Medaka Box General Discussion

[Rufy1213]

Most of this is stuff I've already addressed, and where you didn't actually bring any new evidence/arguments. So, just responding to the newer stuff.

If you're arguing that Kumagawa should get Breaking the Fourth Wall as an ability, I'd kinda disagree, but don't really care too much. If you're using something like this to justify Kumagawa being Tier 2/1, then I'd have to strongly disagree. Kumagawa's physicals scale to, like, two thirds of the cast. We can't have two-thirds of the series given a high rating due to seeing themselves as fiction, that's an incoherent loop.

Homie. They just know about other manga because they live in a world modestly similar to ours, which literally has WSJ, including those manga. That's not evidence for them seeing their own world as fictional.

It is something we include in Medaka Kurokami's page, as well as Iihiko's, and Zenkichi's. We include it as luck, as it seems to function as an extension of her extraordinary luck established in the Thirteen Party Arc, and since that feature itself is often described in terms of luck, itself.

But you look I found a single Scan that denies many things you are saying. Najimi explains the abilities to the reader and it doesn't seem like something that a character does without awareness of the fourth wall and then states that Kumagawa's abilities are the only ones that scratch her because she is a not equal which I've been trying to explain to you since the beginning, you would also like to debate this. For me they should all be brought towards the minimum 2-C and they would also be debunked at 2-C. Always if you still don't want to tell me that they have delusions of omnipotence, among other things I would like to add that it makes no sense to say that it is a manifestation of luck because the tiers are not made for your interpretations and It is explicitly defined as the power of the hero in Medaka box and not as a manifestation of Medaka's luck so what you are calling luck is nothing more than a wrong interpretation of a sentence in the work also because otherwise the answer would not be the anti-protagonist that is written to Zenkichi. By the way, despite the scan I sent you below, Medaka copies Kumagawa, which also associates her with a higher dimensionality.
https://www.google.com/search?q=kum...bih=688&sxsrf=AHTn8zqZKwjewa3ZVstcWiJNLcbtM2z jKg%3A1746261433208&ei=udUVaJvBDNSC9u8P0dK-mAk&oq=all+fiction+power+ku&gs_lp=EhJtb2JpbGUtZ 3dzLXdpei1pbWciFGFsbCBmaWN0aW9uIHBvd2VyIGt1KgIIADIGEAAYCBgeMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogQyCBA AGIAEGKIESLwUUP0HWLoOcAB4AJABAJgBnAGgAd8DqgEDMS4zuAEByAEA-AEBmAIEoAKFBMICBxAjGCcYyQLCAggQ ABgTGAcYHsICBxAAGIAEGBPCAgYQABgTGB6YAwCIBgGSBwMwLjSgB6UKsgcDMC40uAeFBA&sclient=mobile-gws- wiz-img#sv=CAMSiwUa5QQKlgIKuQEStgEKd0FBLUtUaGZnaHk4eGgzMF9aa3JBekVZbmphR3NEOXE1bDkwUXIxeG9 TT2Y2aE84REhwcUZ4TWtOVDg5bnZJX3ZkSEI3RHQ1cFhISXk2eEJ1NVg0OVJlSjExUWR3S1J3bHBTS3hlNFNJdl9PS lJtQlVOOHNSaEhvEhd2ZFVWYU9PR0xmUzc5dThQMi1Db2tRcxoiQUNEWEw0bnRSbG5ZWmJXcEFJTlQxbEllZzFiRW 1lU2gyURIDODQ5GgEzIh8KAXESGmt1bWFnYXdhIGFsbCBmaWN0aW9uIHBvd2VyIgcKA3RicxIAIiYKBGVxbGQSHkNn SUlBQkFBT2dRSUFCQUFWYUhNa3o1dFU3TFBQURK2AgrPARLMAQqMAUFBLUtUaGYzeFBKOGhzUlhOQWNtbDM4OU83a0 Ywd1phb3NHcDhmdGc3ZHpvQzZuc05oMVlVTnhzcVlLX211MzZuWUk2ZVlieWhVWWR6ekRxR0JwR0t1RjNEOVhmR1V2 NDc0MWprdHdoQ1g0TjNpV1Vwd1pma1duY2QxSFFPcGhySk10dmhSOTdQSkdNEhd2ZFVWYU9PR0xmUzc5dThQMi1Db2 tRcxoiQUNEWEw0bUhFcmRVTFU0TlozalVsdFVFWEdieDZOYXh5QRIENDY5OBoBMyIYCgZpbWdkaWkSDm1RYUFGcWRj a25ndE5NIhcKBWRvY2lkEg42TGYzRktIOEVSYXVTTSImCgRlcWxkEh5DZ0lJQUJBQU9nUUlBQkFBVmFITWt6NXRVN0 xQUFEaEXN2X21RYUFGcWRja25ndE5NIAQqHQoGbW9zYWljEhNlLXN2X21RYUFGcWRja25ndE5NMAEYByCDg9LDAjAB

 

[Rufy1213]

Most of this is stuff I've already addressed, and where you didn't actually bring any new evidence/arguments. So, just responding to the newer stuff.

If you're arguing that Kumagawa should get Breaking the Fourth Wall as an ability, I'd kinda disagree, but don't really care too much. If you're using something like this to justify Kumagawa being Tier 2/1, then I'd have to strongly disagree. Kumagawa's physicals scale to, like, two thirds of the cast. We can't have two-thirds of the series given a high rating due to seeing themselves as fiction, that's an incoherent loop.

Homie. They just know about other manga because they live in a world modestly similar to ours, which literally has WSJ, including those manga. That's not evidence for them seeing their own world as fictional.

