes him a bit harder to kill then what Kirito would favor.

 

[Xmark12]

All of Kahuna's true damage items are either melee only or once per battle (Wraith Ash). And because both are still within similar AP and use an "HP" stat, Kirito will at least survive the first gunshot to realize how much of a threat Kahuna is (He should already be cautious though since that's just his personality, and especially since he has enough experience with unknown foes and adapting to them already).

Kirito has faced enemies who can one shot him and have more HP than him. This isn't the first time he's gone through this, and especially since he has Incarnation as a passive now constantly changing things in his favor, the match gets even closer.

Kirito is pretty crafty. He constantly seeks openings and uses whatever he can that's available to win, such as blinding the opponent with luminous element, setting up shields with cryogenic element, etc.

Also Kirito has much more battle experience than Kahuna at this point. Most of his childhood practicing Kendo + 2 years of constant battle + 1 year of different games (including GGO, which has guns, which he can deflect (he has an OuSS specifically for deflecting and cutting projectiles so perfectly in its hitbox that it doesn't matter its Durability, he'll shatter it)) + Weeks training in Kendo again with Suguha + Another 2 years training in an actual sword fighting academy and fighting with possible death once again in the Central Cathedral.

Unless Kahuna has some extra experience fighting in life or death battles constantly, Kirito has better battle senses than Kahuna and can survive.

Kirito's main strat is to dodge and cut whatever he can to not get hit anyways, which leads the battle to be one of skill, which Kirito has a seemingly big advantage in, which is not even factoring Incarnation, Hypersense, or Sword Skills above 4-hits yet.

 

[Ligerheart]

First thing to mention is on Kiri being able to deflect Sludge's Money Shots. They're shotgun shells, where there is no bullet to deflect or destroy, only shrapnel that he's gonna have to avoid.

Anyway, Big Kahuna is going to start the fight off by trying to keep the gap closed with Kirito. He remembers how their first battle went where Kiri started spamming System Calls to chuck the elements at him with impunity once distance was created. It's likely he'll start off with just Sludge readied, regardless of whether he's drunk or not, since it's not a bright idea to start a fight just firing off all cylinders. This means Kirito will have to deal with the quaint martial art that is Zui Quan. A style that exploits false "openings" for opponents to fall into. Has he fought a drunken boxer before? If not, then Kirito is going to struggle in melee at the start.

While Kahuna doesn't have nearly as much experience fightin' in VR/AR as Kiri would by this point, he's likely not going to be phased by any kind of tricks that'll show up from his young opponent. Kahuna has more experience with real life applications of combat, and he's rather creative with such situations in SAO anyway as you can personally attest to. The thousands of videogames he's beaten certainly serve well as inspiration and inference for him in fights like this, too, so he's going to be perceptive and adaptive as the confrontation progresses.

 

[DMUA]

Both sludge and slag constantly deal true damage without wraith enchantment. With Wraith Enchantment in mind, Kirito could very well have a chance to get Euguo'd outright.

That said, does Kahuna start drunk or is he going to have to get some in his system first?

 

[Ligerheart]

Unironicaly, that is an important distinction to establish. Kahuna's probably drunk though, since he shouldn't have a reason to just be in the middle of Floor 3 otherwise.

 

[Moritzva]

Seeing as Kahuna has already fought some version of Kirito, he has limited prior knowledge. Combine that with the AP gap and how a lot of Kirito's abilities are just bad against Kahuna, and I'll vote Kahuna FRA.

 

[Xmark12]

Spinning Shield will definitely be enough to deflect the shells, as seen here. If he can do that against AOE fire than can affect up to 40+ enemies, then he can definitely do that against a few shotgun shells.

Even then Hypersense, battle instincts, and his general reactions would allow him to dodge effectively.

Zui Quan is actually pretty similar to Kirito's own fighting style, since he constantly uses tricks and mind games to get the upper hand. He's also used to opponents who are constantly unpredictable, such as Morte and every PKer in Laughing Coffin, so even though he's never fought someone who's drunk before, he's fought a multitude of people who were unpredictable and adapted to them.

The same could be said for Kirito since, again, he's used to adapting to unpredictable and unknown situations on the fly multitude of times. Changes in the Elf War Campaign, PKers who will do anything to win, new monsters past Floor 10, dungeons that can instantly kill those who are walking in it, people with new fighting styles and techniques (Morte, PoH, Eugene, Death Gun, Eiji, literally every single Integrity Knight, Quinella), etc..

