Minor Naruto verse addition

[Syncornize]

My intentions are to add these simple things to the profiles. Premise that I am not very familiar with these hax.

Spoiler: Kaguya

Social influencing : Social position and Reputation ( is a member of the Ōtsustuki clan, after having subdued planet earth - she was recognised as a deity to be feared and worshipped )
Instigated fear (via Reputation,dominate and terrify humanity - Made Sakura and Kakashi feel fear,overpowering Naruto and Sasuke - temporarily feel fear to Naruto and Sasuke )

Spoiler: Zetsu

Social influencing : Deception He secretly modified the Uchiha stone tablet to manipulate their beliefs and patiently waited for the perfect moment to act. Pretending to be Madara's creation and loyal servant, he orchestrated the Fourth Great Ninja War and everything that followed, all to activate the Infinite Tsukuyomi and resurrect Kaguya Ōtsutsuki)

Spoiler: Momo,Kin,Urashiki

Social influencing : Social position and Reputation ( all of them are members of the Otsutsuki clan )
Instigated fear ( Kaguya feared their return and the possibility of revenge, so she created an army of Zetsu and amassed chakra in preparation to fight them.)

Spoiler: Uchicha and Madara

Social influencing : (all Uchiha) Reputation and Instigated fear ( is part of the most powerful clan in Konohagakure,as well as the two strongest and most feared clans in the nations - The Sharingan is so feared that, upon seeing it, the best course of action is to flee. If you have the advantage of numbers, it’s advisable to attack from behind )

(only Madara) Social position and Reputation ( became the leader of the uchiha clan - His rivalry with the first Hokage is so legendary that the site of their last living clash was renamed “final valley” and statues of both were erected - His name over the years is still a symbol of power)

Spoiler: Hokage

Social influencing : Social position ,Reputation and Leadership ( the Hokage,usually one of the strongest Ninjas is the Konoah's portector and village leader ) (IDK if leadership is fine but usually the hokage is that figure from whom Ninjas take example and inspiration for their future as Ninja,honestly I don't find the explanation on the page very clear)

Hashirama's Social position and Reputation : ( He is the first Hokage and his promotion as Hokage made his clan the most feared among shinobi - recognized as the god of shinobi and the user of the rare and powerful art of wood.- His power is so legendary as to be superior to that of Madara Uchicha and to leave the genrations to come incredulous,believing his strength a mere exaggeration) / Instigated fear : ( his presence is able to intimidate when he is serious including his brother)

Tobirama's Reputation ( he was renowned as the fastest shinobi of his time, thanks to his technique - He is known for creating numerous Jutsu such as edo tensei,Flying Thunder God tecnique,shadow clone tecnique ) / Instigated fear : ( his presence is able to intimidate )

Hiruzen Reputation : ( nicknamed “the professor” because he knows and is able to replicate all existing ninjutsu in Konoha - He is considered the strongest of all the kage in his time )

Minato's Reputation : ( Even as a child he became famous in the firelands and beyond through his rescue of Kushina - Instigated fear via Reputation ( During the Third Great Ninja War, he is known and feared under the name "yellow flash of the leaf. in the entire series is one of the 2 shinobi with this warning) I'm not very sure about fear but I'll add it I'm not very sure about fear but I'll add it

Tsunade's Reputation ( is considered the strongest woman and was the only kunoichi to participate in the Third Great War - Tsunade's skills extend beyond the typical medical ninja. She earned fame during the Second Shinobi World War for being the only person able to make antidotes for the poisons of Sungakure's Chiyo ) / All sannin ( Is one of the “three great ninja of Konoha.” - The abilities of these individuals are considered to be in a different category than those of ordinary shinobi, so much so that akatuski withdrew )

Kakashi's Reputation ( Named “the copy ninja” and "Kakashi of the Sharingan" for having the record of having copied over a 1000 jutsu through the possession of his Sharingan )

Naruto's Reputation ( he is Jinchūriki of the Nine-Tailed Fox ) / Charisma and Leadership( Naruto is able to befriend “everyone”, to empathise and understand those around him, to reason with them and bring them to the right path, which he does with Gaara, Neji, Tsunade, Nagato, Kurama, Obito and Sasuke,etcc.. throughout the series - Charisma via sexy Jutsu, this technique has proven successful against formidable opponents, including Jonin and even Kaguya. In fact, the Third Hokage himself acknowledged that the technique would work on him as well.

