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Master Combatants: Batman vs Wolf

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Pretty sure Batman had samurai training, unless I'm mistaken. What is Batman's standard non-prep aresenal?
 
I'm giving this to Batman. His standard equipment is extremely diverse and potent. Most of Wolf's equipment isn't impressive. Batman's gauntlets have also deflected Katana slashes before, IIRC so it's not like Wolf will be able to slash through the batsuit or anything.

Tbh Batman's tech and suit makes me think this might be a stomp.
 
Resurrection means absolutely nothing. Batman can win via incapcitation or KO. Wolf also wouldn't grow stronger or gain some sort of advantage by resurrecting, it just means Batman has to stomp him twice or thrice instead of once.

I'm not sure if it was Post-Flashpoint Batman (probably) but Batman, or rather Bruce Wayne, has a canonical feat of fighting for 28 hours straight. Wolf isn't going to exhaust Batman even remotely with just a few resurrections.
 
Wolf can surprise him. That's easy. Resurrecting immediately behind someone and doing a deathblow is an incredibly useful and potent ability. I agree Batman is much more likely than most to incap (though he is willing to kill, so that removes this restriction somewhat), but stamina isn't the point- the point is that a surprise deathblow will literally one-shot.

" His standard equipment is extremely diverse and potent. Most of Wolf's equipment isn't impressive."

Not really. They both maintain a lot of the same sort- disorientation and the like. Wolf's standard equipment allows summoning, explosions, fire, and distraction, among others.

"Batman has deflected katana slashes before"

Yeah, but so does everyone in Sekiro. The purpose is to destroy their posture to OHK them. Being deflected adds to that.

While we're on the topic, Batman pretty regularly struggles with a single enemy of his own AP, or at least groups of them, whereas insert Oniwa Gyoubu feat of taking down an army of similar AP people via skill alone, and Wolf > Oniwa.

I'm tired as hell so I can come back to this, but give the shinobi his due. Voting Wolf for now.
 
>Batman struggles with people of his own AP

Batman this rarely happens in any capacity to Batman
 
> rarely

What

Literally all of his villains

Like yeah he comes out on top but he does struggle
 
Daily reminder Batman has sixth sense precognition to warn him of that sort of thing

Fair

I mean, Batman fights against katana wileders all the time, and I doubt Wolf will knock him off his game enough to instantly end the fight.

Batman's literal entire existence is based around the fact that he's not a fighter hindered around superior or equal AP. And if it's skill that the argument is about, Batman has defeated people on stupid levels of skill. Like, 25,000+ years of experience (Vandal Savage for example), and those aren't even among the most skilled people Batman has faced and overcome. In terms of struggling with 8-Cs, well....

Casually yeets Lynx

Beats Red Hood with prep in a few moves

Stomps Red Hood 1v1 when he has no prep

Easily beats Hush dow

Yeets Lady Vic and Stallio

Stomps Merly

Beats Catwoma

Keeps up with Wonder Woman in skill while otherwise engaged in the middle of a call

Easily defeats David Cai

Beats Azreal in a sword fight despite having weaker weaponry and not being a primarily lethal weapon user

Beats Grundy, who out APs him by alot

Holds off a Apokalyptian super weapon with just a sword

I got more scans but I don't want them all in one post.
 
 
I think Batman wins by incaping/KOing Wolf, Bats' go to move is KO and rarely does he go for the kill.

Also while I know Wolf is very skilled id say Bats has the skill advantage and in a fight like this that means ALOT.

So all in all I say Bats wins via Incap/KO and Skill Advantage.
 
Yes, Batman has one of the most rigid no-kill rules in all of fiction. It's extremely rare for him to go against his moral code due to his discipline. He will always go for incap/KO before any other method.

@Mr. Bambu

"Yeah, but so does everyone in Sekiro. The purpose is to destroy their posture to OHK them. Being deflected adds to that."

Not the deflection I am referring to. What you are thinking of is either outright deflection with weapons or armor. Batman has outright deflected bladed weaponry with his gauntlets alone. His Batsuit is made out of the same material as his gauntlets IIRC. Wolf isn't going to cut through Batman any time soon. And as another poster mentions, Batman has precog so Wolf is going to have an absurdly hard time getting the drop on Batman.

