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Wanted to Index it and tackle it with the AZ part.
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Minor additions for Cerberus :
- Thread starter SYPHe5D
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Spoonfeeding isn't necessary, the evidence just needs to be clear and IMO it isn't here. This sort of thing isn't really necessary.
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I guess if we were to look at the situation both in its wording and its context...
The wording being used, emphasised with the use of the word very, does imply a specific focus on the soul, and even the mention of souls in regards to freezing something either has to be referring to metaphysical soul hax, or just total and utter nonsense, not unlike saying you'll burn someone all the way down to their sense of fashion, which has to either mean the speaker has something absurdly wrong with their mind or that their fire somehow carries extra hax.
Throw in the fact that manipulating souls, and intangible objects that can still be interacted with, is so common that it's basically a default attachment to demon power, and there's a bit pointing at soul freezing here.
Returning to that admittedly stupid analogy of burning someone all the way down to their sense of fashion, the situation we have here is pretty close to the character making that above threat, which as said above has to either mean the speaker has something absurdly wrong with their mind or that their fire somehow carries extra hax. Now let's say that this statement take place in a verse where similar characters frequently remove aspects of people's minds including their way of thinking and their skills. In this analogy, we'd have a fair bit of reason to think the elemental attacks might have the extra hax, given that the exact same hax is attached to loads of things.
I know the analogy is long-winded and ridiculous, and I apologise for that. Still, the fact that the statement is either sheer nonsense or a hax claim, in a verse where that exact hax is everywhere, is worth considering.
The wording being used, emphasised with the use of the word very, does imply a specific focus on the soul, and even the mention of souls in regards to freezing something either has to be referring to metaphysical soul hax, or just total and utter nonsense, not unlike saying you'll burn someone all the way down to their sense of fashion, which has to either mean the speaker has something absurdly wrong with their mind or that their fire somehow carries extra hax.
Throw in the fact that manipulating souls, and intangible objects that can still be interacted with, is so common that it's basically a default attachment to demon power, and there's a bit pointing at soul freezing here.
Returning to that admittedly stupid analogy of burning someone all the way down to their sense of fashion, the situation we have here is pretty close to the character making that above threat, which as said above has to either mean the speaker has something absurdly wrong with their mind or that their fire somehow carries extra hax. Now let's say that this statement take place in a verse where similar characters frequently remove aspects of people's minds including their way of thinking and their skills. In this analogy, we'd have a fair bit of reason to think the elemental attacks might have the extra hax, given that the exact same hax is attached to loads of things.
I know the analogy is long-winded and ridiculous, and I apologise for that. Still, the fact that the statement is either sheer nonsense or a hax claim, in a verse where that exact hax is everywhere, is worth considering.
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I don't agree. For instance in one of the examples the phrase "dissolved down to the skeleton" meant that only the skeleton remained. In this instance it could mean that only the soul remains (the entire body is destroyed through freezing).
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Members on this thread have too much energy to over analyse and fret over simple sentences, same energy should be spent elsewhere where it will be productive.
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Agreed, we should simply apply Absolute Zero and move on to something more productive.
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That will be decided after necessary vote count is reached.
Bring in the other mods and get this circus over with.
Bring in the other mods and get this circus over with.
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Yeah I was being tongue in cheek, mirroring the comment I responded to.
There's no rush here, we can have more mods look at it in time.
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I'm weird, I analyse lots of things. The simple reasoning on soul manipulation is still that the ability is present everywhere, attached to not only demon's abilities but even to the entire demon world.
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Ummm... I'm pretty sure we accepted that Demons naturally are spiritual in nature so the abilities obviously works on spiritual scale as well duh
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Yeah not really seeing why the semantics argument is being made for the soul hax when it’s a common ability in the series. Feels like arbitrarily moving the goalpost to give a simple ability for a character. The soul hax and absolute zero stuff looks fine.
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Better to wait for a bit before you make any changes.
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AZ looks good, neutral on the Soul Manip and NPI.
TheGreatJedi13
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I agree with AZ and NPI
Soul manip im not really sure since being able to affect a soul is mostly NPI and not direct manipulation of it
Soul manip im not really sure since being able to affect a soul is mostly NPI and not direct manipulation of it
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- Thread starter
- #58
Well, I put soul manipulation since freezing the soul completely still counts as a manipulation of the said soul(at least to my knowledge) and it has been accepted before that all demons are capable of soul manipulation in the physiology page, so this works as more support of the said ability, feel free to correct me on that part, tho I assume that you are neutral on SM?
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TheGreatJedi13
Username Only- 5,004
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it could yeah knowing DMC and all
but it kinda puts a bad precedent to use this as reasoning for soul manipulation and can be seen as misleading for the ability itself. does he have any other feat that specifically his which is soul hax in anyway?
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Other than the freezing the very soul statement or bestowing his soul as a devil arm after he gets beaten ? No, but as general feats for the demons ? There is.
TheGreatJedi13
Username Only- 5,004
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the bestowing soul seems better then since its a manipulation which includes moving ones soul to an object or person.
- 763
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- Thread starter
- #63
Yeah all demons have Power Bestowal for that part, but The Cerberus already have showings of yeeting their soul and bestowing it as a Devil Arm.
Edit: time stamps ain’t working for some reason, it is 5:26 for the first video and 4:56 for the second one.
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Disagree with just NPI.
For all practical purposes the difference between NPI and any esoteric manipulation is illusiosary at best.
I don't want to get into manipulation vs npi debate rn, but let me just say this taht if we nitpick we can devolve any manipulation feat in fiction to be just a combination of NPI and some other hax.
Better not go that route.
Freezing soul should count as manipulation very easily, no need to so apprehensive in calling spade a spade.
For all practical purposes the difference between NPI and any esoteric manipulation is illusiosary at best.
I don't want to get into manipulation vs npi debate rn, but let me just say this taht if we nitpick we can devolve any manipulation feat in fiction to be just a combination of NPI and some other hax.
Better not go that route.
Freezing soul should count as manipulation very easily, no need to so apprehensive in calling spade a spade.
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This already has enough support so my thoughts aren't needed.
Regardless, I'm fine with Absolute Zero, and as for Soul Manipulation/Non-Physical Interaction part of it, this is something I can agree with simply because demons in this series can effect the soul. I wouldn't agree with the statement otherwise but the fact that it's a natural thing demons can do, I don't think Cerberus is just being flowery with his language otherwise he would just say "I'll freeze you" and leave it at that. He makes a threat and we know demons can interact with the soul so I don't have an issue with it.
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Thanks for the input, I assume it is fine to close this now ?
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