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If it's a significant enough strength gap, like the scaling for those two, then it should be alright
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[MCU] Hulk New Key + Downgrades
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Jason_Courne
He/Him- 913
- 1,000
Thor's 6-B feat wasn't really full power, it actually seems rather casual
Is there any reason for Hulk getting stronger at all? Nerd Hulk is just the mind of Banner and strength of Hulk, he is not stronger, but smarter. Sakar Hulk is just normal Hulk but smarter(?), maybe with more combat experience and skill as a fighter but not necesarily stronger
And Thor should have recovered by the ending of Avengers 1 (but Hulk can still send him flying with a punch)
Even disregarding the Thor scaling, Hulk should scale to Ultron, oneshotting him after he had some of his exterior armor broken
Is there any reason for Hulk getting stronger at all? Nerd Hulk is just the mind of Banner and strength of Hulk, he is not stronger, but smarter. Sakar Hulk is just normal Hulk but smarter(?), maybe with more combat experience and skill as a fighter but not necesarily stronger
And Thor should have recovered by the ending of Avengers 1 (but Hulk can still send him flying with a punch)
Even disregarding the Thor scaling, Hulk should scale to Ultron, oneshotting him after he had some of his exterior armor broken
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- Thread starter
- #43
That doesn't matter, Thor was weakened
Gladiator Hulk has been fighting for two years, possibly more due to the time dilation (Loki was there for a few weeks when Thor arrived), we can assume he has gotten stronger in all that time with the constant combat, and it's also demonstrated as Avenger Hulk is comparable to a weakened Thor and Gladiator Hulk, without killing intent, can even beat Thor when he is at his full power, who had to awaken his powers to defeat him
If you have proof of that, then sure, but not at the moment, the fight with Hulk was only a few hours after Thor arrived on Earth with the Dark Energy, which as clarified in the OP almost killed Odin
Thor was distracted and took no noticeable damage from that blow
What? That isn't a one-shot, he just sent Ultron flying who was already damaged by Vision, Thor and Iron Man, and still Hulk's punch didn't do any damage to Ultron's Vibranium body, not even now Hulk scales from Ultron's dura since Vibranium is "At least 6-B"
Jason_Courne
He/Him- 913
- 1,000
That doesn't make him stronger, just more skilled / experienced. Hulk was consistently stronger than Thor in their "Avengers 1" fight and repeatedly tanked blows from Mjolnir (which is far stronger than Thor's own stats), even oneshotting Thor when calmed down
Let's be real, the weakness is barely explained, we never see Thor's side of things and only know what happened with Oden
It was still a casual punch from a calm Hulk that sent Thor flying
No Ultron's durability is completely different from his AP, I'm saying Hulk scales to Ultron's AP since he overpowered the AI flying with a single punch, and once again overpowered him by the end of the movie off screen
Also can't believe I forgot this one, but despite Tony AT LEAST knowing of Thor's Sokovia feat, he still considers Hulk the "strongest Avenger" meaning he considers Hulk at least above Thor's Sokovia feat, if not outright stronger than Thor
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He only took one blow from Mjolnir, which scales evenly to Thor, not above Thor. Also, Thor and Hulk were more or less comparable, and Hulk only started arguably overpowering Thor because angrier = stronger
Odin explicitly said that it would affect both of them, and even Sif questioned whether Thor survived or not
Which doesn't mean shit if Thor wasn't hurt from the attack. Saitama gets knocked around a bunch of enemies, but he ends up one-shot killing 99% of them
Hulk never overpowered Ultron. Sending a damaged and weakened Ultron flying without dealing actual damage and Ultron not really fighting back doesn't warrant scaling
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- Thread starter
- #46
Why not? Hulk has been in constant combat for a few years
They look comparable to each other to me
It doesn't, Thor doesn't have a "higher with Mjölnir" in his profile since it doesn't amplify his power, Odin himself stated that the power always came from Thor and not from Mjölnir
Again, that isn't a one-shot, Hulk just sent a distracted Thor flying without doing any noticeable damage to him
What more explanation do you need? Odin stated that the dark energy would affect both of them and almost killed him
That doesn't make any sense, why would Hulk scale from Ultron's AP just by sending him flying when the latter didn't even fight back and was already severely damaged by Vision, Thor and Iron Man?