You also have to note that Batman has Stealth Mastery that far transcends anything that Wolf can do. Batman has literally vanished in-front of the Justice League. Superman and the Martian Manhunter have both noted that they can't even detect Batman when he is sneaking into enemy territory.

Batman also has access to Pressure Points, enabling him to easily incapcitate Wolf with a few well-placed jabs.

"Not really. They both maintain a lot of the same sort- disorientation and the like. Wolf's standard equipment allows summoning, explosions, fire, and distraction, among others. "

Comparing the arsenal of Batman and Wolf is just...laughable.

Batman's standard arsenal includes:

200,000 volt Batsuit. Flashbangs. Tranquilizer darts. Taser Gun. Freeze Ray. Can spam explosives. Trackers that can stop Wolf from getting the drop on him. Camo. Holograms.

Wolf's arsenal includes:

Flame Vent (not useful. Batman has anti-fire capability). Sabimaru (requires Wolf to hit Batman to proc poison). Divine Abduction (Batman has trackers, precognition and decades of training to deal with something like this). Finger Whistle (not useful). Firecrackers (potentially useful for stuns but, again, Wolf isn't going to just slash Batman and win nor can Wolf touch Batman with the 200k volt suit). Invisibility (Batman can see through invisibility with his mask). Teleportation (legitimately useful).

Overall, Wolf has very little going for him in regards to his equipment. I can picture his Lightning Reversal helping against Batman but it's doubtful that Wolf would be able to predict or react to Batman's suit conducting 200,000 volts.

I'm just not seeing Wolf's win con here. He seems to be heavily outclassed from my perspective.
 
@Yobo

Daily reminder that thanks to the massive inconsistencies of Batman and if anyone felt so inclined, you could pull up literally dozens upon dozens of scans that show complete opposite situations, in which he gets outplayed by people like Joker and Quinn, outfought by people like Bane or even Killer Croc of all people, and so on. Meaning he himself has inconsistent showings of skill. Wolf does not.

And, to address the katana thing, while that is a minor point with little to do with how this will actually play out, the katana isn't Wolf's only weapon. It is just his main weapon.

His abilities exist, his tendency to use them effectively are limited and his feats of skill are regularly outtrumped.

@Psycho

Once again, SBA says Bats is willing to kill. The opposite of this is the main reason he won't in-comics, his code says no deaths. Here says otherwise. So the whole "Bats won't kill" thing doesn't really ever reliably apply to a VS Debate.

@Cryo

How the deflection is applied is irrelevant. The point is that even if you block an attack, you are still being acted on in some way- some force is beating you about regardless of whether or not you take damage.

And... no I don't, really. Bats has insanely good stealth, to be fair. Wolf also has good stealth. Both can move past those with vastly heightened senses and be fine. And before you show eighty scans declaring Batman once snuck up the left nostril of the Presence with Michael looking directly at him and nobody noticed, understand that there are an equal amount of opposite scans. In the end he falls somewhere in between.

Something something pressure points then kills then gets stabbed through the chest cavity.

To counter the notes you said on Batman's stuff. Tazer requires he hits Wolf, as do the other abilities. Explosives and other need-to-hit abilities get hard countered by a shield. "Camo" lol. Holograms aren't new when Wolf has defeated Lady Butterfly.

So downplay Wolf, feel free. But what you're saying isn't fully the truth, just part of it.

Wolf can literally one-shot via Deathblow, has a means to achieve that Deathblow, reliably out-skills in terms of literally yeeting armies of comparable enemies to Bats casually/with difficulty yeeting a single comparable enemy. Wolf can hard-counter much of Bats' arsenal and his own arsenal ain't bad either. He also is skilled in fighting those that specialize in dodging- he kills the shinobis/shinobi hunters with pretty casual ease.

Now, here, I could say "lol I don't see how bats can win" but I'll just skip that part, yes?
 
How the deflection is applied is irrelevant. The point is that even if you block an attack, you are still being acted on in some way- some force is beating you about regardless of whether or not you take damage.

Batman literally smacks bladed weapons away. Are you seriously not seeing why this is an issue?

And... no I don't, really. Bats has insanely good stealth, to be fair. Wolf also has good stealth. Both can move past those with vastly heightened senses and be fine.

Batman's profile specifically mentions Superman and Martian Manhunter not even being able to see him and has Batman vanishing in-front of people. You are comparing a man outdoing the senses of a god to a man evading the senses of man and beast. They have little comparison.

