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Pages were posted earlier, but boy it's still cloudy days nevertheless. Also I think Anti is just neutral and okay with no particular changes.
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Mechikabura massive Downgrade
- Thread starter Lavtop
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- dragon ball mechikabura
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Easy there. I don't think we need to state it in that manner.Lavtop said:
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It's important noting that Mechikabura didn't manage to reach his peak; he was halted before he could absorb the entire Dragon Ball multiverse. This is why they were able to escape his area of influence (since he hadn't absorbed all existence just yet).
However, he was confirmedly going to devour all the multiverse if they had let him be, and it is made quite clear that Mechikabura fused with the timelines he was absorbing, since Chronoa states that those timelines had to be sealed off together with him in order to defeat him, and, as a result, they could never be restored.
So Mechikabura should be "X speed, Omnipresent in his peak (Absorbed a large portion of the multiverse, and was going to absorb all of it had he not been sealed and stopped)"
However, he was confirmedly going to devour all the multiverse if they had let him be, and it is made quite clear that Mechikabura fused with the timelines he was absorbing, since Chronoa states that those timelines had to be sealed off together with him in order to defeat him, and, as a result, they could never be restored.
So Mechikabura should be "X speed, Omnipresent in his peak (Absorbed a large portion of the multiverse, and was going to absorb all of it had he not been sealed and stopped)"
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- Thread starter
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> Assuming that Mechikabura was physically appearing inside the multiverse he just absorbed into himself, it's obvious that he is manifesting through an 'avatar' body, especially considering he was regenerating based on time, the essence of which had been consumed by him.
What in the world?
Mechikabura started with a 3D body, then he absorbed the black hole, and then the time inside himself His body is the same as the one that he had He was just absorbing time inside That is literally completely invented by you
What in the world?
Mechikabura started with a 3D body, then he absorbed the black hole, and then the time inside himself His body is the same as the one that he had He was just absorbing time inside That is literally completely invented by you
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He absorbed them and got Type 8 or whatever from it, but theirs no evidence to suggest it increased the size of his body and nothing to suggest a essence that became Omnipresent.
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It's not about increasing the size of his body. Stop missing the point.
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Well, 4D existence does usually mean increased size unless you're below universal range.
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No offense but the ungodly amounts of cherrypicking going on in this thread are incredible.
Absorbed numberless timelines, was going to absorb the entire multiverse, couldn't be destroyed without wiping out the timelines he had absorbed, the portion of the multiverse he had consumed had to be sealed to halt him, and couldn't be restored...but still not omnipresent or 4-D.
Absorbed numberless timelines, was going to absorb the entire multiverse, couldn't be destroyed without wiping out the timelines he had absorbed, the portion of the multiverse he had consumed had to be sealed to halt him, and couldn't be restored...but still not omnipresent or 4-D.
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Omnipresence requires something to increase and theirs no evidence that his body, soul, mind, essence, or whatever is increasing to Omnipresent levels and creating a avatar to fight.
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- Thread starter
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You can't be 4D and omnipresent and have an human size, lol it's like saying I'm everywhere in the universe but I'm just as big as a human so I need to travel to go to another point.
He is not even beyond space, since he was just absorbing time INSIDE himself
Why is so difficult to admit that he has just a a 3D body and was absorbing time inside himself to empowering himself?
He is not even beyond space, since he was just absorbing time INSIDE himself
Why is so difficult to admit that he has just a a 3D body and was absorbing time inside himself to empowering himself?
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"Ungodly amounts of nitpicking"
Discussion threads on this site kinda runs on that, ya know
Discussion threads on this site kinda runs on that, ya know
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Can one be omnipresent or nigh-present but also not 4D, though?
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LMAO well fair enough, considering it involves a ubiquitous franchise.KLOL506 said:
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I mean, being 5-D and having human form (or at least, appear to have a 3-D form) aren't incompatible, is perfectly factible; neither is to be untouchable by someone of inferior dimensionality.
