Metal Gear: Feats re-examined and tiers re-evaluated / Big Boss and Solid Snake

[HierophantDeluxe]

Apologies for the poor collapse formatting, it's been a while since I've used wikia. There's a big disconnect within this verse when it comes to gameplay mechanics being used to determine many feats of characters that are not reflected in the various cutscenes and cinematics that are shown.

The truth is that most of the Snakes (and similar characters) are borderline superhuman (that's tier 9) on their complete own. Through equipment and augmentations of sorts their physicality is somewhat increased, and with their weaponries, gears and abilities they can manage to compete with foes much greater than themselves.

But for now, let's just examine and debate their current physicality of 8-B.


Big Boss:

- Durability: City Block level (Withstood an extended, torturous beatdown from Volgi).

Problems with this rating:

How would Volgin even know his body could generate 10 million volts? A little bit of research that I've found says we can only measure up to 200-300kVs, a far cry from the 10000kv that Volgin is claiming. This seems like an uneducated statement and he was either misinformed or was using it as intimidation, a bluff.

I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to the science of electricity and how we rate that in our current systems, but I was under the impression that it's not the voltage that necessarily kills but the amount of current/amps being transfered?

Assuming this feat is accurate it seems like plot induced stupidity anyway. Mainly because there are no other grand 8-B durability feats that are featured in cutscenes for him to scale to anyway.

For now, I'd suggest a baseline 9-B scaling from his genetic clone surviving this, though being KO'd in the process. Doesn't look like a direct hit though, so it's just my eyeball estimate of the amount of energy he absorbed via how far he was launched into a steel wall. Keep in mind Ray is 8-A.

Feats against this rating:

Boss and other the other Snakes are all vulnerable to basic weaponry and even handguns can cause life-threatening injuries if the bullet is well-placed.

For Boss specifically, he gets shot in the face with a revolver and loses an eye, causing him to scream from pain. He also gets stung by a bunch of wasps. I'm sure I missed more obvious ones but I don't remember MGS3 too well.


- Attack Potency: City Block level (Defeated Volgi, whose body carries a charge of 10 million volts, and pushed up Cocoon), higher with weapons.

Problems with this rating:

I've already refuted Volgin's supposed 8-B durability.

His lifting strength and durability based on this calc should be thrown out since it is entirely gameplay mechanics. There is no way Snake is knocked out via the shockwave of Ray stomping if Boss is able to deadlift the Cocoon. This is also never shown in any cutscene or cinematic.

I think that covers a good amount of scaling for Boss. I hope we can find better feats. I'll move on to Solid Snake now.

Solid Snake:

- Durability: City Block level (Comparable to Big Boss, who can survive lightning strikes from Volgi, can withstand the force of his own P-Bombs and stronger weapons, and survived walking through a microwave chamber capable of vaporizing people in his old age).

Problems with this rating:

Already refuted Big Boss and Volgin.

This calc based on his P-Bomb's seem weird. I assume it's talking about Snake surviving the actual bomb itself being used against him. Again I would argue this is gameplay mechanics and not indicitive of the strength we see in various cutscenes. If he really were this strong, he would have no need to flee from the detonation of Outer Heaven, and certainly shouldn't be harmed by lesser weaponry such as handguns and the sort.

Snake withstanding the microwave chamber is clearly plot-induced stupidity. I do not believe you can be "durable" against microwave radiation. His eyes and bare skin not being affected as the water molecules within them are excited to the point where they should evaporate seems silly. Sure he may be strong enough to be unaffected by the heat, but shouldn't he be dehydrated of moisture as well? Presumably to the point of death.

Feats against this rating:

Snake is casually knocked out from the shockwave of Ray striking through the floor. His wrists are also casually split open by a simple slash from Vamp (who by the way should be consistently 8-A, I don't recall him getting stronger from MGS2 to 4). He's also threatened by AR's from armed soldiers.

His physical superior, Gray Fox, is rendered splattered and completely immobile by full force blows from Rex . Liquid even taunts Solid, asking him if he's going to just watch Gray Fox die, even furthering the narrative that Solid Snake really can't compete physically with Rex, despite Gray Fox doing so for an extended period of time.

He's also almost splattered by Rex here .


- Attack Potency: City Block level (Comparable to Big Boss, and is strong enough to trade blows with people who can damage him), Multi-City Block level with weapons (Can injure Vamp and take down Metal Gears).

