Misaka upgrades (To Aru)

[DontTalkDT]

Would this also upgrade Mugino or Kakine in some way?
Edit: Another ToAru thread btw.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Would this also upgrade Mugino or Kakine in some way?
Edit: Another ToAru thread btw.

Looking at their pages... Ye.

Mugino blocked Misaka's Railgun - and her meltdown should scale to that, I think. Kakine is also, in canon, and even in his human key, much stronger than Misaka, but idk.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Adding on this point... Wasn't it stated that Mugino's Meltdower is comparable, or even outperforms, Misaka's Railgun in destructive capabilities - sure, in every thing else, Misaka is 100% superior in due to Meltdowner's sheer focus on destruction, but AP-wise and Dura-Wise, Meltdowner is capable of being affected by this upgrade...

Kakine (in his Human Key) also easily defeated Mugino, and his Dark Matter is superior to Meltdower - for all the same reasons as Misaka, but more - so he scales to this calc as well.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Oh yeah. Where was the Mugino Misaka comparison stated again?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Railgun, maybe?

 

[Nico-v11]

Oh yeah. Where was the Mugino Misaka comparison stated again?

I mean they’ve fought before, so they should be somewhat comparable.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I mean they’ve fought before, so they should be somewhat comparable.

Mmmmmaybe. When they fought Misaka was in a terrible condition having not eaten and slept in days.

Railgun, maybe?

My first thought was their fight in the railgun manga, but I looked through it and didn't find it.

 

[DontTalkDT]

bump

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Stop you're all wrong this is wank you should be ashamed of yourselves
Anyways nothing much to say here besides, and this may warrant another thread, we know that Misaka's main choice of ammo for her Railgun is those coin tokens. But that's not the only ammo she's capable of using right?? She can basically use anything that can be Electro magnetically charged you know like with Therestina I think.

So when equipped with larger objects like that would it not be appropriate to add a "Varies" or "Higher" with a "Depending on what objects are available" onto her profile??.

Just askin

 

[Nico-v11]

Stop you're all wrong this is wank you should be ashamed of yourselves
Anyways nothing much to say here besides, and this may warrant another thread, we know that Misaka's main choice of ammo for her Railgun is those coin tokens. But that's not the only ammo she's capable of using right?? She can basically use anything that can be Electro magnetically charged you know like with Therestina I think.

So when equipped with larger objects like that would it not be appropriate to add a "Varies" or "Higher" with a "Depending on what objects are available" onto her profile??.

Just askin

I’m inclined to agree:

 

[DontTalkDT]

Stop you're all wrong this is wank you should be ashamed of yourselves
Anyways nothing much to say here besides, and this may warrant another thread, we know that Misaka's main choice of ammo for her Railgun is those coin tokens. But that's not the only ammo she's capable of using right?? She can basically use anything that can be Electro magnetically charged you know like with Therestina I think.

So when equipped with larger objects like that would it not be appropriate to add a "Varies" or "Higher" with a "Depending on what objects are available" onto her profile??.

Just askin

In principle the power shouldn't depend on the size of the object. A larger object should theoretically be proportionally fired slower.
Given, due to friction and fiction it might be different for Misaka. So I guess possibly higher could be done.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

In principle the power shouldn't depend on the size of the object. A larger object should theoretically be proportionally fired slower.
Given, due to friction and fiction it might be different for Misaka. So I guess possibly higher could be done.

Well assuming they're all fired at a uniform speed then it stands to reason Bigger object=More Damage, cause of mass, surface area etc..... so unless it's specifically stated somewhere that the propulsion speed is lower with larger objects I'm pretty sure you could get away with adding a "Varies" or "Higher" with that reasoning

 

[Nico-v11]

From my understanding, doesn’t Misaka use less strength in her normal Railgun in order to avoid collateral damage? That means that we can’t compare the same energy output used when she’s doing a Railgun of much larger caliber.

 

[DontTalkDT]

From my understanding, doesn’t Misaka use less strength in her normal Railgun in order to avoid collateral damage? That means that we can’t compare the same energy output used when she’s doing a Railgun of much larger caliber.