That quote is from before the battle of Sokovia and Thor's feat, unless you want to argue that Tony traveled to Sakaar with Hulk just to put it in the Quinjet and then come back
Jason_Courne
He/Him- 913
- 1,000
That's combat skill / experience
Looks like Thor struggled to stop one of Hulk's arms with both arms, got easily ragdolled by a single punch, had one of his strongest counter attacks with Mjolnir absolutely tanked, got treated like a sack of potatoes on Banner's back, got completely wasted on the floor while Hulk was 100% ready for round 2, 3, and 4, and was treated like a baby getting tossed across the room
Thor was getting completely dominated in this fight, the absolute most Thor did was briefly knock back Hulk with a strong counter attack via Mjolnir
That latter statement only applies for Awakened Thor, and Mjolnir was made to channel those powers
Yeah it nearly killed Odin, Thor was completely unaffected though
Because he overpowered him easily, Ultron's durability is significantly higher than his AP which is why it required Vision, Thor, and Iron Man to damage him
But Hulk didn't damage Ultron, he easily overpowered the AI (twice)
Look it's still Tony pretty blatantly putting Hulk relative to Thor if not stronger
Jason_Courne
He/Him- 913
- 1,000
Mjolnir was explicitly made to channel his power, Thor was completely stomped
- Struggled to stop one of Hulks arms with both of his own
- Got oneshot by Hulk
- Had his strongest counter with Mjolnir completely tanked
- Was completely floored and wasted by the Hulk jumping through a roof, while the Hulk was 100% ready for round 2
- Was absolutely manhandled before being saved by a random jet pilot
The thing is with Saitama that's portrayed entirely as a joke, if you are easily overpowered by a person and sent flying it means you are weaker than them
Well yeah but we later see Thor is in perfect condition
Hulk sent Ultron flying with a single punch, and later easily ripped him out of the Quinjet, meaning he is stronger than him as he had overpowered him twice
Ultron's durability is significantly higher than his AP
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His lightning and weather manipulation powers. His physical stats don't change
Thor used one arm to stop Hulk's, who had advantage of leverage in comparison. And Thor was more so trying to reason with Hulk rather than fight him at that point
Tanked the punch and smiled it off
If Thor getting ragdolled through boxes is called getting "one-shot", Hulk getting ragdolled into a jet and dazed is just as much of a "one-shot"
Because Hulk's strength increases with his rage, and you can clearly see Hulk being more pissed off by that point
The fact that Odin points out that it would affect BOTH him and Thor, and Odin was left weak and near-death, would mean that it would affect Thor in a similar way, which is supported by Sif questioning Thor's survival, unless dark energy selectively chooses whatever the heck it does to the people using it, which there is zero evidence of
Not called getting overpowered
We don't see Ultron fighting back, and he was weakened and damaged by Iron Man, Vision and Thor by this point
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While it seems weird, it's not more weird than Iron Man making a suit of armor a few orders of magnitude weaker than his other suits for some reason with Civil War.
Ultimately Thor was weakened and Hulk doesn't get a clear line of scaling to him until Sakarr. Which is after years of training.
Though "At least 7-B+, likely higher" is probably a better fit for him
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Huh, we’ll I just found this but apparently whedon thought nobody could fight banner in AoU
(55:00)
do maybe Thor wasn’t weakened in his first fight with hulk
(55:00)
do maybe Thor wasn’t weakened in his first fight with hulk
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Which implies that Hulk is massively superior to everyone else and only the Hulkbuster is remotely capable of fighting him, when Thor is clearly able to fight against and trade blows with Hulk in both of their fights, and there is more context to Thor's power level in the first fight via TDW prelude. This is just contradictory WoG wanking Hulk
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True, though hulk was ragdolling Thor in the last part of there fight. Besdies if hulk is supposed to be super powerful in whedon s eyes then I doubt he would have had Thor been weakened in there fight to begin with
only Qaw has accepted it so far. Plus I’d like to see what the rest of the mods think of this new info
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Because Hulk's growing anger increased his strength. And in the first part, Thor was clearly still trading blows with and holding his own against him
Official source material suggests otherwise
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Whedon thinks that no one is able to fight Hulk except the Hulkbuster
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He phrases it as if the point of the Hulkbuster even being there is because only it can put up a fight against the Hulk, so I suppose the scaling's okay. Question is, how would that be handled key wise?
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Not really sure what you mean by this. So does 6-B Avenger Hulk remain even with the other stuff mentioned earlier?
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What I mean by this is that Whedon seems to imply the whole point of Hulkbuster fighting Hulk (aside from having an action scene) is because he believes no one else could fight Hulk. That would support 6-B Hulk
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Idk. It still seems weird since it implies that Hulk is massively superior to everyone else and only the Hulkbuster is remotely capable of fighting him, when characters like Thor are clearly still able to hold his own, fight against and trade blows with Hulk on two separate occasions
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Yeah I don't really agree with it. I still think the downgrades are the best way to go. Not sure why the thread's direction took a turn
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This makes sense I suppose.
Shouldn't Thor have a weakened key?
Shouldn't Thor have a weakened key?
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I'm in favour of this idea
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- Thread starter
- #69
I mean, if we take that WoG statement literally that would make Hulk and the Hulkbuster considerably stronger than Thor, which is contradicted by the two battles Thor had against Hulk. In addition to the fact that WoG's statements about who is the strongest are mostly pure wank and outlier, if we took them all literally Thanos and Captain Marvel would be 2-B
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Should be alright. Perhaps it could look something like this?:
"At least City level+, likely higher (Was severely weakened by dark energy. Traded blows with Avenger Hulk. Able to break through the armor of Leviathans when even Iron Man's lasers could not. Caused a shockwave that levelled everything in a mile. Overpowered Mark 6 Iron Man and could have truly destroyed him if he wanted to)"
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Looks clean to me
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Looks fine to me.
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Since this CRT is accepted, I'll help apply the accepted changes and this thread can be closed
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