MCU Phase 5 General Discussion Thread

[Jinx666]

Bruh I forgot about that, plus the MCU being kind of on a hiatus rn at least until December with What if? I think

We just had Agatha All Along

Idk why MCU is so dry though, its not like its pretty much one of the biggest casual verses we have

 

[ArkhamDC06]

We just had Agatha All Along

Idk why MCU is so dry though, its not like its pretty much one of the biggest casual verses we have

Probably because people are just tired to have tons of MCU related stuff in a single year and not all of them have been successes lately. People are just starting to get sick of the Marvel formula and mid-tier products at best. Feige and co realized that and so they decided to slow down.

 

[Dinobot1996]

Producer Nate Moore apparently considers the Talokanil to be "sort of Super-Soldier level". Make of that what you will:

I'm curious about the strength of the Atlanteans on the bridge.

MOORE: Yes.

Because they basically get their ass kicked.

MOORE: Yeah.

Fatal blows, and they get up.

MOORE: Yeah.

How do you describe their powers?

MOORE: Yeah, we've talked a lot about that. “Are they sort of Super-Soldier-esque?” I'm a bit of a nerd. So, I used to play the Marvel Heroes role-playing game, and you're like, "Wait, do they have body armor? Do they have a 10?”

But no, we see them as sort of Super-Soldier level, partially because they live under the water. So, they're a bit tougher, their skin's a bit tougher, their bones probably are lighter, but their muscle density is increased. So, they are stronger than humans, certainly, and are able to withstand Okoye’s otherwise-killing strokes, much to her frustration, which I think makes them incredibly formidable. So, if and when we see them again, I think whoever comes across them might be in some trouble.

 

[RoTt35]

Thor (Weakened Key) vs Magneto could be a good match?

 

[Dinobot1996]

Thor (Weakened Key) vs Magneto could be a good match?

I think both characters have plausible winning conditions. 6-C Thor has a decent AP advantage and could potentially one shot if Magneto is caught off guard or underestimates Thor, but I could see Magneto taking the majority through the versatility of his powers, especially if his magnetic fields are able to neutralize Thor's weather and lightning manipulation like they could with Storm.

 

[RoTt35]

Here's the match

 

[Reyne]

I just realized something about the Captain Marve feat.

With our sun, it's far enough away from Earth that it takes several minutes for the light from it to reach us. Now, not long after Carol restarted Hala's sun, the Kree can see that their sun can been restarted. This begs the question: how far is Hala from it's sun, and what does this mean?

I've had a problem with the scene before when it concerns Carol's light relative to the star, as it looks to be not very big and possibly smaller than Nidavellir's star, but that could be explained away as Carol is supposed to be at her brightest in that scene.

 

[Reyne]

Same as the Zeus scene where he shows up at the hospital and displays more power with Thunderbolt.



SERIOUSLY, WHY DID THEY CUT THAT SCENE AGAIN?!

Or Carol going to punch that moon.

 

[Naeem0304]

Hey y'all, I got some CRT suggestions that I wanted to run through here:

On this MCU Guidebook (link) at page 68 it states the following:

The Destroyer construct was one of Asgard's most powerful weapons.

The Destroyer can apparently be summoned only by Asgard's king to swiftly annihilate Asgard's enemies.

Control over The Destroyer comes from Gungnir (as seen in Thor 1), however, our page lists that weapons as "At least Multi-Continental Level". The fact that the guidebook states that the Destroyer is more effective in "swiftly annihilating Asgard's enemies" (which is listed as Mountain Level on his page) in contrast to Gungnir is interesting.

---

Supporting Statements:
In the Visual Dictionary, it states this about the Destroyer armor (link):

Armor is impervious to almost all known weapons.

This is the same guidebook that says this about Gungnir:

Odin's spear is the symbol of Asgardian kingship and was borne by his father Bor before him. Made of Uru metal, it wields great power over the realm of Asgard, including control of the Bifrost bridge and the guardian automaton known as the Destroyer

Again... interesting that the guidebook says this about Gungnir, but also says that the Destroyer's armor is invulnerable to almost "all known weapons."

