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MG; Physiology Page Discussion

Jerga thrusts the <Ask> sword straight at me but I parry it with <Beno Ieven> and pierce his chest with my right hand .

“<Bebuzud> . ” (Arnos)

I squeeze his magical body with my Origin Killer coated hand . The light around my hand explodes and scatters causing Jerga to disappear without a trace .

Almost instantly the light overhead gathers and pours down creating another Jerga magic body .

“Fumu . It seems I can’t grasp his origin this way after all . ” (Arnos)

“Seems like you understand . This body <Jerga> is magic . It’s the very order of the world itself . It cannot perish . ” (Jerga)

That matches up with my hypothesis .

Here it explains that destroying someone's source also makes their magic disappear:

Normally, if your origin disappears so does your magic so just before an opponents attack you send <Agronemut> to the future using <Lebaido> where it regenerates your origin .

Here Jerga is obviously overestimating himself (saying that he would survive Venuzdonoa), but it still says about conceptual destruction (the "its concept" refers to Jerga):

The flame pillar swells from the inside and an intact huge armoured figure walks out .

“I’ve already said <Jerga> is immortal . Even if you had your sword you can’t keep erasing its concept forever . The destruction of the mazoku is fated!!” (Jerga)

“What? Now that would just spoil the fun . ” (Arnos)

“Shut your mouth!!”

Jerga once again says he's part of the world's Order:

Jerga’s magical body shines brightly and shrugs <Jirasudo> off .

“My hatred has become part of the world’s order!! The humans and heroes resent the mazoku and will destroy them . That is the correct order of this world! No matter what you do you have no choice but to atone for your sins!!” (Jerga)

Is this enough?
 
Thanks for the scans.
Motivation_L2LR1 said:
Jerga thrusts the <Ask> sword straight at me but I parry it with <Beno Ieven> and pierce his chest with my right hand .

“<Bebuzud> . ” (Arnos)

I squeeze his magical body with my Origin Killer coated hand . The light around my hand explodes and scatters causing Jerga to disappear without a trace .

Almost instantly the light overhead gathers and pours down creating another Jerga magic body .

“Fumu . It seems I can’t grasp his origin this way after all . ” (Arnos)

“Seems like you understand . This body <Jerga> is magic . It’s the very order of the world itself . It cannot perish . ” (Jerga)

That matches up with my hypothesis .

Here it explains that destroying someone's source also makes their magic disappear:

Normally, if your origin disappears so does your magic so just before an opponents attack you send <Agronemut> to the future using <Lebaido> where it regenerates your origin .

Here Jerga is obviously overestimating himself (saying that he would survive Venuzdonoa), but it still says about conceptual destruction (the "its concept" refers to Jerga):

The flame pillar swells from the inside and an intact huge armoured figure walks out .

“I’ve already said <Jerga> is immortal . Even if you had your sword you can’t keep erasing its concept forever . The destruction of the mazoku is fated!!” (Jerga)

“What? Now that would just spoil the fun . ” (Arnos)

“Shut your mouth!!”

Jerga once again says he's part of the world's Order:

Jerga’s magical body shines brightly and shrugs <Jirasudo> off .

“My hatred has become part of the world’s order!! The humans and heroes resent the mazoku and will destroy them . That is the correct order of this world! No matter what you do you have no choice but to atone for your sins!!” (Jerga)

Is this enough?
Click to expand...
 
Literally nothing posted here is ANY degree of regeneration, let alone high-godly. You've proven that some characters can survive source destruction, but you have not proven that they can recreate their sources from nothing, which is what you need for high-godly.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Literally nothing posted here is ANY degree of regeneration, let alone high-godly. You've proven that some characters can survive source destruction, but you have not proven that they can recreate their sources from nothing, which is what you need for high-godly.
Click to expand...
What ? Are you even reading what's other people are providing?
I squeeze his magical body with my Origin Killer coated hand . The light around my hand explodes and scatters causing Jerga to disappear without a trace .

Almost instantly the light overhead gathers and pours down creating another Jerga magic body .
Click to expand...
“I’ve already said <Jerga> is immortal . Even if you had your sword you can’t keep erasing its concept forever . The destruction of the mazoku is fated!!” (Jerga)
Click to expand...
　With a crack, Anahem's divine body cracked, and so the root and all shattered.

　He was destroyed.
　Shin, however, kept his eyes on his surroundings
Click to expand...
　White sand gathered there and formed a human figure.
　For a moment, the sand seemed to turn into gears, and then Anahem, the god of demise, appeared again.
Click to expand...
At this point you are clear cut ignoring the scans. If you want to disagree with this. Feel free to make a seperate downgrade CRT. We know how to takle you there. Not gonna waste anymore time regarding this which is already accepted as high godly regeneration.
 
I reread the first scan and it does say he rebuilds his BODY, but nothing about his source. Your latest post is also posting scans out of order to look like he recovered from source destruction, when really, only his body did that.

