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Minecraft Revisions: New Abilities + Keys

GyroNutz

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Administrator
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Since story mode revisions are happening, I thought I'd take this chance to evaluate the in-game Minecraft mobs. No, this isn't a MHS+ revision thread so please don't bring it up here.

Abilities

  • Silverfish Pathfinding: When a silverfish is hit, it calls on other nearby silverfish. These silverfish pathfind through walls to wherever the attacker is. This should qualify for Enhanced Senses .
  • Undead Poison Resistance: This is on some of their profiles but not all. All undead mobs should have Resistance to Poison Manipulation. Currently, the Wither Skeleton, Zombie Pigman, Phantom and Zombie/Skeleton horses don't have this listed.
  • Large Ghasts: Ghasts are 4x4x4 metres on their main body, and have tentacles the size of the player. From their tentacle to the top of their body, they're more than 5m tall, so they should get Large Size (Type 0)
  • Small Mobs: Silverfish, Endermite, Small slimes, Baby Zombies + Zombie Pigmen all qualify for Small Size (Type 0 for everything but Silverfish and Endermite which are Type 1)
  • Guardian Abilities: First, they negate durability to an extent, as the protection that armour provides against their lasers is less than usual. For example, a laser could do 9 damage to an unarmoured player but 5 to a player in diamond armour, whereas usually this should be reduced to 2 damage. Secondly, not too sure what this is, but due to their thorns, attacking a Guardian with melee means you take damage as a result too. It does set damage, so again, durability negation. It's also worth mentioning that Elder Guardians can attack invisible players.
  • Evoker: Again, this is already on their profile. Evokers can negate durability, so they should get Durability Negation listed.
  • Endermen Shrieking: When you attack/provoke an Enderman you start to hear ominous sounds despite whether or not the Enderman has teleported elsewhere beforehand. This is Sound Manipulation.
  • Player's Summoning: The Player can create and summon Snow Golems and Iron Golems. Snow Golems should be part of the Early Game key and Iron Golems should be part of the late game key. This is Summoning.
AP Justifications
Now, I'm fine with the Snow Golem and Silverfish ratings. What I'm not fine with is most of the normal mobs. Most mobs are scaled from being able to withstand the heat of the Nether, "which is hot enough to instantly vaporize whole metric cubes of water". Trouble is, while that may be true in-game, there's really no way to know that. The most water that you canonically can take to the Nether at one time is buckets of water. One bucket of water = one water source block. So in essence, the Nether can only vaporise one water source block at a time in canon.

Volume for a water source block = 87.5cm (14 pixels high) x 100cm x 100cm = 875000cm^3. Vaporization of water: 2575 J/cm^3. So 2575 x 875000 = 2253125000J or 2.253125000 x10^9 Joules. This is Building level. Anything higher is just excessive.

Ok, so Building level confirmed right? Well yes, but the justifications need work. The Nether can vaporise water source blocks, not 'whole metric cubes of water' since there's no way to tell that without commands which aren't canon.

Furthermore, nether mobs such as Zombie Pigmen are given the same justification of being able to withstand the heat of the Nether. Ok... I'd be worried if they couldn't? These mobs can casually swim in lava and are resistant to heat; being affected by the Nether's heat would be an anti-feat. These Nether mobs should scale to being on par with, or superior to, the Skeleton, which doesn't have an inherit heat resistance. However, one mob that DOESN'T scale is the Ghast. It's a clear glass-cannon and is one of the few mobs that doesn't have 20 health or more, indicating that it is weaker (in terms of durability) than other mobs. The Ghast should be 9-A, or Small Building Level, in durability.

New Keys
Zombies and Skeletons can both spawn wearing full enchanted diamond armour. Not only is this the same stuff that makes Steve town level in durability, but Zombies are actually more durable than Steve. However, they can't spawn with weapons on par with Late Game Steve. Furthermore, the Skeleton's Bow, while it can be enchanted, it can't be enchanted on a level where it would be on par with Steve's. These mobs should get Town level durability but simply 'Higher' AP.

Finally, being able to kill Diamond Armoured mobs should be added to Iron Golem's justification as to why its Town level, and the fact that it seeks and patrols villages, along with being able to communicate with villagers, should be noted in its intelligence.

