Midora(Toriko) vs Yhwach(Bleach)

[PaChi2]

^Toxics/nerves are no problem for gourmet cells imo, they have reactive evolution for biological thingys. Gremmy's abilitie is limited by the difference in power of the two combatants, he lost because zaraki was too much for him to handle (a PIS weakness, yet, a weakness) and also putting Midora in galaxy room would be really difficult imo, he has escaped the can trick befre it was completed, so i doubt he would fall for that. About the blood... well...he could always cut any affected part and regenerate it, or simply destroy it just lile he did with the bacteria (joie's)... X-Axis hasnt shown AoE enough to be a problem, he can regenerate just fine. Note that Yhwach needs to finish really quickly the fight because the longer it takes the more ailities will midora copy.

 

[GreatestSin]

^it isnt like normal poisen, he would activey control the lvl of its intensity and change it however he wants, he ywach eat enough of midora gourmet cells (which is possible thanks to allmightly teleportation) he could even turn the gourmet cells itself into poisen, and if midora attacks with energy attacks ywach could eat themtoo and turn even that energy into poisen (which is also the fuel of basically every ability he has),

the nerves are durability-ignoring, they will take control of the body, im not so sure if gourmet cells showed the ability to stop something liekt hat :/

the blood is also not like a virus, the moment it touches you it will turn you into a zombie, only way is to prevent getting touched but that will be hard with yachs future manipulation...

gremmy did open either a ortal to the outer space or into a vacuum space, either way, it could be possible to BFR midora who wont really be able to escape due to allmightly foreseeing all his actions and opening the space at the best possible place,

xaxis was spammed into a large beam, the last attempt of lille before it got reflected, so a AoE feat is present

and it is not like midora automatically copies any ability immediatly, he needs time which (as we saw with joie )take time and mostlikely a lot of "recieving the ability directly via attacks

 

[EnderShadowr215]

^That is negated as Midora can breath in space so that was a muted point. He can also move in it as he was used to the gravityless environment.

Edit: Not to mention he even copied Minority World from his other adoptive brother, Ichiryu.

 

[GreatestSin]

^where was that shown?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@GreatestSin In the Cooking Festival Arc.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

The fight between Midora and Ichiryu was on a stray island that is actually float far above the skys of Gourmet World as shown here, but we getting off topic here.


A fight has occurred on one of the floating islands.

Note: This also happened in the manga in chapter 247.

 

[GreatestSin]

The fight between Midora and Ichiryu was on a stray island that is actually float far above the skys of Gourmet World as shown here, but we getting off topic here.
Note: This also happened in the manga in chapter 247.

thanks for the chapter number but i have read the chapter again and they never said that they are on a place where no air exists, they fight in very high places which means that midra and ichiriyuu can effortlessly fight where breathing should become heavy but "no air" was never mentioned :/

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@GreatestSin How else can you explain that Ichiryu said these islands are floating as a wandering floating island? These stray islands have no gravity as it is and he did hinted that when he named the islands for the first time though it was already named before, there might have little to none air in a environment like that.

 

[GreatestSin]

^torikos world doesnt really follow physics (afterall if you are right than how could ichiryuu and midora talk?), so if it isnt stated i dont think it is outer space,

otherwise this 3 other beings who had been on the island with a capture lvl of 4.5 and 6 hundred would also be able to survive in outer space...

 

[EnderShadowr215]

^Ichiryu use Minority World in that case and as you stated it wasToriko's world doesn't follow the laws of physics. Not to mention Toriko and his partner did the task of getting the Ozone Herb.

Edit: Yes, they can breath in outer space.

 

[GreatestSin]

^that effect is only temporary, he already said "just after eating AIR", that means that only right after eating it (the healing stays forever but the "no oxygen" has a timelimit) you will have this powers which vanish after some time...

but even if im wrong and the effect os permanent, the timelimit is said to be a day, and midora cant come back if ywach manages to BFR him so in the end it would still be his victory

 

[PaChi2]

Still not seeing Yhwach BFRing him... Joie tried it and failed miserably (second time, but the first I believe Midora didnt try to avoid it). And its not like Yhwach wpuld have prep or knowledge so the moment Midora starts with MW (which is in character) Yhwach is going to get shocked (the whole organ failing thing) and killed quickly since midora can kill him in one shot.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@GreatestSin You are wrong as the effects are permanent and you are just down playing Midora here as Coco stated that after eating Air, you can survive in a place without oxygen for a few days.

Edit: The Horse King did not breath for thousand of years showing it is permanent.

