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Once again, contact KamiYasha and get his opinion before making any changes
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Medaka Downgrade
- Thread starter AppleLord
- Start date
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- medaka kurokami
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Also the only skills Medaka is confirmed to have copied from Ajimu are some Trample Skills. I don't even know why people are still bringing Ajimu here.
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@Fate literally just showed you the picture of it -_-
Big Bang attack is a name, not a literal create a new universe skill.
Really? Threads where a character is flat out stated to create a universe and it isn't an outlier?
When he erased blue, they showed the planet and space, both devoid of the color. And this canonically is all a manga, so there is no color in the first place.
Big Bang attack is a name, not a literal create a new universe skill.
Really? Threads where a character is flat out stated to create a universe and it isn't an outlier?
When he erased blue, they showed the planet and space, both devoid of the color. And this canonically is all a manga, so there is no color in the first place.
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@Fate You cannot erase a concept via causality manipulation as Kumagawa does without it being Universal scale (because the same cause, the concept, has its effect in the whole universe) and as you well posted, Kumagawa erases both. The same way that when you... for example rewind time (pretty common in ficion), its in an universal scale also.
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Supporting the nerfs here. There's already the issue that Medaka may not even have all abilitie since it was just one statement after all. Or so I hear.
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@BlahBlah I saw all the skills. So what? I didn't see any Universe being created there.
"Big Bang attack is a name"
...That's literally all the so called create Universe skill has going for it. A name and someone saying it's a skill that creates a Universe despite nothing else in the series showing that level of power and the skill itself not showing any Universe being created.
...Are you really arguing based on "It's a manga"? You know that with a single color there wouldn't be any differences either, right? No one would see jack, and we wouldn't either. It would all be blank or all black. Seriously. One color. Also, color pages since you are arguing on this... Uh, point.
"Really? Threads where a character is flat out stated to create a universe and it isn't an outlier?"
...It was never stated that Medaka created an Universe. The description says "Create an Universe skill" but we don't see anything remotely close to that and it IS outlier on top of that because it would be WAY superior to whatever Medaka ever did (*cough*Even Moon Busting is difficult for her*cough*).
"Big Bang attack is a name"
...That's literally all the so called create Universe skill has going for it. A name and someone saying it's a skill that creates a Universe despite nothing else in the series showing that level of power and the skill itself not showing any Universe being created.
...Are you really arguing based on "It's a manga"? You know that with a single color there wouldn't be any differences either, right? No one would see jack, and we wouldn't either. It would all be blank or all black. Seriously. One color. Also, color pages since you are arguing on this... Uh, point.
"Really? Threads where a character is flat out stated to create a universe and it isn't an outlier?"
...It was never stated that Medaka created an Universe. The description says "Create an Universe skill" but we don't see anything remotely close to that and it IS outlier on top of that because it would be WAY superior to whatever Medaka ever did (*cough*Even Moon Busting is difficult for her*cough*).
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Yes you can. Or.... So you will ignore the In-Verse explanation to make speculation valid instead?PaChi2 said:
Fascinating.
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They were displayed in a feat in written form, not a statement.CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
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>> Displayed in a feat.
>> Someone stepping on a person and saying that was creating a Universe with no visible effects.
"Sure thing. Definitely Universal Power. Further supported because the fodder in question was also alive after being hit with said Universal Powers."
>> Someone stepping on a person and saying that was creating a Universe with no visible effects.
"Sure thing. Definitely Universal Power. Further supported because the fodder in question was also alive after being hit with said Universal Powers."
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Long time no see a thread like this that gives me headaches.
Lets start...
Actually no. I'm not going to explain anything.
This was already discussed several times (even more with the comments that aren't available anymore)
Examples: HERE and HERE (Mainly about the Universe Creation) you have two threads about this SAME "issue". Even Antvasima has already discussed this topic more than i.
Making a summary: It was accepted, not only by me but also by two of four current Bureaucrats and by other admins.
Therefore, i highly doubt if this thread is even gonna make a difference from the previous threads.
Lets start...
Actually no. I'm not going to explain anything.
This was already discussed several times (even more with the comments that aren't available anymore)
Examples: HERE and HERE (Mainly about the Universe Creation) you have two threads about this SAME "issue". Even Antvasima has already discussed this topic more than i.
Making a summary: It was accepted, not only by me but also by two of four current Bureaucrats and by other admins.
Therefore, i highly doubt if this thread is even gonna make a difference from the previous threads.
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<Yes you can. Or.... So you will ignore the In-Verse explanation to make speculation valid instead?
Fascinating.>
Well, if you could avoid the irony, I'd appreciate it.
Secondly, I didnt ignore any explanation,
@Kamiyasha could those links be added to medaka's profile to avoid confussion in the future?