It is something we include in Medaka Kurokami's page, as well as Iihiko's, and Zenkichi's. We include it as luck, as it seems to function as an extension of her extraordinary luck established in the Thirteen Party Arc, and since that feature itself is often described in terms of luck, itself.

By the way why shouldn't you scale it higher? I mean the whole universe because of kumagawa's abilities, it doesn't make sense as a statement, other universes can be scaled like this and medaka box can't? It doesn't make sense. Then I renew the invitation to you to watch the latest episode of the anime and pay attention to both the uses of all fiction and to najimi's high awareness of the fourth wall and if you also already made it factual when I sent you the photo of her looking at us and thanking us for seeing medaka box and you said that that is indeed awareness of the fourth wall then you should at least already give it to her plus I add that regardless of what you're saying, even as you put it if the shonen Jump universe exists they know more complex universes like dragon ball and since najimi is omniscient and surpasses dimensions she should already be scaled higher, not to mention medaka who copies abilities even just by hearsay or sight.

 

[Agnaa]

and then states that Kumagawa's abilities are the only ones that scratch her because she is a not equal

Other abilities technically work, they just aren't sufficient to defeat her, because of how many broken abilities she has. On top of Bookmaker/All Fiction, we've also seen Parasite Seeing, The End, Irreversible Destruction, the Doppelgangers' copying, and Momo's sealing (although that one, not for long) work on her. There is literally nothing indicating that because of some status of hers, that she's harder to affect in general.

For me they should all be brought towards the minimum 2-C and they would also be debunked at 2-C.

What scales them to the destruction of two entire timelines?

I would like to add that it makes no sense to say that it is a manifestation of luck because the tiers are not made for your interpretations and It is explicitly defined as the power of the hero in Medaka box and not as a manifestation of Medaka's luck so what you are calling luck is nothing more than a wrong interpretation of a sentence in the work

[citation needed]

also because otherwise the answer would not be the anti-protagonist that is written to Zenkichi.

Why not? We're explicitly told that Zenkichi's ability, Devil Style, nullifies coincidences, because main characters are usually just really lucky.

We know that other forms of shutting down supernatural luck wouldn't work, because those aren't effective even on other abnormals.

By the way, despite the scan I sent you below, Medaka copies Kumagawa, which also associates her with a higher dimensionality.

If you're doing that sort of scaling, then...

• Bookmaker and Parasite Seeing scale to Hansode's Real Eater, which was used to give Model Zenkichi to Zenkichi, and Theme Song to Hinokage. Model Zenkichi was ultimately beaten by Nienami using Contradictory Conjunction, and Theme Song was beaten by Gagamaru's use of Encounter.
• All Fiction is unable to erase any minus, scaling it to every character with a minus. Including Naze, whose Ice Fire was matched by Sui's Style; including Emukae whose Raff Rafflesia was taken on by Zenkichi and his mother, as well as giving more support to Hansode and Gagamaru scaling. Zenkichi ends up scaling to a ludicrous amount of characters. All Fiction is also unable to heal wounds inflicted by Irreversible Destruction, but I'll elaborate on that branch of scaling later.
• The End seems like it would've been able to be stolen by Oudo's Unreasonable Taxation, although he was scared of the idea of taking on the monster that lived inside Medaka, he presumably would've technically been able to do it. The End was also able to be turned off through Naze's Normalize Liquid.
• Irreversible Destruction was able to be replicated through the Shiranui bloodline, and was able to be bypassed through Kotobuki's Style.
• Heck, the Shiranui bloodline were created by Ajimu to act as backups for her, with their Doppelgangers being able to replicate Ajimu perfectly. Yet this means of defense, and all others they had, weren't enough to stop Iihiko from annihilating their village. Iihiko in general was inconvenienced by a truck, was astonished by being able to dispense enough power to destroy a hospital, and would've died if the moon crashed into Earth. Yet he was vulnerable to the Contradictory Conjunction Style. And we also know from volume extras that Kakegae's Metonymy could be used to make herself an exact, equally-powerful copy of Iihiko or Medaka, not just a copy of Nienami. Given how Fukurou invented almost everyone's Styles, he could presumably do this too.

So like, what's your view of the series?

That, like, 17 characters see the series as fiction, or have power on that level for no reason?

And that these characters are that strong, despite there being far more anti-feats than there are supporting indications for that sorta thing?

To some extent I get it, you're pointing at part of the work, but you're not thinking about how those few scenes you cherrypick interact with the series as a whole.

By the way why shouldn't you scale it higher? I mean the whole universe because of kumagawa's abilities, it doesn't make sense as a statement, other universes can be scaled like this and medaka box can't? It doesn't make sense.

I don't understand what you're saying.

plus I add that regardless of what you're saying, even as you put it if the shonen Jump universe exists they know more complex universes like dragon ball and since najimi is omniscient and surpasses dimensions she should already be scaled higher

As a matter of policy, we don't scale series to references of other works, as we don't know how much of the other work the author is aware of. And oftentimes, the important parts for big cosmologies, as you indicate, were released after those references were written, so it'd make no sense to include them regardless.

But beyond that, due to them being fictional in-universe, there's no reason for them to relate to any character's stats. Even if Ajimu knew about a series with a High 1-B cosmology, that wouldn't give her power over one.

And, again, Ajimu is never stated to "surpass dimensions". The only scan you posted like that was about Contradictory Conjunction. And even that was a shoddy translation.

not to mention medaka who copies abilities even just by hearsay or sight.

Refer to above about scaling to other series.

Plus, we have no indication that Medaka can do that for abilities which are fictional to her.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

seeing all of this really does make me feel good about being on the whole schizo-jimu train instead of the whole unbeatable fourth-wall breaking god train people were on years ago.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Can we talk about who would be the best voice actor Iihiko Shishime instead please?

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Can we talk about who would be the best voice actor Iihiko Shishime instead please?