Kirito was rather creative as well, considering he created a multitude of effective and practical Outside System Skills, abused everything he could in his version of SAO to his advantage, and everything else I talked about.

 

[DMUA]

If he pulls spinning shield, he's just going to have aftercast lag and be stuck in a motion over Kahuna firing a few shells. It leaves plenty of room for him to just run up and deck Kirito with true damage.

 

[Xmark12]

Um, Skill Connect?

 

[DMUA]

Name a skill that the motions of spinning shield lead into.

 

[Xmark12]

The post-motion of Spinning Shield is settling your arm to the right of your waist.

The Sword Skills that have pre-motions that begin like that (Which have been shown) are: Horizontal, Horizontal Arc, Horizontal Square, Howling Octave, Savage Fulcrum, Sharp Nail, Snake Bite, and Vorpal Strike.

So yeah, Kirito has a lot of options after Spinning Shield.

 

[DMUA]

That said, he'd have to get into a motion Kahuna would already be familiar with, and that doesn't stop Kahuna from just attacking where the spinning shield isn't while it's spinning.

 

[Xmark12]

Kahuna's not familiar with Howling Octave since this is only Floor 5 Kahuna, and those Sword Skills aren't unlocked yet for anyone at that point. He also wouldn't be that familiar with Kirito using Horizontal Square and Savage Fulcrum since Kahuna's version of Kirito didn't use those Sword Skills much at this time iirc.

Also keep in mind that Incarnation also boosts the effectiveness, range, power, and speed of Sword Skills (perfect example being Vorpal Strike's insane range boost and Starburst Stream's added 17th hit).

Also Spinning Shield won't be an automatic go-to for Kirito anyways.

 

[DMUA]

That's the counter he had to Kahuna just blasting him with a shotgun, so that's what started talking.

Incarnation requires excessive willpower and this is a random guy who isn't threatening or has actively slaughtered Kirito's only companions.

There are still enough skills Kahuna would know, and, even so, if the hits get off, they'll only really put minor progress into ending the actual battle.

 

[Xmark12]

Incarnation requires excessive willpower and this is a random guy who isn't threatening or has actively slaughtered Kirito's only companions.

Here's the thing. Incarnation in the Underworld isn't something that requires extreme willpower like in other VR spaces. It's an active force within the Underworld that everyone subconsciously uses. It's essentially the main gameplay mechanic of the Underworld. Everyday people use Incarnation whether they know it or not. Everything, from Sacred Arts, to Sword Skills, to even growing flowers uses Incarnation.

Even someone with extremely low willpower could amp their stats and use probability manipulation. Remember Raios? He was able to use probability manipulation and stat amps through simply believing he was above his opponent.

Also, remember that Incarnation doesn't just run on willpower. It also runs on imaginatio. The more imaginative and creative you are, the more Incarnation will make the situation turn in your favor.

Who's creative and uses the STL to access Incarnation much more easily, to the point where it'll affect every single actio he does? Kirito.

Also, like Rick said, Kahuna would more likely start off by closing the gap because of his previous experiences, not blast a shotgun shell.

Minor progress is all Kirito needs. He's fought enemies that could one shot and had higher HP than him before.

 

[Moritzva]

He's fought enemies that could one-shot and had higher HP because of either PIS or the enemy being very, very stupid.

This is Kirito.

 

[Ligerheart]

Along with that, Kahuna is going to be able to tank most of Kirito's attacks due to entrenching himself in Tank Passives such as Tank and Defender. Tank alone reducing the effectiveness of every attack Kirito lands by more than 50%. He's also already aware of Skill Connect so he can simply create distance with Sludge when he sees Kirito starting to wind up a Sword Skill. Then use his range options like trees, his boomerangs Swoop, and simple shooting with Sludge to begin wearing the kid down. How would he even react to Kahuna seemingly fleeing, only for him to uproot trees and start abusing the abundant ammo that is the entirety of Floor 3?

There's also the idea that Spinning Shield would be better suited to blocking Kahuna's own Sword Skills than just some shotgun blasts, so Kirito could potentially be leaving himself open to get Stunned by Shadow Stitch, Upheaval, Numbing Impact or any of the others without a guaranteed block in the form of Spinning Shield. He could even goad Kirito into using Spinning Shield only to then hit right through with a Wraith'd Cyclone. Considering that, Kahuna would rather keep the fight to a melee in the beginning, then only get more aggressive like this once either his or Kirito's health has fallen at least a fourth of the way.