Shikamaru's Social Position ( the Seventh Hokage's right-hand man) - Social position and Reputation ( being made deputy-commander of the Fourth Division and chief-strategist of the entire Allied Shinobi Forces )

 

[Speedblitzer50]

Looks good

 

[Samlex1234]

Following

 

[Syncornize]

bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good.

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

This is fine to me

 

[Syncornize]

Bump

 

[Theglassman12]

looks ok I guess (though the leadership side doesn't really feel like an ability imo but that's for another time)

 

[KingTempest]

We get social influencing for being important???

 

[Damage3245]

We get social influencing for being important???

The amount of social influencing for reputation has me confused. In the majority of the Naruto world, hardly anyone knew who Kaguya was. Does people knowing that she's a member of the Otsutsuki clan really influence them in any significant way?

 

[Syncornize]

We get social influencing for being important???

I know they are not important hax but they are things that the characters didnt have,for the sake of completeness it seemed right to add them. In the future if it happens I will put a lot less of them in threads with more important topics. Even for such simple things you need a thread to post them

The amount of social influencing for reputation has me confused. In the majority of the Naruto world, hardly anyone knew who Kaguya was. Does people knowing that she's a member of the Otsutsuki clan really influence them in any significant way?

if you consider it a problem I can remove it, it was to write something more complete

having 2 approvals for something so simple i think it's OK so the thread can be closed

sorry for the problem,will not happen again

 

[Syncornize]

looks ok I guess (though the leadership side doesn't really feel like an ability imo but that's for another time)

so maybe I will ask Zetsu before adding

 

[DavidTPPM]

I think it's too late given so many staff members approvals, but I don't really agree with a lot here.

Kaguya didn't strike fear into people like Kakashi because of her reputation. They were scared of her because she just neg diffed the strongest humans in history of humanity in front of their eyes after absorbing multiple Juubi levels of chakra. Same with her being recognized as a diety in the past. That's because she was the strongest being to walk the planet, not because she was famous. Kaguya is a completely forgotten myth in the shippuden era.

Same with Kinshiki and Momoshiki. Kaguya wasn't afraid of them because of their position or some other social influence. She was scared because they would punish her. Being scared of getting hurt isn't social influencing.

The hokage and Uchiha are kinda fine ig? But their social influencing is essentially on the level of being a mayor.

 

[Syncornize]

I think it's too late given so many staff members approvals, but I don't really agree with a lot here.

Kaguya didn't strike fear into people like Kakashi because of her reputation. They were scared of her because she just neg diffed the strongest humans in history of humanity in front of their eyes after absorbing multiple Juubi levels of chakra. Same with her being recognized as a diety in the past. That's because she was the strongest being to walk the planet, not because she was famous. Kaguya is a completely forgotten myth in the shippuden era.

Same with Kinshiki and Momoshiki. Kaguya wasn't afraid of them because of their position or some other social influence. She was scared because they would punish her. Being scared of getting hurt isn't social influencing.

The hokage and Uchiha are kinda fine ig? But their social influencing is essentially on the level of being a mayor.

no problem,I am here to do the right thing,I am willing to make changes if a correct observation is made.


my reply will be prolonged because I have noticed many inaccuracies, probably due to the fact that you have not fully understood what social influence is.

Same with her being recognized as a diety in the past. That's because she was the strongest being to walk the planet, not because she was famous. Kaguya is a completely forgotten myth in the shippuden era.

The hokage and Uchiha are kinda fine ig? But their social influencing is essentially on the level of being a mayor.

Summary​

Social Influencing, in simple terms, is the ability to influence a person emotionally, psychologically, and overall, mentally, either to gain an advantage, or have them do certain tasks

as you can see, it is necessary to influence individual people, not necessarily a huge range of people in one time or something similar, also because if you are able to replicate it on a common person, the same should apply to other related people.

the Hokage is the head of the village,he has most of the decision-making power over the village that is home to thousands of people is up to him,I honestly didnt understand this disappointment.

The fact that Kaguya is (deliberately) not remembered in the Naruto era doesnt mean that she wasnt recognised before, she had a great deal of infuelnce in those days, so she fits the conditions perfectly. Just because something is currently forgotten or little known doesn't mean that in its goldenage it wasn't know.
subsequently once the war is over it is known by something like most of the shinobi world, here too I don't see too many problems?

Kaguya didn't strike fear into people like Kakashi because of her reputation. They were scared of her because she just neg diffed the strongest humans in history of humanity in front of their eyes after absorbing multiple Juubi levels of chakra.

