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Mcu what if…? Crt rough draft

chosen said:
Uh correct me but isn't the mirror dimension something created by the sourcers?
If so doubt it is counts as part of The universe but the rest would be good
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No the mirror dimension isn't created by sorcerer's it exist on it's own mirroring reality
 
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Coolboy6 said:
Seems like everything relating to the upgrades from what if are going well. Hopefully the grievous mod doesn’t ruin everything.
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Tbf grievous seemly just plays the devil's advocate for upgrades that affect popular verses (At least ones that he/she/they are somewhat knowledgeable about), so don't let it bother you too much.
 
ThanatosX said:
I finished the final checks and created the blog. As already said before, english isn't my first language and this is my first time structuring a revision so I apologise if it seems bad compared to other revisions, but I think it can be used as a starting point to discuss if everyone agrees with the proposed ratings or not.
I made it into a blog so that everyone can check it and fix it if it's badly made.
You can find it here.
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Well done!!!
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
Hulk was getting stomped by Thor when he was in his awakened state. We don't scale video game minibosses to the main protagonist because they survived a handful of hits. Hulk has no reason to scale to thor.
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Meh i Think that was cuz he used to be Ragnarok Thor tier at most
Since he only survived 2 bloodlusted hits from Ragnarok Thor
Also pretty sure some verse pages do scaling liek taht unironically (though there was anyway pointed out some stuff for Ragnarok hulk scaling to Bifrost in the New draft revision)
 
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
Iirc Qwadsef said it wouldn’t be applicable given he absorbed it after it already went off
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Eh, the mftl+ attack speed should probably scale to all his attack not just the galaxy destroying one and since Strange plus the other members reacted to Ultron attack, Strange even fought his full powered 6 infinity stones form, then I think it's fair for them to also get mftl+ speed.
 
Crimson_Shadow101, I saw you commented on the blog regarding the scaling of the Stones but for some reasons I am unable to reply to you there, so I will just write my reply here.

You asked: "Why do the main timeline stones scale to Ultron's if Ultron explicitly stated each universes' stones are unique?"

The answer is in the blog. The Stones are Universal costants, they are different because they are the incarnation of the Singularity that formed the Universe they are from but this doesn't mean that their power is different from each other.
On top of this, as already pointed out in the blog, the Nexus Event that caused the creation of Infinite Ultron's timeline happened during the events of Age of Ultron, meaning that there is no reason to believe that their power is superior in any way than the Stones that we know.
This was discussed here and many users, including staff members, agree with this scaling.
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
And no explanation to the stone destroyer not working?
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Because the Stone are incarnations of the Singularity that created the Universe that they are from. It's the same principle as to why the Stones doesn't technically work outside their original Universe, and for the same reason something that isn't from their same Universe doesn't work on them.

Colonel_Krukov said:
Fyi, I disagree with having characters like Captain Britain, Party Thor etc. at Low 2-C (Or whatever we rate the higher tiers at).

It comes from Strange which is outside help.
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I agree, it's Strange protective spell that made them able to hurt Ultron. Even Ultron himself basically confirms it.
 
ThanatosX said:
Because the Stone are incarnations of the Singularity that created the Universe that they are from. It's the same principle as to why the Stones doesn't technically work outside their original Universe, and for the same reason something that isn't from their same Universe doesn't work on them.


I agree, it's Strange protective spell that made them able to hurt Ultron. Even Ultron himself basically confirms it.
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We don't know how exactly the machine works either. We'd probably get more details from the episode.
 
ThanatosX said:
Because the Stone are incarnations of the incarnation of the Singularity that created the Universe that they are fron.
Click to expand...
You still haven't stated why exactly they don't differ in power. All you said is that the stones are a universal constant and that they're different because they're the incarnation of the singularity that created their own universe (a contradiction btw as you said they're a constant but then proceeded to state they're different) and didn't say anything further.
ThanatosX said:
It's the same principle as to why the Stones doesn't technically work outside their original Universe, and for the same reason something that isn't from their same Universe doesn't work on them.
Click to expand...
They actually do work outside of their own universe. That's what ultron was doing for a majority of the last 2 what if episodes.
 