---
Mjlonir should have a Multi-Continental scale. Odin said this during the coronation scene in Thor 1:

"Mighty Hammer Mjlonir. Forged in the heart of a... dying star. It's power has no equal.

1. This means that Mjlonir should share the same scale as Gungnir.
2. It would also upscale Awakened Thor since Odin said Mjlonir wasn't the source of his strength.

---
Lastly, on page 81 it says this about Odin's fight with Laufey:

Odin defeated Laufey, the Frist Giant king -- but lost an eye in the battle.

Laufey is only listed as Small Town Level for knocking out Frigga, however, the guidebook implies that Laufey was responsible for Odin losing his eye. For context, the Casket of Winters was stowed away elsewhere during that battle. This should possibly give Laufey an upgrade.

---

What are your guys' thoughts about these suggestions?

 

[Emerald]

iirc gungnir isnt supposed to be high 6-A. Its only at this level cause someone forgot to change the tier after we decided to give Cap. Marvel a Varies rating

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Hey y'all, I got some CRT suggestions that I wanted to run through here:

On this MCU Guidebook (link) at page 68 it states the following:



Control over The Destroyer comes from Gungnir (as seen in Thor 1), however, our page lists that weapons as "At least Multi-Continental Level". The fact that the guidebook states that the Destroyer is more effective in "swiftly annihilating Asgard's enemies" (which is listed as Mountain Level on his page) in contrast to Gungnir is interesting.

---

Supporting Statements:
In the Visual Dictionary, it states this about the Destroyer armor (link):

This is the same guidebook that says this about Gungnir:


Again... interesting that the guidebook says this about Gungnir, but also says that the Destroyer's armor is invulnerable to almost "all known weapons."

---
Mjlonir should have a Multi-Continental scale. Odin said this during the coronation scene in Thor 1:

1. This means that Mjlonir should share the same scale as Gungnir.
2. It would also upscale Awakened Thor since Odin said Mjlonir wasn't the source of his strength.

---
Lastly, on page 81 it says this about Odin's fight with Laufey:


Laufey is only listed as Small Town Level for knocking out Frigga, however, the guidebook implies that Laufey was responsible for Odin losing his eye. For context, the Casket of Winters was stowed away elsewhere during that battle. This should possibly give Laufey an upgrade.

---

What are your guys' thoughts about these suggestions?

That makes sense to me.

 

[Naeem0304]

iirc gungnir isnt supposed to be high 6-A. Its only at this level cause someone forgot to change the tier after we decided to give Cap. Marvel a Varies rating

To be fair, Hela is rated at "up to Multi-Continental", and Gungnir's profile says that it was used by Thor to impale Hela (unless Hela's scaling is wrong too.)

 

[Emerald]

To be fair, Hela is rated at "up to Multi-Continental", and Gungnir's profile says that it was used by Thor to impale Hela (unless Hela's scaling is wrong too.)

Iirc the scaling is wrong, cause Hela is "up to High 6-A possibly 5-B" while Gungnir is just "High 6-A"
So its just someone that forgot to change its tier. it should be High 6-B

 

[Emerald]

1. This means that Mjlonir should share the same scale as Gungnir.

I mean...
Gungnir kinda impaled Hela so no?

 

[Naeem0304]

I mean...
Gungnir kinda impaled Hela so no?

• It did, yes. However, Odin (who used to be more powerful than either Hela or Thor) stated that Mljonir had no equal in power. Thor never had the chance to effectively use it against Hela (and to be fair, she wielded it for a longer time.)

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Probably shouldn't scale Pre-Awakening Thor to Hela.

 

[Naeem0304]

Probably shouldn't scale Pre-Awakening Thor to Hela.

That wasn't the intent (it was for Awakened Thor.) Plus, Multi-Continental is a large enough tier (6674x) so it's possible.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

• It did, yes. However, Odin (who used to be more powerful than either Hela or Thor) stated that Mljonir had no equal in power. Thor never had the chance to effectively use it against Hela (and to be fair, she wielded it for a longer time.)