Same with Kinshiki and Momoshiki. Kaguya wasn't afraid of them because of their position or some other social influence. She was scared because they would punish her. Being scared of getting hurt isn't social influencing.



Instigating Fear: Characters who can in some way or the other, instigate fear and affect the thinking or confidence of another person in their verse.

Instigating fear in conventional ways is a subcategory of social infuence. As you can see both reputation and generating fear in these cases are sub-categories, I have specified this in blod. You can also find examples on other profiles, such as those mentioned on the appropriate page.

The hokage and Uchiha are kinda fine ig? But their social influencing is essentially on the level of being a mayor.

In the scans as well as in the text I have reported that the Uchiha as the Hokage are recognised beyond the National level...

Those who disagree can read here. in case you dont agree, you should propose changes to the hax requirements.
although before expressing oneself I think it is appropriate to know or read the page

 

[Syncornize]

My answer may be unclear and contain grammatical errors as I'm in a hurry, but I wanted to leave this note. If needed, I'll provide a better explanation when I have more time.

I noticed Kaguya's part now, I put the space to distinguish the 2 things, it's always about creating fear but in different ways, I understand what you meant

 

[DavidTPPM]

as you can see, it is necessary to influence individual people, not necessarily a huge range of people in one time or something similar,

Yeah but in that case basically every human would have social influencing. I'm the oldest brother so I now have SI over my siblings for example.

The issue with that is that it's so useless on small groups that it might just not exist. It's in the same vain as saying every living creature has passive Heat Manipulation because their body can regulate the temperature of their bodies.

Like yeah technically it's true but we're not going to give everyone heat manip over something as insignificant and combat inapplicable as a 2-3°C change.

also because if you are able to replicate it on a common person, the same should apply to other related people.

Uhm I'm not sure I understand. SI is pretty restricted to people who are affected by the authority of the person. A mayor in America would have no SI over random people in Europe.

the Hokage is the head of the village,he has most of the decision-making power over the village that is home to thousands of people is up to him,I honestly didnt understand this disappointment.

No, the feudal lords have the highest decision-making power over not just the village but the entire country.
Their relationship is similar to a president vs a mayor. And like I said, it's fine, it's just not super impressive

The fact that Kaguya is (deliberately) not remembered in the Naruto era doesnt mean that she wasnt recognised before, she had a great deal of infuelnce in those days, so she fits the conditions perfectly. Just because something is currently forgotten or little known doesn't mean that in its goldenage it wasn't know.

Again, no for 2 major reasons.
1. Kaguya wasn't afraid due to her position but due to her power. The threat of death/physical harm through pure power ≠ Social Influencing.
2. The fact that she was forgotten means she lost any sort of reputation which would be identical to losing the ability.

subsequently once the war is over it is known by something like most of the shinobi world, here too I don't see too many problems?

Which again is because she was a threat to everyone's lifes. That's like saying a tsunami or an earthquake have social influencing because people are scared they could kill them.

Instigating fear in conventional ways is a subcategory of social infuence. As you can see both reputation and generating fear in these cases are sub-categories, I have specified this in blod. You can also find examples on other profiles, such as those mentioned on the appropriate page.

Instigating fear goes as follows:

Instigating Fear: Characters who can in some way or the other, instigate fear and affect the thinking or confidence of another person in their verse. The ways the characters use may include usage of position or a reputation in their verse, having an appearance or a certain feature in their appearance which other characters in the verse perceive as creepy or scary and easily scared by it or driving other characters into situations where they are set to feel fear, etc

Simply being stronger than others is not SI or basically everyone in the wiki would have SI over those weaker than themselves.

In the scans as well as in the text I have reported that the Uchiha as the Hokage are recognised beyond the National level...

Yeah because they're among the strongest people alive. Again by this logic even genin would have SI over untrained ninjas because they're much stronger.

Like I said I'm fine with the hokages having SI because they have a pretty significant political position. But simply being scared of someone's strength doesn't equate to them having SI

 

[Zefra3011]

The threat of death/physical harm through pure power ≠ Social Influencing.

It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing

 

[DavidTPPM]

But Kaguya isn't "terrorizing people" using her power, they're naturally scared of her because she's a threat to their lifes.
This isn't "wooo I'm going to kill you if you don't do what I tell you" this is "I'm going to kill you and turn you into my soldier against your will no matter what you do".