Only on Tuesdays

~~the type of voice he'd have would have to compensate pretty well for the type of laugh Iihiko has, at least I'd imagine. I don't think he'd sound raspy but they wouldn't have too much base~~

edit: huh, thought the crossing out text function would work that way like how it does on discord, guess not

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Only on Tuesdays

~~the type of voice he'd have would have to compensate pretty well for the type of laugh Iihiko has, at least I'd imagine. I don't think he'd sound raspy but they wouldn't have too much base~~

All I’m saying is, I cannot unhear Iihiko sounding like Geese Howard to some extent.

Also, as much as I want Medaka Box to be smoking the Gurren Lagann cosmology pack (because it would be funny if the cosmology was 11-D), it doesn’t. And none of the characters by themselves are higher dimensional, as even regular students interact with all the characters pretty normally I’d say. And (unfortunately) none of the hax in the verse scales to the full cosmology (All Fiction is limited to the one universe as far as I can tell), so even 2-C isn’t really possible…

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Also, as much as I want Medaka Box to be smoking the Gurren Lagann cosmology pack (because it would be funny if the cosmology was 11-D), it doesn’t. And none of the characters by themselves are higher dimensional, as even regular students interact with all the characters pretty normally I’d say. And (unfortunately) none of the hax in the verse scales to the full cosmology (All Fiction is limited to the one universe as far as I can tell), so even 2-C isn’t really possible…

Man, and if I told you that Ajimu scales to Kumagawa at her best aside from surviving Iihiko..

 

[Rufy1213]

Altre abilità tecnicamente funzionano, ma non sono sufficienti per sconfiggerla, a causa delle sue numerose abilità compromesse. Oltre a Bookmaker/All Fiction, abbiamo visto anche Parasite Seeing, The End, Irreversible Destruction, la copia dei Doppelganger e il sigillo di Momo (anche se quest'ultimo non per molto) funzionare su di lei. Non c'è letteralmente nulla che indichi che, a causa di un suo status, sia più difficile da influenzare in generale.

Cosa li porta a distruggere due intere linee temporali?

[citazione necessaria]

Perché no? Ci viene detto esplicitamente che l'abilità di Zenkichi, lo Stile del Diavolo, annulla le coincidenze, perché i personaggi principali di solito sono semplicemente molto fortunati .

Sappiamo che altri metodi per contrastare la fortuna sovrannaturale non funzionerebbero, perché non sono efficaci nemmeno su altri esseri anormali.

Se si sta effettuando questo tipo di ridimensionamento, allora...

• Bookmaker e Parasite Seeing sono paragonabili al Real Eater di Hansode, che è stato usato per dare il Modello Zenkichi a Zenkichi e la Sigla a Hinokage. Il Modello Zenkichi è stato infine sconfitto da Nienami usando la Congiunzione Contraddittoria, e la Sigla è stata sconfitta dall'uso di Incontro da parte di Gagamaru.
• All Fiction non è in grado di cancellare alcun segno negativo, ridimensionandolo a ogni personaggio con un segno negativo. Incluso Naze, il cui Fuoco di Ghiaccio è stato eguagliato dallo Stile di Sui; incluso Emukae, la cui Raff Rafflesia è stata affrontata da Zenkichi e sua madre, oltre a dare maggiore supporto al ridimensionamento di Hansode e Gagamaru. Zenkichi finisce per ridimensionarsi a un numero ridicolo di personaggi. All Fiction non è nemmeno in grado di curare le ferite inflitte da Distruzione Irreversibile, ma approfondirò questo aspetto del ridimensionamento più avanti.
• Sembrava che l'End avrebbe potuto essere rubato dalla Tassazione Irragionevole di Oudo, e sebbene l'idea di affrontare il mostro che viveva dentro Medaka lo spaventasse, presumibilmente tecnicamente sarebbe stato in grado di farlo. L'End poteva anche essere disattivato tramite il Liquido Normalizzante di Naze.
• La Distruzione Irreversibile poteva essere replicata tramite la linea di sangue degli Shiranui, e poteva essere aggirata tramite lo Stile di Kotobuki.
• Cavolo, la linea di sangue degli Shiranui era stata creata da Ajimu per fungere da riserva per lei, con i loro Doppelganger in grado di replicare Ajimu alla perfezione. Eppure questo mezzo di difesa, e tutti gli altri a loro disposizione, non erano sufficienti a impedire a Iihiko di annientare il loro villaggio. Iihiko in generale era stato ostacolato da un camion, era sbalordito dalla capacità di erogare abbastanza potere da distruggere un ospedale e sarebbe morto se la luna si fosse schiantata sulla Terra. Eppure era vulnerabile allo Stile della Congiunzione Contraddittoria. E sappiamo anche dagli extra del volume che la Metonimia di Kakegae poteva essere usata per trasformarsi in una copia esatta e altrettanto potente di Iihiko o Medaka, non solo in una copia di Nienami . Dato che Fukurou ha inventato gli Stili di quasi tutti, presumibilmente potrebbe fare anche lui la stessa cosa.

Quindi, qual è la tua opinione sulla serie?

Che, tipo, 17 personaggi vedono la serie come finzione o hanno potere a quel livello senza motivo?

E che questi personaggi siano così forti, nonostante ci siano molti più anti-imprese di quante indicazioni a supporto di ciò?

In un certo senso capisco, stai sottolineando una parte del lavoro, ma non stai pensando a come quelle poche scene che hai scelto interagiscono con la serie nel suo complesso.

Non capisco cosa stai dicendo.

Per politica aziendale, non adattiamo le serie ai riferimenti di altre opere, poiché non sappiamo quanto di queste l'autore sia a conoscenza. E spesso, come hai indicato, le parti importanti per le grandi cosmologie sono state pubblicate dopo la stesura di quei riferimenti, quindi non avrebbe senso includerli a prescindere.