Something something pressure points then kills then gets stabbed through the chest cavity.

Something something precognitve movements into pressure points into second kill

Explosives and other need-to-hit abilities get hard countered by a shield.

What shield does Wolf have?

"Camo" lol.

Oh, I'm sorry. Are stealth-related tools suddenly irrelevant in a battle between shinobi? Very logical.

Holograms aren't new when Wolf has defeated Lady Butterfly.

Sure. Doesn't mean it doesn't give Batman a powerful tool to trick Wolf with, especially when Wolf has no method of destroying said hologram or knowing that it is fake.

So downplay Wolf, feel free. But what you're saying isn't fully the truth, just part of it.

You haven't even said anything that argues against my points.

Wolf can literally one-shot via Deathblow

He doesn't even one-shot with Deathblow in his own universe outside of mooks.

has a means to achieve that Deathblow

200,000 volts stops him from touching Batman. Batman can bat away his katana. Batman is a master of 127 martial arts and he can spam ranged weapons, explosives, freezing tools, etc. Can you actually explain how Wolf is meant to posture break Batman?

reliably out-skills in terms of literally yeeting armies of comparable enemies to Bats casually/with difficulty yeeting a single comparable enemy

Are you seriously stating that Wolf 'out-skills' Batman for defeating mooks outside of cutscenes, when he can easily just sneak past most of them? Do you even have any evidence of Wolf defeating 'armies' of mooks? Especially without having to use resurrection?

I'd also appreciate evidence that random armies of mooks are 'comparable' to Batman.

He also is skilled in fighting those that specialize in dodging- he kills the shinobis/shinobi hunters with pretty casual ease.

Shinobi Hunters don't fight like Batman and are nowhere near his skill level. Nor do they have his equipment. How is this relevant to Wolf vs Batman?

Now, here, I could say "lol I don't see how bats can win" but I'll just skip that part, yes?

Refrain from the salt, please.
 
Seriously. That doesn't matter in terms of Wolf's particular form of combat. So long as it comes into contact with the person, the force is applied and posture is damaged.

And you're using general terms such as god, man, and beast. The fact that literal deities exist in Sekiro (See: Divine Dragon) seems to mean little here.

A loaded umbrella. One of the many prosthetic tools.

Not really. You're claiming Batman's arsenal somehow vastly outdoes Wolf's, and using the singular word "camo" as a defense to that. Apologies for finding that bit humorous.

Actually it does. Prior knowledge pretty severely mitigates the blow of that.

Yes I have. You have just quietly ignored what I've said because you have made a decision already.

> He doesn't one-shot

Okay now let's talk about how much you just revealed about your knowledge on Sekiro. First of all. A deathblow does unironically one-shot those who wouldn't have Immortality Type 2, on the basis that it literally tears up your guts and insides. 9/10 you're being impaled through multiple organs. On to the "mook" comment... Lady Butterfly, Serpent. Done.

He doesn't need to touch Batman. He has weapons for this reason.

"Master of 127 martial arts" isn't a feat, it is a statement. While I consider it legitimate, you only really need to be a master of one to out-do an opponent so long as you are better at that singular art than they are in their 127. And Wolf has that. Wolf literally outdoes armies of equally powerful people by skill alone. So that bit is irrelevant.

Actually explain? The same way you'd do any other way. Hit them until they drop. You say "Bats could bat away his weapons", which he can't since a fair amount of them are literally attached to Wolf and, to be clear, Wolf absolutely rofls in terms of Lifting Strength. He won't be taking anything in that department any time soon. Furthermore, the rest of those have already been discussed and hard countered in that post you regard as me not saying anything.

Are... did you play Sekiro? I'm speaking of Gyoubu. The first boss (with the possible alternative to Lady Butterfly)? If you did play, you'd know of the Eavesedropping mechanic, correct? Eavesdrop on the pair of soldiers immediately after the first samurai general you find, they'll speak about Gyoubu, the general guarding the gate to Ashina Castle. Basically, the conversation amounts to one soldier believing their forces are doomed and the other reminding them of some of the more powerful members of the Ashina clan- including Gyoubu. Upon hearing Gyoubu, the other soldier will remark that it doesn't matter how many enemy soldiers there are, Gyoubu will hold the gate (that is, until you kill him).

