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I heard that Captain Carter being the hero of WW2 actually caused the feminist movement to happen faster in her timeline, which would be a cool thing to mention during an episode but unfortunately it was just a writer statement
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MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Valiant_Abyss
- Start date
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Its their reasoning as to why Wasp is on The Avengers
Basically because Peggy Carter doesn't lead S.H.I.E.L.D its up in the control of Bucky and Howard and then later on Howard and Janet. Because of this, the rise of female empowerment has a greater push which allows Hope to take over her mother mantle much faster than the original timeline
In other words, there's no point in a new Ant-Man existing, thus Hank Pym will probably never have to rely on Scott. The feminist movement destroyed Scott's life, bro is still divorced and unemployed in that timeline (Can't even get a job a Baskin-Robbins)
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I like Captain Carter, but Marvel made her into another Rey. It’s goddamn dreadful.
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Mary sue you mean?
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Yeah.
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I do hope we get to see the Guardians of the Multiverse in the future, maybe with a few new members (Hell, you can do them in live action even)
Captain Carter (They're pushing the **** out of this character and Hayley Atwell played her in live action already)
Star Lord/T'Challa (Get him a new voice actor and if they do him live action they can keep his role small where he never takes off his mask, pretty easy solution though they might end up retiring him entirely)
Black Panther/Killmonger (He's back in action and probably back in his universe where everyone wants him dead... I wonder if the Guardians would even let him in. Anyways, people love Michael B Jordan, so why not)
Party Thor (He's a goof ball, not much to say other than he's pretty do able)
Strange Supreme (He's both dead and had his character ruined)
Thanos Killer Gamora (Zoe Saldana said she was done playing the character and that's fine honestly, she doesn't voice her in What If...? and recasting is fine)
Sakaar Iron Man (Should've been on the Guardians in the first place, Robert Downey jr. probably isn't returning but you can just keep him in that cool as **** armour and let Mick Wingert do the voice. Really want to see what else this Tony can do when introduced to space tech)
Survivor Natasha (Is a really cool character, the use of equipment from her fallen friends is pretty neat. Scarlett Johansson is done playing the character though, wonder if they'll do a recast. She wasn't even originally apart of the team and is currently living a comfortable life in the Fallen Avengers Universe)
Super Nova Nebula (Nebula is hot as ****, I want to see more of her. Her design is pretty cool with the mixture of Nova Corpse uniform plus ravager/Yondu specifically apparel. Karen Gillan is probably up for still playing the character)
Celestial Star Lord (Probably going to need a new actor for him Luke Klein probably has out grown the role, Wyatt Oleff. All the Avengers members are worth considering, but Peter is the most notable due him still having his celestial powers)
The Freak (Our team needs a Hulk, so why not get Happy Hogan to do it. CGI Jon Favreau might be a bit horrifying though)
Kahhori (Best girl, would be cool to see her live action. Probably one of the most powerful character see have, would be nice to see her interact with other character besides Captain Carter)
Nine Realms Liberator Hela (Also a powerhouse, only character to get off their ass a stop Thanos. Cate Blanche is cool, wouldn't mind seeing her charge into battle in that white armour while riding Fenris)
Liberator Wenwu (Bring her boyfriend along, why not. Tony Leung needs to return to this role, we was great. Wenwu is no doubt the bottom in this relationship, I wonder what their kids are like)
Wanda-Merlin (I'm not adding another Super Soldier to the team and pushing more Steve and Peggy. We need another powerful magic user after our last one was killed, I guess Hela and Kahhori can fill the role but lets have a heroic Scarlet Witch instead. Elizabeth Olsen wants to return, so why not)
Captain Carter (They're pushing the **** out of this character and Hayley Atwell played her in live action already)
Star Lord/T'Challa (Get him a new voice actor and if they do him live action they can keep his role small where he never takes off his mask, pretty easy solution though they might end up retiring him entirely)
Black Panther/Killmonger (He's back in action and probably back in his universe where everyone wants him dead... I wonder if the Guardians would even let him in. Anyways, people love Michael B Jordan, so why not)
Party Thor (He's a goof ball, not much to say other than he's pretty do able)
Strange Supreme (He's both dead and had his character ruined)
Thanos Killer Gamora (Zoe Saldana said she was done playing the character and that's fine honestly, she doesn't voice her in What If...? and recasting is fine)
Sakaar Iron Man (Should've been on the Guardians in the first place, Robert Downey jr. probably isn't returning but you can just keep him in that cool as **** armour and let Mick Wingert do the voice. Really want to see what else this Tony can do when introduced to space tech)
Survivor Natasha (Is a really cool character, the use of equipment from her fallen friends is pretty neat. Scarlett Johansson is done playing the character though, wonder if they'll do a recast. She wasn't even originally apart of the team and is currently living a comfortable life in the Fallen Avengers Universe)
