Metal Gear Solid Speed Downgrade

[LordXcano]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:LordXcano/Revolver_Ocelot_Calc_Revision

This thing. It gives Ocelot supersonic speeds, which is consistent with other feats in the series.

So far here's how the argument goes.

Evidence For Lightning Having It's Real Speed

• It displays the properties of lightning

Evidence Against Lightning Having It's Real Speed

• Ocelot's bullet speed. We know the model of the gun, and we know it's IRL speed, comparing that to the speed of the lightning shown in the cutscene we can conclude that the lightning does not have it's IRL speed. While the lightning does show a significant amount of properties of real lightning, it never displays it's IRL speed.

• Volgin's speed is hypothesized to be psychic in nature by the same Soviet Scientists who have been studying him.

• There's no reason to doubt the IRL bullet speed, since said speeds tend to be portrayed correctly in fiction. Since there's no lightning speed feats, the bullet speed should trump that.

• It's highly inconsistent with the rest of the series. Bullet-timing is already near the limit of the character's abilities (when Snake dodges Ocelot's bullets they appear quick from Snake's view), so saying they can dodge something hundreds of times faster easily is an extreme stretch.

• An analogy (despite its ridiculousness) would be a leaf blowing in the wind doding a laser beam that displays every property of a laser except it's speed, this is no different. This is a bullet being comparable to lightning that has displayed every property except speed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Short Answer: No

Long Answer: Well, firstly you are going with the assumption that this is inconsistent with Snake's other feats, when it clearly isn't?

See here: http://makeagif.com/PTiRhx

Old Snake, way past his prime, dodging the bullets of a Rail Gun from about 30 Feet Away. That is EASILY a double digit Mach feat.

So a Snake in his prime dodging Volgin's Lightning? Entirely Consistent. Accept it.

The "It's said to be psychic" thing doesn't mean shit. Of course they would assume that, Volgin controls the lightning with his mind / will, it's natural to him.

You purposefully make an absurd example to serve your point, an example on an exaggerated circumstance that would never happen. This is hardly an argument.

You say that there is no evidence supporting the lightning speed? Not only there is (It being essentially real lightning in every single property, and you just assuming it's speed must be the exception because you can't accept Snake being that fast) but we could apply the same argument to the contrary? This is the type of non-logic that leads nowhere.

 

[LordXcano]

"Old Snake, way past his prime, dodging the bullets of a Rail Gun from about 30 Feet Away. That is EASILY a double digit Mach feat."

This is ignoring the fact that modern Rail Guns are Mach 7. So no, it isn't.

"So a Snake in his prime dodging Volgin's Lightning? Entirely Consistent. Accept it."

The calc for Ocelot's speed says lightning is 60 km/s. This is Mach 176. So only is it not consistent, it's not consistent by several orders of a magnitude.

"The "It's said to be psychic" thing doesn't mean shit. Of course they would assume that, Volgin controls the lightning with his mind / will, it's natural to him."

Using this reasoning the lightning should only travel as fast as he can think then.

"You purposefully make an absurd example to serve your point, an example on an exaggerated circumstance that would never happen. This is hardly an argument."

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

This is a legitimate tactic.

"You say that there is no evidence supporting the lightning speed? Not only there is (It being essentially real lightning in every single property, and you just assuming it's speed must be the exception because you can't accept Snake being that fast) but we could apply the same argument to the contrary? This is the type of non-logic that leads nowhere."

I have literally zero problem with Snake being supersonic. I just find issue with the reasoning behind it. The evidence was presented in OP, and the evidence against it was also in OP. You have addressed neither.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What makes the Rail Gun dodging feat so impressive is how quickly he moved away from it's bullets in the last possible second. Not the speed of the Rail Gun itself.

 

[LordXcano]

What makes the Rail Gun dodging feat so impressive is how quickly he moved away from it's bullets in the last possible second. Not the speed of the Rail Gun itself.

Wouldn't that be an anti-feat since it means he couldn't doge until the last minute?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Not at all. We see the Rail Gun's bullet heading towards Snake until it is a couple of feet away, and then Snake dodges it in the short period.

 

[LordXcano]

Not at all. We see the Rail Gun's bullet heading towards Snake until it is a couple of feet away, and then Snake dodges it in the short period.

Alright, cool, so Mach 10-20 Snake. That's still a big stretch to Mach 170.

 

[LordXcano]

To clarify, due to feats presented, this would just be a downgrade from Mach 200+ to Mach 10-20, still Hypersonic just less so.