Moving on from that above point, this enemy army is the Federal Army, which includes members such as the Lone Swordsman. We even see some of their corpses in his boss arena. Why is this relevant? Lone Swordsman is canonically comparable to you in strength because a single one of these soldiers is a mini-boss later in the game. Gyoubu killed an army of beings that are mini-bosses sometime after his boss fight.

This can be confirmed by literally anyone who has played the game. Lone Swordsman boss is present in the well area of the Ashina Reservoir.

So basically your argument relies on showings of skill that are either just statements of skill or lesser than what Wolf has actually demonstrated, more versatile arsenal which Wolf can counter a good amount of, and the tendency to avoid killing, which is hard countered by the SBA itself. Bats is willing to kill. He's got no reason not to.

Not salty. Just find it funny.
 
@Mr. Bambu There's also that Wolf holds a fairly good AP advantage, so one-shotting vis aiming for the vitals and deathblows isn't that farfetched.
 
Even if he didn't, Deathblows do one-shot stronger foes, presumably just by garroting them.
 
Seriously. That doesn't matter in terms of Wolf's particular form of combat. So long as it comes into contact with the person, the force is applied and posture is damaged.

It DOES matter. The entire point of Deathblows is for Wolf to find an opening to do a lethal attack. He can't do that if Batman can just smack his weapon away. Batman smacking his katana would also open Wolf up to a killing blow, damaging HIS posture heavily.

And you're using general terms such as god, man, and beast. The fact that literal deities exist in Sekiro (See: Divine Dragon) seems to mean little here.

You are being obtuse. I am comparing Batman outdoing Superman's ridiculous senses to Wolf outdoing, at best, creatures with senses akin to their equivalents in real life.

A loaded umbrella. One of the many prosthetic tools.

Powerful force, such as from explosions, would overpower Wolf's posture when using it. Batman can spam explosives.

Not really. You're claiming Batman's arsenal somehow vastly outdoes Wolf's, and using the singular word "camo" as a defense to that. Apologies for finding that bit humorous.

???? That wasn't a 'singular word'. That was a list of what Batman has access to. Camo is extremely relevant due to it enhancing Batman's ability to hide.

Actually it does. Prior knowledge pretty severely mitigates the blow of that.

Wolf has no prior knowledge of Batman's equipment. He won't know that Batman has holograms until after Batman has already used them once.

Yes I have. You have just quietly ignored what I've said because you have made a decision already.

Don't assume my thinking process. That's the fastest way to make me disregard you as foolish. My current opinion doesn't reflect my ability to alter my opinion. But your judgement on my thinking process will make me disregard you. In other words, it renders this argument useless if you don't respect my ability to intepret your argument, reflect on it and respond.

First of all. A deathblow does unironically one-shot those who wouldn't have Immortality Type 2

So, how many have Immortality Type 2 in Sekiro? Most of the bosses and mini-bosses?

Lady Butterfly, Serpent

Lady Butterfly is an old woman that relies purely on agility to survive. I honestly don't what Serpent you are referring to. Which one has Wolf killed in one Deathblow?

He doesn't need to touch Batman. He has weapons for this reason.

Yes, but if Wolf is forced to touch Batman to Deathblow (grapples, etc) it would hinder him greatly due to the 200,000 volts. Wolf is actively forced to avoid touching Batman, even once, even slightly.

isn't a feat, it is a statement. While I consider it legitimate, you only really need to be a master of one to out-do an opponent so long as you are better at that singular art than they are in their 127.

Batman has trained in 127 fighting styles. Each of which he can use to vary his fighting style, thus making him upredictable and extremely difficult to adapt to. While, yes, you obviously can defeat a jack-of-trades by being a master, it won't change the argument that Batman can adapt and alter his fighting style due to his ridiculous experience.

which he can't since a fair amount of them are literally attached to Wolf

I'm not referring to Batman literally smacking them out of Wolf's hands. I am referring to Batman literally interrupting Wolf's attacks.

Are... did you play Sekiro?

Duh? I'm not even sure why you think that singular conversation indicates that Wolf can 'take out armies'. Yeah, Gyobou can supposedly do so (according to random soldiers gossiping, which is an extremely questionable source but whatever) but didn't you say that you 'only need to be a master of one' to out-do someone that knows 127 styles? Realistically speaking, Gyobou is better geared for mounted combat (he rides a horse and wields a spear after all). Wolf relies on mobility and deflections. Wolf can slash at the horse's legs, deflect the spear and dodge or jump over Gyobou's spear.