No, I don't think so. Collateral damage is avoided due to friction vaporizing the coin she uses.

Well assuming they're all fired at a uniform speed then it stands to reason Bigger object=More Damage, cause of mass, surface area etc..... so unless it's specifically stated somewhere that the propulsion speed is lower with larger objects I'm pretty sure you could get away with adding a "Varies" or "Higher" with that reasoning

The assumption that the speed is uniform is just really not justified by anything and the default assumption wouldn't be that it's the case.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

The assumption that the speed is uniform is just really not justified by anything and the default assumption wouldn't be that it's the case.

Hmmmm I see. That being said I'm pretty sure she can do more damage with bigger objects she does refer to using (don't know what to call it so we're going with metal claw) the metal claw for ammo against Therestina as her "Full Power" and the video from I think season three that was posted .

Would those examples not serve as adequate justification??

 

[Churronzon]

For 8-A Magnetism, it's also supported by the fact that she used magnetism to briefly stop Brunhild's attack and if I'm not mistaken, uses magnetism to accomplish everything she does with her iron sand.

Oh yeah. Where was the Mugino Misaka comparison stated again?

OT 15 Chapter 4 Part 7

She was the #4 in Academy City.
The group of machinery that had been covering the floor just a bit before had been
reduced to rubble in just one attack. Every kind of cover had been crushed and even the
outer wall had been greatly damaged. Mugino stood in the center of the destruction that
could easily bring the entire building down as a smile slowly, slowly spread across her
face.
“Those ******* scientists said that my survival instinct keeps me from putting out any
more force than that, but apparently it was originally enough to kill Railgun instantly.
Well, I can’t complain too much, since they say that the recoil would blow my body to
pieces if I actually did it.”

I'm having trouble remembering when, if ever, Mugino blocked Misaka's railgun however.

 

[XDragnoir]

For 8-A Magnetism, it's also supported by the fact that she used magnetism to briefly stop Brunhild's attack and if I'm not mistaken, uses magnetism to accomplish everything she does with her iron sand.

That's lifting strength

 

[DontTalkDT]

IIRC Misaka also weighed down Brunhild blade, no? And even then Brunhild relatively easily broke through...

Anyway, what do we do with the "Those ******* scientists said that my survival instinct keeps me from putting out any more force than that, but apparently it was originally enough to kill Railgun instantly. Well, I can’t complain too much, since they say that the recoil would blow my body to pieces if I actually did it."-statement?
That sounds like Mugino usually wouldn't be able to... still 8-A? Or go for a likely?

 

[XDragnoir]

8B, Possibly 8A?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Guess that would work.

 

[Churronzon]

This also directly scales up the FIVE_Over Modelcase_RAILGUN as it is supposed to be superior to the original as listed on its profile.

FIVE_Over.
Modelcase_”RAILGUN”.
It was referring to the #3 of the only seven Level 5s in Academy City, the Railgun. Most
likely, it was a powered suit which replicated the power of that esper, and was
completely based on the philosophy of using technology to create something that
exceeds the original.
Science and technology continued to improve, and the latest technology yesterday may
no longer be superior today.
A flying machine that was already terrifying, and a monster that could fire several
thousand times in one minute; the terror of science was revealed again.
(...#3.)
The one above the #4, Mugino Shizuri.
A powered suit that surpassed the #3.

Overwhelming gunfire was fired at Kuroyoru Umidori.
A railgun that surpassed the #3 were fired at her at a speed of four thousand shots per
minute.

-NT1
Kamachi himself states in the Afterword that the FIVE_Over is superior in destructive capability alone, but Misaka would win due to versatility(although potentially not forever as technology advances).

Now about the Five Over. I feel that it is something that goes against the theory of a
battle story.
But, as described in the novel, science and technology continue to advance, so what was
cutting-edge yesterday may not be so today. I decided to put it in to demonstrate that.
Currently, the Five Over has a more powerful gun than the #3, but, if the two were to
fight, the #3 would win due to application.
But that isn’t an absolute, because science and technology will continue to advance.
On the other hand, #3 has a wall called the Parameter List.
I suppose I could say that this is becoming a world of the functionality of machines vs.
the ingenuity of humans. Which is stronger, and how long will one side’s superiority
last? ...Now, I wonder how long #3 can continue reigning.