Ma oltre a questo, essendo personaggi fittizi all'interno dell'universo, non c'è motivo per cui debbano essere correlati alle statistiche di alcun personaggio. Anche se Ajimu fosse a conoscenza di una serie con una cosmologia di livello 1-B, questo non le darebbe alcun potere su di essa.

E, ripeto, non si dice mai che Ajimu "superi le dimensioni". L'unica scansione che hai pubblicato in quel modo riguardava la Congiunzione Contraddittoria. E anche quella era una traduzione scadente.

Per quanto riguarda il ridimensionamento ad altre serie, fare riferimento a quanto sopra.

Inoltre, non abbiamo alcuna indicazione che Medaka possa farlo per abilità che per lei sono fittizie.

do you realize that you put everyone at 8-B and even if I put people like kumagawa who breaks universes with his thoughts you keep him at 8-B with all fiction he's at least 2-C and with him he should be followed by najimi and medaka... people then come and tell me that I'm 8-B, but do you realize that it's a completely wrong tier?

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

do you realize that it's a completely wrong tier?

Do you realize you've probably long since lost the argument?

 

[Rufy1213]

Ti rendi conto che probabilmente hai perso la discussione da tempo?

allora dammi una buona ragione per cui una persona che può cancellare i colori dall'universo è 8-B e la stessa cosa vale per una persona che divide la luna, se ho perso confuta tutte le mie scansioni con argomenti che non siano interpretazioni errate dei personaggi e per favore sii convincente.

Ti rendi conto che probabilmente hai perso la discussione da tempo?

 

[Agnaa]

do you realize that you put everyone at 8-B

Gonna be 9-A, soon.

and even if I put people like kumagawa who breaks universes with his thoughts

He doesn't. That's why he doesn't have a rating for that.

There's one vague statement by a character that doesn't have any reason to understand his ability well, which doesn't make sense if interpreted that way. And there's one statement which is right next to a lie and is obviously, in a similar vein, merely meant to intimidate regardless of the factuality.

 

[Rufy1213]

Gonna be 9-A, soon.

He doesn't. That's why he doesn't have a rating for that.

There's one vague statement by a character that doesn't have any reason to understand his ability well, which doesn't make sense if interpreted that way. And there's one statement which is right next to a lie and is obviously, in a similar vein, merely meant to intimidate regardless of the factuality.

I ask you with all my heart, please write me your scale and I'll see if you'll be convincing because for now you've only based yourself on your interpretations and futile statements, I've based myself on scans and facts.

 

[Agnaa]

Pretty much how the current pages are. Except most characters will be 9-A instead, scaling to Unzen's wall-kick. Iihiko-fight Medaka and Hansode!Iihiko will scale to High 8-C for destroying the hospital, and EoS Medaka will scale to 5-C for destroying the moon.

 

[Rufy1213]

Più o meno come le pagine attuali. Solo che la maggior parte dei personaggi sarà di livello 9-A, con un livello di scala pari al calcio a muro di Unzen. Iihiko combatte Medaka e Hansode! Iihiko raggiungerà il livello 8-C per aver distrutto l'ospedale, e Medaka di EoS raggiungerà il livello 5-C per aver distrutto la luna.

For all fiction Watch this...

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

Kumagawa defeating the Ajimu clone is making more and more sense everyday

 

[Agnaa]

For all fiction Watch this...

Erasing all colours is irrelevant for the destruction a character can exert. Colours are non-physical, so being able to erase them tells us nothing about how much matter he could erase.

Plus, he only erased them for a period of time; we know that colour exists by the time the main series comes around. It's not even a timeline-wide thing.

 

[Rufy1213]

Erasing all colours is irrelevant for the destruction a character can exert. Colours are non-physical, so being able to erase them tells us nothing about how much matter he could erase.

Plus, he only erased them for a period of time; we know that colour exists by the time the main series comes around. It's not even a timeline-wide thing.

you realize that all the arrival of kumagawa they explain that what he erases can not be brought back in fact that is the buff of medaka that copies it 100 times better ... you make mistakes that make me think I'm talking to a person who hates the work.

 

[Rufy1213]

Erasing all colours is irrelevant for the destruction a character can exert. Colours are non-physical, so being able to erase them tells us nothing about how much matter he could erase.

Plus, he only erased them for a period of time; we know that colour exists by the time the main series comes around. It's not even a timeline-wide thing.

by the way you don't take the dream world into consideration at all and i consider this a very serious thing, being another dimension and many people you climb on the basis of the existence of a single dimension. i remind you that in that dimension najimi have her Powers and She Is present and travel between dimensions.

 

[Agnaa]

you realize that all the arrival of kumagawa they explain that what he erases can not be brought back in fact that is the buff of medaka that copies it 100 times better ... you make mistakes that make me think I'm talking to a person who hates the work.

Yes but we also have very clear indications that colour still exists after that.

Saki says that because the colour red has been erased, that people can no longer die of blood loss. This seems demonstrably untrue given later events.

We have characters comment on colours throughout the story. Most obviously, this remark from Ajimu.

Either colour come back somehow, or the author didn't actually write the work incorporating colour disappearing forever. Regardless, it's clearly not some timeline-spanning feat.

by the way you don't take the dream world into consideration at all and i consider this a very serious thing, being another dimension and many people you climb on the basis of the existence of a single dimension. i remind you that in that dimension najimi have her Powers and She Is present and travel between dimensions.

What about it? It's some other space that happens to exist in the cosmology, which Ajimu can travel to.

 

[Rufy1213]

Yes but we also have very clear indications that colour still exists after that.