So, basically. Wolf can reasonably handle Gyobou due to his style countering Gyobou's reckless charging and relentless assaults. Due to Wolf's style being built around mobility, deflections and counters.

Gyoubu killed an army of beings that are mini-bosses sometime after his boss fight.

Ah, yes. So Gyobou can slaughter armies of people equivalent to Wolf but then die to Wolf.

Are you implying Wolf can slaughter armies of people equivalent to his strength, that Gyobou scales to slaughtering armies of soldiers scaling to Wolf or that Gyobou was actually weakened from slaughtering people equivalent to Wolf, thus meaning Wolf doesn't even remotely scale to Gyobou being gossiped as being capable of handling an army?

I'm honestly not sure what your argument is for this.

So basically your argument relies on showings of skill that are either just statements of skill or lesser than what Wolf has actually demonstrated

Statements of skill? Batman is constantly stated to know 127 fighting styles. It's literally listed on his profile. It can full-well be used as an expression of how experienced/skilled Batman is at combat. What statements of skill for Batman does Wolf 'actually' demonstrate?

more versatile arsenal which Wolf can counter a good amount of

...Which ones? The holograms?
 
It also is worth noting that, again, thanks to Lifting Strength, just casually deflecting an attack from Wolf is literally impossible for Batman. It wouldn't matter either way but this avenue of discussion is pointless.

And I agree that it is very impressive. But that isn't a deciding factor when both have bypassed enhanced senses. Superman has superior range on such range, but it isn't to the extent of matchbreaking. And no, not obtuse. Just caustic. Using vague terminology irks me.

And yet, it wouldn't. Batman's AP is lesser than the explosions Wolf can out-posture.

Which equates to Stealth. You're making two points out of one.

He has prior knowledge of illusions and understands them. The method of achieving such an illusion is immaterial to this fact.

Lady Butterfly being old hasn't actually changed her physicality. She still can damage you and take hits from you. A deathblow ends her life. Think really really hard about the only serpent in Sekiro. Also yes basically all bosses would have Type 2 Immortality via not minding their guts/insides being chopped to bits.

200,000 volts isn't incredibly useful in 8-C, if you didn't know. That would probably kill your average thug, but really and truly that's 9-B at base assumptions. So 8-C Bats has 9-B passive damage, is what you're proving as your point as to why he stomps.

Unless you know the exact martial art your opponent uses, or you have an ability to copy moves instantly by seeing them, of course you're going to be hard to adapt to. That isn't an advantage held by either side, Bats doesn't know Ashina style so my counter argument is the same as yours. Also, you're claiming Bats can adapt to his style mid-fight. A style based on maneuvers not in real life. Try again.

Bats can't shove Wolf's weapons either way. LS is vastly in Wolf's court.

No, I don't think you did. Not much, at least. You've shown a lack of knowledge throughout this entire debate. You don't know about the Serpent, who is literally before the first boss of the game. You didn't know about the loaded umbrella. Something just irks me here, you're either purposefully ignoring the feats of Sekiro, meaning you're untruthful, or you haven't played it, which means I need to explain everything. So which is it? Coincidentally, those random soldiers' statement is backed up by one such army of comparable soldiers being slaughtered in his boss arena.

And no, that's also wrong. Wolf is a shinobi trained in shinobi styles. There are such shinobis in the other army. Wolf is just better at it. So yeah. Gyoubu outskills armies of people with comparable AP, then loses to Wolf, who has better skill. Do not confuse AP and skill.

I am claiming Wolf > Gyoubu > Hundreds/Thousands of Comparable Enemies, all of whom are immensely skilled. This is purely a skill scaling chain, they should all be about comparable in terms of attack potency. So yes, Wolf casually outskills in terms of raw feats.

Yes. Batman is constantly stated. Well done. Statements are usable, but aren't as good as feats. Wolf has the latter, Bats just knows how to fight in many styles.
 