Upgrading the Railgun FIVE_Over would then also upgrade Kuroyoru for the following reason listed on her profile: at least Large Building level when using multiple Bomber Lances (She can use several hundreds of cyborg arms to create a large number of Bomber Lances and make something like a nitrogen pseudo-barrier that could block a continuous barrage from a Railgun FIVE_Over for a while)

A railgun that surpassed the #3 were fired at her at a speed of four thousand shots per
minute.
The two Gatling railguns on the two sides of the electronic mantis were shooting at
Kuroyoru’s arms from behind. They were sickles that summoned death, with one swing
enough to slice these esper weapons as if they were harvesting wheat.
The railgun trajectories fired at Kuroyoru from both sides.
That small space could rival a guillotine.
“Damn...iiiiiiiittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt!!!!!!”
If she was fully prepared, Kuroyoru would win against the Five Over head on based on
ability alone. However, she reacted slowly. That small gap of a mere few seconds
destroyed a large number of those specially made arms of hers.
Even so, facing the two bullet sickles, Kuroyoru immediately responded.
She moved her remaining several hundred arms about to create a large number of
Bomber Lances. The storms created by the manipulation of the atmosphere deflected
the bullets, and the large number of huge lances clashed directly with the railguns with
amazing devastation, generating lots and lots of storms. Kuroyoru even considered that
merely using air alone wasn’t going to do the job, so she placed a large number of arms
in front of her to act as shields.
(It can work.)
Even though she was on the defense, Kuroyoru was still thinking about counterattacking.

I don't know if anyone else scales to the FIVE_Over atm.

While I'm on the topic of the FIVE_Over, I'm just going to briefly mention that it should have an additional Weakness of eventually overheating and thus being able to be easily dispatched during the cooling period.

(The Gatling railgun will use up a huge amount of electricity and create loads of heat. It
can’t possibly continue to fire forever. The safety feature will have a cooling period for
some time, so if I counterattack at that moment, it’s not hard to destroy the Five Over...)

I know she's 1/5th weaker and doesn't use a railgun in the same way by utilizing the left hand rule, but would this affect Worst in any way?

 

[DontTalkDT]

The Five_over stuff sounds fine.
Don't think it would affect Worst.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Hmm... Been a while, so 'imma list people who is going to be affected by this CRT.

Misaka (Of course)
Kakine (If we decide to not scale him to Accel or smth)
Mugino (You stated that she should be 8-B, Possibly 8-A)
Gunha (Technically already applied, but it should be mentioned)
Rensa
Five-Over Railgun
Kuroyoru
And lastly, Salome!

And that's about it, this Fanta thinks.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Also, Saiai might be upgraded to possibly 8-A via her scaling to Kuroyoru... Sure, they have the same type of power and Kuroyoru's offensive is less effective on Saiai due to that fact, but, nevertheless, I think that is enough to warrant a possibly downscaled 8-A rating. That's my opinion, tho, could be wrong, but idk.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Hmmm... not sure about Saiai. Her tanking Misaka's stuff sounds weird.
I guess we could make use of the rarely used "at most" rating for an "at most 8-A".

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Yeah, that sounds like it is for the best.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Oh ye, DT, you should probably put this information in your OP post - since this upgrade is affecting the characters that I have already listed.

 

[Churronzon]

I would say Kinuhata doesn't scale to Kuroyoru since it was mentioned that Kuroyoru's attacks were less potent due to both of them sharing a nitrogen ability.

No matter how much you try, you can’t pierce through my armor. No matter what the
method or angle is, you won’t even hurt my super soft eyeballs...the method of using a
large amount of nitrogen to pierce through a target like wet paper can work if it were
ordinary steel, but it’s super weak when it goes up against my armor, since it’s also made
of nitrogen.”

In fact, if it was up to me, I would give a description that her armor is 8-A(or w/e rating we are giving) only against nitrogen-based attacks. Or something like that anyways.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Oh ye, DT, you should probably put this information in your OP post - since this upgrade is affecting the characters that I have already listed.