Saki says that because the colour red has been erased, that people can no longer die of blood loss. This seems demonstrably untrue given later events.

We have characters comment on colours throughout the story. Most obviously, this remark from Ajimu.

Either colour come back somehow, or the author didn't actually write the work incorporating colour disappearing forever. Regardless, it's clearly not some timeline-spanning feat.

What about it? It's some other space that happens to exist in the cosmology, which Ajimu can travel to.

regarding your first statement i was considering the manga at that time and i also sent you a scan that explains the features of all fiction. regarding your second statement instead yes exactly, the dream world would be another space of the medaka box cosmology that should be taken into consideration for scaling and in which najimi has power i remind you. and despite being in that dimension and being defined several times fome not equal and not influenced by abilities kumagawa can touch it and hit it with abilities.

 

[Agnaa]

regarding your first statement i was considering the manga at that time and i also sent you a scan that explains the features of all fiction

Well, we're told that Kumagawa himself can't bring those things back, until he eventually can.

For something to truly be timeline-wide, it has to affect all of time individually. It has to apply its effect in the past, in the present, and in the future. On the contrary, All Fiction merely seems to apply an effect in the present (or shortly in the past), and have it naturally be absent from that. I'd expect that his erasure of colour worked similarly; he erased it in the present and so it stopped existing, but it still existed in the past, and some process was able to return it in the future.

I think that lines up nicely with everything.

regarding your second statement instead yes exactly, the dream world would be another space of the medaka box cosmology that should be taken into consideration for scaling

Only if someone scales to it.

and despite being in that dimension and being defined several times fome not equal and not influenced by abilities kumagawa can touch it and hit it with abilities.

Not sure what you're talking about here. Anyone who's brought into there can interact with it normally, since it's just another space. We see Zenkichi and Emukae do just that.

 

[Rufy1213]

Ebbene, ci è stato detto che Kumagawa stesso non può riportare indietro quelle cose, finché non ci riuscirà.

Perché qualcosa sia davvero esteso all'intera linea temporale, deve influenzare tutto il tempo individualmente. Deve applicare il suo effetto nel passato, nel presente e nel futuro. Al contrario, All Fiction sembra semplicemente applicare un effetto al presente (o a breve nel passato), e farlo naturalmente assente da esso. Mi aspetterei che la sua cancellazione del colore funzionasse in modo simile; lo cancellava nel presente e quindi cessava di esistere, ma continuava a esistere nel passato, e un qualche processo era in grado di riportarlo nel futuro.

Penso che si adatti bene a tutto.

Solo se qualcuno è all'altezza.

Non sono sicuro di cosa tu stia parlando. Chiunque venga portato lì dentro può interagire normalmente, dato che è solo un altro spazio. Vediamo Zenkichi ed Emukae fare proprio questo.

Well, we're told that Kumagawa himself can't bring those things back, until he eventually can.

For something to truly be timeline-wide, it has to affect all of time individually. It has to apply its effect in the past, in the present, and in the future. On the contrary, All Fiction merely seems to apply an effect in the present (or shortly in the past), and have it naturally be absent from that. I'd expect that his erasure of colour worked similarly; he erased it in the present and so it stopped existing, but it still existed in the past, and some process was able to return it in the future.

I think that lines up nicely with everything.

Only if someone scales to it.

Not sure what you're talking about here. Anyone who's brought into there can interact with it normally, since it's just another space. We see Zenkichi and Emukae do just that.

as far as your first statement is concerned, it is absolutely wrong because it is an interpretation that you are basing on a single episode and no it has never been said that kumagawa brings things back, bring me a scan to confirm this from the manga because the only one who can put things back that he erases is medaka. as far as the second statement is concerned, it is not like that, it is a space in which najimi is when she was sealed by kumagawa who influences her even though she belongs to a higher dimension and I mean that in that space you are not free to use your abilities except kumagawa and medaka who apparently transcend this dimensionality. by dream world I mean the place they go to when they "die".

 

[Agnaa]

as far as your first statement is concerned, it is absolutely wrong because it is an interpretation that you are basing on a single episode and no it has never been said that kumagawa brings things back, bring me a scan to confirm this from the manga because the only one who can put things back that he erases is medaka.

Kumagawa combined Unskilled with All Fiction for April Fiction, letting him erase objects for only a few minutes, before returning things to normal.

In Good Loser Kumagawa Final Chapter, Kumagawa mentions that he gained "Non Fiction" around the time of the Iihiko fight, letting him return things he erased, so he's going around the country doing just that.

Unlike most other MB content, I don't actually have that saved to my computer, so it'd take me a little longer if you want me to dig it up, but I still could if you insist.

as far as the second statement is concerned, it is not like that, it is a space in which najimi is when she was sealed by kumagawa

This isn't true. Ajimu appears in the dream world while sealed to many characters, such as her Not Equals during the Good Loser Kumagawa novels, or to Zenkichi when he gets nearly killed by Kumagawa, so she can exchange abilities with them. And after the seal is partially removed (between chapters ~93 and 140), she's in the physical world, but can also appear in the dream world if she so chooses due to Alibi Block.

and I mean that in that space you are not free to use your abilities except kumagawa and medaka who apparently transcend this dimensionality.

This is not true. Ajimu uses her ability to exchange abilities, and we see Emukae use her Minus in there.

Plus, there is literally nothing indicating that it's any harder to use one's abilities there.

by dream world I mean the place they go to when they "die".

I know, but this isn't really accurate. It's generally just Ajimu entering their hearts, letting her communicate with them.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this discussion has lasted long enough now, and that Agnaa makes good sense here.

 

[Agnaa]

I do like engaging with all arguments presented, if I have the energy for it, but I can stop if it's, like, clogging the thread.

 

[Antvasima]

If you do not consider it a waste of time of continue, you can probably do so if other members here do not mind.