Problems with this rating:

We've already refuted Big Boss.

Snake is not Multi-City Block level with every single weapon, maybe only some of the heavy weaponry such as his stinger and other explosives. This needs to be clarified.

Feats against this rating:

Similar weaponry can't even be used to harm Ray. The only weapon capable of damaging them is the Stinger missile, and through different cutscenes we're shown that it's only against selective weakpoints .

For now, I think that focusing on these two characters and finding better feats for them is the best course of action, because they serve as scaling for most of the super-soldier yet non-superpowered characters (which is a lot.)

Although I suggested 9-B as a good alternative, I'm unaware of any other feats that may place them higher or lower. Right now I'm just facilitating discussion.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Bump. Acknowledge me.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Bump.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Bump.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Bump

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Downgrade bump.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Bump.

 

[Legion350]

I would suggest you try and contact some of the Metal Gear supporters.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The 10 Megavolt is a legit lore statement, and those studies have nothing to do with what fictional characters are capable of. And it's also similar to what characters like Darth Sidious does. And while the durability required to resist lightning bolts have been questioned, Volgin's does specifically have great precision. Besides, surviving 30,000 degree Celsius temperatures for prolonged periods is still rather decent. Also, getting injured by ordinary bullets is a very common PIS in fiction; otherwise the likes of Wonder Woman would have been downgraded a long time ago.

Snake deadlifting Cocoons is a feat they perform regularly, and they do it legitly based on the animation. It doesn't look like a weird glitch or anything like that. Also, Snake traded blows with both Gray Fox and Raiden in both MGS1 and 2 respectively. While not quite as strong as either one of them, Raiden has his own 8-B feat in MGS4. Metal Gear Rex's also legit have shown comparable if not superior strength ot Radien during that time; and a Cocoon was implied to be larger and heavier than that. I don't see how taking hit from a 8-A mech is only Wall level, and even though he got knocked out, he still survived it.

If that's not enough, that lifting strength feat also doubles as a 8-C feat, and ignoring the timeframe alone; the Volgin feat was a regular short lived lightning bolt, it would still be 8-C. But as mentioned above, it was a continuous lightning bolt that appears more impressive. Snake also survived crawling through a giant microwave that was stated to be able to vaporize people in an instant. That's a casual 9-A feat are bare minimum.

I think the 8-B ratings are still legit, but 9-B is definitely way too low of a proposal. Also, the technology argument is very primitive; fiction often has more advanced technologies even if it takes place in an era that's older than ours. In Metal Gear, even Cold War technology is far more advanced then our modern day technology.

 

[Jackythejack]

I'm just gonna say straight up say that "our current technology doesn't allow us to measure that high" or something doesn't really work for Metal Gear, which is by all means not grounded in reality considering the literal vampires, and nanomachines, and walking nukes and all the other crazy shit.

Metal Gear doesn't follow our logic.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

What in the world lol

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

I'm very excited that someone finally decided to take a look lol.

@DDM

1. When you talk about Volgin's 10 megavolt lore statement are you referring to WOG? I'm aware Volgin himself said it, but I have a lot of doubts about its validity, particularly when it comes to how you actually begin to measure it. I think you have a good point with the theme of MG being that they have tech ahead of their time, but I still think it's more believable that Volgin was misinformed/incorrect and was not using 10 megavolts against a man who succumbs to ordinary bullets, hornets, etc (particularly because 50+ years later, WE can't do it). I see there can be an argument made for each side; Volgin can be misinformed or Snake is extremely superhuman and him getting harmed by lesser threats is PIS.

2. My point about BB deadlifting Cocoons is that it's entirely a gameplay mechanic/feat and there's a disconnect between what we do in the game and the cutscenes we see.

Just think about Snake and Ocelot's many gunfights - in the game you fill each other with round and round and blood splatter is everywhere but after the fight concludes and you're taken to the cutscene neither of them have any visible injuries. That tells me that the proper canon is they didn't fill each other with lead, painted the floor with their blood and simply walk away, but rather exchanged gunfire, maybe get tagged in a non-vital area, and then walked away. Essentially I'm saying cutscenes and cinematics are the true canon in these games, and the gameplay is exaggerated for the sake of being fun and entertaining.

Snake and Ocelot is just an example off the top of my head but literally every boss fight features this to some degree.