 

[The_Wandering_Shepherd]

Allmight, X-axis and Visionary won't work properly due to Minority World and the rest of the Sternritter offensive abilities won't be reaching Midora thanks to his Gourmet Luck. He even evaded a continet sized attack with pure Gourmet luck.

http://********.me/manga/toriko/vTBD/c384/15.html

 

[UzumakiKurisu]

Midora: PaChi2, Battlemania, Midora-sama, Damage3245, Starkiller215, Faisal Shourav, The Wandering Shepherd

That's 7 for Midora, and the rest who voted are split between rounds. I think it's safe to say Midora takes this, so can it be added to their profiles now?

 

[KuuIchigo]

Didn't we have a Midora vs the HST and he won? I don't see how Yhwach can win by himself if Midora can beat the HST by himself.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Didn't we have a Midora vs the HST and he won? I don't see how Yhwach can win by himself if Midora can beat the HST by himself.

That was a long time ago and it was a poor quality thread from what I rememeber. This one justifies Midora's win since Yhwach is the strongest HST char

 

[Battlemania]

From what I remember, Ichi

it was discontinued as a giant mess of a thread. Mostly saw statements in favor that was very poor or much, much guesswork. Yet, now that we seen Midora fully in action now (given that Midora is done fighting alone and hasn't copied anything) and bleach is ended, I think the guesswork is turned down a bit.

 

[M11UTD]

Midora, superior speed, dc, durability and broken hax (hungry tongue that can eat even atoms, gourment luck, minority world) he's just too much for any hst character

 

[Belphegory]

Yhwach both rounds. He simply uses Almighty, removes Midora's powers and gives it to himself.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Yhwach both rounds. He simply uses Almighty, removes Midora's powers and gives it to himself.

Almighty doesn't remove powers, Sankt Altar does. Midora can dodge Sankt Altar with Food Luck then copy Almighty with Mirror Neuron.

 

[Belphegory]

Round 1: I don't know much about Midora but I know people are saying he takes forever to copy, so by then Yhwach can use Yamamoto's Bankai to erase him from existence.

Round 2: Yhwach can use the Visionary to imagine Midora's dead and not coming back.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Round 1: I don't know much about Midora but I know people are saying he takes forever to copy, so by then Yhwach can use Yamamoto's Bankai to erase him from existence.
Round 2: Yhwach can use the Visionary to imagine Midora's dead and not coming back.

Midora has Food Luck which is probability manipulation (opponent's attacks miss while his doesn't). Yhwach will be lucky to get a single hit (Midora can instantly regenerate his body, including head). Visionary is completely useless on stronger opponents as seen during Gremmy vs Kenpachi (Midora is 5-A while Yhwach is 5-B)

If you haven't read both manga then it's advised you read before commenting, you're severely lacking knowledge on Midora

 

[GreatestSin]

Still not seeing Yhwach BFRing him... Joie tried it and failed miserably (second time, but the first I believe Midora didnt try to avoid it). And its not like Yhwach wpuld have prep or knowledge so the moment Midora starts with MW (which is in character) Yhwach is going to get shocked (the whole organ failing thing) and killed quickly since midora can kill him in one shot.

ywach will have the miracle which regenerates him stronger than before even if there is nothing left of him...and BFR would work since ywachs and joies methods are completly different, the latter sealed him in a objects which he was able to destroy(after copying gourmet luck), we cant say that he can do it to every BFR mthod there is...

@Starkiller

coco only said that it allows to survive for a day, and we dont know if it truly is forever since horse king =/= midora...

PS: arent the arguments in favor for midora a bit to NLF? he can dodge thanks to gourmet luck? how? GL only showed to work after midora activates it, how can he know what ywach did with allmighty?

copy-powers: we dont know the specifics, i still accept that he could copy abilitys but it takes time, time which ywach wouldnt allow him to have,

minorty world is another issue: we can only use what he showed, otherwise we go NLF, so, what did MW show that would allow him to kill ywach?

im not really that much a ywach-fan, midora is billion times more badass but please stay objective, nobody proved to me how midora could dodge stuff he never could foresee, and nobody explained to me how ywach could die...

allmightly will make it impossible for midora to suprise ywach even if he uses hungry tongue, and in R2 even if he manages to eat ywach, thanks to "the miracle" he will come back, to boot, ywach can eat midora energy attacks and turn appetite energy itself into lethal poisen for midora (the same thing as askin did to yoruichis reiatsu

 

[PaChi2]

Copy powers can be used for battle since midora did it to Ichiryu, yhwach cannot eat midoras attack since any attack will kill him. The miracle didnt regenerate from nothing. Yhwach cant flick his fingers and bfr, he needs time to prep his Galaxy room, which midora can perfectly avoid. If it was other BFR method, yeah, but gslaxy room isnt instantaneous. Btw, we already stated how would midora kill yhwach, and the miracle didnt regenerate from nothing, gerard was only shattered when frozen.