 

[DMUA]

Kirito in the underworld can be killed by being hit in the heart or head. Kahuna isn't the same ordeal. He's a tank, he's going to take the hits and regen it off, all while throwing his own skills into the fray.

 

[Xmark12]

@Pixel examples of the enemies "being very, very stupid"? In the Aincrad arc he fought those who were ruthless and unpredictable in combat such as Laughing Coffin members; smart fighters like Asuna (the Progressers ME2); NPCs that could adapt on the fly; geniuses such as Akihika Kayaba. In the Fairy Dance arc he fought Eugene who was considered the best player in the game at the time. In the Phantom Bullet arc he fought Death Gun who was a higher-up Laughing Coffin member. Especially in the Alicization arc he was fighting people over 100 years old and had extreme battle experience way beyond both him and Kahuna.

Kahuna also never seen Kirito Skill Connect with one sword before, only two, so you'd think that he'd think that he wouldn't know Kirito could Skill Connect with only one sword.

Kirito would also use the environment to his advantage, since he's familiar with the place too, such as knowing that his enemy cannot see where he is on the map if he simply runs into the fog (and because Kirito has the Distinguish Outside System Skill he would know where Kahuna is and Kahuna wouldn't know where Kirito is). He would try whatever he can to cheese Kahuna, especially once he figures out that Kahuna is a tank and can throw trees.

He would also spam Sacred Arts at that point (and because forests are rich with resources, he wouldn't stop anytime soon because of a lack of resources), blinding him, freezing him in place for a cheese hit, knock him back with an aerial element, and constantly use the fog to dash in and out of sight and locate him through Distinguish and umbral element. Here's how I would see one of the battle possibilities playing out:

-Because Kahuna wouldn't open with a shotgun in the face and instead try to close the gap against this version of Kirito, and because Kirito doesn't know his enemy's AP advantage, they would both charge in towards each other.

-Kirito would likely get the first hit considering Kahuna doesn't use Sword Skills as an opener in-character iirc, but then he would realize how tanky Kahuna is and how little his HP budged. Now there's two situations that can arise from this:

--1: Kirito gets hit by Kahuna's true damage melee attack and suddenly realize that his Life is basically either half or in the red zone (He definitely wouldn't get one shotted because of Hypersense + battle instincts helping him at least move out of a critical blow).

--2: Kirito manages to not get hit.

--Either one of those will lead to this next one anyways:

-Kirito escapes into the fog and heals himself up with luminous element, then plan to use the environment from there as much as he can.

From there it's just a battle of who could out-last each other, which would be pretty even, considering that Kahuna has Battle Healing and Kirito has Incarnation + luminous element spam to heal (and remember they're in a forest. Kirito won't lose any resources any time soon to spam Sacred Arts).

 

[Moritzva]

Honestly, Laughing Coffin members aren't the pinnacle of intelligence. They really don't show much intelligence outside of being, say, regular people, honestly.

 

[Xmark12]

The normal members sure, but the higher-ups definitely have more intellect. Morte was an unpredictable fighter and knew PvP inside and out, down to the precise time to start a fight and where he should position himself to bring his enemies into a trap, as well as manipulating the two biggest guilds at the time (The Aincrad Liberation Squad and the Dragon Knights Brigade). Johnny Black and Red-Eyed XaXa planned an intricate plot during the GGO incident. PoH, the leader of Laughing Coffin, managed to convince a large majority of players in SAO to come to his side and manipulate all the players of Aincrad for over a year simply through his intellect alone.

Hell, even some of the normal members were shown to use manipulative tricks to lead players into a false sense of security to kill them, masterful stealth and stealing techniques, knowing precisely when to escape using smoke bombs, and just in-general being creative with their kills compared to simply "stabby stabby I'm crazy".

 

[Ligerheart]

Here's how I would see one of the battle possibilities playing out:

-Because Kahuna wouldn't open with a shotgun in the face and instead try to close the gap against this version of Kirito, and because Kirito doesn't know his enemy's AP advantage, they would both charge in towards each other.

-Kirito would likely get the first hit considering Kahuna doesn't use Sword Skills as an opener in-character iirc, but then he would realize how tanky Kahuna is and how little his HP budged. Now there's two situations that can arise from this:

--1: Kirito gets hit by Kahuna's true damage melee attack and suddenly realize that his Life is basically either half or in the red zone (He definitely wouldn't get one shotted because of Hypersense + battle instincts helping him at least move out of a critical blow).