The text even says Anos cant "grasp" his source, which seems to heavily imply Anos couldn't affect it at all, so him regenerating it is even more sus.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I reread the first scan and it does say he rebuilds his BODY, but nothing about his source. Your latest post is also posting scans out of order to look like he recovered from source destruction, when really, only his body did that.

The text even says Anos cant "grasp" his source, which seems to heavily imply Anos couldn't affect it at all, so him regenerating it is even more sus.
Click to expand...
Feel free to drop the downgrade thread 🗣️
 
Is the concern that HGR is false for every character in MG or what again?
 
ImmortalDread said:
What exactly are you downgrading? All HGR stuff in MG?
Click to expand...
Not all of it, probably. Some stuff I mentioned here would need to go entirely, like the HGR for gods and spirits, social influencing for gods, and so on. There's someone I wanna double check with before I get started though so it may be a couple days.
 
Is this someone, a staff member? Because I assume, I know the person. But alright, good luck downgrading the whole Verse's HGR.
But I hope you are at least knowledgeable member of the verse mechanics. ;/

Anyway, for this thread, @Tatsumi504 are you working on the references part?
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Literally nothing posted here is ANY degree of regeneration, let alone high-godly. You've proven that some characters can survive source destruction, but you have not proven that they can recreate their sources from nothing, which is what you need for high-godly.
Click to expand...
Bruh, nobody can survive source destruction. It's the concept of their existence. Source destruction= byebye forever without HGR
 
The concept of “source” is a fundamental aspect of the Mauo Gakuin. The ability to survive or regenerate from it is a key defining characteristic of HGR. If source exists, this constitutes MGR.

It should be noted that the concept of “source” is described as a form of conceptual existence. Those who have watched anime (assuming you did not) may be familiar with the idea of “true death,” which is defined as the destruction of source.

It is important to differentiate between normal death and true death, as they are not equivalent in the context of our verse. This difference is a fundamental aspect of the mechanics of our verse.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I reread the first scan and it does say he rebuilds his BODY, but nothing about his source. Your latest post is also posting scans out of order to look like he recovered from source destruction, when really, only his body did that.
Click to expand...
Jerga is is magic itself. His source itself was transformed into "Demon Condemnation" <Jerga>. Destroying him is equivalent to destroying his source.

Are you ignoring the one about anahem?
With a crack, Anahem's divine body cracked, and so the root and all shattered.

　He was destroyed.
　Shin, however, kept his eyes on his surroundings
　White sand gathered there and formed a human figure.
　For a moment, the sand seemed to turn into gears, and then Anahem, the god of demise, appeared again.
Click to expand...
You say he's regenerating his body and nothing about his source was mentioned but you can't exist without your source. It's your very essence and what makes you who you are (a concept), no one is exempt from this rule even gods.

The destruction of the source is equivalent to the death of your present and all future selves.
 
Once again, i still disagree about spirits being AE 2.

It's said they are the "embodiment of rumors and lore" not that they "embody rumors and lore".

Just because the word "embody" is used does not disqualify something as AE 1. One is a noun while the other is a verb.

https://wikidiff.com/embodiment/embody

Even our own definition of abstract existence actually uses "embody" as a verb.
Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, or information, and being immortal thanks to it.
Click to expand...
AE 2 merely grants immortality based on an abstraction. Spirits are the abstraction themselves given that they are the embodiment of rumor and lore and they even seize to exists when their rumors do as well.
 
Embodiment of rumors is other word of "they embody rumors", Tatsumi.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I reread the first scan and it does say he rebuilds his BODY, but nothing about his source.
Click to expand...
Jerga's body is made of magic, in the scan right below that one it is said that magic disappears if the source disappears, Anos used a magic that specifically interacts with the source, then Jerga was destroyed.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Your latest post is also posting scans out of order to look like he recovered from source destruction, when really, only his body did that.
Click to expand...
I've done no such thing (if you were referring to me, if not, my apologies), besides, even if they were out of order, it wouldn't change much, since the first scan was meant to be the main argument, the second a counter argument to the "only his body was destroyed", and the other two suporting evidence. All scans are from the battle of Jerga vs Anos, but from different moments.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
The text even says Anos cant "grasp" his source, which seems to heavily imply Anos couldn't affect it at all, so him regenerating it is even more sus.
Click to expand...
Yes, I admit that the part of "I can't grasp his source this way" was a bit strange, specially since, just before that statement, Anos uses a magic that specifically targets the source, and Jerga was destroyed right after Anos used it on him, I believe it was wrongly translated, if yes, sorry about that. Well, Jerga's body is made of magic, and, as in the scan provided, if the source is destroyed, so is magic.
It may not change much, but here's other translation of Jerga being destroyed:

"Bevsed.

　The root killer's fingertips crushed his magical body.
　The light dissipated as if it were a mist, and Jelga's figure disappeared without a trace.

　However, the light from the sky gathered from all over Azation fell to the ground and created Jelga's magic law body there again.

''Hmm. As I thought, we can't get to the root of the problem.

I see you understand. I'm already under the spell of Jelga. It is the very order of the world that will never be destroyed.