Pretty inconsistent as Hela caught & crushed Mjolnir casually but Gunier could handle her just fine even when weilded by a Thor far weaker than Hela

 

[Dinobot1996]

Hey y'all, I got some CRT suggestions that I wanted to run through here:

On this MCU Guidebook (link) at page 68 it states the following:



Control over The Destroyer comes from Gungnir (as seen in Thor 1), however, our page lists that weapons as "At least Multi-Continental Level". The fact that the guidebook states that the Destroyer is more effective in "swiftly annihilating Asgard's enemies" (which is listed as Mountain Level on his page) in contrast to Gungnir is interesting.

---

Supporting Statements:
In the Visual Dictionary, it states this about the Destroyer armor (link):

This is the same guidebook that says this about Gungnir:


Again... interesting that the guidebook says this about Gungnir, but also says that the Destroyer's armor is invulnerable to almost "all known weapons."

---
Mjlonir should have a Multi-Continental scale. Odin said this during the coronation scene in Thor 1:

1. This means that Mjlonir should share the same scale as Gungnir.
2. It would also upscale Awakened Thor since Odin said Mjlonir wasn't the source of his strength.

---
Lastly, on page 81 it says this about Odin's fight with Laufey:


Laufey is only listed as Small Town Level for knocking out Frigga, however, the guidebook implies that Laufey was responsible for Odin losing his eye. For context, the Casket of Winters was stowed away elsewhere during that battle. This should possibly give Laufey an upgrade.

---

What are your guys' thoughts about these suggestions?

I do happen to have some relevant information from other books:

Spoiler: book statements

According to the book Marvel Studios 100 Objects: Iconic Artifacts from the MCU, Odin's fight against Laufey was one of Odin's fiercest battles:

According to the Phase One: Thor junior novel, Laufey's fighting style was seemingly surpassed only by Odin's, and Odin and Laufey both similarly view each other as powerful despite old age:

The Thor junior novel also describes the Destroyer as being Odin's deadliest weapon:

The Infinity War artbook released in 2018 directly mentions Mjolnir as being one of the universe's greatest weapons:

 

[Naeem0304]

I do happen to have some relevant information from other books:

Spoiler: book statements

According to the book Marvel Studios 100 Objects: Iconic Artifacts from the MCU, Odin's fight against Laufey was one of Odin's fiercest battles:

According to the Phase One: Thor junior novel, Laufey's fighting style was seemingly surpassed only by Odin's, and Odin and Laufey both similarly view each other as powerful despite old age:

The Thor junior novel also describes the Destroyer as being Odin's deadliest weapon:

The Infinity War artbook released in 2018 directly mentions Mjolnir as being one of the universe's greatest weapons:

WOW! In that case, shouldn't Moljnir outright be Multi-Continental since it outright states that the Destroyer>>>Gungnir? The scans I presented could act as supporting evidence, but yours 100% confirms it. (Also, this sub has used art book statements such as Odin scaling to planetary because of his "planet-shattering power" which comes from Thor 1's Art Book) This should be fair.
And Laufey should scale to wherever Odin is on his page + Gungnir was used by Loki to kill him too.

 

[Dinobot1996]

WOW! In that case, shouldn't Moljnir outright be Multi-Continental since it outright states that the Destroyer>>>Gungnir? The scans I presented could act as supporting evidence, but yours 100% confirms it. (Also, this sub has used art book statements such as Odin scaling to planetary because of his "planet-shattering power" which comes from Thor 1's Art Book) This should be fair.
And Laufey should scale to wherever Odin is on his page + Gungnir was used by Loki to kill him too.

I had previously suggested in the past that the artbook statement could technically make an argument for scaling a base Mjolnir above the 5-C Hadron Enforcer, as we currently use basically the same logic to scale a base Stormbreaker to at least 5-C. It'd impact way more ratings though.

