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Minor mario
- Thread starter Luckyfun
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Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
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okay but like
why
why
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uh he's called baby mario actually
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Just trying to sort things out.
Edit: i thought it might be useful for furture revisions.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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Why do the Pure Hearts have invulnerability negation tho
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Pure hearts can negate Super dimentio invulnerability as shown here 19:22
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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Pretty sure that's where the power null comes from, this isn't necessary.
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That's just increasing AP by heavy amount to fight against foe with high durability; it's not Invulnerability negation.
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Power null covers this, it can be seen in the description on Paper Mario's Pure Hearts tabber
ZespeonGalaxy
He/Him- 1,551
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Dimentio stated to not be invincible anymore?
Anyways I agree that Invulnerability negation should be added, the vid lucky provided wasnt the example i was looking for but yeah the scan hyper and i provided justifies the ability
Anyways I agree that Invulnerability negation should be added, the vid lucky provided wasnt the example i was looking for but yeah the scan hyper and i provided justifies the ability
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he's not invincible anymore cuz the Pure Hearts nullified it, hence the inclusion of Power Null
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No one has Invulnerability hax; we literally had giant arguments about the requirements of true Invulnerability hax; and simply being super durable is not enough to qualify. Super Dimentio simply has 2-B durability that requires 2-B AP such as the Pure Hearts to harm. And when he called himself "Invincible" it's because he didn't know the power of the pure hearts could be restored by the power of love; which means that no one had use of Pure Hearts after they were already used up on Bleck. He said "Invincible" in the context of being second to none and not something like Invulnerability hax like Nasuverse characters have and what not.
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that doesn't make sense, as the Pure Hearts circling Dimentio and performin some bullshittery to remove his invincibility is a pivotal point in that fight
especially when you consider his model has special effects to indicate the difference before and after the Pure Hearts power null that
the statements he makes are just supporting evidence
especially when you consider his model has special effects to indicate the difference before and after the Pure Hearts power null that
the statements he makes are just supporting evidence
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Just going to link this page.
Invulnerability is the power to be immune to conventional harm.
Characters with such powers may simply be unaffected by normal attacks, necessitating the use of things like Durability Negation to get through. Others have more conditional invulnerability, such as one that just prevents harm from conventional weaponry, but can be easily circumvented by supernatural abilities. It can be considered the defensive equivalent of Durability Negation, negating simple Attack Potency, though one should be careful not to apply No Limits Fallacy.
This is distinct from simply particularly high durability, which may make a character seem invulnerable to weaker opponents. Only characters whose invulnerability is clearly more than simply being exceptionally durable for the verse's setting qualify.
Profiles whose invulnerability is limited to working on only certain kinds of attacks should have the ability listed as Limited and/or have the limitation described in their weaknesses sections.
Invulnerability is the power to be immune to conventional harm.
Characters with such powers may simply be unaffected by normal attacks, necessitating the use of things like Durability Negation to get through. Others have more conditional invulnerability, such as one that just prevents harm from conventional weaponry, but can be easily circumvented by supernatural abilities. It can be considered the defensive equivalent of Durability Negation, negating simple Attack Potency, though one should be careful not to apply No Limits Fallacy.
This is distinct from simply particularly high durability, which may make a character seem invulnerable to weaker opponents. Only characters whose invulnerability is clearly more than simply being exceptionally durable for the verse's setting qualify.
Profiles whose invulnerability is limited to working on only certain kinds of attacks should have the ability listed as Limited and/or have the limitation described in their weaknesses sections.
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there's nothing limited about Super Dimentio's invulnerability, aside from the fact Pure Hearts are the perfect counter to it
he's still powered by the Chaos Heart and can take attacks from the cast, even with the removal of his invincibility, so suggesting it only granted him high durability is ridiculous
the proof is pretty clear-cut, hombre
he's still powered by the Chaos Heart and can take attacks from the cast, even with the removal of his invincibility, so suggesting it only granted him high durability is ridiculous
the proof is pretty clear-cut, hombre
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There is still no proof that Super Dimentio has Invulnerability hax that implies even conventional attacks all the way up to like 1-A would have no effect; which is what Invulnerability implies. You're literally asking me to prove a negative; I was in the old discussions about Invulnerability revisions and this is nothing new. It's just attempting to repeat everything that has been told not to do.