Fascinating.>
Well, if you could avoid the irony, I'd appreciate it.
Secondly, I didnt ignore any explanation,
@Kamiyasha could those links be added to medaka's profile to avoid confussion in the future?
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@KamiYasha To be fair, that's nothing short of showing favoritism to Medaka Box. I've seen a ton of verses out there that fail to get upgraded based on arguments like "It was just an statement".
Then Medaka gets to Universal because she has one page where she steps on a fodder character, does not kill him and a description/statement says "she has Universal power" and that's insta accepted despite everything else pointing to the contrary?
...I'm usually all for upgrades but in this particular case It really makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Then Medaka gets to Universal because she has one page where she steps on a fodder character, does not kill him and a description/statement says "she has Universal power" and that's insta accepted despite everything else pointing to the contrary?
...I'm usually all for upgrades but in this particular case It really makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
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Even the moon thing was a major plot point and EoS Medaka had tons of problems with it. Making her Universal+ contradicts that entirely.
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It would have more proof tbh if it was said multiple times but that was it. And it really wasn't made full use of after. So even possible is kinda outlierish. But then again last time I saw a scenario like this was Universal Dante after a single WoG which I pointed out was worded strangely.
Otherwise I'd be happily buffing Touhou up like a certain Supes fanboy would to his non consistent beleifs.
Huh, I actually agree with Fate for once. Is that a Christmas Miracle?
Otherwise I'd be happily buffing Touhou up like a certain Supes fanboy would to his non consistent beleifs.
Huh, I actually agree with Fate for once. Is that a Christmas Miracle?
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@COB ROFL, I just noticed that. It is.
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@KamiYasha Also, in both those threads that you linked the matter was not solved. Rather the threads were left behind before reaching a conclusion.
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Ugh? favoritism? Mostly if not all of the admins had their own preference, but everyone here is neutral when it comes to upgrades or downgrades.
Your "arguments" didn't bring anything new to this topic.
Like i said: This topic has already been discussed several times, this was one the topics that make me had a terrible headache.
Medaka Box isn't something that you can explain just like that.
Your "arguments" didn't bring anything new to this topic.
Like i said: This topic has already been discussed several times, this was one the topics that make me had a terrible headache.
Medaka Box isn't something that you can explain just like that.
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Tell me more about how Medaka has anything to support that Universal status of her aside from that "Yeah, this skill that steps on someone creates a Universe though NOTHING Universe related was seen anywhere at all or even mentioned after this page".FateAlbane said:
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Can't we just make them unknown then and then lock it up in a Medaka Box? : D Eh? Eh?
In all seriousness though, if it's such a headache to try and figure out and argue about. With Medaka Box it's kinda hard to unders- well no that's wrong. It's hard to understand. Course once I reread the manga I'll certainly try to change this in the future. Or not.
In all seriousness though, if it's such a headache to try and figure out and argue about. With Medaka Box it's kinda hard to unders- well no that's wrong. It's hard to understand. Course once I reread the manga I'll certainly try to change this in the future. Or not.
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I'm on the line on this, because I don't know how to handle statements. On one hand, we upgraded legit all of the Royal Knights to immeasurable due to a guidebook statement. On the other hand, Kirby being 3-A was denied even though he has a surprisingly large amount of limitless/infinite/immeasurable statements and a universal outlier feat.
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I'm saying that the whole "We can upgrade it just based on that statement because Medaka Box is supposed to be a novel/parody/whatever" is unfair to other series. None of them get such easy upgrades. Once again, Universal Medaka contradicts her other feats shown. Not to mention that her power is mostly focused in hax, not actual AP.KamiYasha said:
And which arguments? You say they didn't bring anything while not actually saying the reasons why. Also this quote doesn't make any sense either. I'm not trying to explain its hax or anything. I'm saying that Unknown is far more fair, because Medaka doesn't have anywhere near enough proof for solid Universal+.
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Yeah, I can agree with this. Top Tiers of Medaka Box are all a mess of Tiers, pretty hard to make heads or tails with them.CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
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Yeah. Putting them all at unknown might be the best option if it's such an out of nowhere thing.
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Funny you say that, the others are all at Unknown already. If this gets through, Medaka will be the last one to join them. LOL
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Yeah, no.
Mostly of them are Unknown? Yes. Why? Because some of them have a completely overpowered hax skill.
Aside Ajimu that has different reasons. IIhiko has something so overpowered that even THE END doesn't work. Both Zenkichi and Nienami have a ludicrous skills that makes the impossible possible...leaving aside All Fiction adn etc.
Mostly of them are Unknown? Yes. Why? Because some of them have a completely overpowered hax skill.
Aside Ajimu that has different reasons. IIhiko has something so overpowered that even THE END doesn't work. Both Zenkichi and Nienami have a ludicrous skills that makes the impossible possible...leaving aside All Fiction adn etc.