With that same logic, I'm applying it to BB and his deadlifting feat. Like I said in my OP, in normal cutscenes we can see Metal Gear Rex just bodyslam and ragdoll SS and Gray Fox many times; it doesn't make sense that they can't handle that amount of weight and force in cutscenes but in gameplay they can deadlift and tackle Metal Gear just fine.

3. I'm personally iffy with the microwave feat, particularly because I'm aware that radiation does not equate to durability and frankly doesn't explain that even if Snake were durable enough to resist the energy of the microwave radiation, how does the water molecules in him not evaporate?

Regardless it was a planned and definitely canon cutscene so I am not totally opposed, just not convinced.

4. I think the 8-B ratings are questionable at best, especially since many come from gameplay scaling and not cutscenes and cinematics. I think that 9-B was a good baseline, but I don't think it is definitive in anyway.

@Jackythejack

Good point, I get that their technology is ahead of their time but I was merely pointing out that in 2019 we cannot measure voltage that high with any accuracy, yet Volgin and his iffy 1960's technology could? I never got the impression that MGS3 was THAT advanced in many aspects (though later games like MGS4 definitely have tech beyond our own but again, it takes place in 2014 and not 1963) so it's just my educated opinion.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean. We clearly have calcs and such for the feat. The argument of "well it isn't right for the timeframe" doesn't work on a wiki literally dedicated to fiction. As in, that which is not based on reality, didn't happen, and so on.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Yes, I agree that our calc that determines how much damage his electricity would do if it were using 10 megavolts.

I don't think that he possesses the ability to use 10 megavolts based off our real world logic and reasoning - something that the Metal Gear series strives so often to recreate in many aspects.

So I get that Volgin THINKS he has 10 megavolts, but our physics that his world takes much inspiration from disagrees, and very few if any aspects of MGS3's technology is displayed as better than our own. I think the most advanced thing they have in the game are nuclear warheads without recoil, Shagohod and pocket sonar.

EDIT: If he were mistaken, it solves and explains how Snake is still vulnerable to a variety of lesser attacks (bullets, punches, falls, insects, blades, etc etc) which I think is also good reasoning.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

This... isn't an argument. The game states it is using 10 megavolts. Ergo it is using 10 megavolts. "The game strives to be realistic" A. doesn't mean that it actually is, and B. flat out isn't true when you see giant mechs running around. Dunno what you want me to tell you lol.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

No, the game doesn't state it. An egotistical character in the game says it as a form of intimidation and psychological manipulation. Just because he said it doesn't mean the statement is a truth. Is this a new thing for you?

Have you played the metal gear games? Just a question.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No, the game doesn't state it. An egotistical character in the game says it as a form of intimidation and psychological manipulation. Just because he said it doesn't mean the statement is a truth.

Alright, you made a positive claim, prove he did it as psychological manipulation.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Alright, you made a positive claim, prove he did it as psychological manipulation.

I mean... that IS what torture is and involves. (If you don't know the details of what happened, the relevant info is in the calc which is in the OP)

Him telling Snake about the strength of electricity before he begins torturing him with it is a means of creating anticipation and is nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to torture tactics. Bluffing or lying about the strength of it and providing him with a random amount like, I dunno, 10 megavolts, sounds like a lot to someone who is vaguely educated on the matter.

Anticipation creates more fear and builds that mind-body connection which results in more pain. Thus it is advantageous for Volgin to say an absurdly high amount to someone he's about to torture, regardless of whether or not it holds true.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Saying Volgin was misinformed is pure headcanon; he is a scientific genius who's like smarter than Albert Einstein. He should be comparable to Solid Snake's IQ of 180. Also, considered railguns with a 100 km/s muzzle velocity exists in the Metal Gear Universe, that alone shows how over the top the series is compared to the real world. Same with Cyborg Ninjas who can cut through atoms and molecules just by swinging their swords; that's blatantly beyond superhuman.

Also, we have numerous calculations that simply cannot be ignored. They were checked by calculation group members and the feats done are regular. Also, high end feats usually have more priority than low end feats as long as their concrete; which the high end feats here are. Meaning they do legit use their own physical prowess to perform the 8-B feats, Class M and High Hypersonic feats.

Even characters much stronger than Snake have been severely injured and even killed by a single well paced lead bullet; it's a very common PIS in fiction. It's true that authors don't care about power scaling or Vs debating, or comparing how powerful their characters are to other fictional verses. But we go by legitimately shown feats and the "Non-feats" such as easy bullet wounds are what should be scrapped.