 

[Rufy1213]

Kumagawa ha combinato Unskilled con All Fiction per April Fiction, consentendogli di cancellare gli oggetti solo per pochi minuti, prima di riportare le cose alla normalità .

Nel capitolo finale di Good Loser Kumagawa, Kumagawa afferma di aver ottenuto la "Non Fiction" all'epoca dello scontro con Iihiko, che gli ha permesso di restituire le cose che aveva cancellato, quindi se ne va in giro per il paese a fare proprio questo.

A differenza della maggior parte degli altri contenuti di MB, in realtà non li ho salvati sul mio computer, quindi mi ci vorrebbe un po' più di tempo se vuoi che li recuperi, ma potrei comunque farlo se insisti.

Questo non è vero. Ajimu appare nel mondo dei sogni mentre è sigillata a molti personaggi, come il suo Non Uguale nei romanzi di Good Loser Kumagawa, o a Zenkichi quando viene quasi ucciso da Kumagawa, in modo da poter scambiare abilità con loro. E dopo che il sigillo viene parzialmente rimosso (tra i capitoli 93 e 140 circa), si trova nel mondo fisico, ma può anche apparire nel mondo dei sogni se lo desidera grazie all'Alibi Block.

Non è vero. Ajimu usa la sua abilità per scambiare abilità, e vediamo Emukae usare il suo Minus lì .

Inoltre, non c'è letteralmente nulla che indichi che lì sia più difficile usare le proprie abilità.

Lo so, ma non è proprio così. Di solito è solo Ajimu che entra nei loro cuori, lasciandosi comunicare con loro.

I would like to compliment you because it is really nice to discuss this with you even if you probably don't care. Regarding your first statement there is a single thing wrong. Kumagawa merges two abilities but basic all fiction can't bring things back consequently you are giving a weakening to the character that he shouldn't have. Regarding the second statement that is regarding the dream world, emukae in fact does not hit najimi using the rafflesia in there. You contradict yourself a bit when you talk about alibi block and dimensional travel because you are associating alibi block as abilities and not the fact that najimi transcends dimensions or that she does things like control infinity. I understand your point of view but some of the abilities present in his explanations are like that and there is really little to explain, you are told that najimi governs the concepts and I don't think there is much to add about it. Besides how should the creator explain quadrillions of abilities to you if not like this. Yes, I insist on an explanation that says that all fiction brings things back by itself, I want a Scan that says exactly that, the one you brought me is just a fusion between two abilities that does not affect all fiction in any way. As for the dimension of dreams it should definitely be added to the dimensionality of the work.

 

[Rufy1213]

If you do not consider it a waste of time of continue, you can probably do so if other members here do not mind.

I'm sorry if I'm causing you any problems, I want to understand and at the same time put forward my opinion, I apologize.

 

[Antvasima]

I'm sorry if I'm causing you any problems, I want to understand and at the same time put forward my opinion, I apologize.

Okay. No problem then.

 

[Agnaa]

I would like to compliment you because it is really nice to discuss this with you even if you probably don't care. Regarding your first statement there is a single thing wrong. Kumagawa merges two abilities but basic all fiction can't bring things back consequently you are giving a weakening to the character that he shouldn't have.

Yeah, I'm not sure how colour came back, but it demonstrably did. Maybe Ajimu did something?

Still, from its mechanics alone, it doesn't seem to affect anything on a timeline-wide scale. The past isn't retroactively changed, and things can be returned through other means (i.e. Zenkichi getting his eyesight back through Parasite Seeing) without AF automatically erasing it, so it doesn't seem to affect the future other than by a knock-on effect of changing the present.

Regarding the second statement that is regarding the dream world, emukae in fact does not hit najimi using the rafflesia in there.

He doesn't hit her with it, but she uses the ability. At least with the way the translation came out, it sounded like you were saying that no abilities can be used in the dream world.

If the idea's the Ajimu's immune there, that just has no basis, and happens to be unfalsifiable.

You contradict yourself a bit when you talk about alibi block and dimensional travel because you are associating alibi block as abilities and not the fact that najimi transcends dimensions or that she does things like control infinity.

Because it is an ability It's one of her skills. She can trade it away to another character, have it be nullified, have it be resisted, or refrain from using it.

Again, indications that Ajimu transcends dimensions hasn't been provided.

She does have an ability listed in a wall of text that is said to control infinity, but I don't trust these unless they're supported elsewhere, for reasons outlined here.

I understand your point of view but some of the abilities present in his explanations are like that and there is really little to explain, you are told that najimi governs the concepts and I don't think there is much to add about it. Besides how should the creator explain quadrillions of abilities to you if not like this.

A few more sentences would be enough, really. To give us a more concrete idea of how it's used, what it does, and what the limitations are, if any. That could've been done through the guidebooks (where, for these skills, he mostly just added jokes), or like for Medaka/Fukurou; establishing the skills in other scenes throughout the series.

Yes, I insist on an explanation that says that all fiction brings things back by itself, I want a Scan that says exactly that, the one you brought me is just a fusion between two abilities that does not affect all fiction in any way.

I think I may have explained things badly. I don't think that All Fiction brings things back by itself.

As for the dimension of dreams it should definitely be added to the dimensionality of the work.

I don't know what you mean by this, or what it would change.

 

[Rufy1213]

Yeah, I'm not sure how colour came back, but it demonstrably did. Maybe Ajimu did something?

Still, from its mechanics alone, it doesn't seem to affect anything on a timeline-wide scale. The past isn't retroactively changed, and things can be returned through other means (i.e. Zenkichi getting his eyesight back through Parasite Seeing) without AF automatically erasing it, so it doesn't seem to affect the future other than by a knock-on effect of changing the present.