So I may be lost a little bit now, but if the Mechikabura that the character fought is a mere embodiment/avatar of his true self, then that do not debunk him from being Nigh-Omnipresent (although, as his true self being that, everyone would expect him to be nigh-omniscient [prescience]).
So I may be lost a little bit now, but if the Mechikabura that the character fought is a mere embodiment/avatar of his true self, then that do not debunk him from being Nigh-Omnipresent (although, as his true self being that, everyone would expect him to be nigh-omniscient [prescience]).
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Reading these new arguments made me change my stance, I support Kep now.Kepekley23 said:
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Again there is no true Mechikaboola
This is Mechikaboola BEFORE absorbing time, so 3D
Then he used the black hole (that is the thing that absorbs time)
He absorbed the black hole and transformed in the final form
So it's the same body, literally the same body with the sphere inside that contain the time absorbed that gave him the power boost and the Regenerationn
now look at the scan I posted in the thread.
There is no Omnipresense mechikabura
No 4D Mechikabura
stop inventing theory or things,
This is Mechikaboola BEFORE absorbing time, so 3D
Then he used the black hole (that is the thing that absorbs time)
He absorbed the black hole and transformed in the final form
So it's the same body, literally the same body with the sphere inside that contain the time absorbed that gave him the power boost and the Regenerationn
now look at the scan I posted in the thread.
There is no Omnipresense mechikabura
No 4D Mechikabura
stop inventing theory or things,
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Their is no evidence of avatars though, their is no statements, no feats, not even a hint of any avatar being involved, this is all 100% made up by Kep with no evidence, just to try and explain how hes supposedly Omnipresent when he has no showing of anything close.
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It's not helpful to continuously assert that there is no evidence when faced with scans.
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- #106
That literally doesn't proves nothingKepekley23 said:
they were inside the black hole that absorbed the time and they saw the time absorbed by the black hole
the demigra pull them off
and they they stomps him and sealed just his body.
how that proves omnipresence? How that proves true Mechikaboola? How that proves 4D?
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Omnipresence has been sourced countless times by now. Mechikabura's essence encompassed all the timelines he was absorbing, and he was about to consume the entire multiverse.
In order to stop Mechikabura, they had to seal all the timelines he had absorbed, proving he was one with them. The only things outside his influence and knowledge were the timelines he had yet to absorb.
Arguing against him being 4-D when whole timelines are just part of his being is nonsense at this point, and arguing against his omnipresence is barely any better.
In order to stop Mechikabura, they had to seal all the timelines he had absorbed, proving he was one with them. The only things outside his influence and knowledge were the timelines he had yet to absorb.
Arguing against him being 4-D when whole timelines are just part of his being is nonsense at this point, and arguing against his omnipresence is barely any better.
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At this point, my stance finishes as indifferent at worst because I believe both sides have made particularly good stances and points, but considering the franchise in question, I can kinda tell which side's winning the debate, anyway.
I personally feel like what much was discussed here in terms of omnipresence and 4D shenanigans in general should be opened up in a new thread, though, since it ended up derailing the topic quite often here.
I personally feel like what much was discussed here in terms of omnipresence and 4D shenanigans in general should be opened up in a new thread, though, since it ended up derailing the topic quite often here.
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> Mechikabura's essence encompassed all the timelines he was absorbing
no evidence, the summaries just said he was just absorbing time, his body his the same he wasn't encompassing anything
>In order to stop Mechikabura, they had to seal all the timelines he had absorbed
no evidence, they just sealed his3D body containing the black hole that absorbed the time
> Arguing against him being 4-D
Why if he is 4D he has the same dimensionality of trunks?
if he has a true form (already debunked) can you post some evidence?
no evidence, the summaries just said he was just absorbing time, his body his the same he wasn't encompassing anything
>In order to stop Mechikabura, they had to seal all the timelines he had absorbed
no evidence, they just sealed his3D body containing the black hole that absorbed the time
> Arguing against him being 4-D
Why if he is 4D he has the same dimensionality of trunks?
if he has a true form (already debunked) can you post some evidence?