The Microwave feat is still a feat. 9-A may not be all that impressive, but actually; radiation could somewhat scale to durability. But the target would need an appropriate size in the general consensus. However, a character Snake's size crawling through it would still be a 9-A durability feat. If he was a giant, it could be higher than that. And if he was an insect, it would be much lower than that. But, it's still a back up feat.

Also, getting slammed isn't an argument against lifting feats; people have lifted cars with ease but also get run over by speeding cars in other scenes. Speeding cars actually generating a lot more force than ones not currently moving. Survival of getting slammed by those mechs can still serve as back up durability feats. Already addressed that bullets are PIS, but punches are technically stronger than they look given the distinction between Attack Potency and Destructive Capacity. And blade strengths come more from the wielders than they do the swords themselves. Some of those same sword wielders are still Tier 8.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

1.

Volgin? A scientific genius? Based on what? Politically gifted and knowledgeable about weapons design and physics absolutely, but scientific genius? That's a huge stretch. What has he done that makes him a scientific genius?

And let's not quickly forget that IQ =/= expertise or knowledge in any way. Most knowledgeable people including Einstein himself have agreed that IQ is a poor way of measuring how smart someone is. That aside, even if we were to agree that Volgin has 200IQ it would be meaningless and has no merit on how knowledgeable he is on the amount of electricity he can produce. As I have said before, the technology in MGS3 in particular is displayed as very poor in comparison to what we have now in most aspects, so whatever measurement tools he uses also is not unfaliable.

Him being misinformed is only one reason as to why he'd say such a thing and could feasibly be incorrect. If you consider that he said it as a form of psychological manipulation to aid in torturing Snake then that would be another perfectly logical explanation that doesn't have to accept an absurd 10 megavolt statement coming from one of the most egotistical character.

I agree their are blatant superhuman things about their universe for the record, and it becomes far more common the further you go down their timeline. For the most part I would say MGS3 is very tame on account of having realistic and feasible technologies for their time, and not too many impossible supernatural abilities, Volgin's psychic abilities being the exception.

2.

What? The calculations are fine. They just have no bearing on the actual canonity within the games for the most part. Re-read my other post on the whole divide between gameplay and cutscenes.

I am aware that bullets injuring high tier characters is very common PIS, I just think that most of the characters within Metal Gear are much lower in tier as a result of consistently being potrayed as vulnerable to pretty much everything, be it bullets, metal gears, swords, etc etc. The only feats that say otherwise are inaccurate to the canon and based off gameplay.

3.

Yeah I'm not too problematic on the microwave feat, I think 9-A is an okay result and makes more sense than 8-B. You also have a good point about getting slammed not being the same as lifting, but there are moments where characters are still at risk of being crushed by weights which they supposedly have the ability to deadlift with ease.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Of course that is what it involves. But you claim it must be that. So bring proof, I guess, to back your claim. If you're just giving your opinion, don't make a downgrade CRT.

Radiation scales to durability, ye. It's just a form of energy emission.

So yeah, I consider this downgrade illegitimate without any ounce of evidence.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Gameplay is only ignored when directly contradicted by lore which... in this case it isn't, I believe. Just for the record.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Gameplay is only ignored when directly contradicted by lore which... in this case it isn't, I believe. Just for the record.

It's contradicted many times, as I said in my first post. I will give you an example rather than argue.

Here we have Naked Snake vs Ocelot. Both are armed with handguns.

Oh look at that, Snake puts a round into his head and you can visibly see blood spurt out. Ocelot keeps on keeping on. Cool, I guess these are really durable and strong fighters or something. This pattern of them shooting each other and blood spurting out continues to the end of the bossfight where we see...

That there's no blood, neither of them are visibly injured or even that exhausted? Despite me literally emptying my AK into him and seeing his blood fly into the air? His clothes are unaffected? It looks like they haven't even shot each other yet!

This is what we a call a contradiction. There is a distinct difference between what you do during gameplay and what happens as a result in the cutscenes and lore.