He doesn't hit her with it, but she uses the ability. At least with the way the translation came out, it sounded like you were saying that no abilities can be used in the dream world.

If the idea's the Ajimu's immune there, that just has no basis, and happens to be unfalsifiable.

Because it is an ability It's one of her skills. She can trade it away to another character, have it be nullified, have it be resisted, or refrain from using it.

Again, indications that Ajimu transcends dimensions hasn't been provided.

She does have an ability listed in a wall of text that is said to control infinity, but I don't trust these unless they're supported elsewhere, for reasons outlined here.

A few more sentences would be enough, really. To give us a more concrete idea of how it's used, what it does, and what the limitations are, if any. That could've been done through the guidebooks (where, for these skills, he mostly just added jokes), or like for Medaka/Fukurou; establishing the skills in other scenes throughout the series.

I think I may have explained things badly. I don't think that All Fiction brings things back by itself.

I don't know what you mean by this, or what it would change.

I think I want to open a discussion on Najimi's fourth wall because a lot of my scale is based on this and there is no point in debating about it because I sent you many scans to confirm its existence. It seems really incredible to me a 9-A for Najimi who was hit by the big bang and came out unharmed and I remind you that the big bang created a space-time continuum (feat at least 3-A / 2-C) and here I am not examining any ability that you told me not to take, but the scan that I will link you below. It has existed since before the creation of the universe itself. The fact that Najimi also destroyed a star still puts her on a much higher level than 9-A.

Another nonsense thing you said, why shouldn't I scale the entire universe on Kumagawa's bases. The Knights of the Zodiac do it on the bases of feats that are not theirs many times so why shouldn't I do it here? It would be wrong.

On all fiction then you contradict yourself because if it actually can't bring things back I'm right to say that in reality they can't go back.

As far as the dimension of dreams is concerned it changes because you add a dimension to the entire universe of medaka box not making it move on simple but complex dimensions plus medaka herself states the existence of another universe.

I'll leave you two more scans below that continue to put this reality about najimi in front of you.
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/1366414055740543097/1368229244676604064/Latest25.jpg? ex=68177648&is=681624c8&hm=9d483c5e6a3713d36eec4a90867b78bce075f7068c98fc6fd3aeafd1ee024dbe&

https:// cdn.**********.com/attachments/1366414055740543097/1368229354219376670/Screenshot_20250501-001737.png?ex=68177662&is=681624e2&hm=ae0c44dc3f902f1f11db05fae1ad83dbb76c41c224077e3e1b887a2bcb720b9c&

Yeah, I'm not sure how colour came back, but it demonstrably did. Maybe Ajimu did something?

Still, from its mechanics alone, it doesn't seem to affect anything on a timeline-wide scale. The past isn't retroactively changed, and things can be returned through other means (i.e. Zenkichi getting his eyesight back through Parasite Seeing) without AF automatically erasing it, so it doesn't seem to affect the future other than by a knock-on effect of changing the present.

He doesn't hit her with it, but she uses the ability. At least with the way the translation came out, it sounded like you were saying that no abilities can be used in the dream world.

If the idea's the Ajimu's immune there, that just has no basis, and happens to be unfalsifiable.

Because it is an ability It's one of her skills. She can trade it away to another character, have it be nullified, have it be resisted, or refrain from using it.

Again, indications that Ajimu transcends dimensions hasn't been provided.

She does have an ability listed in a wall of text that is said to control infinity, but I don't trust these unless they're supported elsewhere, for reasons outlined here.

A few more sentences would be enough, really. To give us a more concrete idea of how it's used, what it does, and what the limitations are, if any. That could've been done through the guidebooks (where, for these skills, he mostly just added jokes), or like for Medaka/Fukurou; establishing the skills in other scenes throughout the series.

I think I may have explained things badly. I don't think that All Fiction brings things back by itself.

I don't know what you mean by this, or what it would change.

 

[Agnaa]

It seems really incredible to me a 9-A for Najimi who was hit by the big bang and came out unharmed

Yeah, she was not too long ago put at "possibly 3-A" for that, but we removed it since we don't know how far away she was, making any particular rating kinda weird. We do still indicate that she, at bare minimum, scales massively above the cast where there has been a point of comparison.

and I remind you that the big bang created a space-time continuum (feat at least 3-A / 2-C)

It didn't; we know that space and time existed beforehand. We know that quite a lot of time passed for her, while she was in the empty reality.

The fact that Najimi also destroyed a star still puts her on a much higher level than 9-A.

That feat is taken as too divorced from her actual power, as we saw it done by a recording after she died in a dream world.

Another nonsense thing you said, why shouldn't I scale the entire universe on Kumagawa's bases. The Knights of the Zodiac do it on the bases of feats that are not theirs many times so why shouldn't I do it here? It would be wrong.

No clue what you're referring to here.

On all fiction then you contradict yourself because if it actually can't bring things back I'm right to say that in reality they can't go back.

AF can't bring things it erased back by itself, but other characters and mechanisms can.

As far as the dimension of dreams is concerned it changes because you add a dimension to the entire universe of medaka box not making it move on simple but complex dimensions

It's not that kind of dimension. It's another realm, not another axis.

plus medaka herself states the existence of another universe.

Yep. But that doesn't change anything, as no character scales to the multiverse.

 

[Rufy1213]

To the first point I answer by telling you that in fact you should at least relocate her towards 3-A/low 2-C

To the second point I answered by saying that what you say is wrong because she was simply outside the universe. With the explosion of the big bang at a physical level a universe is generated and therefore a new space time and this is a certainty and a fact.

What does your third point mean? It doesn't make sense you are scaling again through your interpretation, that's what he did and I showed through a Scan of the manga, there is nothing to interpret here, it's what he does, the end there is no beating around the bush.