 

[Naeem0304]

I had previously suggested in the past that the artbook statement could technically make an argument for scaling a base Mjolnir above the 5-C Hadron Enforcer, as we currently use basically the same logic to scale a base Stormbreaker to at least 5-C. It'd impact way more ratings though.

I don't see why it shouldn't be accepted though, it seems clear cut.

 

[RoTt35]

Gungnir is supposed to be High 6-B, people just forgot to downgrade it. And Hela having High 6-A/5-B physicals with AD is also wrong, but a CRT to correct it hasn't been made yet

 

[Propellus]

Was the High 6-A/5-B proposals even accepted in the first place?

 

[RoTt35]

Was the High 6-A/5-B proposals even accepted in the first place?

Her AD was updated when Surtur was upgraded to High 6-A/5-B via scaling above the Tesseract, the issue is that Hela only harmed Surtur with her large weaponry, so it shouldn't scale to her physical stats or swords

 

[Dinobot1996]

I don't see why it shouldn't be accepted though, it seems clear cut.

I've never been certain it'd be considered consistent enough for how many profiles it'd impact without sufficient supporting evidence.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Problem with making Mjolnir > Gungnir is that, as pointed out above, Mjolnir was casually crushed by Hela with a single hand even though she just got out of her prison seconds ago after thousands of years of being sealed and so much weaker than she ever was. Meanwhile, Gungnir could actually harm her multiple times and even impale her while she on Asgard, so much stronger than when she destroyed Mjolnir at the beginning of the movie.

So by saying Mjolnir > Gungnir, we would be saying "Mjolnir which a weakened Hela can destroy with one hand casually is stronger than Gungnir which can hurt and impale a much stronger and powered-up Hela"

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Problem with making Mjolnir > Gungnir is that, as pointed out above, Mjolnir was casually crushed by Hela with a single hand even though she just got out of her prison seconds ago after thousands of years of being sealed and so much weaker than she ever was. Meanwhile, Gungnir could actually harm her multiple times and even impale her while she on Asgard, so much stronger than when she destroyed Mjolnir at the beginning of the movie.

So by saying Mjolnir > Gungnir, we would be saying "Mjolnir which a weakened Hela can destroy with one hand casually is stronger than Gungnir which can hurt and impale a much stronger and powered-up Hela"

Not that I care but Odin being much more skilled than Thor would allow for Gungnir to kill Hela without her having the chance to crush it. Also Gungnir is a spear while Mjolnir is an hammer it's piercing vs blunt force completely different

 

[Jinx666]

Does the What If episode about Hela come into play at all with scaling?

Theyre alternate versions of course but Odin should be relatively the same power, and we saw Hela able to take him on at least

 

[darkphantom9805]

Does the What If episode about Hela come into play at all with scaling?

Theyre alternate versions of course but Odin should be relatively the same power, and we saw Hela able to take him on at least

Odin literally neg diff hela during their battle and crushed mjolnir with absolutely no effort which was used by prime hela and they couldn’t do anything to him besides the ten rings which she doesn’t scale to

 

[darkphantom9805]

So by saying Mjolnir > Gungnir, we would be saying "Mjolnir which a weakened Hela can destroy with one hand casually is stronger than Gungnir which can hurt and impale a much stronger and powered-up Hela"

Hela isn’t above mjolnir that scene doesn’t even make much sense in verse as prime hela used to use mjolnir and mjolnir is still a key player against gorr tiers even shattering the necrosword which are far above hela maybe it’s possible when Odin died the enchantments on mjolnir weakened? Which allowed her to crush it as with the enchantments it’s described as basically indestructible

 

[Naeem0304]

Hela isn’t above mjolnir that scene doesn’t even make much sense in verse as prime hela used to use mjolnir and mjolnir is still a key player against gorr tiers even shattering the necrosword which are far above hela maybe it’s possible when Odin died the enchantments on mjolnir weakened? Which allowed her to crush it as with the enchantments it’s described as basically indestructible

Yeah, and adding on to that, on the Large Planet or higher scale for Mjolnir they use a durability scan from before Love and Thunder (in which they state it's indestructible.)