To be clear. The argument for Bats is the following:

  • He can deflect and negate physical attacks (Debunked: Wolf has much higher lifting strength and thus physically batting away an attack is impossible for Batman)
  • Batman has electric armor so Wolf can't even touch him (Debunked: The energy from the electricity is literally going to be 9-B to 9-A at best, not relevant for a 8-C fight)
  • Batman outskills (Up to debate, but largely debunked: Wolf has better showings of skill and merely being a master of many forms of combat does not in fact mean you are better at any one of them than your opponent is in their small handful of styles)
  • Batman's arsenal is superior (neutral. Wolf has methodology of hard-countering his more odd abilities, and frankly no argument was ever given based on Batman actually countering Wolf's stuff aside from "dodges")
  • Batman's stealth is superior (Not to an immense degree, but I can agree he likely has better stealth)
To add to this, Wolf's own Type 4 means any death is impossible. He also has better AP, Deathblows which literally one-hit-kill people stronger than himself, and his own utilities. Disorientation and poison are both solid.
 
Also the gossiping of the soldiers' claim of no one getting through is backed up by the single presence of a Lone Shadow in the Ashina well after killing Gyoubu, who is guarding the main and only entrance to the castle (oh and the invasion too).

The Corrupted Monk's main way of deflection is smacking Wolf's katana with her hand BTW.
 
just casually deflecting an attack from Wolf is literally impossible for Batman.

Sure, I'll concede on lifting strength. I honestly didn't know Wolf was Class 50. It's rare for me to look at Lifting Strength.

But that isn't a deciding factor when both have bypassed enhanced senses. Superman has superior range on such range, but it isn't to the extent of matchbreaking.

I have to disagree here. Batman is capable of stealth to such a degree that not even Superman or the Martian Manhunter can perceive him. They both have super sight. Superman has such an absurd vision that...well, I won't go into it right now. Point is, Superman's vision is so absurd that the concept of Batman evading Superman's senses would break my ability to believe anyone can feasibly see Batman on a physical level when he doesn't want to be seen.

Does Wolf have any feats even remotely comparable to this? I can't think of any.

And yet, it wouldn't. Batman's AP is lesser than the explosions Wolf can out-posture.

How do heavy enemies scale in Sekiro? The big ones that wield clubs do a great deal of posture damage to it.

He has prior knowledge of illusions and understands them. The method of achieving such an illusion is immaterial to this fact.

Yes but he won't know that Batman is capable of using such illusions until after they were already used. I'm not arguing Batman can spam them. I'm arguing that Batman can trick Wolf at least once with a hologram.

Think really really hard about the only serpent in Sekiro.

There are two Great Serpents. The one you are probably referring to actually takes multiple deathblows. Wolf stabs it two separate times directly in the head when he already blinded it beforehand. It was also resting.

So Wolf took multiple deathblows to kill a blinded, resting, Great Serpent.

Bats doesn't know Ashina style so my counter argument is the same as yours.

No. I am stating that Batman can change his style, whereas Wolf is limited. If Wolf learns or adapts to Batman, Batman can change how he fights. Wolf lacks that versatility, meaning Batman can learn how Wolf fights but Wolf will, likely, be incapable of handling Batman's diversity.

Also, you're claiming Bats can adapt to his style mid-fight.

Where did I say this? Do you mean me stating that Batman can adapt his fighting style? What I mean by that is Batman changing how he fights on a circumstantial basis. Not Batman adapting to Wolf.

No, I don't think you did. Not much, at least. You've shown a lack of knowledge throughout this entire debate.

I've played through most of Ashina dojo. I'm still getting through the rest of the game.

You don't know about the Serpent, who is literally before the first boss of the game.

You don't even kill the Serpent before the first boss. You just stab one of its eyes.

You didn't know about the loaded umbrella.

Dude. You buy it for 1,600 Sen at a location not far from where I am at. It's not even mentioned on Wolf's profile, not from what I can see.

Something just irks me here, you're either purposefully ignoring the feats of Sekiro, meaning you're untruthful, or you haven't played it, which means I need to explain everything.

This is a seriously arrogant statement. I apologise for not completing the entire game and analyzing information not present on Wolf's profile before discussing fictional battles involving the game. Is that what you wanted to hear?

So which is it? Coincidentally, those random soldiers' statement is backed up by one such army of comparable soldiers being slaughtered in his boss arena.

Is it proven that those soldiers were slaughtered by him?

I am claiming Wolf > Gyoubu > Hundreds/Thousands of Comparable Enemies,

Where are you getting these figures from? Would Gyoubu even be at his peak when, as you imply, he slaughtered 'hundreds/thousands' of people comparable to Wolf?