Super Nova Nebula (Nebula is hot as ****, I want to see more of her. Her design is pretty cool with the mixture of Nova Corpse uniform plus ravager/Yondu specifically apparel. Karen Gillan is probably up for still playing the character)
Celestial Star Lord (Probably going to need a new actor for him Luke Klein probably has out grown the role, Wyatt Oleff. All the Avengers members are worth considering, but Peter is the most notable due him still having his celestial powers)
The Freak (Our team needs a Hulk, so why not get Happy Hogan to do it. CGI Jon Favreau might be a bit horrifying though)
Kahhori (Best girl, would be cool to see her live action. Probably one of the most powerful character see have, would be nice to see her interact with other character besides Captain Carter)
Nine Realms Liberator Hela (Also a powerhouse, only character to get off their ass a stop Thanos. Cate Blanche is cool, wouldn't mind seeing her charge into battle in that white armour while riding Fenris)
Liberator Wenwu (Bring her boyfriend along, why not. Tony Leung needs to return to this role, we was great. Wenwu is no doubt the bottom in this relationship, I wonder what their kids are like)
Wanda-Merlin (I'm not adding another Super Soldier to the team and pushing more Steve and Peggy. We need another powerful magic user after our last one was killed, I guess Hela and Kahhori can fill the role but lets have a heroic Scarlet Witch instead. Elizabeth Olsen wants to return, so why not)
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Funny how you made that comparison considering both only won their final battles thanks to a male lead (that was corrupted by darkness) sacrificing himself (Strange and Kylo) while also getting amps from other characters (Marvel custom mode and the Force ghosts of past Jedi). Also both are products of the Mouse lol!
Proof it doesn't matter if you gain power from genetics, experimentation or an accident, it can be written poorly or well depending on the context.
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Btw, I like how everyone forgot about the Zombies Universe Spider-Man, lol.
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i'd be completely fine with Freak looking scary tbh
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Because Sony and the Mouse can't decide the details of the timetable of who gets custody over Peter plus it was evident the show wanted to push Wanda as the reoccurring Zombie universe rep for some reason.
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"Fans" are gonna say it's because they're are rebranding into the M "She" U
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I mean, he wasn't even in the Guardians of the Multiverse episode and doesn't have much notable to him besides him having the Cloak of Levitation. Even then he didn't get to keep it at the end since Scott kept it. If anything it felt like Banner was the main character in that episode and Wanda's Zombie is what gets pushed as its representative (I feel like Zombie Thanos with an almost complete Infinity Gauntlet would be cool). Zombie Hunter Spider-Man is almost as unnotable was King Killmonger, but at least Killmonger bring something interesting to the team dynamic alongside the character having never been on a superhero team.
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Well, they failed damn terribly because Wanda didn't get shit screen time after all. And zombie Wanda was a villain.
I disagree. Spider-Man tried his best to ensure the survival of his friends as well as to save the world. Hulk also played a role in it, though Spider-Man had most of the spotlight and the other main characters were practically dead. The fact that any of the heroes of the zombie universe didn't play a single damn part in the Guardians of the Multiverse makes it a sin. Not to mention the fact that they had a Gamora variant at the time which no one knew about.
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Her episodes was supposed to be in season 1, got pushed to season 2 (Though Tony is the main character)
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Wanda Zombie has necromancy to control corpses or zombies and is ready for her new ability
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Another Marvel sin. The industry just ******* sucks ass.
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Oh, don't get me STARTED on those people...
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In the midst of all the talk about Captain Carter, I find this a bit funnier in hindsight:
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It’s true base carter could hurt demon supreme strange 1 strike and Wanda evaporates
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Strange Supreme best character, there's no debate. And Carter went from a good character to a Rey-like absurdityMarvel What If... season 2 in a nutshell:
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Funny how she was an actual good character last seasonIn the midst of all the talk about Captain Carter, I find this a bit funnier in hindsight:
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I think I'm gonna take a HEAVY dose of copium and just imagine that S1 and S2 Strange Supreme characters are different variants and S1 is still there, watching over Zola & Killmonger, at peace with himself and after undergoing redemption. I REFUSE that ending for that character
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As the What If? director once stated:
"Well, I think Thanos is pretty badass on his own. And I think it's important for everyone to remember that it's infinite possibilities. So yes, there are universes where Thanos maybe didn't get his act together and isn't quite as badass as we thought. Or he was on the verge and was defeated in a different way. I'm sure there's a universe where Thor aimed for the head."