Bebesd, the magic that Anos used on the scan, enables the user to directly interact with and destroy the target's source:

If you look closely, the white sphere is connected to Diego by a thin thread-like magic line.



"Do you understand? Your roots."



Draw a magic circle at the tip of your right hand.

<root killing bebzud> magic. As my right hand passes through the magic circle, my fingertips are dyed black.



"You can't touch the root. Even if you use great magic, it's difficult to interfere with the root itself. However, this <root killing bebzud> can touch the root directly."

Bebesd enables the user to interact with and destroy the target's source -> Anos used Bebesd on Jerga -> Jerga's source was destroyed, therefore his body also was -> Jerga came back because he was part of the world's order. At least that's how I interpret it.

Changing the topic, why is Bebesd listed as Conceptual Manipulation Type 2? The source isn't dependant on the body, mind or soul (take the reincarnation magic for example) and changing the body doesn't change the source, I think it should be a type 1 concept, or is it a weakness of the magic Bebesd?

I agree with @Tatsumi504's reasoning, however, can't spirits be interacted with normally, even without any specific ability, and isn't the main point of AE1 that they wouldn't be able to be interacted with?
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Anos cant "grasp" his source, which seems to heavily imply Anos couldn't affect it at all
Click to expand...
Anos, the guy who can affect everybodys source ,even gods, even a nonexistent source, couldn't affect jergas' source. Can't tell if you're joking or not.

Anos couldn't affect it, because it was destroyed...
 
Last edited:
YoPercy said:
Anos, the guy who can affect everybodys source ,even gods, even a nonexistent source, couldn't affect jergas' source. Damn well I am trying not to laugh.
Click to expand...
NEP type 3 for Jerga let's go. Base Misha, Lay and Sasha gets NPI for interacting with Jerga 🗣️
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Its not "embodiment" is a noun "embody" is a verb. Even AE definition on the site uses "embody". Just click the link i sent and see both used in examples
Click to expand...
They are same. Embody or embodiment. AE definition could use “embodiment” and will stay the same.
Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it.
Click to expand...
We can change the rewording and use embodiment, and it won't change the fact.
Type 2: Is an embodiment of an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it.
Click to expand...
 
ImmortalDread said:
They are same. Embody or embodiment. AE definition could use “embodiment” and will stay the same.

We can change the rewording and use embodiment, and it won't change the fact.
Click to expand...
Dread their body is made up information it is AE nonetheless. It's the same case as Gremmy. Spirits body is just imaginary product that's why they change shape in true form.
 
I did not argue against the feat. I am arguing how Tatsumi is misinterpreting the standards of AE. Don't mind me, but I also won't support a false claim.
I am being honest here.
 
Last edited:
ImmortalDread said:
I never argue against the feat. I am arguing how Tatsumi is misinterpreting the standards of AE. Don't mind me, but I also won't support a false claim.
I am being honest here.
Click to expand...
Oh my bad anyway I don't understand both of your povs. I just wanted to say they should get AE nonetheless. It's clear cut their existence is solely based on imagination and thoughts. Anime clearly shows Lays mom disappearing slowly. If it was AE2 it would have erased her in an instant.
 
y'all im at work i can't respond to every HGR argument (i also said id make my own thread) so just chill for now got damn 🗿

I also never said I'd downgrade EVERYONE'S regen, literally just the two things I mentioned :v
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
y'all im at work i can't respond to every HGR argument (i also said id make my own thread) so just chill for now got damn 🗿

I also never said I'd downgrade EVERYONE'S regen, literally just the two things I mentioned :v
Click to expand...
Just don't do it at all and leave it as it is.
 
ImmortalDread said:
They are same. Embody or embodiment. AE definition could use “embodiment” and will stay the same.

We can change the rewording and use embodiment, and it won't change the fact.
Click to expand...
It's literally not the same. One is "embodiment of" the other is "to embody".
The 1st is a noun while the 2nd is a verb. One describes the nature of something or what something is, the other indicates action.

If i say something is the embodiment of a concept it means that concept's manifestation.
If something is said to embody a concept, it's equivalent to a physical representation or to contain that concept.

Kratos from GoW for example embodies the concept of hope. If you swap "embodies" with "embodiment of" the description changes entirely as kratos would be hope itself if it were the latter.

Why am i even arguing this🤦🏾‍♂. Do you agree with spirits AE 1 or do you say it's AE 2?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Oh my bad anyway I don't understand both of your povs. I just wanted to say they should get AE nonetheless. It's clear cut their existence is solely based on imagination and thoughts. Anime clearly shows Lays mom disappearing slowly. If it was AE2 it would have erased her in an instant.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's so. She was disappearing because it's AE 1. AE 2 won't cease to exist because of this
 
@Tatsumi504 I won't argue over a simple definition of the term. It is blatant that both are same, and the difference are “noun” and “verb”. You can argue what you want, but grammatically you are wrong.

Also, no one even talked about the feat, I was correcting you.
 
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