--2: Kirito manages to not get hit.

--Either one of those will lead to this next one anyways:

-Kirito escapes into the fog and heals himself up with luminous element, then plan to use the environment from there as much as he can.

From there it's just a battle of who could out-last each other, which would be pretty even, considering that Kahuna has Battle Healing and Kirito has Incarnation + luminous element spam to heal (and remember they're in a forest. Kirito won't lose any resources any time soon to spam Sacred Arts).

So let's say the Big K notices just how much damage he actually did to Kirito with only an attack or two. There's incentive for Kahuna to end the fight quicker because he sees he can end the fight quicker. If Kirito tries to disengage and heal, what's to stop BK from hailing him with projectiles or giving chase with Sludge's knockback? Using Balls' tactic he could even use Sonic Leap to tackle and pin Kiri and end the fight with a few shotgun blasts and claw strikes. If he does get away, it's time to start bombarding his general direction with trees.

And even though this is more of a hypothetical, the fact that Big Kahuna was able to sense Xcalibur's life being in danger and appearing to save him immediately twice makes me doubtful that Kirito could use the Mists to hide from Kahuna in combat. It's fully possible that Drinking """Problem""" is more effective than Hypersense, so neither party could rely on stealth here.

As for the intelligence of Laughing Coffin and other PKers, I can't really say anything considering they're being snuffed out under Big Kahuna's gradually forming martial law of Aincrad. He hasn't had to deal with many personally since the Misfits tried to assassinate him.

 

[Xmark12]

I'm not sure if this is in-character for Kahuna, but wouldn't he be really off-putted that Kirito is spilling blood instead of red particles? That'd likely give him pause for a bit if it's in-character to do that, at least enough for Kirito do disengage into the fog before Kahuna comes back to his senses.

The hail of projectiles could definitely be dodged much easier now that Kirito has cover he can use. Plus, because Kahuna would need to use perception to find Kirito's general direction to shoot in, so Kirito would also have that to his advantage.

Drinking """Problem"""'s feats all consisted of out-of-combat situations. It's never been shown to work nearly as well in-combat, if at all.

Also your version of Laughing Coffin is the Misfits, not the actual members of canon Laughing Coffin such as PoH, Johnny Black, and Red-Eyed XaXa.

 

[DMUA]

What reason would his perception have to lower when he's in combat? Drinking Problem doesn't specify anything about combative situations in it's description.

 

[Xmark12]

It doesn't specify, but when you consider that every single battle he's been in with Drinking """Problem""" had little to no effect on his perception or abilities in-battle, and the only times where it was affecting him majorly was when saving someone (Something he isn't even going to do in this battle), you can't assume it'll automatically work as it does like in that situation.

 

[DMUA]

How much does perception even come into play in combat to be tested?

So far our only feat is cross floor awareness and nothing contradicts it

 

[Ligerheart]

Drinking """Problem"""'s effectiveness is a hypothetical here, just to restate. Though it would be hilarious for it to outdo Hypersense.

So I wouldn't be sure that Kirito would bleed from a punch or hammer strike, but if the first hit Kahuna can get off is from Slag or a shot from Sludge then I can see how he would do a double take. Which he probably would if he wasn't drunk and already fighting a different version of Kirito who just randomly appeared in the middle of the forest.

Kiri still needs to have some method to get away, whether he gets hit or not, that can either outpace or mislead Kahuna. The recoil from Sludge gives BK plenty of mobility that'll make it difficult for Kirito to flee from or chase after his opponent. It won't be so easy for him to disengage.

Even if Kirito tries to outlast in a war of attrition, Kahuna would be able to do that easier since he has passive Battle Healing and can tank far more hits. He can either keep the pressure on Kiri or play the waiting game while keeping some tricks reserved like tree-wielding and Wraith Enchants either way.

Big Kahuna's main concerns for the fight are going to be Kirito spamming Skill Connect in close range and Sacred Arts at a distance, though again he'll tank most hits, regenerate, and even chug potions to cap himself off. And all he needs is to get three or so solid hits in before Kirito can heal.

 

[Xmark12]

How much does perception even come into play in combat to be tested?
So far our only feat is cross floor awareness and nothing contradicts it

In the IRL Tabletop the Perception stat becomes one of the most important stats in combat. It's used to find feints, weakness, things in the environment, where enemies are, where enemies are positioned, etc.. Hell, one of the new Defensive Actions that was there in the beginning of the IRL Tabletop, Defensive Stance, uses Perception.