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there is proof though, there's statements and in-game footage that you're choosin to disregard on the basis of the "site's standards"
if having invulnerability listed requires tanking attacks literal infinities beyond anything remotely shown in-verse coupled with statements, then that's a poor job on the site's part and every bastard that doesn't qualify should have it removed
if having invulnerability listed requires tanking attacks literal infinities beyond anything remotely shown in-verse coupled with statements, then that's a poor job on the site's part and every bastard that doesn't qualify should have it removed
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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I don't think multiple infinities worth of immunity to AP need to be demonstrated, just a reason as to why a character is invulnerable beyond "because the game says they are". Something like being stopped in time so attacks simply don't take effect, or existing outside of a logical framework in such a way that anything bound to logic is unable to harm you.
Granted, that's a pretty high bar to meet, but this is NLF as an ability we're talking about here.
Granted, that's a pretty high bar to meet, but this is NLF as an ability we're talking about here.
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I get that, but why go through the trouble when it's practically made to be as obvious as possible
Dimentio, upon becoming Super Dimentio, states he's invincible and that cast are incapable of doing anything against him. supported by the added effects to his model, and how nothing harms him in the slightest
when the Pure Hearts are used against him, he states he's no longer invincible, which is indicated by the lack of said effects on his model, and how he can be harmed
Dimentio, upon becoming Super Dimentio, states he's invincible and that cast are incapable of doing anything against him. supported by the added effects to his model, and how nothing harms him in the slightest
when the Pure Hearts are used against him, he states he's no longer invincible, which is indicated by the lack of said effects on his model, and how he can be harmed
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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You'd have to prove that he isn't just abnormally durable in this state. Like even if his durability was amped by trillions of times, that still wouldn't be invulnerability.
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Invulnerability is hax that negates conventional attacks and not durability. And "Invincible statements" or "Power ups that make you immune to all in game attacks" are not ground proof of invulnerability. What needs proof is that someone has passive AP nullification rather than outright raw power/durability. Chaos Heart behaves more like true power than it does nullification.
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This is why invulnerability is a fake ability
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it does negate conventional attacks
physical attacks don't work, and Bowser's fire breath doesn't either, and I wouldn't assume a 3-D character that's an infinity above another would be unharmed by fire if they ain't got a prior resistance
but you mean to tell me that with that shit, and everything else provided, can just be chalked up to game mechanics, or somethin?
bullshit, the thing is more than "true power" if it can bestow its user a passive forcefield
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He didn't say it was game mechanics, he's saying its durability.
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I read, but that's what it's feeling like to me
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Pixls, tools made by the ancients, Mario's attacks, Fire, Ice, & I'm pretty sure several elements & other things that are dubiously or definitely non-physical fail to work.
Likewise, I'm pretty confident any status effect inflicting items don't work. Like, Stop Watches & stuff. Fleep trying to flip it doesn't daze it like it would a regular enemy.
So it's certainly not just preventing conventional attacks. Boss or not, Super Dimentio in the form the story & characters & gameplay all call "invulnerable"/"invincible" doesn't get affected by anything that could be considered an attack, physical, conventional or otherwise.
& dare I ask what needs to be shown to demonstrate "Passive AP nullification"? Treat the "ATK" of all foes as 0 passively? Isn't that just passive Statistics Manipulation?
Also, what do you mean "true power"? AFAIK, we have no P&A called "true power".
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That's not nulling it; that's just it takes 0 damage because the raw barrier durability means it takes no damage.
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Aren't many of the things in SPM stuff that would circumvent such a barrier? Like Fleep, or several items where the attacks appear on the target?
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there is no "raw barrier", wdym
unless you're referrin to the forcefield on Count Bleck, in which there's a clear distinction between his own actual barrier and the fake "raw barrier" (which is just added effects) for Super Dimentio you mentioned
these just seem like excuses to discredit it
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Why would it be nulling it
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tf kind of question is that
his invincibility would be nulling anything they tried because he's invincible
his invincibility would be nulling anything they tried because he's invincible
Mephistus
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Nah. You can freeze them in time. Stop Watches work fine on both of them in either of their fight phases, I've tested it out since the strat is broken since they are helpless.
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adding to that, that would also be resistance instead
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My mistake. Any idea about the other statuses against "Invincible" Super Dimentio?
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This is circular. You're saying he has invulnerability because what he's doing is power nulling, and your explanation for him power nulling is that he's invincible
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The general assumption for characters taking 0 damage is still just high durability and none of that is evidence that it reduces enemy attacks to 0 as opposed to having high defense that that also resists attacks that pierce defense. Statements of being "Invincible" are also not evidence either.
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it's circular because you, and another, are making the assumption he's "power nulling" when that's very clearly not the case
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it isn't just statements though, but they definitely can act as evidence when supported by gameplay, so I don't understand how this is difficult to grasp
the only assumption being made is your side of the argument on how he only has "high durability", instead of just straight invulnerability
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Just being stated to be “invincible” isn’t Invulnerability as this site defines it.
So yeah I disagree.
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