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Thanks. At least I can feel somewhat good about myself for once in my life.Elizhaa said:
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Alright
1)
The reason Trunks could harm Mechikabura was because of his Keysword. The Keysword was made sepcifically to harm Demons and it was powered by Chronoa and Toki-Toki with time power. Vegito and co could harm him because he was weakend by the sword. Furthermore, these characters have been stated multiple times to affect time with their power. Vegito has 4-D power. Chronoa has Goku and Vegeta using SSJ4 would affect time. So saying since he was affected by Trunks and Vegito he is 3-D makes no sense.
"no evidence, the summaries just said he was just absorbing time, his body his the same he wasn't encompassing anything "
Did you read the older thread? The OP post makes it seem like you just flied through it and ignored everything.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Mechikabura_absorption.png
"This is history. All the time within Mechikabura"
You can clearly see, inside his body, the time periods he has absorbed. The summary further proves this point, if the translation and the manga page doesn't do enough for you
Next:
https://scontent.ffor16-1.fna.fbcdn...=12f5a6b1cc744cd1eab56268f38304d4&oe=5EBF304C
The entire multiverse was in ruins. They couldn't do anything. Even Chronoa, the god of time, couldn't fix it, because all the time mechikabura absorbed was sealed away along with him. Toki-Toki however, reset everything.
Continiously saying there is no evidence when Kep and others have posted scans time and time again shows you are ignoring everything just to try and get your way.
Edit:
He Absorbed the black hole.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...43534121/Screenshot_20200228-121421_Drive.jpg
The black hole had swollowed tens of millions of years worth of space-time already
1)
The reason Trunks could harm Mechikabura was because of his Keysword. The Keysword was made sepcifically to harm Demons and it was powered by Chronoa and Toki-Toki with time power. Vegito and co could harm him because he was weakend by the sword. Furthermore, these characters have been stated multiple times to affect time with their power. Vegito has 4-D power. Chronoa has Goku and Vegeta using SSJ4 would affect time. So saying since he was affected by Trunks and Vegito he is 3-D makes no sense.
"no evidence, the summaries just said he was just absorbing time, his body his the same he wasn't encompassing anything "
Did you read the older thread? The OP post makes it seem like you just flied through it and ignored everything.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Mechikabura_absorption.png
"This is history. All the time within Mechikabura"
You can clearly see, inside his body, the time periods he has absorbed. The summary further proves this point, if the translation and the manga page doesn't do enough for you
Next:
https://scontent.ffor16-1.fna.fbcdn...=12f5a6b1cc744cd1eab56268f38304d4&oe=5EBF304C
The entire multiverse was in ruins. They couldn't do anything. Even Chronoa, the god of time, couldn't fix it, because all the time mechikabura absorbed was sealed away along with him. Toki-Toki however, reset everything.
Continiously saying there is no evidence when Kep and others have posted scans time and time again shows you are ignoring everything just to try and get your way.
Edit:
He Absorbed the black hole.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...43534121/Screenshot_20200228-121421_Drive.jpg
The black hole had swollowed tens of millions of years worth of space-time already
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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...95211277/Screenshot_20200228-122047_Drive.jpg
Furthermore, the keysword pierced the darkness and weakend mechikabura when they were trapped inside him and allowed them to escape
Furthermore, the keysword pierced the darkness and weakend mechikabura when they were trapped inside him and allowed them to escape
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- Thread starter
- #115
'> The reason Trunks could harm Mechikabura was because of his Keysword. The Keysword was made sepcifically to harm Demons and it was powered by Chronoa and Toki-Toki with time power. Vegito and co could harm him because he was weakend by the sword. Furthermore, these characters have been stated multiple times to affect time with their power. Vegito has 4-D power. Chronoa has Goku and Vegeta using SSJ4 would affect time. So saying since he was affected by Trunks and Vegito he is 3-D makes no sense.'