Yes. Batman is constantly stated. Well done. Statements are usable, but aren't as good as feats. Wolf has the latter, Bats just knows how to fight in many styles.

Again, what feats surpass Batman's statements?
 
Batman outskills (Up to debate, but largely debunked: Wolf has better showings of skill and merely being a master of many forms of combat does not in fact mean you are better at any one of them than your opponent is in their small handful of styles)

What showings of skill does Wolf have that would even remotely match or surpass Batman?

Batman's arsenal is superior (neutral. Wolf has methodology of hard-countering his more odd abilities, and frankly no argument was ever given based on Batman actually countering Wolf's stuff aside from "dodges")

Go to Batman's resistances. He resists several of Wolf's prosthetics.

Batman's stealth is superior (Not to an immense degree, but I can agree he likely has better stealth)

That's a horrific downplay when you compare Batman's stealth feats to Wolf's stealth feats.

Wolf's own Type 4 means any death is impossible.

Batman has access to Freeze Ray, which freezes his opponents solid. He can also teleport. Does Wolf only resurrect in the place he died? If so, I can think of numerous ways that Batman can trap him in an endless death loop.

I'm going to bed, don't know if I will continue posting in this thread or not.
 
And I disagree. Your singular valid point here is that Batman's stealth advantage, which isn't to some immense provable degree, somehow causes him to win in the face of Wolf either countering all of his abilities or just being better at them.

People in Sekiro have enhanced senses, and as you've said, he bypasses normal animals. So they aren't as good as Supes, but at close range they really aren't terribly different.

Enemies? You mean the mooks you so readily disregarded moments ago? They don't. They'd be 9-B at best and like any other low-tier fodder in the game they'd be a fun little term called Game Mechanics.

Resting has no bearing on your durability, nor does blinded.

And Batman changing his fighting style does... what? Wolf doesn't know the styles so he doesn't have any advantage regardless, and Bats doesn't know Wolf's.

"Where did I say this?"

"Batman can change how he fights. Wolf lacks that versatility, meaning Batman can learn how Wolf fights but Wolf will, likely, be incapable of handling Batman's diversity."

Where didn't you say it. It's false, a bit of an extrapolation really, to assume Batman can somehow learn Wolf's entire styles (there are multiple styles in Sekiro, to be clear) in the span of a few minutes at best.

But you do kill the Serpent by this key (8-C and 8-B), plus you encounter Serpent before Gyoubu. And yet you didn't know. I'm assuming your info comes from a guide somewhere.

My arrogance isn't arrogance at all. Consider it confusion. I'm wondering why a person that claims to have played Sekiro doesn't know about 90% of the relevant knowledge, a fair amount of it which comes from the first boss or thereabouts.

"Proven" to the extent that people were saying that he was/could do it and it's done when you get there. So yeah.

I'm getting the numbers from the bodies strewn in his area and the average size of a japanese army (for reference, a large army would be about 80,000, whereas a more typical army would be in the lower-thousands to ten-thousands). And yes. He did that during the siege of Ashina. Literally during or just before the events of the game. if you'd beaten the first boss you would have seen this.

The feat we've been discussing this entire time, for one. Ignore it if you like.
 
If you plan to continously ignore evidence from myself and the game you claimed to have played, don't bother debating. It isn't a debate at that point. You've ignored the skill feat from Gyoubu, disregarded common knowledge on the game on the premise that it isn't on the profile, disregarded the Serpent because "lol you don't kill it before Gyoubu".

Literally your argument hinges on blatantly ignoring Gyoubu's absurd skill feat in the name of blindly saying Bats is somehow comparable. And you still haven't dealt with any of the prosthetics Wolf has that Batman doesn't resist. This includes Wolf's better abilities such as the firecrackers to deafen/blind a target.

He can or appear at a statue. Which, again, in-game common knowledge.

So again, I have to ask, have you actually played Sekiro? At all?
 
People in Sekiro have enhanced senses, and as you've said, he bypasses normal animals. So they aren't as good as Supes, but at close range they really aren't terribly different.

Are you implying that characters in Sekiro can contend with Superman on a sensory-level?

Enemies? You mean the mooks you so readily disregarded moments ago? They don't. They'd be 9-B at best and like any other low-tier fodder in the game they'd be a fun little term called Game Mechanics.

