Medaka Downgrade

[AppleLord]

She is at Possibly Moon level (Stated that she had to destroy the moon that was falling) Not a feat, just a statement. | Possibly Universe level+ (Stated to have created a universe) Another statement which is possible hyperbole or an outlier. There is not even a Planet level feat from her and she jumped to Universal level.

Better reasoning or downgrade.

 

[PaChi2]

She did destroy the moon.


http://m.*********.co/manga/medaka_box/v14/c185/19.html

He went "all the way to the moon to save medaka" so, Medaka did go to the moon.

http://m.*********.co/manga/medaka_box/v14/c184/20.html

The moon disappeared from the sky.

http://m.*********.co/manga/medaka_box/v14/c185/17.html

Why dont you believe her?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Creating a universe = Low 2-C, plus its only rated as Possibly, meaning she has the potential to

 

[AppleLord]

She did destroy the moon.


http://m.*********.co/manga/medaka_box/v14/c185/19.html

He went "all the way to the moon to save medaka" so, Medaka did go to the moon.

http://m.*********.co/manga/medaka_box/v14/c184/20.html

The moon disappeared from the sky.

http://m.*********.co/manga/medaka_box/v14/c185/17.html

Why dont you believe her?

Alright. This should be fix: Possibly Moon level (Stated that she had to destroy the moon that was falling) to Possibly Moon level (Destroy the Moon) or something like that as its it looks like a statement.

 

[AppleLord]

Creating a universe = Low 2-C, plus its only rated as Possibly, meaning she has the potential to

Any evidence to back it up, except statements like the moon feat? Because jumping from Moon level to Universal is something that not even Goku can do.

 

[PaChi2]

Medaka box works with hax, normally independent of physical power (pretty much like JoJo). So her jumping to an enormous degree thanks to a broken ability isnt that impressive (in her verse, that is). And its a "Possibly" so, it means that its not an outlier or inconsistent with the rest, she has the potential to do it with an ability.

 

[AppleLord]

That doesn't prove anything. Show me proof like you did with the moon. The moon statement needs fixing as we saw the moon isn't there.

 

[PaChi2]

Problem is I dont recall that statement tbh, I thought she was Universe+ for All fiction.

 

[AppleLord]

That's just a name of an ability. If we go with the statement it will make her Omniversal level and a copyright problem would had emerge by now. She isn't universal level either.

 

[PaChi2]

All fiction has wiped the concept of color and is stated that kumagawa could erase "the world" if he lost control of the ability. Nobody brought up Omniverse level so, please, dont exagerate things in order to make arguments.

 

[AppleLord]

The concept of color isn't universal otherwise Ichibei would had been universal along time ago. The world could mean planet, her downgrade will be to planet level. No exaggerations, just an example of the meaning of all fiction. It doesn't look like that.

 

[FateAlbane]

I have no problems with the moon and planet stuff, but I do believe the Universal statement sounds like a bit of hyperbole/outlierish considering we haven't seen anything of a similar destructive level in the whole series...

 

[FateAlbane]

I mean, if she could destroy/create a Universe, what was the problem with dealing with the moon then creating a new one? She literally talks with Zenkichi later on about some big scientifical project or something to try and make a new moon. If she could create a Universe she would just have blinked a new moon into existence in the first opportunity.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Even then, that would likely be 3-A and not Low 2-C unless we have proof it is Low 2-C

 

[FateAlbane]

Where was it stated that she created an universe, again? I only remember Medaka saying that she fought an evil overlord of another universe.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

She literally talks with Zenkichi later on about some big scientifical project or something to try and make a new moon. If she could create a Universe she would just have blinked a new moon into existence in the first opportunity.

She had lost all of her previous powers when that happened, IIRC. And she went missing for a while after destroying the moon. We don't know why did she go missing, and we don't know how she destroyed the moon in the first place. Maybe she didn't have an opportunity to blink a new moon into existance. We don't know a LOT of stuff about the situation, which is why she's rated as possibly Moon level and possibly Universe level+.

As for why she's Low 2-C, Ajimu has a "Create Universe" skill and i'm pretty sure Medaka was there when she used it.

 

[BreloomFanboy]

I have no problems with the moon and planet stuff, but I do believe the Universal statement sounds like a bit of hyperbole/outlierish considering we haven't seen anything of a similar destructive level in the whole series...

Ajimu Najimi can "transcend higher-dimensional space" and "control infinity". So Low 2-C Medaka shouldn't be to outlierish.

 

[FateAlbane]

>> Never showed any of that.

So we should take every character that says they have infinite or Universal power without displaying it at face value? If we take Ajimu's skills literally, she should be Tier 0 via having an "Omnipotent" skill.

 

[FateAlbane]

She had lost all of her previous powers when that happened, IIRC. And she went missing for a while after destroying the moon.

Shiranui Hanten literally had to save her from the moon busting, lest she would be dead. And she still had her power for years after the moon was busted, why didn't she bring it back again during that time frame? ...Universal, yeah. Not buying it.

EDIT: Also, Medaka can only get glimpses of a few skills that Ajimu uses at a time, Medaka herself stated that. She can't see all of them at once so there's nothing suggesting that she got any skill for creating a Universe.

 

[BreloomFanboy]

>> Never showed any of that.

So we should take every character that says they have infinite or Universal power without displaying it at face value?

I mean... Possibly and Unknow can suffice.

 

[AppleLord]

The Moon feat can be possiby and add the links, but the Universal level should be change to Unknown for reasons above.

 

[FateAlbane]

Moon Level is reasonable (doesn't even need the possibly, to be honest), but for her higher tier I agree that it should be Unknown.