Literally they have the same dimensionality
I have already proved it
If you can't demonstrate that he has a true form he is 3D since he has the same dimensionality of trunks since his body is the same
'> Did you read the older thread? The OP post makes it seem like you just flied through it and ignored everything. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Mechikabura_absorption.png "This is history. All the time within Mechikabura" You can clearly see, inside his body, the time periods he has absorbed. The summary further proves this point, if the translation and the manga page doesn't do enough for you'
I did, they were watching inside the black hole, and? How that proves anything? The black hole was absorbing time
The body is literally the same. It's undeniable.
'> He Absorbed the black hole. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...43534121/Screenshot_20200228-121421_Drive.jpg The black hole had swollowed tens of millions of years worth of space-time already
'
I will prove once again, that you guys always omit the context intentionally The screen you posted is regarding the arcade, the original source of DBH, proves my point since trunks with the Keysword downgraded his form the the old one proving again he has just a body no true form nor Omnipresence.
The arcade also have an alternative conclusion with a different lore from the manga, but you guys on convenience just put the feats all together creating a mix of cross scaling with invented feats .
Did you get what is the problem? That you are supporting something with feats from another media with different story, since the final is completely different.
this is the link of the dialogue of the arcade If you guys don't believe me
https://docs.google.com/document/u/...soD-VaJSfIJpQUuWaI/mobilebasic#h.ozy69pz6ihnv
actually are separated by universes, universe mission 7 of hearts, and in this case universe mission 12 of Mechikaboola without no proves he was affecting space time beside that universe
what is the problem? That you guys put all toghter, you guys scale one feat of UMX (demigra) to all the characters of other games that are no canon to each other creating an enormous amount of miss information
I just feel weird because I follow heroes since it's started,and seeing people omitting the context just because they want it to be strong it make me fell that I should stop staying in this type of site
Anyways I'm done, as I suspected, the downgrade will not be applied even if I will explain everything and post all the scans, i will just stop commenting and let the staff members decide hopefully, objectively.
Tl;dr Db heroes profile characters are more close to fan Made profile rather than official one
Literally they have the same dimensionality
I have already proved it
If you can't demonstrate that he has a true form he is 3D since he has the same dimensionality of trunks since his body is the same
'> Did you read the older thread? The OP post makes it seem like you just flied through it and ignored everything. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Mechikabura_absorption.png "This is history. All the time within Mechikabura" You can clearly see, inside his body, the time periods he has absorbed. The summary further proves this point, if the translation and the manga page doesn't do enough for you'
I did, they were watching inside the black hole, and? How that proves anything? The black hole was absorbing time
The body is literally the same. It's undeniable.
'> He Absorbed the black hole. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...43534121/Screenshot_20200228-121421_Drive.jpg The black hole had swollowed tens of millions of years worth of space-time already
'
I will prove once again, that you guys always omit the context intentionally The screen you posted is regarding the arcade, the original source of DBH, proves my point since trunks with the Keysword downgraded his form the the old one proving again he has just a body no true form nor Omnipresence.
The arcade also have an alternative conclusion with a different lore from the manga, but you guys on convenience just put the feats all together creating a mix of cross scaling with invented feats .
Did you get what is the problem? That you are supporting something with feats from another media with different story, since the final is completely different.
this is the link of the dialogue of the arcade If you guys don't believe me
https://docs.google.com/document/u/...soD-VaJSfIJpQUuWaI/mobilebasic#h.ozy69pz6ihnv
actually are separated by universes, universe mission 7 of hearts, and in this case universe mission 12 of Mechikaboola without no proves he was affecting space time beside that universe
what is the problem? That you guys put all toghter, you guys scale one feat of UMX (demigra) to all the characters of other games that are no canon to each other creating an enormous amount of miss information
I just feel weird because I follow heroes since it's started,and seeing people omitting the context just because they want it to be strong it make me fell that I should stop staying in this type of site
Anyways I'm done, as I suspected, the downgrade will not be applied even if I will explain everything and post all the scans, i will just stop commenting and let the staff members decide hopefully, objectively.
Tl;dr Db heroes profile characters are more close to fan Made profile rather than official one
ProudLearner
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Lavtop calm down lol.
Anyway, both sides have made good arguments. Although, I disagree with the downgrade for reasons that Kep, Zenkai, and the rest of the squad has pointed out above.