 

[Zefra3011]

The first example would be a coercion type of SI since it involves threatening, instigating fear is different as it's just putting a person in a situation where he feels fear.

Coercion: Characters who can make others perform certain actions by blackmailing or threatening them. This differs from instigating fear, as this directly involves making a person perform an action, and blackmailing or threatening them is just a secondary factor.

By saying it in another way it means Instigating fear does not involve having another person perform an action.

also edit:
"they're naturally scared of her because she's a threat to their lifes."

she is using her strength to be a threat to their lifes which causes terror in them sooooo she is using strength to cause fear, regardless if she is doing it actively or not.

 

[Syncornize]

Yeah but in that case basically every human would have social influencing. I'm the oldest brother so I now have SI over my siblings for example.

The assumption that many people have it isnt something I see as a problem; it's a very common and simple hax to obtain, as you can see.

Your example is overly simplified and fundamentally flawed being an older brother does not necessarily mean the other person can be influenced, especially if you assume it without proof, which I have provided through statements or feats.

The issue with that is that it's so useless on small groups that it might just not exist. It's in the same vain as saying every living creature has passive Heat Manipulation because their body can regulate the temperature of their bodies.

Like yeah technically it's true but we're not going to give everyone heat manip over something as insignificant and combat inapplicable as a 2-3°C change.

The example is disconnected from the very definition and the previously accepted assumptions. If you see it as a problem, propose a change for the page itself, not for its current inclusion in the profiles. Speculative trivialities are a matter of standards,while they exist in your example, they do not apply in this case for the SI.

Uhm I'm not sure I understand. SI is pretty restricted to people who are affected by the authority of the person. A mayor in America would have no SI over random people in Europe.

Its a more specific case and separate from the general one I mentioned. In your example, there is another authoritative figure. What I'm saying is that, generally, if X is a regular person, then if Y and Z are also regular people, the user will be able to influence them unless they have various resistances,etcc. However, your example is based on two users with SI

Again, no for 2 major reasons.
1. Kaguya wasn't afraid due to her position but due to her power. The threat of death/physical harm through pure power ≠ Social Influencing.
2. The fact that she was forgotten means she lost any sort of reputation which would be identical to losing the ability.

I didn’t quite understand what you said if needed, I’ll repeat it. The "instigated fear" part, specifically the first point, is related to reputation, while the others explicitly state that it happens through strenght.

I kindly invite you (and not just you) to re-read both the social influence page and the fear manipulation page, where this is explicitly stated. I’m not saying this in a confrontational way; I just want to emphasize it because this is about basic standards, and the core point isn’t really being debated.

Simply being stronger than others is not SI or basically everyone in the wiki would have SI over those weaker than themselves.

Here too, you’ve made a generalized example with a necessarily true conclusion when that’s not the case. Not all characters get scared when they are overpowered. For example, Naruto has faced numerous opponents stronger than him, has been close to death multiple times, yet he doesn’t constantly feel fear.

the rest was either answered by me or by Zefra in my absence.Also, I don't think it's necessary for me to explain the scan where it's stated that Kaguya rules the Earth, etc., through her power. It's all pretty self-explanatory.

If you still don’t believe that many things you disagree with don’t qualify, I suggest once again that you check the profiles where they are listed. You can find an example for fear on the SI page like Ayanokoji

I’ll repeat once more, I’m not saying this in a confrontational way, but beyond asking you to read what is written, there’s not much more I can do.

 

[Syncornize]

I forgot to mention the part where, since he no longer has influence, the hax is not valid. Even if a character has lost a power, that doesn’t mean they never had it. If there is a specific key for it, you simply place it there. The fact that they don’t possess it at a certain moment doesn’t mean they never did,they are capable of using it under the right conditions.

By this logic, whenever a character loses a power, everything related to it should be removed from the wiki. The same would apply when a character dies. At moment X, they had it, and then, for plot reasons, it was deliberately forgotten to allow their return.

 

[DavidTPPM]

The assumption that many people have it isnt something I see as a problem; it's a very common and simple hax to obtain, as you can see.

No that's an oversimplification. By your logic EVERY FICTIONAL CHARACTER except for the very weakest one would have social influencing.

Your example is overly simplified and fundamentally flawed being an older brother does not necessarily mean the other person can be influenced, especially if you assume it without proof, which I have provided through statements or feats.

