Midora(Toriko) vs Yhwach(Bleach)

[EnderShadowr215]

@GreatestSin I will have to disagree here as Midora did dodge a attack from Joie at close range without GL.

 

[Huesito88]

Yhwach for reasons above

 

[PaChi2]

I think we can agree that R1 is for Midora and R2 is the one up to debate? just asking, because most of the argunents for yhwach are from R2

 

[Damage3245]

@GreatSin

1) I know that speed is equalized; I was just pointing out that it just shows how much of a disadvantage Yhwach is in a straight match because he is massively weaker (and slower) than Midora.

2) Yhwach only his the Miracle in Round 2 and while it's Regenerationn feats are impressive, treating it as a No-Limits Fallacy is not wise. Pieces of Gerard's body were still there even if they were frozen, and though he seemed to reform from energy that doesn't mean he would be able to reform from being completely erased on an atomic level. Which Midroa can do.

3 / 4) Yhwach cannot teleport Midora's head away. And Midora's Minority World should theoretically help him out against The Zombie's control, or The Love's control. The majority-atoms obeying Yhwach would become the minority and stop obeying him.

5) Well, he could perform Damage Knocking on himself to stop attacks that Yhwach hit him with (seeing as he kept Starjun alive at a point when he should really be dead, it seems fair to say he has Damage Knocking), and he could also paralyze Yhwach, yes.

Yhwach is not going to have a chance to hit him with nerves, or injest his energy. He would literally die from one punch, and in the time it takes him to bring himself back to life, Midora would devour every atom of his existence. And then if Yhwach comes back, Midora will just devour him again.


EDIT: Besides the Yhwach of Round 2 is purely hypothetical. Yhwach has never demonstrated usage of any of the Sternritter's Schrifts during the series if he even has them at all, which I doubt he does frankly. His skill and usage of them are completely speculative.

Midora meanwhile has demonstrable feats for every single one of his powers.

 

[UzumakiKurisu]

^^ That's true. I have been quite skeptical of Yhwach being able to use the sternritter' abilities as he has never demonstrated any feats, so we don't even know to what extent he can use them IF he can even use them. Damage3245 is right that it is all speculation, and I think someone should make a separate thread to further discuss this topic.

 

[GreatestSin]

I think we can agree that R1 is for Midora and R2 is the one up to debate? just asking, because most of the argunents for yhwach are from R2

i personally go for inconclusive in R1 because ywach should be able to evade by speed equalall of midora attemps, but he cant kill midora, but it could go for midora too, and yeah, we talked about R2...

@damage

1) i think that is obvious, Midora is a freaking overkill badass, one of my favorite chars in Toriko and even in overall fiction, the pure strength and heart (f*ck he HAS emotions :O) are so awesome

2) but he came back from energy of the surroundings as well, his own body didnt need to be their for his consciousness to manipulate/absorb reishi and create his body, but i acknowledged that energy isnt the same as nothing, but hungry tongue never destroyed the person to nothing, it went down to atomic scale which is to little for energy-lvl regenerators...

3) why cant he do that? i mean, he did it with ichigos sword (plot protects bitchigo from getting oneshotted there), and MW requires conscious activation, but after being hit by the arrow or blood he would already be under ywachs control and unable to activate it :/

4 (is your 5)) it would work against regular attacks but stuff like zombie-blood or lover-arrow dont really damage :/

but why cant ywach control midoras nerves? the moment any of midoras body is close enough the nerves coming from ywachs body could enter and take control over his nerves, and for the energy: he doesnt need to direcly recieve the attack, he only needs to eat enough of it so narrowly evading it and ingresting enough would work too (which is possible thanks to allmightys foresight),

as for devouring (only if midora somehow managed to actually pull it off): ywach can create clones too (thanks to gremmys powers) who are on the same lvl as him so they could keep him occupied until he comes back and than the whole game starts again...

for the edit: ywachs profile says that it is possible and OP specially created such a round, so i dont see why we cant use ywach hypotethical peak :/

@uzumaki

this isnt a matter of "can ywach actually do this or not", the OP said that there is a round with ywach having all sternritter abilitys, so thats it, if it is possible can be discussed somewhere else that is somethign i agree with but for this thread that doesnt matter

 

[Damage3245]

You could hypothetically have a battle where Yhwach has all of the Sternritter abilities (I disagree with Yhwach's profile on it though) but even if Yhwach were to win like that, I don't think it would be worth putting on their profiles.

It requires too many assumptions.

Yhwach's powers are not as limitless as they appear (just as Gremmy's is not as limitless as he boasted). Yhwach plainly cannot just snap his fingers and his opponent will just keel over and die in front of him. If he were capable of that, he would not have lost so easily to Ichigo and Aizen.

 

[GreatestSin]

^the only assumption is that we allow ywach to have the abilitys of the sternritters, any other ability i used was shown by other sternritters as well, and considering ywach gave them this powers in the first place there is no reason to think that he cant at least use them on the lvl as his servants did...

 

[UzumakiKurisu]

@GreatestSin Well I'm the OP, and I have removed round 2 since it's kinda iffy. We will now only go by what they both displayed from their respective manga.