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Thanos is a literal joke at this point.
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That's a shame. Bro went from being the most powerful being in the universe to just a small inconvenience.
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Don’t worry guys soon the king will reclaim his title and take on all the heroes
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Main universe Thanos was a pretty consistent threat who did technically succeed at his goal for five years, all these multiverse variants just seem to be overall less competent versions.
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I need mods to approve my CRT
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I figured it out he talking about This one
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Nah man thanos actually beat hela wenwu and her entire army by himself we just didn’t see it
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Plus his death in MoM flashback.
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I love how all the Americas are together, even though Carter is bri'ish and America has nothing to do with Captain America
Don’t worry guys soon the king will reclaim his title and take on all the heroes
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Yeah i'm going with that, Season 2 Strange Supreme just pretended to be the Season 1 Supreme to manipulate Carter easier
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bro it’s been ages and a mod hasn’t even looked I legit think they’ve been dusted out of the existence
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It's been year now. I can't believe it's been a year and there aren't any mods go to looked my CRT
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It's been two days. Patience.
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Most people seem to like Kahhori's character. Guess I'll be the contrarian then...
I liked the concept, visual pallet, and power set of her. But what I didn't like is how her character was written.
See, I understand all the origin stories involving McGuffins and the “Chosen One” trope.
It's just that Kahhori suddenly became the most powerful amongst her brethren without any apparent progression or explanation, despite the fact that all of them were powered by the same “unmitigated Space Stone energy”.
And then she starts preaching to her brethren on how they aren't brave if they aren't ready to fight for their people, instantly becoming their leader.
Then she appears in the last episode and defeats an established character who many like, i.e. Zombie Wanda, easily.
She goes on to outsmart Infinity Killmonger with ALL the Infinity Stones (which doesn't make sense since the last time we saw him, he had only 5).
She could somehow also control Wenwu’s 10 Rings without air manipulation powers, when we just saw Hela not being able to do so in the last episode.
These are all tried and tested beats of a “strong female character”. Very clique and, to be honest, cringe. They did the same with Captain Marvel, another Space Stone powered mutant. We need strong characters that are female. Why can't the current MCU writers understand that?
Talking about the finale itself, I know the writers will try to justify it by saying their usual “it's the multiverse, anything can happen”, but honestly at this point, that's just an excuse for their lazy writing plagued with inconsistencies, plot holes, and PIS....
I really liked child Star Lord, White Hela (apparently more powerful than prime Odin), 1602’s Witch Wanda, and Sakaar’s Iron Man. Idk why they didn't use them them in the finale and assemble a team like they did in What If… S1E9.
Instead, they just had 2 characters (one of which was totally new, badly written as I explained above, and was never asked for) that got a bunch of buffs they had no experience and/or power using to defeat Demon Strange, a fan favourite.
They ruined his character arc from S1 by making him forcibly go through it all over again, similar to Wanda from Multiverse of Midness. It's also hilariously frustrating how literally NONE of the overpowered universe killers were able to just fly away from the forge.
They just kept falling down and flying up at Demon Strange's and Kahhori's whim respectively. Instead of just using their powers to fly away, they throw their weapons to aid Kahhori and Captain Carter who were somehow able to operate them perfectly without any experience with them.
Not to mention, Kahhori can somehow send ALL of the universe killers to their homes, even though it's obvious that she neither knows about nor has been to all of their home worlds. Captain Carter can somehow destroy all of the pocket dimensions that Demon Strange created to contain the universe killers with just a shield throw.
Infinity Killmonger somehow had all the 6 Infinity Stones on him even though the last time we saw him in What If... S1E9, he only had 5 as Infinity Ultron still had the Mind Stone embedded on his forehead.
Captain Carter could somehow conjure necroswords from Hela's helmet, when it was established in Thor: Ragnarok that Hela conjures necroswords innately without sporting her helmet. Just 2 episodes back in the same show, when Hela realises that she doesn't have her helmet anymore, she still tries to conjure the necroswords innately (though she fails as Odin took away her innate powers along with enchanting her helmet, and made her a regular Asgardian like Thor in Thor 1).