Pd: the arguments fot yhwach are the closer to NLF since Almighty is almost a NLF on his own.

 

[KuuIchigo]

@Faisal: Just found the thread and it was 17 days ago. And yeah, it was a mess of a thread.

Yhwach is the strongest HST character? People are going to be triggered.

Edit: Anyway, I'll also vote Midora due to reasons above. Toriko is a really hax verse. I wish the anime didn't get butchered.

 

[GreatestSin]

Copy powers can be used for battle since midora did it to Ichiryu, yhwach cannot eat midoras attack since any attack will kill him. The miracle didnt regenerate from nothing. Yhwach cant flick his fingers and bfr, he needs time to prep his Galaxy room, which midora can perfectly avoid. If it was other BFR method, yeah, but gslaxy room isnt instantaneous. Btw, we already stated how would midora kill yhwach, and the miracle didnt regenerate from nothing, gerard was only shattered when frozen.
Pd: the arguments fot yhwach are the closer to NLF since Almighty is almost a NLF on his own.

it still takes time, copy powers wont happen like "oh, you used a power, now i have it too alongside total mastery",

he needs to eat the energy,that doesnt mean he needs to be hit by it, with allmighty he will easily foresee such a move...

true, after rereading the chapter, miracle cant regen from nothing but at least it recreated itself out of energy: http://i7.***********.net/bleach/672/bleach-7482997.jpg which he absorbed from the surroundings...and in the first place, thanks to future manipulation/sight midora wont even be able to hit ywach...

it doesnt need prep time, gremmy created it after creating a few more clones (which ywach can do too)http://i1.***********.net/bleach/578/bleach-4920411.jpg

http://i1.***********.net/bleach/578/bleach-4920413.jpg

and midora cant avid it since ywach would know how he wants to do it and simply create space at that place too...

and sorry if i overlooked it but no, i didnt see actual reasons,

people only say GL will prevent being attacked even via allmightly and also allow midora to always hit (which is NLF),

Minority world will counter everything from ywach (which is NLF),

hungry tongue will eat him (which is possible but how should he do that if ywach can foresee every move of midora (including the resulting injuries if he steps in one of his traps)),

and copy powers will copy all of ywachs abilitys (which takes time that seem to be 5 to 10 minutes, and ywach would know about that since he sees the future so he would end the fight as fast as possible),

and i agree that ywachs powers can easily tend to become NLF, but im trying to only use what he showed, it is as if people NLF midora but call out the moment someone uses NLF on ywach :/

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@GreatestSin Coco after eating AIR literally states: "So you could spend dozens of hours in the sea or spend a few days in a place where there's no oxygen." We not gonna blatantly and blindly disregard that as you are doing right now.

@Kuu You can close this thread now as that is 9 votes for Midora.

 

[GreatestSin]

^did i ever say that he cant breath? i said that there is a timelimit given, and the argument that "horse king can do it...yeah, midora can do it too" is simply not working (but that doesnt matter anyway, once midora is BFRed ywach wins anyway so even if midora doesnt need oxygen at all, it wont change anything)

and Kuu, you shouldnt close this thread yet since nobody actually have real reasons for their arguments for midora :/

 

[EnderShadowr215]

^ Everyone provide enough real reasons to how Midora can win even the evidence was clearly shown here. Also all the four heavenly kings eat AIR as Coco was among them after all so that is rather a muted point as he even said a considerable of hours without breathing.

 

[GreatestSin]

^no actually they didnt, most of the arguments i saw simply said that gourmet luck will simply deflect any and all incoming attacks from ywach (which i already refuted at least once), than said the MW would stop any attack (which is NLF, we can only use the shown powers of MW...otherwise midora could literally do anything :/), than people said he copys powers (which takes time and ywach will know of that ability since he sees the future so he will end the fight fast), and some talked about hungry tongue (which i already refuted too),

so...not really that convincing arguments, plus, the AIR-thingy: it can go either way, i never said that the outer space would kill midora(at least it isnt what i intended), i used it as a BFR-ing argument, and it doesnt matter if midora never needs oxygen anymore but "being BFRed" still works...

 

[Battlemania]

I don't even think Galaxy room would even BFR Midora since even Kenpachi was able to escape, capable of slicing space. What is it to say that he doesn't eat through the galaxy room and simply escape?