Also, I don't see how Mjolnir's actual durability would increase by 1000x once Jane got it (because if I recall correctly, the 'protection' enchantment that Thor gave to Jane was before Infinity War, so how did it just become Large Planet Level even though we're expected to believe that it was originally Large Country Level?)

 

[darkphantom9805]

Also, I don't see how Mjolnir's actual durability would increase by 1000x once Jane got it (because if I recall correctly, the 'protection' enchantment that Thor gave to Jane was before Infinity War, so how did it just become Large Planet Level even though we're expected to believe that it was originally Large Country Level?)

The enchantment that Thor gave to Jane was way before infinity war before ultron even

 

[Naeem0304]

The enchantment that Thor gave to Jane was way before infinity war before ultron even

Exactly. Mjolnir should blatantly be Large Planetary all-around (because it doesn't make sense for it to get superbuffed to that level in Love and Thunder when we know that Thor only enchanted it years prior to that film + Jane just picked up it's remains and used it, and Thor was shocked beyond belief in Love and Thunder that Mjolnir was back during the fight in New Asgard.)
And the icebreaker?

We clearly see that Mjolnir remained in the same spot where Hela broke it (because New Asgard is the exact place where Odin was resting, and where Hela arrived at.) That means that Thor had no time to ever "enchant it" to Large Planet Level or whatever.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Something interesting is that same symbol was shown here

Meaning that symbol represents the Odin force

Whosoever holds these weapons, and believes in getting home, if they be true of heart is therefore worthy, and shall possess... for limited time only, the power... of Thor!

I wonder if this means Thor scales to Odin star feat as he as mastered the Odin force this would make sense since other gods like khonshu can turn back the night sky

 

[darkphantom9805]

Exactly. Mjolnir should blatantly be Large Planetary all-around (because it doesn't make sense for it to get superbuffed to that level in Love and Thunder when we know that Thor only enchanted it years prior to that film + Jane just picked up it's remains and used it, and Thor was shocked beyond belief in Love and Thunder that Mjolnir was back during the fight in New Asgard.)
And the icebreaker?

mjolnir has always been weird with its stats we don’t truly know where it scales at this point hela being above it just doesn’t work because why would her prime state use it wouldn’t it shatter from her own strength if she was truly above it? and how would it be used against people a step above her like gorr and his necrosword let alone shatter it

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Odin stated to Thor that Mjolnir was never the source of his strength, it was just a tool meant to help control and focus his power. The same would apply to Hela.

Hence why Mjolnir has "Varies depending on the user" Rating in the wiki. The stats of the wielder become the stats of Mjolnir. Meaning Prime Hela's Mjolnir would have been strong as herself.

Cap and Jane became as strong as their respective Thors because of Odin's enchantment. The Mjolnir used by Cap was currently wielded by Endgame Thor, making Cap only as strong as Endgame Thor. The Mjolnir used by Jane was last wielded by Ragnarok Thor but still maintained a connection to the present day Thor, making Jane as strong as L&T Thor due to Odin and Thor's enchantments.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Hence why Mjolnir has "Varies depending on the user" Rating in the wiki. The stats of the wielder become the stats of Mjolnir. Meaning Prime Hela's Mjolnir would have been strong as herself.

The hammer has to be above the user by default otherwise it’d take damage in battle from strikes above or equal to it but that doesn’t happen heck why use it at all if it’s only as strong as the user how come it didn’t shatter against thanos skin who was above endgame Thor ?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

this doesn’t work either as mjolnir shattered the necrosword which could kill and pierce Thor

The same could be said for all the weapons Thor used against Gorr. X could kill and pierce Gorr

Piercing and slicing attacks focus more energy on a smaller surface area making it more potent

And L&T Mjolnir was able to parry and block attacks from the Necrosword

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Point is, Mjolnir went from being One-Shot by a vastly drained Hela when it was empowered by Pre-Awakened Thor to being able to contend with Gorr and the Necrosword when when it was empowered by Post Workout Awakened Thor