ThanatosX said:
Why do the main timeline stones scale to Ultron's if Ultron explicitly stated each universes' stones are unique
Click to expand...
They aren't considered unique in terms of power or else doctor strange can't counter Ultrons time slow with his own infinity stone. These are different universe's so the composition and signature of the stones aren't going to be the same which makes up their uniqueness. As WoG even said about Ultron with his stones they said "same universe being" so it has nothing to do with the power of stones themselves but moreso just where the stones come from
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
The lack of details on the machine don't hold that much weight considering neither Ultron nor Gamora expressed doubts in its success, both concluding that it didn't work BECAUSE the stones are different.
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Also it not working is slightly explained with the unique statement but also the Watcher also literally says the crusher wasn't going to work from the start after they stopped the threat when he was talking to Strange
 
Dalesean027 said:
They aren't considered unique in terms of power or else doctor strange can't counter Ultrons time slow with his own infinity stone. These are different universe's so the composition and signature of the stones aren't going to be the same which makes up their uniqueness. As WoG even said about Ultron with his stones they said "same universe being" so it has nothing to do with the powe of stones themselves but moreso just where the stones come from
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Strange's stone was corrupted. I fail to see how the WoG about Ultron is relevant here. I still have yet to see a direct reason stating why the stones would be different in everything except for strength.
 
Dalesean027 said:
They aren't considered unique in terms of power or else doctor strange can't counter Ultrons time slow with his own infinity stone. These are different universe's so the composition and signature of the stones aren't going to be the same which makes up their uniqueness. As WoG even said about Ultron with his stones they said "same universe being" so it has nothing to do with the power of stones themselves but moreso just where the stones come from
Click to expand...
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
... because Ultron's stones are from a different universe.
Click to expand...


Also we saw that the stones are even more durable than Thanos and they have no real durability or AP anti-feats in the main timeline either. Wanda destroyed the stone because it was exposed to something of a similar energy signature(not raw power). And other than that the stones were used to destroy themselves Soo that's definitely not an anti-feat
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
Strange's stone was corrupted
Click to expand...
While that's true we also don't know how that actually affected the stone aside from a color change that isn't even present anymore in the finale and it still counters a the other stones and is comparable to Ultrons it'd honestly be more headcanon assuming the stones aren't comparable versus what we've been shown. And WoG is a factor since we know that Thanos with his stones could have beaten Ultron in this universe but lost because he was cocky and didn't know what to expect when he went in WoG states this.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Wasn't Thor explicitly trying to hold back against Hulk. Thor saw Hulk as his friend in rarnarok and was trying to make friends with him. Plus, Hulk is already vaguely stronger than Base Thor as we see in Avengers 1
Click to expand...
When he awakened his powers he seemed to be bloodlusted

3:30
Pretty sure the reason grandmaster stopped the match was for hulk to not be killed as well
 
Dalesean027 said:
While that's true we also don't know how that actually affected the stone aside from a color change that isn't even present anymore in the finale and it still counters a the other stones and is comparable to Ultrons it'd honestly be more headcanon assuming the stones aren't comparable versus what we've been shown. And WoG is a factor since we know that Thanos with his stones could have beaten Ultron in this universe but lost because he was cocky and didn't know what to expect when he went in WoG states this.
Click to expand...
What relevance does thanos being capable of defeating Ultron in that quick encounter before Ultron even had the stones aside from the Mind Stone?
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
You still haven't stated why exactly they don't differ in power.
Click to expand...
Because there is no reason to specify that they don't differ in power. The Nexus Event that generated the Infinite Ultron's timeline happened during Age of Ultron, this means that both sets of Stones were formed in the same way, expirienced the same things and were identical up until that point.
The main difference, which is why the Machine didn't worked, is that the Universes are incarnations of different Singularities that created different Universes, which is what makes them unique from each other.
Instead, you didn't brought up why we should believe that a set of Stones that was created in the same way than another and expirienced the same things should be notably weaker than an identical set, considering that even the Stones that we know were stated to be able to shread the Universe down to its last atom, a 3-A feat by itself.