 

[GreatestSin]

well, that makes all the discussions worth nothing :I

ok, than i go for inconclusive while tending for midora to win i dont think that ywach would get hit thanks to his foresight (and with speed equal)...

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

@Faisal: Just found the thread and it was 17 days ago. And yeah, it was a mess of a thread.
Yhwach is the strongest HST character? People are going to be triggered.

Edit: Anyway, I'll also vote Midora due to reasons above. Toriko is a really hax verse. I wish the anime didn't get butchered.

I can smell rage of the people who would get triggered xD But yeah, Yhwach is without a doubt the strongest HST character

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

^the only assumption is that we allow ywach to have the abilitys of the sternritters, any other ability i used was shown by other sternritters as well, and considering ywach gave them this powers in the first place there is no reason to think that he cant at least use them on the lvl as his servants did...

Most sternritter abilities are limited in the magnitude. For example, Pernida can control nerves which is impressive by HST standard but characters in Toriko can control all 300 trillion cells in their body. Thing is, Bleach hax is limited in showing whereas Toriko chars have far better demonstration of their abilities (like Midora dodging Gourment spank with food luck which has higher surface area than entire Earth). It's not just the number of hax, it's the quality and demonstration of hax which determines fight. For example, Almighty is easy to label as NLF whereas Mirror Neuron has copied two very good hax (Minority World and Food Luck). Bleach hax abilities have limited showings and the good ones are often restricted by PIS (like Gremmy's visionary).

 

[The4Godlike]

Bleach hax abilities have limited showings and the good ones are often restricted by PIS (like Gremmy's visionary).

Lille Barro's X-Axis makes him intangible ( and as for me non/corporeal because of X-Axis's Nature ) and allows him to penetrate everything between him and his target which occurs instantaneous.

Askin Nakk Le Vaar's Death Dealing allows him to control the lethal dosage of whatever he wants , he can poison you with your own Reiatsu / Amount of Blood / Amount of the Matters in Blood and etc. And if he takes your attacks to some extent , he gains immunity against you and any of your attacks can't harm him anymore.

Gerard Valkyrie's Miracle allows him to control the feelings , desires and thoughts of the masses.His body symbolizes the Fear of the masses and if it were to harmed , he stands stronger.His blade symbolizes the Hope of the masses and if it were to harmed , his enemy will take damage.Maybe he can control some other things like Love , Sadness but we won't be able to know.

Gremmy Thoumeaux's Visionary is the most broken power in Bleach.What he imagines becomes reality.He lost Kenpachi because of his body.If he had imagined a body that can bear that much power , he would destroy Kenpachi.

Jugram Haschwalth's Balance allows him to control all misfortune and fortune before him.For example he can destroy a stick or stone and can redirect its misfortune to you so you will be destroyed as well.He should be able to something like this.

Yhwach's Almighty allows him to change future.

Ichibei Hyosube's power is to control all Darkness and he can change your name just splashing his darkness to you.

Hitsugaya Toshiro's power allows him to freeze everything before him and what he freezes lost their powers.

Aizen Sosuke controls all your senses and has infinite evolution.

Nianzol Weizol's Wind allows him to bend any attack he sees so what he sees becomes unable to harm him anymore.

Baraggan Loisenbairn.If he touches you with his Respira once , you are done unless you cut the part of you where he touched.

These are what i remembered for now.And i don't think these are Limited Showing as you said.

 

[PaChi2]

I believe, and I may be wrong but, you messed The Miracle, wanked a little bit Aizen for his "infinite evolution", explained Respira wrong and abused the terms "all" and "everything" too much, leading into the NLF territory.

 

[Damage3245]

Bleach has impressive hax, certainly, but where they lack is the speed and power department.

In a straight fight, Midora could use his 'Meteor Burst' to either obliterate his opponenet or knock them into space. (Even Acacia was sent into space before he could deflect the attack.)

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Bleach has impressive hax, certainly, but where they lack is the speed and power department.
In a straight fight, Midora could use his 'Meteor Burst' to either obliterate his opponenet or knock them into space. (Even Acacia was sent into space before he could deflect the attack.)

Speed? dude there the fastest out of the hst bruh, power yes but Speed+Hax is really all you need nowadays

 

[Damage3245]

Fastest of the HST, yes (though Naruto top-tiers have decent reaction times), but that's still nothing compared to the level of DBZ and Toriko.

 

[Battlemania]

DBZ is obviously the fastest of the bunch, Toriko in a DISTANT SECOND, being FTL and all, but speed is equalized, so speed doesn't matter.

 

[The4Godlike]

I believe, and I may be wrong but, you messed The Miracle, wanked a little bit Aizen for his "infinite evolution", explained Respira wrong and abused the terms "all" and "everything" too much, leading into the NLF territory.

This is what Bleach sucks at.

These powers are not showed to their full extent.So it leads these explanations to NLF territory as you said.

 

[PaChi2]

That happens when you have too many characters and instead of showing the abilities you give nlf explanations for their powers, blame Kubo for that.

 

[Battlemania]

Can we close this then? It seemed to have de-railed from the true purpose of the thread...