Demon Strange somehow couldn't capture Kahorri despite the fact that he captured much more powerful universe killers on his own (such as Infinity Ultron, Infinity Killmonger, and that Hulk-Thor-Valkyrie amalgamation to name a few).
He also somehow couldn't think of just taking off the protection spell that allowed Carter to block his attacks with her shield and hold the Infinity Stones bare-handedly (which still doesn't make sense as it's well-established that the Time Stone can't be held physically). And lastly...
Why are they trying to push Peggy with a plot armour so thick that it rivals the best (or worst?) of Mary Sues? Like, they had zero focus on the other Guardians of the Multiverse from S1E9 except for Gamora (who had no role in any of the episodes other than her own, and that particular episode was supposed to be in S1 anyway).
I liked the concept, visual pallet, and power set of her. But what I didn't like is how her character was written.
See, I understand all the origin stories involving McGuffins and the “Chosen One” trope.
It's just that Kahhori suddenly became the most powerful amongst her brethren without any apparent progression or explanation, despite the fact that all of them were powered by the same “unmitigated Space Stone energy”.
And then she starts preaching to her brethren on how they aren't brave if they aren't ready to fight for their people, instantly becoming their leader.
Then she appears in the last episode and defeats an established character who many like, i.e. Zombie Wanda, easily.
She goes on to outsmart Infinity Killmonger with ALL the Infinity Stones (which doesn't make sense since the last time we saw him, he had only 5).
She could somehow also control Wenwu’s 10 Rings without air manipulation powers, when we just saw Hela not being able to do so in the last episode.
These are all tried and tested beats of a “strong female character”. Very clique and, to be honest, cringe. They did the same with Captain Marvel, another Space Stone powered mutant. We need strong characters that are female. Why can't the current MCU writers understand that?
Talking about the finale itself, I know the writers will try to justify it by saying their usual “it's the multiverse, anything can happen”, but honestly at this point, that's just an excuse for their lazy writing plagued with inconsistencies, plot holes, and PIS....
I really liked child Star Lord, White Hela (apparently more powerful than prime Odin), 1602’s Witch Wanda, and Sakaar’s Iron Man. Idk why they didn't use them them in the finale and assemble a team like they did in What If… S1E9.
Instead, they just had 2 characters (one of which was totally new, badly written as I explained above, and was never asked for) that got a bunch of buffs they had no experience and/or power using to defeat Demon Strange, a fan favourite.
They ruined his character arc from S1 by making him forcibly go through it all over again, similar to Wanda from Multiverse of Midness. It's also hilariously frustrating how literally NONE of the overpowered universe killers were able to just fly away from the forge.
They just kept falling down and flying up at Demon Strange's and Kahhori's whim respectively. Instead of just using their powers to fly away, they throw their weapons to aid Kahhori and Captain Carter who were somehow able to operate them perfectly without any experience with them.
Not to mention, Kahhori can somehow send ALL of the universe killers to their homes, even though it's obvious that she neither knows about nor has been to all of their home worlds. Captain Carter can somehow destroy all of the pocket dimensions that Demon Strange created to contain the universe killers with just a shield throw.
Infinity Killmonger somehow had all the 6 Infinity Stones on him even though the last time we saw him in What If... S1E9, he only had 5 as Infinity Ultron still had the Mind Stone embedded on his forehead.
Captain Carter could somehow conjure necroswords from Hela's helmet, when it was established in Thor: Ragnarok that Hela conjures necroswords innately without sporting her helmet. Just 2 episodes back in the same show, when Hela realises that she doesn't have her helmet anymore, she still tries to conjure the necroswords innately (though she fails as Odin took away her innate powers along with enchanting her helmet, and made her a regular Asgardian like Thor in Thor 1).
Demon Strange somehow couldn't capture Kahorri despite the fact that he captured much more powerful universe killers on his own (such as Infinity Ultron, Infinity Killmonger, and that Hulk-Thor-Valkyrie amalgamation to name a few).
He also somehow couldn't think of just taking off the protection spell that allowed Carter to block his attacks with her shield and hold the Infinity Stones bare-handedly (which still doesn't make sense as it's well-established that the Time Stone can't be held physically). And lastly...
Why are they trying to push Peggy with a plot armour so thick that it rivals the best (or worst?) of Mary Sues? Like, they had zero focus on the other Guardians of the Multiverse from S1E9 except for Gamora (who had no role in any of the episodes other than her own, and that particular episode was supposed to be in S1 anyway).
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