And in literally 0 of these situations and more other than out-of-combat, Drinking """Problem""" had little to no effect on anything. So yeah, Drinking """Problem""" working in-combat now would be extremely contradictory.

Giant bruises and Kirito seemingly wincing in pain when that shouldn't make sense in a normal VR space might also make Kahuna do a double take.

Kirito has a Skill called Escape that would help him, well, escape from the battle temporarily. Also luminous element blinding Kahuna (or cryogenic element freezing him) + Kirito being good at hiding would pretty much make it guaranteed that he'd disengage from battle to heal up and continue.

Kirito could spam luminous element to heal because the battle is in a forest where resources are practically limitless, so Kirito arguably has the same level of healing. From there Kirito could get pretty crafty with his methods. Maybe umbral element to make the Kahuna's vision darker, aerial element to make the mist blow where he wants to, thermal element to burn some trees down, etc..

 

[DMUA]

If Kirito actively runs away from combat, why wouldn't the out of combat senses kick in?

Kirito would have to cast luminous element while evading Kahuna's strikes, while his regen just happens.

 

[Ligerheart]

Big Kahuna has barely had to use Perception during combat so far actually, with one of the few times being against the Kirito he knows in the Floor 4 Tournament. It's already a given that Kahuna hasn't bothered much to Find Weakness because it's not useful to him when he's alone and it's unnecessary when cutting down mobs and bosses with the Blades. When it comes to Feinting, Big Kahuna is literally the player who originally came up with the idea of using Feints in the first place. Perception checks against Feints have been non-existent because literally everyone who uses it in SAO so far is basing it off of his style, so he easily recognizes them until players start putting their own twists on Feinting.

Whether one can identify a piece of the environment doesn't fully translate to keeping tabs on an enemy in battle. It's not fully out of the realm of possibility that Drinking """Problem""" would provide Kahuna with enhanced awareness for battle especially when how high one's Strength or Ranged Skill is directly affects their accuracy in combat. Both Strength and Ranged Skill being increased by his Drinking """Problem""".

As for when Kahuna hits Kirito, if anything about it would surprise him it'd maybe be the amount of HP loss more than bodily damage or reactions to pain. Though he likely wouldn't be surprised anyway considering he's done heavy damage to non-tanks like this before- in the Floor 4 Tournament. Where he kicked his version of Kirito hard enough to knock him out and down to Death's door.

As for Escape- what are the specifics of the Skill? Is it instant? Would it move him farther than 20+ meters? He could possibly play keep away if so.

And remember, Big Kahuna is aware of Sacred Arts. He'll likely try a Sword Skill as soon as he hears Kirito chanting to prevent him from using them, as long as he's in range to do so.

 

[Xmark12]

If Kirito actively runs away from combat, why wouldn't the out of combat senses kick in?

Kirito would have to cast luminous element while evading Kahuna's strikes, while his regen just happens.

He's still not technically out-of-combat, just a distance away hiding. If this were in the tabletop sense rounds would still be happening, but Kahuna would just have to roll Perception checks as Kirito's trying to resposition in the fog.

Well yeah, he still has to cast the Sacred Art, it's just via the fog and being in hiding + being able to react better to shots because of distance + Hypersense + Distinguish, it'd just be much easier.

Also correction: Phase was the first one to use feints with his daggers.

It's not out of possibility, but literally 0 feats in-combat so far that Kahuna used perception in had Drinking """Problem""" in effect.

As for Escape I'll have to check the scans for, since its description literally just says the ability to disengage using martial arts... somehow. I wouldn't bet it would allow Kirito to move 20+ meters though. Even an Incarnation-enhanced Vorpal Strike only went about 15 meters.

As long as Kirito has an image of the thing he wants to do, he can literally skip the chanting and say "Discharge!", letting Incarnation do the rest. That would put Kahuna off, especially since in the first round he only saw Kirito do Sacred Arts traditionally, whereas in actual battles Kirito skips some lines to make it faster or unpredictable.

 

[Ligerheart]

Forgot Phase was the first person to use Feints. Though even his didn't need to be checked by Kahuna because it was too obvious after anyone saw Phase Feint once. That still means everyone else only started to incorporate Feinting after either being trained by Kahuna himself or emulating his movements from Recording Crystals, so he's basically pioneered the use.

As for Kirito being able to skip steps with Incarnation, that would be something that will throw Kahuna off at first. It may open up Kirito's chance at temporary retreat, at least until Kahuna chases him down with Sludge.