Done.

I would say Kinuhata doesn't scale to Kuroyoru since it was mentioned that Kuroyoru's attacks were less potent due to both of them sharing a nitrogen ability.

In fact, if it was up to me, I would give a description that her armor is 8-A(or w/e rating we are giving) only against nitrogen-based attacks. Or something like that anyways.

Although an option, albeit Kinuhata's nitrogen manipulation has to be somewhat comparable to Kuroyoru's for that to work, no?

 

[Churronzon]

Nope, she never reaches anything close to 8-A against any other attack so I don't see any justification for giving it to her. Therefore, "At most 8-A" is incredibly misleading because she will never gain that level of protection vs anything that isn't nitrogen based; it's too much of an outlier for her. If she didn't have a defined upper limit, I would agree.

Kinuhata Saiai had a dull throbbing pain in her head.
Stephanie’s light machine shotgun was causing severe damage even through Kinuhata’s
Offense Armor. Without that power, Kinuhata was just a frail girl (or so she insisted). If
the bullets kept coming, she could easily receive a fatal injury.
(...Ow. Taking more than seven shots in a row at a range of less than five meters would
be super bad!!)

-OT19
Stating "8-A vs Nitrogen-based attacks" is rarely useful in the context of out-of-universe battleboarding, but it is the most blatantly clear explanation within the verse.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Nope, she never reaches anything close to 8-A against any other attack so I don't see any justification for giving it to her. Therefore, "At most 8-A" is incredibly misleading because she will never gain that level of protection vs anything that isn't nitrogen based; it's too much of an outlier for her. If she didn't have a defined upper limit, I would agree.

-OT19
Stating "8-A vs Nitrogen-based attacks" is rarely useful in the context of out-of-universe battleboarding, but it is the most blatantly clear explanation within the verse.

Hm. I can agree with that.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Well, I guess that would be fine, too.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Hm, I suppose that is that, then. If I counted correctly, we have five non-mod agrees, and one mod agree, so we just need one more to get this applied, me thinks.

 

[Churronzon]

I wasn't aware that the Railgun Five Over's durability is comparable to its AP, according to its profile. It does have the word likely on it though.

• Durability: Likely Building level (Should be tougher than an HsPS-15, its armor is able to withstand a Gatling railgun's shots well enough for Mikoto to use the powered suit as a shield for a short amount of time)

If that's true, then I missed another character who would get upgraded because I wasn't familiar with the reasoning behind his durability and AP: Kihara Kagun.

• Attack Potency: at least Building level with Whitting (Faced and defeated multiple Railgun Five Overs, faced and killed Kihara Byouri), likely higher (Whitting's power continuously grows as he's attacked by the enemy, stated by the author to be "a spell that has an infinite ceiling")
• Durability: at least Building level with Whitting's defensive spell (Whitting's magic nullifies any fatal attack that hits Kagun, if an attack would kill him it will cause no damage to him; however, the spell doesn't offer protection against attacks that will injure but not kill him, even if he will die of blood loss later because of the injury) likely higher (Compared by the author to Accelerator's passive redirection and stated to be "a spell that has an infinite ceiling")

 

[Churronzon]

Kakine (If we decide to not scale him to Accel) - due to being the second strongest level 5 and stomping Mugino

Additional reason includes a statement that his wings can tank at least a Railgun blast.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Nice!

 

[XDragnoir]

The assumption that the speed is uniform is just really not justified by anything and the default assumption wouldn't be that it's the case.

Btw, no assumptions needed anymore, just found this by luck in the liberal arts SS:

The flying fish and the iron sand coating it was blown away. Of course, it was not a coin, so it did not reach three times the speed of sound, but that did not particularly matter.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Bump. Just remembered that this CRT existed. I think we got one mod approval for this, so... need one more to get this applied to profiles?

 

[DontTalkDT]

We need one thread mod or admin (besides me, since I made the thread) to agree.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Got'cha. BTW. You need to include Touma's durability when he is in his Dragon Shell key due to it having a statement in which it says that it tanked Misaka's railgun. Or smth.