As you can imagine, this happens for every single boss fight in Metal Gear (except maybe in Phantom Pain) that I can think of. The gameplay does not correlate with what happens in actuality, so calcing the gameplay is pointless.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah. That would be game mechanics. That doesn't prove the case for the actual feats though, just that the game does, in fact, have game mechanics. Somewhat bog standard, one might say, for a video game.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

By scientific genius, he's very well crafted in the art of electrical science. And he's also well aware of how atoms and molecules work. He'd know how many volts are in a lightning bolt quite well. It also shows numerous properties of real lighting and has consistently been shown to control electricity from other natural sources. The gameplay is technically still canon, it just tells things differently than the story.

Snake trading blows with Gray Fox who interns was able to somewhat repel blows from Rex in the cutscenes is also pretty legit. Same with Snake trading blows with Raiden who has also very consistently shrugged off metal gears. Also, those hornets aren't even normal hornets; they're super hornets controlled by the Pain.

Those don't look like contradictions rather than just more an more PIS. Yes, it's weird if the gameplay has more impressive feats than the cinematics and most verses are usually the other way around, but Metal Gear isn't the only franchise that has that.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

1.

I don't think the games have anything to say on him being crafted in the art of "electrical science".

The explanation for his abilities is based on psychic manipulation moreso than anything biological or biomechanical. I think you need more proof that he would know how many volts are in a lighting bolt and how he's somehow able to tell the amount flowing through him. Even if he were a scientist, that doesn't let him measure his own body by virtue of being him.

2.

Snake trading blows with Gray Fox is a pretty decent feat, but let's be aware that he only really compares 1-1 in skill, not strength or speed, as evident when as soon as he succumbs to their little fist fight, he does this shitand Snake just stands their like a fish out of water. That, other scenes, and Gray Fox sacraficing himself for Snake tells me that he was definitely holding back during their fight.

3.

Call it what you want, they are quite literally contradictions. Cutscenes take precedent over gameplay feats, and when drastic contradictions like this are shown, siding with a cinematic that the developer intended to be used for lore purposes is used as our standards rather than game mechanics that are meant mostly for player enjoyment. If MGS gameplay correlated with the cutscenes, a lot of it would be BS and unfun.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Volgin's Lightning is still considered canon, and nothing suggests it's a hyperbole. If he said something like "Unlimited power" it would be a hyperbole, but he said a specific scientific statement, that's not contradicted by anything. So it's what we go by.

He traded blows with Gray Fox, and Gray Fox was the stronger of the two, but Snake was still considered pretty strong and fast even for his standards. While not quite equals, Snake is at least not too far below his tier. Snake also trades blows with Raiden in MGS2 and has fought against Metal Gears in MGS4.

Final Fantasy 7 also has gameplay stuff being calculated at 4-B and Massively FTL+ very consistently, and yet the cutscenes also showcase very little of that. Even existing scenes of characters considering railguns threat. And the gameplay animations are also consistent with the lore. If the gameplay is actually where the legitimate feats come from, then we actually can use gameplay.

 

[SinsofMan]

Wow, a post that has me coming back to VS Wiki. Color me surprised


No, the scaling for 8-B is consistent. There is Volgins feat, which your argument for being against basically boils down 'I simply dont believe it' Then there is Raiden's feat. Also, tanking attacks from the Harrier in game should be tier 8 so idk where you got 9-B from.

I am neutral on changing MGS tiers, but tbh, nothing in this post convinced me.

/proceeds to ghost again

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

@DDM

1. Right, but just because he said it doesn't make it true. I've literally listed a couple very good reasons and explanations for 10 megavolts not to be true. Volgin saying it and therefore it must be true is bad logic.

2. I know he traded blows with Gray Fox, but it was implied that Gray Fox was holding back many degrees. Many times we clearly see him moving faster than Snake can react, and we also know he's much stronger because he can hold back strikes from Metal Gear Rex that clearly implicated Snake was going to die, had he not been saved by Gray Fox. Snake gets bodied by an indirect blow from Metal Gear Ray in MGS2, there's no way he's on par with Gray Fox's max strength and speed.

3. You cannot use gameplay when it is contradicted by cutscenes, because what happens in the gameplay becomes game mechanics. Final Fantasy 7 does not have very much gameplay that contradicts what happens in cutscenes, I don't recall it having any at all. Metal Gear is chalked full of it. Can't make it any simpler for you.

@SinsofMan

My argument is not "I don't believe it", that's my conclusion based off the many factors I listed above.