Conclusion

  • Ability additions for aforementioned mobs
  • Better justifications for Nether Mobs + more clarity on what the Nether vaporises in-game.
  • Diamond Armour Zombie + Skeleton keys with Town level durability
  • Ghast downgrade to Small Building level durability
  • Couple more justifications for Iron Golem's stats
 
Silverfish: Seems fine.

Skeleton: Seems okay? Less sure on this one.

Poison Resistance: Yes

Large Ghast: I guess? Seems unnessecary

Small Size: Unnessecary

Guardians: Looks fine.

Evoker: Okay?

Endermen Shrieking: Bit vague

Summoning: Seems fine.

8-C:1 source block = 1 metric meter cubed, don't know where you got metric meter means oceans.

Ghasts: I've been thinking the Silverfish and co. Shoild be upgraded since they can tank Nether heat just fine. Don't agree on downgrading Ghast dura though.

New Keys: Seems fine
 
Large Ghast: I guess? Seems unnessecary

Small Size: Unnessecary

Endermen Shrieking: Bit vague

8-C:1 source block = 1 metric meter cubed, don't know where you got metric meter means oceans.

Ghasts: I've been thinking the Silverfish and co. Shoild be upgraded since they can tank Nether heat just fine. Don't agree on downgrading Ghast dura though.

Why is it unnessecary to add something that hasn't been added yet to their profiles?

Vague as in don't have enough evidence or vague as in we don't know what causes it? Cause if it's the former I could get a clip?

Source blocks aren't a meter cubed, they're 14 pixels high whereas blocks are 16 pixels high. The nether hasn't been shown to instantly vaporize actual cubic meters of water

I disagree with the silverfish upgrade. They don't appear in the Nether naturally and are weaker comparatively to other mobs, in the same way that I don't think we should give base Steve an upgrade since he's not meant to be in the nether.
 
For Ghasts it's just them being slightly taller than average.

For Silverfish and Endermites, it's dirwctly stated on the Small Size page that it's unnnessecary.

Latter.

It's literally rounding up by 2 pixels.

That'a just me though.
 
I agree that the large size and small size ratings are likely unnecessary, but otherwise this seems fine.
 
Small size types 0 and 1 are not necessary, and large size type 1 does not seem warranted in this case.
 
Antvasima said:
Small size types 0 and 1 are not necessary, and large size type 1 does not seem warranted in this case.
Click to expand...
It was large size type 0, as the Ghast is above 5 metres
 
Well, if it is above 5 metres, large size type 0 seems fine.
 
Small size is a new page that was created by a regular member. It does not seem particularly noteworthy with characters the size of children and small animals.
 
I think that the latter alternative would be far too much work.
 
I could get rid of types 0 & 1, and rename the rest, but then you would have to adjust all the profiles that link to the Small Size page.
 
So far we have:

Agreed: Silverfish (Enhanced Senses), Skeleton (Lightning Resistance, more input possibly), Undead Mobs (Poison Resistance), Large Size Ghasts (Type 0), Guardian abilities, Evoker (Durability Negation), Player (Summoning), Zombies + Skeletons (Diamond Armour Keys)

Disagreed: Small Size for Silverfish + co.

More Discussion: Enderman Shrieking (likely not enough evidence), 8-C justifications, Ghast Durability Downgrade (for being a glass cannon + withstanding the nether heat not being a good enough feat for a heat resistant mob).
 
Okay. The agreed parts can probably be applied.
 
8-C can apply considering enemies can viably just wander into the Nether via portals, and are unaffected. These beings are not resistant to lava.

Ghast dura I should be reduced to 9-A.

7-C dura for mobs is likely just game mechanics more than anything. Much like enemies in God of War taking a hit or two wouldn't make them High 6-A dura.
 
I mean they can get there but they shouldn't be there. It should only apply to the Skeleton who naturally can spawn there, and all mobs that scale to it, imo

It's moreso because they're wearing the same armour type that allows Steve to easily take hits from mobs like the Wither and Ender Dragon. Note that 7-C dura for mobs only applies to diamond armour zombies and skeletons; normal mobs that can take hits from late game steve wouldn't scale
 
So you agree they can go in there in a normal fashion. But... you could be right. It'd be a pretty weird event for Silverfish to go in there, so maybe they should scale to 9-A still.

Oh. You mean specifically those in diamond armor. Alright, that I'm fine with since those mobs are literally infinitesimally rare.
 
I will unlock the profile for you. Tell me here when you are done.
 