Crimson_Shadow101 said:
All you said is that the stones are a universal constant and that they're different because they're the incarnation of the singularity that created their own universe (a contradiction btw as you said they're a constant but then proceeded to state they're different) and didn't say anything further.
Click to expand...
Yes, they are Universal costants because they are the basis of the formation of the single Universes they are connected to. All the Timeline started from them, which means that they are constants of the Universes, and this is proven by the explanation of the Ancient One.

Now I really need to go to sleep, so if you have any further doubt I suggest you to bring this up in the actual CRT, or maybe some else will be able to answer your doubts. I just want to say that all of this was already discussed and agreed by many users, so I inserted that part because there was already a previous discussion.
 
ThanatosX said:
Because there is no reason to specify that they don't differ in power. The Nexus Event that generated the Infinite Ultron's timeline happened during Age of Ultron, this means that both sets of Stones were formed in the same way, expirienced the same things and were identical up until that point.
The main difference, which is why the Machine didn't worked, is that the Universes are incarnations of different Singularities that created different Universes, which is what makes them unique from each other.
Instead, you didn't brought up why we should believe that a set of Stones that was created in the same way than another and expirienced the same things should be notably weaker than an identical set, considering that even the Stones that we know were stated to be able to shread the Universe down to its last atom, a 3-A feat by itself.


Yes, they are Universal costants because they are the basis of the formation of the single Universes they are connected to. All the Timeline started from them, which means that they are constants of the Universes, and this is proven by the explanation of the Ancient One.

Now I really need to go to sleep, so if you have any further doubt I suggest you to bring this up in the actual CRT, or maybe some else will be able to answer your doubts. I just want to say that all of this was already discussed and agreed by many users, so I inserted that part because there was already a previous discussion.
Click to expand...
Glad you said it I was trying to but this is worded I think much better also goodnight
 
ThanatosX said:
Because there is no reason to specify that they don't differ in power. The Nexus Event that generated the Infinite Ultron's timeline happened during Age of Ultron, this means that both sets of Stones were formed in the same way, expirienced the same things and were identical up until that point.
The main difference, which is why the Machine didn't worked, is that the Universes are incarnations of different Singularities that created different Universes, which is what makes them unique from each other.
Instead, you didn't brought up why we should believe that a set of Stones that was created in the same way than another and expirienced the same things should be notably weaker than an identical set, considering that even the Stones that we know were stated to be able to shread the Universe down to its last atom, a 3-A feat by itself.
Click to expand...
ThanatosX said:
Yes, they are Universal costants because they are the basis of the formation of the single Universes they are connected to. All the Timeline started from them, which means that they are constants of the Universes, and this is proven by the explanation of the Ancient One.
Click to expand...
Yet, according to you, when a branch occurs, their structure and signature changes but not their power. You're saying the stones are different because they're representative of the moment that created the alternate timeline, but they're also somehow not different because they were formed at the start of the first timeline. It really just seems like it's dancing around the fact that the stones are different by nature, trying to simultaneously accept that they're different but somehow still the same power wise.

The 3-A statement already has its own issues, with them already being detailed on Thanos' profile. 3-A and Low 2-C is also a rather big jump in power.
ThanatosX said:
Now I really need to go to sleep, so if you have any further doubt I suggest you to bring this up in the actual CRT, or maybe some else will be able to answer your doubts. I just want to say that all of this was already discussed and agreed by many users, so I inserted that part because there was already a previous discussion.
Click to expand...
I'm kinda tired of arguing over this anyways. I feel like this is just logic leaping around the fact that the stones are different by nature, to try and argue that the power of the stones is somehow unaffected while everything else is. I don't have any interest in trying to change the minds of multiple people when they seem dead set in trigger-happy cross universe scaling like this; I'm already arguing with 3 people at once. I honestly think we're being too liberal with alternate universe scaling with reasoning that feels shaky to me. I'll just see what staff not named Colonel or Eficiente have to say.
 
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