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MCU: 2-A Upgrades

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RoTt35 said:
And that's where the WoG statement about Ultron punching across multiverses and turning them into one messy universe soup comes in, and nobody is talking about dimensions
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You were clear you were talking about the dimensions/realities (which are considered universes) within individual timelines.
The only in-universe explanation for that statement is that by multiverses it refers to the group of universes that each timeline contains

RoTt35 said:
This tells me that you didn't understand how the cosmology works since you are confusing universes, dimensions and timelines. We're wasting time with this
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Sure, being clear in terminology to avoid equivocation is confusing things.

If you are so uncomfortable about it, I can just call the infinite universes/dimensions/realities within a timeline "universes".

RoTt35 said:
The Watcher stated that when Infinity Ultron was able to see him, something Doctor Strange Supreme had already done. Ultron breaks into the Nexus of All Realities after the statement and the Watcher was still confused
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Dr. Strange sometimes sensed the Watcher and he read about him; this is inferior to the level of consciousness Ultron developed after destroying all life. And if Dr. Strange had the goal of destroying life in the multiverse and could potentially access the Nexus of All Realities, he would be a potential 2-A threat.
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
You were clear you were talking about the dimensions/realities (which are considered universes) within individual timelines.
The only in-universe explanation for that statement is that by multiverses it refers to the group of universes that each timeline contains


Sure, being clear in terminology to avoid equivocation is confusing things.

If you are so uncomfortable about it, I can just call the infinite universes/dimensions/realities within a timeline "universes".


Dr. Strange sometimes sensed the Watcher and he read about him; this is inferior to the level of consciousness Ultron developed after destroying all life. And if Dr. Strange had the goal of destroying life in the multiverse and could potentially access the Nexus of All Realities, he would be a potential 2-A threat.
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He wouldn't need to do any of that if he threatens or destroys even 1 timeline in the infinite amount of infinitely branching then that equates to 2-A

Again you're not understanding the cosmology at all
 
RoTt35 said:
The only one wrong here is you, that feat is accepted at Low 2-C, so Ultron was affecting the space-time continuum, and since now the timelines are 2-A the feat would be that tier
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Retconning the main universe =/= retconning the alternate realities in one timeline segment. There's no indication he effected the Dark Dimension or the Quantum Realm. The feat itself is still just Low 2-C.

Ultron being 2-A would be from Alioth scaling and the WoG, nothing he did on screen.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Retconning the main universe =/= retconning the alternate realities in one timeline segment. There's no indication he effected the Dark Dimension or the Quantum Realm. The feat itself is still just Low 2-C.

Ultron being 2-A would be from Alioth scaling and the WoG, nothing he did on screen.
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And being above Uatu who can fix an entire timeline.
 
This is how the profiles would be if the staff is fine with 2-A:
The Watcher

Multiverse level+ (Stated to be able to fix the collapse of a timeline by Doctor Strange Supreme, who saw the Watcher as far more powerful than him. Fought decently against Infinity Ultron for a while, but was ultimately overpowered)
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Infinity Ultron

Multiverse level+ (WoG stated that Ultron was legitimately punching across multiverses, turning them into one "messy universe soup". The Watcher, who has seen everything that has ever happened, ever will happen and ever could happen, stated that he cannot imagine the horrors that might follow if Ultron is unleashed upon the multiverse, and that the Guardians of the Multiverse are his last hope to save all the universes within the multiverse, which should include every possible Dark Dimension, making Ultron a bigger threat than Alioth and Dormammu at his fullness. Fought and eventually overpowered the Watcher)
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We can put the rest of feats that are still in Infinity Ultron's current profile in a feats section since they wouldn't be important for that tier
 
To summarize:

1- Dormammu:​

Trying and wanting to devour the infinite universes/dimensions/realities within a timeline doesn't mean he is capable of doing it.
He is described to be a creature of insatiable hunger, which would be consistent with endlessly absorbing universes/dimensions/realities into the Dark Dimension one at a time without actually absorbing an infinite amount.

2- The Watcher​

The Watcher states that he cannot alter a timeline without risking destruction/collapse via. time paradox similar to what dark Dr. Strange did:
Watcher
He's on the wrong path.
I could warn him, intervene, but the fate of his universe is not worth risking the safety of all others.
Besides, I doubt he'd listen.

[...]

Watcher
Honestly, if I could fix this, if I could punish you instead, I would.
But I can't interfere.
You, more than anyone else, should understand that meddling with time and events only leads to more destruction.

So he can't actually 'fix' the collapse, and if he tried that would involve time manipulation that leads to more destruction via. time paradox.

3- Infinity Ultron​

The WoG can mean different things:
  1. Ultron is punching in different timelines, and brought random messy destruction to the material universe in several timelines
  2. Ultron is punching in different timelines, and merging several timelines into a singular messy timeline
  3. (as suggested in OP) Ultron was merging the infinite universes/dimensions/realities in each timeline into a singular universe

In 1 and 2, the word 'multiverses' would refer to a group of multiple timelines.
In 3, the word 'multiverses' would refer to the infinite universes/dimensions/realities contained within the timelines.

I believe 1 is reasonable, 2 is a highball, and 3 is unreasonable.

I don't think that a genocidal 2-C is incapable of orchestrating the end of life in the entire multiverse, especially if he has knowledge and access to the Nexus of All Realities.
Kang is not 2-A, but he can find ways to orchestrate the end of life in the infinite timelines of the multiverse, such as weaponizing Alioth.
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
So he can't actually 'fix' the collapse, and if he tried that would involve time manipulation that leads to more destruction via. time paradox
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This would still mean he'd be able to fix or reset the timeline. Just that it would cause further issues and break his oath. But he'd still be capable of doing so.
ShadowWhoWalks said:
Ultron is punching in different timelines, and merging several timelines into a singular messy timeline
Click to expand...
OP would be that Ultron was destroying the dimensional walls in one timeline which causes it to become a messy soup. Rather than take multiple timelines and mesh them together.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
This would still mean he'd be able to fix or reset the timeline. Just that it would cause further issues and break his oath. But he'd still be capable of doing so.
Click to expand...
This could mean something as simple as time traveling to the past and warning Dr. Strange (an intervention the Watcher previously said would risk other universes). It doesn't require directly putting the timeline back into shape through raw power.

Qawsedf234 said:
OP would be that Ultron was destroying the dimensional walls in one timeline which causes it to become a messy soup. Rather than take multiple timelines and mesh them together.
Click to expand...
The rating requires "significantly affecting", so it requires taking a highball interpretation in this case. Breaking a dimensional wall could be something as small as this:
 
Does Strange Supreme scale to 2-A or is he staying at Low 2-C.

BTW, we have staff agrees, can we apply the changes or should I get one more guy?
 
What of these statements ?
Characters from alternate timelines, especially in the series What If...?, are Universe level+ via scaling to The Watcher who is stated to be able to stop the collapse of a timeline, and Infinity Ultron who can alter the space-time continuum just by punching as well as being stronger than The Watcher himself.
Click to expand...
And Dormammu won't he get 2-A?
 
Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
what about thanos?
Click to expand...
His profile has this note:
Despite the Infinity Gauntlet being Low 2-C for using the combined power of all six of the Infinity Stones, it is unknown if Thanos would have been able to affect space and time with his snap. The least he would have been able to do, as he himself said, was shred the universe down to its last atom, and for this reason he scales to this feat.
Click to expand...
The Low 2-C should be changed to 2-A
 
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