No problem. Should we close this then?
 
We still have some things to discuss I believe, so we should probably keep this open until we decide what to do with the points still up for discussion
 
Silverfish: Seems fine

Skeleton: Too

Posion: Too

Sizes: I guess that was covered above

Guardian & Evoker: All they do is slightly bypass physical armor. This is not Durability Negation, since their attacks are still affected by it.

Enderman: This is just yelling really loud

Summoning: I guess

Disagree with downgrade on heat mobs. One meter cube is literally just a block. Also, all heat sources in the Nether such as fire, lava or Blazes are by default stronger than the natural heat of the Nether, so anyone capable of naturally tanking those should be 8-C.

New keys seems fine.
 
@Saik I think surpassing some amount of durability is the same as durability negation. It just somewhat negates Durability, not all of it.
 
An extremely negligible amount of it. Again, this only applies to physical armor. Normal durability wouldn't even be affected by this.
 
Obviously, yes. But it does negate some extent of external durability.
 
Still feel that this is way too much of a negligible thing to be worth mentioning in profiles. At best I'd put as "Can bypass armor to some degree".
 
Armor adds to durability. Like not even in a way that would be wanking or whatever, that's literally what this is. Even if its to a small degree, just like adding "Light Manip" for messing with the lights in a supernatural way.
 
Armor doesn't "add" to one's natural durability though. It's a layer of protection. We wouldn't give Durability Negation to something that is able to bypass forcefields or anything of the likes. This is the same, just applied to physical armor.
 
In the MC-verse (or whatever we call it), that is exactly what it does. It literally negates damage to the player. I fail to see how that wouldn't be durability negation to, as you said, a minimal degree.
 
It doesn't matter what it does in-game. It's still just armor, and the Guardians and Evokers are still only slightly bypassing armor.

Durability Negation would be hurting something beyond what your AP can do. This is just ignoring a layer of protection. It can't actually be used to negate regular durability, therefore it's not actually durability negation.
 
It is armor that adds to the character's durability. It allows the Guardian to damage the being beyond what their AP can normally do versus that durability. Again, I don't see the issue here.
 
"The ability that allows users to damage the target, regardless of its durability. In particular, enables causing serious damage to a very strong opponent, even in the absence of large attack potency. A good example of ignoring the strength would be a laser, which at negligible attack potency, easily cuts through thick steel sheets."

Since this armor literally adds to the user's durability, why would this not fall under this description, if only a little bit? "Armor Negation" is just as suitable, we can add that note that it only affects external armor, but that's what this is doing.
 
I am fine with Saikou's conclusions.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Guardian & Evoker: All they do is slightly bypass physical armor. This is not Durability Negation, since their attacks are still affected by it.

Disagree with downgrade on heat mobs. One meter cube is literally just a block. Also, all heat sources in the Nether such as fire, lava or Blazes are by default stronger than the natural heat of the Nether, so anyone capable of naturally tanking those should be 8-C.
Click to expand...
Feel like I should address these two points. The Evoker completely bypasses both armour and enchantments, so yes this is durability negation. The Guardians are whatever we decide ig

Yeah and source blocks aren't a meter cubed. Also, don't nether mobs have heat resistance for doing exactly that? That'd be like giving Geodude or any other weak ground type Island level durability for no-selling electric attacks from Raichu or any other strong electric type.

My suggestion is that we scale all mobs comparable to the Skeleton to its feat of being able to withstand nether heat just fine, since it doesn't have some explicit and obvious heat resistance already. The Ghast is a glass cannon who shouldn't scale to the Skeleton in durability, and since a heat resistant mob tanking heat isn't a feat, it should be downgraded.
 
Little Necro: I have a question what is the celsius of Nether Heat or Vaporization of water or 2253125000J or Building Level? specifically: Nether Heat or 2253125000J (because I asked several times in the past but no one answered - bad luck - I still don't know how to calc J to celsius srsly cuz calc fry my brain)

.# W A I T I R E A L L Y D O N T K N O W T O C A L C E D I T E V E R H E L P M E

Also: Should we also CRT MHS Speed? from here

But it seems some people replies to my post - starting here

.# I C A N T M A K E S P E E D C R T C U Z I T B O T H E R E D M E R E C A P P I N G A L O T
 
@David What are you talking about? We don't know how hot it is, merely that it is hot enough to instantly vaporize a cubic meter of water.
 
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