Dude it's not a flawed example because it lacks evidence, I didn't provide evidence because it's just an example

The example is disconnected from the very definition and the previously accepted assumptions. If you see it as a problem, propose a change for the page itself, not for its current inclusion in the profiles. Speculative trivialities are a matter of standards,while they exist in your example, they do not apply in this case for the SI.

There are no issues with the definition of SI, the issue is that you're trying to stretch those definitions.

Again for example every human can breath air and move their body which is 70% water. Do we give everyone air and water manipulation now? All physical objects bend space so do we give every human spatial manipulation?
No because they're not nearly notable enough to warrant an actual ability.

Its a more specific case and separate from the general one I mentioned. In your example, there is another authoritative figure.

That's irrelevant to the argument I'm making. Even if I lived in a jungle with no mayors, I wouldn't be SId by the mayor of a city in America.

What I'm saying is that, generally, if X is a regular person, then if Y and Z are also regular people, the user will be able to influence them unless they have various resistances,etcc.

No, social influencing only affects those within its range.

I didn’t quite understand what you said if needed, I’ll repeat it. The "instigated fear" part, specifically the first point, is related to reputation, while the others explicitly state that it happens through strenght.

I already addressed this. There's a difference between being strong and abusing it for social benefit and simply just being strong. Otherwise everyone would have SI.

Here too, you’ve made a generalized example with a necessarily true conclusion when that’s not the case. Not all characters get scared when they are overpowered.

Yes which is actually another reason why simply being stronger than someone isn't inherently SI.

the rest was either answered by me or by Zefra in my absence.Also, I don't think it's necessary for me to explain the scan where it's stated that Kaguya rules the Earth, etc., through her power. It's all pretty self-explanatory.

I agree it's self explanatory. Just in the exact opposite way you do.

You can find an example for fear on the SI page like Ayanokoji

 

[Syncornize]

Dude it's not a flawed example because it lacks evidence, I didn't provide evidence because it's just an example

yes,you didn't understand what I said

No, social influencing only affects those within its range.

If the singular is used instead of the plural, there must be a reason. My response is limited to this because it's a waste of time.

It literally says this.

which allows them to control an individual or a group of people

 

[Damage3245]

All this is convincing me is that Social Influencing should be removed from the wiki with the exception of master manipulators like Light and Aizen.

 

[Zefra3011]

All this is convincing me is that Social Influencing should be removed from the wiki with the exception of master manipulators like Light and Aizen.

I'm not entirely in disagreement given I can think of at least 3-4 type of SI an average mother can have lol, but how decide what is the minimum to qualify?

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not entirely in disagreement given I can think of at least 3-4 type of SI an average mother can have lol, but how decide what is the minimum to qualify?

I think it has to something beyond what an ordinary person can achieve. Which is harder to define, sure, than obvious superhuman strength feats, but it has to be a pretty incredible level of manipulating people and has to be done intentionally to achieve an effect.

Something that isn't just "This guy is strong, so people are afraid of them" or "This person is the CEO / President, so people respect them".

Like, I would say that Obito qualifies; he engineered a world war and used Madara's name to influence the opposition and strike fear into them; which is something the characters themselves acknowledge.

 

[Syncornize]

Like, I would say that Obito qualifies; he engineered a world war and used Madara's name to influence the opposition and strike fear into them; which is something the characters themselves acknowledge.

if it's not a problem I could add it among my proposals?
However, it doesn't seem impressive,to do these things he was guided or helped,I am more of the opinion that Zetsu's is better

 

[Zefra3011]

Like, I would say that Obito qualifies; he engineered a world war and used Madara's name to influence the opposition and strike fear into them; which is something the characters themselves acknowledge.

I admittedly know little about Naruto. I don't know what he did to ignite the war, so I'll comment on the second part. Here, he uses Madara's name to instigate fear, which, in terms of complexity, is relatively easy—it’s just a matter of claiming to be someone. For example, take an average person in London in 1888: if he went out with a knife, claiming to be Jack the Ripper in a public place (or however they referred to him at the time), it would indeed instill fear in anyone nearby. With the right setting, it's a feat anyone could pull off.


I believe a standard would involve having an equivalent level of knowledge about emotions and societal behaviors, as well as their application within a strategy. The problem is defining what that level should be. For example, would a psychologist qualify? It might lead to the same issue that caused us to stop rating Battle IQ in the Intelligence section—there are simply too many factors involved.

I also apologize if this goes off-topic.

 

[Syncornize]

bump