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Minority World

@GreatestSin Really? You did not refute the hungry tongue which will create hungry space. In Toriko, Chapter 292 in page 5-7 is where it was shown the rest of the Four Heavenly king eating Air and even Toriko on the previous chapter eaten Air. Minority World was used to deflect Acacia's attacks right back to him. Gourmet Luck made him dodge Acacia's spank which it was a continental attack by the look of it.

 

[Damage3245]

Dammit, I just posted a bullet-pointed list about why Midora is better in every way than Yhwach, and it failed to post.

To reiterate:

1) Midora is faster in both combat speed and travel speed than Yhwach; equalizing speed just shows how much of a disadvantage Yhwach is at.

2) Midora has better physical feats in every category than Yhwach; including strength, speed, durability, endurance, reflexes, stamina, and Regenerationn, etc. Yhwach could not survive even a single punch from Midora.

3) Midora's Gourmet Luck is sufficient to deflect planetary-level attacks and to this point in the story has not ran out yet. So he has enough reserves to block any hax Yhwach could attempt.

4) Midora has Minority World, which is a whole category of hax by itself; able to reflect attacks, slow movements, shut down organs, inflict death, and erase opponents on an atomic level. He can also boost his Regenerationn with it.

5) Midora knows Knocking, the full extent of which is unknown but is still impressive by itself that he can use it.

 

[GreatestSin]

@Battle

hungry tongue never ate space itself, this is its describtion: http://h.mfcdn.net/store/manga/3660/28-250.0/compressed/mtoriko_250_009.jpg, so midora cant escape (and this is only if we assume galaxy space is a pocket dimension or so, if it is a prtal to the outer space midora will be in unabletocome back even if he had the power to"eat space")

@starkiller

i did to battle as i said, having need or no need for oxygen doesnt matter actually, it was only a topic that was worth discussing not like it would change the fact that midora gets BFRed, MW and gourmet luck: neither showed the skill to stop a attack that the user couldnt see, they arent automatic, so ywach teleporting midora head from his shoulders (or teleporting a heart-controlling-arrow into his body or his zombie-transformation-blood) would simply happen and midora wont be able to stop it, only because energy attacks fail we cant assume it works on all kinds of attacks (exspecially if their usage always required conscious activation)

@Damage

1) speed is equal

2) ywach has the miracle which is up to the scale where he can come back with pure energy, that is beyond any regen feat midora showed, i agree that he is has higher other stats but hax overcomes durability :/

3) GL only works on attacks if it used on them, how can midora foresee that he gets his head teleported away from his head at some point in the future? and that isnt the only thing, some other abilitys of the sternritters will simply turn midora into a servant (like the heart-control power from that flying fat quincy)

4) same problem as with GL, it only works on conscious things, otherwise ichiryuu wouldnt have this happened to him: http://h.mfcdn.net/store/manga/3660/28-249.0/compressed/ftoriko_249_016.jpg

5)...and how could it help him? (suspend ywach, yes, but ywach would foresee this, and furthermore, thanks to pernidas power he could control midora nerves, and by eating some of midoras energy he could make the very energy that fuels midoras attacks into poisen)

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@GreatSin Starjun used Gourmet Luck after he was attacked and fatally wounded as shown here.The description for Midora's Hungry Tongue was this: His Hungry Tongue is revealed not only to consume solid objects, but absolutely every single atom its tip touches, swallowing even the air itself and thus leaving vacuums in the paths of trajectory it takes, tubular vacuums Midora pours his voracious Appetite Energy into to transform them into what he calls Hungry Space.

Starjun was able to make Toriko eat God and center.

 

[GreatestSin]

^? what have "being able to use GL after getting fatally wounded" and "stopping attacks that cant be seen/felt/prepared for" to do with each other? im saying that GL never showed automatic activation, it always required conscious use which only works against attacks that the user can see...

and i know what in the descibtion is written, i posted the page too, but nowhere it says that it destroys space or the like, it goes at atomic lvl, which (as far as i understood Regenerationn) is still to little compared to someone who can regen himself with oure energy, but even if not, ywach can foresee every possible future, so he will kow where hungry tongues aftereffects are and easily evade them...

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@GreatestSin Regardless though we will discuss this later on another thread (A general discussion thread will be preferable) as no need to further derailing the thread here.

 

[Sotomaru]

lol, yhwach easily wins due to all of his hax cant say much midora has some hax as well but their hax cant even be compared lol.

 

[GreatestSin]

@GreatestSin Regardless though we will discuss this later on another thread (A general discussion thread will be preferable) as no need to further derailing the thread here.

the AIR thingy can be discussed in the toriko thread, im also interested if we take it as permanent power or temporary

but what about the fight, would you agree that ywachwins in R2 due to hax?