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Still a mess of tiers. All of their supposedly "haxxed" skill later got destroyed by another even more absurd skill in a mess of hax without any AP shown that made it pretty much impossible to gauge the full extent of what they can or can't do when it comes to destructive capacity.
The Unknown they got is the very definition of random mess of tiers without anyone knowing the exact limits of what their hax can or cannot destroy/affect. Nonetheless, hax is hax. AP is AP. And there's no Universal hax going for them or... Well, at least not for Medaka.
I won't even argue about the others.
The Unknown they got is the very definition of random mess of tiers without anyone knowing the exact limits of what their hax can or cannot destroy/affect. Nonetheless, hax is hax. AP is AP. And there's no Universal hax going for them or... Well, at least not for Medaka.
I won't even argue about the others.
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- Thread starter
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Just read the threads. Pfff.
-Not only they were not concluded, the discussion was ignored and she was upgrade just to avoid the argument and not continue it.
-She has Zero Planet level and Universal level feats.
-Her feat couldn't even kill a fodder human. I know it will treated as PIS, however, in combat is useless as it's her only feat. That guy isn't a Universe or Universal tanker.
-Her Tier should be Unknown since the extent of her abilities are unknown.
-Not only they were not concluded, the discussion was ignored and she was upgrade just to avoid the argument and not continue it.
-She has Zero Planet level and Universal level feats.
-Her feat couldn't even kill a fodder human. I know it will treated as PIS, however, in combat is useless as it's her only feat. That guy isn't a Universe or Universal tanker.
-Her Tier should be Unknown since the extent of her abilities are unknown.
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It's sounds like to me that Medaka should just join the rest of the others of her verse as an Unknown.
There's just so much stuff to try and sort through but if it's all based on haxx, what can we really tell? Yes, we might be able to say one character from the verse is superior to another but that leads to incredible amounts of confusion when you take them out of the verse and put them against characters from outside it. If we can't even tell what their AP is because so much hax is flying around then anything involving them instantly becomes a headache and then divides people on the yay or nay side of what they can and cannot do.
Simply put: it's a series whose mechainics are so crazy that they only seem to really fit when pitted against themselves and don't play nicely with anyone else.
This also doesn't seem to be a case of a gag character like Arale who does things outside of logic but has clear indications of where she stands (above post Trunks' arc Goku and Vegeta but probably below Beerus and Whis), a more straight forward parody character like Saitama (who we know is the most powerful thing in his verse and we just basically wait for him and his crew to show feats and then calc them) or a seriously powerful character like Franklin Richards (who creates pocket universes as a child and whose future self can enslave abstracts).
There's just so much stuff to try and sort through but if it's all based on haxx, what can we really tell? Yes, we might be able to say one character from the verse is superior to another but that leads to incredible amounts of confusion when you take them out of the verse and put them against characters from outside it. If we can't even tell what their AP is because so much hax is flying around then anything involving them instantly becomes a headache and then divides people on the yay or nay side of what they can and cannot do.
Simply put: it's a series whose mechainics are so crazy that they only seem to really fit when pitted against themselves and don't play nicely with anyone else.
This also doesn't seem to be a case of a gag character like Arale who does things outside of logic but has clear indications of where she stands (above post Trunks' arc Goku and Vegeta but probably below Beerus and Whis), a more straight forward parody character like Saitama (who we know is the most powerful thing in his verse and we just basically wait for him and his crew to show feats and then calc them) or a seriously powerful character like Franklin Richards (who creates pocket universes as a child and whose future self can enslave abstracts).
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@C2 /\ One of the best, if not the best input I've seen in this thread so far.
I wholeheartedly agree with you and couldn't have worded it any better.
I wholeheartedly agree with you and couldn't have worded it any better.
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>the discussion was ignored and she was upgrade just to avoid the argument and not continue it.
Nope. Already discussed several times even before i ended up here in this wiki.
>in combat is useless as it's her only feat.
Not exactly. As the Attack Potency page says: The attack potency depends upon the energy output of the attack, not the area of effect of the attack
Certainly Create =/= Busting (In fact create something requires more energy than destroy it)
Nope. Already discussed several times even before i ended up here in this wiki.
>in combat is useless as it's her only feat.