Snake or Raiden tanked a direct attack from the Harrier? Maybe in gameplay, but the cutscene after the fight shows both of them got out relatively unharmed and the only one with very visible injuries is Solidus.

That means Raiden tanking missiles and machine gun fire from the harrier is gameplay mechanics. It is not indicitive of what actually happens in the lore.

Please continue to ghost.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Being undamaged in the cutscene doesn't really negate the fact that by the game's standards you can be hit by the thing, and survive. Who cares what they look like in the cutscene (which so far appears to be the crux of your argument for contradictions)?

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Except it does. If you get shot during the boss fight, and the cutscene rolls around with you being entirely unharmed, that means that as far as lore is concerned, you took no damage.

It doesn't happen often in many games because most developers tend to show that your character is damaged/exhausted during the cutscene regardless if you took any damage.

The fact remains that many cutscenes show Snake as unharmed once the fight is over. This means that the gameplay leading up to that scene is not indicitive of what actually happens in the canon lore.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No, it doesn't. Because that's also game mechanics that you aren't harmed. Most games don't actively mimic your model, especially in cutscenes. So even if I get slashed to bits, my in-game model won't in fact have cut wounds, and cut-scenes tend to be pre-rendered. So that isn't an argument because you're arguing the wrong side of game mechanics.

Furthermore, stop trying to be rude to ward people off. "Waste of my time" ain't exactly the friendliest message. Just saying homie, there is a reason you're on a new account, yes?

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

No, but most games that keep consistency between gameplay and cutscenes tend to show your character as damaged/exhausted regardless of the amount of damage you took. So yes, it does.

The fact still remains that characters can perform feats and tank absurd attacks in gameplay that they are quite clearly unable to perform or handle in cutscenes. Cutscenes take precedent over gameplay.

I already edited it out of my post within five minutes because I realized the tone, you egg.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Right, so again, the cutscenes don't mimic what you do in gameplay because that's just how the tech works. That isn't indicative of the gameplay not scaling.

By unable you mean they get hamed by each other's guns, see earlier posts about PIS.

Good. Don't let it continue.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Yes and no, but I've explained it you twice now and you keep repeating your point like you're handicapped.

The gameplay doesn't scale because aspects of it (you being able to do harm certain characters bare handed, being able to tank continuous gunfire, etc) are contradicted in cutscenes - as if some things you did in gameplay never actually happened. That's as simple as I can explain it for you.

The two cannot co-exist, that is why it is a contradiction.

It's not about being harmed by guns per say as that's consistent across gameplay and cutscenes, but also about the amount of gunfire the characters can tank and absorb. It takes one well placed bullet to end someone in cutscenes, but several hundred rounds in gameplay.

I won't, you goat.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Good. More insults, solid. No, I'm trying to explain to you why you're wrong, you saying the same thing over and over screams truth through repetition.

But that isn't actually a contradiction, not in of itself. You can harm people bare-handed. Waow.

Considering the handicapped thing strike two. Considering the edit on the comment I suspect there's something else that was typed, like before with the whole "waste of time" comment.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

More repeating yourself. As suspected.

Harming giant mechs in gameplay barehanded, check. In the cutscenes? Said giant mech is impervious to your rockets and gunfire for the most part.

Blatant contradiction. The standard is to follow cutscenes. You even agreed earlier in this thread but objected on the premise that there were no contradictions, which I have now repeatedly disproven. You are arguing for the sake of it lol.

You need a knowledgeable staff member to clarify things to you, especially since you don't know the verse in question and have already raised objectively wrong statements as fact.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Hos about we don't rely on insults to try and make an argument? Try to keep a micron of manners or just don't waste your time. You aren't making any argument look convincing acting this aggressive.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Can you say any different? A wise man once said if you keep showing the symptoms, keep taking your medicine. If you still don't understand me, keep trying to hear me.

As I said a while ago, your points don't seem to have changed so I reject this CRT as of right now. Most of this is baseless conjecture and a failure to understand how games function.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

My argument isn't that Bambu is an idiot or anything, in fact far from it. It's just me throwing my observation out there. My actual arguments are lengthier and much more in-depth. I don't rely on someone's stupidity to prove my point.

Im still waiting on an actual counter argument, my points havent changed because I have the proofs in my favor. Meanwhile your argument amounts to "that's not how video game work".

Leave the discussion to DDM, he's made good points while you've sat there spewing off arguments with no proof or reasoning to them.