 

[PaChi2]

I thought the possibly was meant to be the cap for her powers, like in, she can reach Universal+ if she did copy the abilities (which we dont know, also, Medaka box likes PIS as it runs in meta fiction, prime example Ajimu).

 

[PaChi2]

The concept of color isn't universal otherwise Ichibei would had been universal along time ago. The world could mean planet, her downgrade will be to planet level. No exaggerations, just an example of the meaning of all fiction. It doesn't look like that.

However, All fiction can: erase people from existence, erase people's powers, erase wounds, erase the flow of time (making his attacks instantaneous), erase Kukagawa's death, thus reviving him. And, erase the concept of color. I believe this is a different case to ichibei's, since his ability is to manipulate color (which isnt universal), he doesnt destroy concepts, the same way erasing "time" from an universe isnt the same as time manipulation. That is why, after all of this, him affecting other concepts isnt really farfetched (he did it casually, btw). Of course, he is rated as Unknown because we dont know if he meant "Universe" or "Planet" when he stated All fiction could erase the world.

Edit: if you wish, I can post scans with every feat except for the erasing color one which was in a Kumagawa special.

 

[AppleLord]

That is plain NLF, Medaka is not capable of copying anyones abilities, specially with a tier like that.

 

[FateAlbane]

All Fiction is Causality based, and of an offensive kind. It erases both the Cause and the Effect of something making it non-existant. There wasn't a single feat for Universal All Fiction either and Kumagawa only erases the time needed for his attacks to make it instant.

Less than Universal space-time stuff is considered hax, not AP.


Proof that All Fiction is Causality Based.

 

[PaChi2]

I know it is NLF, almost everything in Medaka Box is NLF. And yes, Medaka can instantly copy abilities, its her ability: The End. Im not deffending thr Universal+ rating, Unknown is perfectly fine.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

That is plain NLF, Medaka is not capable of copying anyones abilities, specially with a tier like that.

What does her tier have to do with her copying powers?

 

[FateAlbane]

And again, there isn't a SINGLE piece of evidence in the manga suggesting Universal Medaka. That whole "stated she could create an universe" was probably because the person who made her profile misunderstood her quote about fighting the king of another universe.

 

[PaChi2]

There is a quote medaka telling Zenkichi to "come to her world" however you can interpret that, well, its up to you.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

KamiYasha should probably take a look at this

 

[FateAlbane]

@Pachi2 ...You do realize Medaka was saying something like "I can't imagine my world without you" as in, her life without him, right? Not that "Woot, I created a Universe and I want you to be in it!", let's go.

When Zenkichi says no she even goes on to say that she got rejected twice by the same person (referring to when she confessed to him in their childhood) and how she is going to cry because of it.

 

[FateAlbane]

Anyways, I think most people are agreeing with Unknown rather than Universal by now.

 

[PaChi2]

@Fate I dont remember the exact scenario, only the quote, I wasnt using it as proof of universal medaka, just a comment. Maybe there was a misunderstanding, dunno.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

highlighted this thread for more community input. At the moment I can't decide who I should agree with.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Ajimu and Medaka both have literal create universe skills


>> Never showed any of that.

So we should take every character that says they have infinite or Universal power without displaying it at face value? If we take Ajimu's skills literally, she should be Tier 0 via having an "Omnipotent" skill.

Medaka and Ajimu both showed their skills in combat, just because its in written form doesn't make this any less true.

And omnipotent is a very vague term outside of vs wiki, some people would call someone who could just no-sell nukes omnipotent, and for most outside of the vs community creating and destroying universes alone is enough to qualify. The term universe is not, there's really only one thing create new universe or create a universe could mean.

Shiranui Hanten literally had to save her from the moon busting, lest she would be dead. And she still had her power for years after the moon was busted, why didn't she bring it back again during that time frame? ...Universal, yeah. Not buying it.

That's CIS, Medaka hates using her skills because she likes thinking of herself as a regular person, and some of them supposedly affect her personality. Unless she feels she has to to protect someone, she won't use them.

Also, universal isn't an outlier, the series has characters like Ajimu who existed before the universe/time and before/through the Big Bang and who has a create universe skill, high 3A and two low 2C feats respectively; Kumagawa who can erase color on a universal scale and can temporarily seal all of Ajimu's skills; and Iihiko who is supposedly a higher dimensional being.

 

[PaChi2]

oh! The "create an universe" ability, didnt remember she had that.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Blahblah "Medaka and Ajimu both showed their skills in combat, just because its in written form doesn't make this any less true."

Not the universal one, sorry.

So let's upgrade Vegeta's Big Bang attack to Universal too despite it just making things explode. While we're at it, I'll find a ton of characters that said they have Universal power but never showed anything remotely close to it.

I'll make a ton of threads to upgrade them to Universal based on the sole evidence that they have a power they say that it can create or destroy a Universe because apparently that's all the evidence Medaka needs despite all other things pointing otherwise.

There's nothing suggesting Kumagawa erased color on a Universal scale otherwise the series, world of Medaka Box would have no color at all (that erasing color feat was before even the main series, it doesn't make any sense that the whole Universe lost its colors otherwise Medaka Box would be a bunch of pages entirely in black or white).

Iihiko has nothing confirming him as higher dimensional aside from Medaka making a comparison to explain his powers. She just says "His powers are of another dimension" and that's it.

 

[FateAlbane]

And don't give me the whole "Omnipotent changes with the setting" when you're arguing that we should take the name and description of Akimu's skills literally despite evidence suggesting otherwise. Taking Omnipotent literally would make her Tier 0.

 

[AppleLord]

Yes, we will have to upgrade a lot of verses to Universal level if we allow this one statement to go through.