Not exactly. As the Attack Potency page says: The attack potency depends upon the energy output of the attack, not the area of effect of the attack
Certainly Create =/= Busting (In fact create something requires more energy than destroy it)
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Honestly I agree with the downgrades as well
It would be like saying the same thing for other characters, such as:
-Hao would be upgraded to tier 0 because a girl who was hit by an attack by him or sensed his energy said he was "Omnipotent and Omniscient" with the great spirit
-Arceus would also become tier 0 for having an ability that's literally called Omnipotent, same thing like Ajimu
-Hoopa would become at the very least a solid 3-A because in the manga Barza stated that Hoopa's rings possessed infinite power
-Buzz Light year would become Tier 0 for the fact he can travel to "Infinity and Beyond! (no joke intended :^)
-Kaguya/Ten Tails would become 3-A or more due to Toneri stating that the Juubi possessed Infinite Chakra and "Immeasurable Power". Along with the NV in general becoming universe level due to Toneri saying "The Shinobi of the earth would use chakra to destroy the universe"
-Ywhach would become Universe Level due to the manipulation of Souls between the human world and SS, which done improperly can destroy the "universes" balance
And so much more
It would be like saying the same thing for other characters, such as:
-Hao would be upgraded to tier 0 because a girl who was hit by an attack by him or sensed his energy said he was "Omnipotent and Omniscient" with the great spirit
-Arceus would also become tier 0 for having an ability that's literally called Omnipotent, same thing like Ajimu
-Hoopa would become at the very least a solid 3-A because in the manga Barza stated that Hoopa's rings possessed infinite power
-Buzz Light year would become Tier 0 for the fact he can travel to "Infinity and Beyond! (no joke intended :^)
-Kaguya/Ten Tails would become 3-A or more due to Toneri stating that the Juubi possessed Infinite Chakra and "Immeasurable Power". Along with the NV in general becoming universe level due to Toneri saying "The Shinobi of the earth would use chakra to destroy the universe"
-Ywhach would become Universe Level due to the manipulation of Souls between the human world and SS, which done improperly can destroy the "universes" balance
And so much more
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@KamiYasha I think Apple meant the two threads that you linked, as in both of them the discussion was indeed not concluded (and the last word was given by the OP in one of them, too, before it was all left behind).
And Medaka only has some random words saying "Create an universe skill" while fodderizing a fodder character by stepping on him going for that supposed "Universal power", we didn't see anything that would remotely indicate anything of that level anywhere.
And Medaka only has some random words saying "Create an universe skill" while fodderizing a fodder character by stepping on him going for that supposed "Universal power", we didn't see anything that would remotely indicate anything of that level anywhere.
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And to further support my comment, didnt a statement in Avatar Legend of Korra say something about Universe Level Korra? Such as Tenzin saying something like "Through the Tree of Time, you can connect to the Cosmic Energy of the Universe"
Take this at face value and we get Universe Level Korra now?
Take this at face value and we get Universe Level Korra now?
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- Thread starter
- #77
@Kami
Possibly, I wasn't there and you didn't link those either. (Unless, you're referring to those same ones.) That was my conclusion after speed reading the threads you posted, it didn't "concluded" looks like it was closed to avoid further discussions.
But then you have her "Universal" feat\statement since it wasn't shown, been unable to harm fodder. Anyone, above that guy can tank her weak energy, specially when the feat is not even shown.
Possibly, I wasn't there and you didn't link those either. (Unless, you're referring to those same ones.) That was my conclusion after speed reading the threads you posted, it didn't "concluded" looks like it was closed to avoid further discussions.
But then you have her "Universal" feat\statement since it wasn't shown, been unable to harm fodder. Anyone, above that guy can tank her weak energy, specially when the feat is not even shown.
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@Professor Thanks, that provides further examples and reasons as for why Universal Medaka going only from that does not make sense. Because if the statement is all it takes despite contradictions in the story and nothing that would suggest that level of power being shown, all of these (well, maybe not the Buzz one, LOL) would pretty much be accepted as well.
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@Fate exactly, especially the Korra one. Take her statment about the tree of time seriously and the Avatar Verse would be getting Universe Level characters....
Also NP as its my job to help the young ones. Ya know...bein a professor and all, oh yeah! xD
Also NP as its my job to help the young ones. Ya know...bein a professor and all, oh yeah! xD
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Like i already said: Those two thread are just mere examples. I've seen many like those.
Good luck trying to find all the others. I'm not even gonna bother.
And i'm going to repeat AGAIN.
This topic has ALREADY been discussed. Moren than one, more than two and more than fifteen times. I'm still surprise that we didn't make a rule about this topic (Just like we did with Ajimu and IIhiko's threads). No one (Not even in this thread) since those old threads and the forgotten comment section has bring any "new and revelant" info to stand out.
Good luck trying to find all the others. I'm not even gonna bother.
And i'm going to repeat AGAIN.
This topic has ALREADY been discussed. Moren than one, more than two and more than fifteen times. I'm still surprise that we didn't make a rule about this topic (Just like we did with Ajimu and IIhiko's threads). No one (Not even in this thread) since those old threads and the forgotten comment section has bring any "new and revelant" info to stand out.
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