To the third point I answer by telling you that I am examining your response to my demonstration of Kumagawa's awareness of the fourth wall that I showed you in a previous Scan.

https://cdn.**********.com/attachme...ddacf3de9341fa47dd0591ee4febd9c13699f0185eb7&

To the fourth point about all fiction I answer by saying that only medaka can bring back the things done by all fiction with all fiction because she uses it 100 times better so it makes no sense to take away one of Kumagawa's peculiarities again

Yeah, she was not too long ago put at "possibly 3-A" for that, but we removed it since we don't know how far away she was, making any particular rating kinda weird. We do still indicate that she, at bare minimum, scales massively above the cast where there has been a point of comparison.

It didn't; we know that space and time existed beforehand. We know that quite a lot of time passed for her, while she was in the empty reality.

That feat is taken as too divorced from her actual power, as we saw it done by a recording after she died in a dream world.

No clue what you're referring to here.

AF can't bring things it erased back by itself, but other characters and mechanisms can.

It's not that kind of dimension. It's another realm, not another axis.

Yep. But that doesn't change anything, as no character scales to the multiverse.

 

[Agnaa]

To the second point I answered by saying that what you say is wrong because she was simply outside the universe. With the explosion of the big bang at a physical level a universe is generated and therefore a new space time and this is a certainty and a fact.

If she was outside the universe, then she wouldn't have withstood it, and so wouldn't scale.

What does your third point mean? It doesn't make sense you are scaling again through your interpretation, that's what he did and I showed through a Scan of the manga, there is nothing to interpret here, it's what he does, the end there is no beating around the bush.

It's not what she does. It's what a recording of her in a dream world played after she's dead does. We know absolutely nothing about how that "recording" process. And it can't be something simple; if it was simply replaying the movements she underwent before, then the star would already be destroyed, and so we wouldn't have seen her performing a feat.

To the third point I answer by telling you that I am examining your response to my demonstration of Kumagawa's awareness of the fourth wall that I showed you in a previous Scan.

I more don't understand what you're talking about with "The Knights of the Zodiac".

To the fourth point about all fiction I answer by saying that only medaka can bring back the things done by all fiction with all fiction because she uses it 100 times better so it makes no sense to take away one of Kumagawa's peculiarities again

There is no evidence that Medaka can bring back things done with All Fiction with All Fiction, and she doesn't use abilities 100 times better, iirc she uses them at 120% of their maximum potential.

 

[Ruler_Star_Kuma]

and she doesn't use abilities 100 times better, iirc she uses them at 120% of their maximum potential.

Yes. Anyone who says anything other than 120% better is lying.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

So everyone. I have news for you. I was able to find the Medaka Box Hakoniwa Dictionary portion of the Guidebook, and have uploaded it to Google Drive (it also includes the Picture Book with it), it is a bit scuffed due to the naming of the image files, but we finally have the Hakoniwa Dictionary, at long last.

 

[Agnaa]

I've already started having a look through it.

From a quick check, it looks like the Medaka Box wiki indeed lists all extra comments for the wall of text skills, so there's no more information to grab from there. Although, it does seem like each of these has a general description for that wall of text at the start of them, which may be useful.

However, it seems like the structure of the Dictionary portion is four different sections, either alphabetically or chronologically-sorted, which list important proper nouns in the series and provide brief commentary on them (usually a few sentences long). Some of these are things which we didn't have proper nouns for before; the name for the technique Iihiko used to kill Ajimu with a rubber band, the name for and description of the skill Ajimu used to destroy a star.

I think, given this generally isolated structure, it should be fine for people to get individual segments translated and then implemented onto profiles.

4-C Ajimu via Bang! seems legit.

• Pages 4-49: Name Dictionary (From a quick look, seems to be names & nicknames for each character in the series)
• Pages 51-87: History Dictionary (From a quick look, seems to be every notable release in the series in chronological order, chapters, collaborations, books, etc.)
• Pages 89-118: Term Dictionary (From a quick look, seems to be things like "Abnormal", "GOOD LOSER GOOD LUCK", etc.)
• Pages 120+: Skill Dictionary (Mostly what you'd expect, but does also include things that aren't abnormalities/minuses, like Medaka's animal intimidation, and styles. Looks like this is ordered by chronological appearance, but I'm not 100% certain on that)

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you greatly for helping out to both of you. It would be great to get that guidebook translated one day.

By the way, have any of you read Cipher Academy? And if so what do you think about it, including as a continuation in the development and portrayal of certain archetypes from Medaka Box and Shounen Shoujo?

 

[Agnaa]

I've read Cipher Academy. I thought it was decent, but I thought that both Medaka Box and Shounen Shoujo were incredible, so it's quite a step down in comparison.

Both it and Medaka Box have fairly large casts, so there's some overlap in archetypes, but the key ones are quite different. There isn't anyone with the force of personality like the Yamai Shous, Kumagawa, Medaka, Zenkichi, Ajimu, Iihiko, etc.

It does have a relatively positive message compared to Shounen Shoujo, but my best guess is that you wouldn't get those things you're asking about from it.

The story is about a high school where young codebreakers are trained to be even better. The military undercurrent involved in that as various factions among the students emerge and clash. Those associated with weapons manufacturers trying to propagate war for profit, those using their presence at the school to feed information to other governments, those associated with citizens trying to expose immoral behaviour among those in the military industrial complex, those against war in general trying to reorient the school towards humanitarian aims and the cessation of conflicts.

The chapter-to-chapter events involve a lot of puzzles, decoding things and the like. Throughout its runtime it seems to try to shift up what it's doing somewhat, presumably so it can keep getting serialised, and near the end it rushes things to get to its conclusion.

Hope that gives you enough information to decide whether or not to read it.