Anyway, both sides have made good arguments. Although, I disagree with the downgrade for reasons that Kep, Zenkai, and the rest of the squad has pointed out above.
Rose_of_Ragnarok
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But isn't that only for lower tiers? If you are at least Low 2-C and you're omnipresent, it would mean that you are at least omnipresent on a 4-D scale.Elizhaa said:
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I don't really know what i should feel on this thread, the ignorance of some people or the antagonization of a franchise (probably due to personal problem such has "this verse can't be that strong! wank!", anyway, let's answer and give my opinion about this case:
>The 3D Body stuff
this is the main (if not only) reason of the thread downgrade, and i honestly think that not only the OP but also other peoples in this thread don't understand what was going on.
If people look attentively those scan, it's not only said that Mechikabura swallowed the world, but also, the events of the timelines are now present inside mechikabura, basically, the world where they fight before Demigra pull them out is indeed the Multiverse but which is now inside him. which make his body Higher Dimentional by default, an exemple, if you absorb the universe inside you, the 4 dimensions are inside you, which make your true body the vessel of the universe, above the 4D of the universe (i don't say he is 5D but indeed 4D).
The main argument is "3D people can hit him" but it ignore the fact that Mechi has a physical body inside the one who absorbed the Multiverse, to quote what Kep already said:
You have the proof that the event was literally inside him where exist all of the History, and make his true body above the Multiverse's Dimensionality (in the way you are throught your own body, the cells are Mechikabura and the antigen are Trunks and co before Demigra pull them out, it isn't complicated.
But the problem i can see in the Omnipresent problem is the fact that when they pulled out of the Multiverse inside Mechi, they fought him with his 3D body
Also, these statements are supposed to prove that the body inside the dark void is his real, but don't really prove something, Trunks'sword is created to literally full counter Mechikabura, according to a scan, the sword created a path outside of the Mechi Multiverse to fought him outside, and tha sword has been able to kill him and Tokitoki bring back the Multiverse back without destroying it.
>Mechikabura is 3D
This one is pretty fast to answer, basically:
That all i wanted to say, i am indeed against tha downgrade, even if i think we should make a thread about how to treat Mechi's omnipresence and the application, i think we need more context of how he showed this ablity.
>The 3D Body stuff
this is the main (if not only) reason of the thread downgrade, and i honestly think that not only the OP but also other peoples in this thread don't understand what was going on.
If people look attentively those scan, it's not only said that Mechikabura swallowed the world, but also, the events of the timelines are now present inside mechikabura, basically, the world where they fight before Demigra pull them out is indeed the Multiverse but which is now inside him. which make his body Higher Dimentional by default, an exemple, if you absorb the universe inside you, the 4 dimensions are inside you, which make your true body the vessel of the universe, above the 4D of the universe (i don't say he is 5D but indeed 4D).
The main argument is "3D people can hit him" but it ignore the fact that Mechi has a physical body inside the one who absorbed the Multiverse, to quote what Kep already said:
You have the proof that the event was literally inside him where exist all of the History, and make his true body above the Multiverse's Dimensionality (in the way you are throught your own body, the cells are Mechikabura and the antigen are Trunks and co before Demigra pull them out, it isn't complicated.
But the problem i can see in the Omnipresent problem is the fact that when they pulled out of the Multiverse inside Mechi, they fought him with his 3D body
Also, these statements are supposed to prove that the body inside the dark void is his real, but don't really prove something, Trunks'sword is created to literally full counter Mechikabura, according to a scan, the sword created a path outside of the Mechi Multiverse to fought him outside, and tha sword has been able to kill him and Tokitoki bring back the Multiverse back without destroying it.
>Mechikabura is 3D
This one is pretty fast to answer, basically:
- He is an Higher D at the viewpoint of the characters from History (since history is inside him)
- He is 3D at the viewpoint of characters Outside of History
That all i wanted to say, i am indeed against tha downgrade, even if i think we should make a thread about how to treat Mechi's omnipresence and the application, i think we need more context of how he showed this ablity.
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