Mook refers to random enemies that serve as fodder, which accurately describes any enemy that isn't a boss or mini-boss.

Can you show that it is only game mechanics for powerful attacks from mooks to heavily damage Wolf's posture with the Umbrella?

Resting has no bearing on your durability, nor does blinded.

Deathblows are literally done by breaking your opponent's posture. I'm not arguing durability by mentiong the status of the serpent. I'm stating that it was completely exposed to Wolf's attacks and it still took him multiple Deathblows to kill it.

And Batman changing his fighting style does... what? Wolf doesn't know the styles so he doesn't have any advantage regardless, and Bats doesn't know Wolf's.

If Wolf can counter or react to certain techniques that Batman uses, Batman has other options due to his diversity of knowledge. I am stating that Batman is too diverse at martial arts for Wolf to appropriately counteract Batman's styles.

Where didn't you say it. It's false, a bit of an extrapolation really, to assume Batman can somehow learn Wolf's entire styles (there are multiple styles in Sekiro, to be clear) in the span of a few minutes at best.

...where did I say Batman can 'learn' Wolf's 'entire' styles? I stated that Batman can adapt to Wolf but Wolf will not be able to adapt to Batman, due to Batman having access to 127 different martial arts whereas Wolf has access to only a few of his own fighting styles.

I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about this. Batman has less to learn about how Wolf fights. Wolf has more to learn about how Batman fights.

But you do kill the Serpent by this key (8-C and 8-B), plus you encounter Serpent before Gyoubu. And yet you didn't know. I'm assuming your info comes from a guide somewhere.

Alright, you are starting to irritate me. Do I have to post a screenshot of the game in my steam account with the hours played? Oh wait, I don't care.

I didn't say Wolf doesn't kill the Serpent. I stated it takes multiple Deathblows, not one (like you stated). I also stated that he only blinds the Serpent before Gyoubu (when it didn't even know Wolf was there). Wolf doesn't kill the Serpent before he fights Gyoubu and he only damaged its eyeball when it was unaware of Wolf.

I'm not even going to bother getting into the specifics of eyeball durability. That isn't even remotely what I was arguing. All I was arguing was that, no, Wolf doesn't kill the Serpent in one deathblow.

I'm getting the numbers from the bodies strewn in his area and the average size of a japanese army (for reference, a large army would be about 80,000, whereas a more typical army would be in the lower-thousands to ten-thousands).

So you are comparing a fictional army to a real life army in terms of its units? Where exactly is your evidence that the army invading Ashina is of this size, that Gyoubu fought even, say, 1,000 solo or that they were all comparable to Wolf?

And yes. He did that during the siege of Ashina. Literally during or just before the events of the game. if you'd beaten the first boss you would have seen this.

I did beat the first boss, months ago. I stopped playing the game, months ago, due to obligations arising and other game releases consuming my attention span (when I had any). I sincerely don't understand why you feel compelled to belittle me in such a fashion.

As I already stated. I'm going to bed, was only looking at another thread when I saw the notification to this thread. Not sure if I will continue posting about this.
 
No, nevertheless, Batman does not have Sleep Manipulation on his profile.

Actually he does, it's just an inherent power of his, it's a part of his equipment and he has multiple sleep grenades

See his fight with Ruby Rose
 
Schnee One said:
Does Wolf resist Sleep?
Click to expand...
No, but again, projectiles are pretty casually dealt with via the Loaded Umbrella.

@Mayo

No. I've even said Supes is better. I'm just saying Batman doesn't hold such an amazing stealth advantage as to completely overrule Wolf's other notable abilities. I've said this every time except when I poked fun at "god > beast lol".

Yes. So why bring them up here? It's only game mechanics for a creature that is nowhere even remotely close to you to harm you. This is the assumption for every game. Hell, if we're on the subject, 4-C Hollows from Dark Souls when?

Yes, Deathblows are done by breaking posture. However, the fact that they one-shot isn't related to that posture breaking. And for the record, no. A single deathblow animation killed the Serpent. The first merely blinded it because the eye was brought within close contact of Wolf.

Wolf doesn't need to counteract his styles, simply excel to an absurd degree at his own. Which he's done. Bats has no feats comparable. His 100+ martial arts aren't equatable to Wolf's small handful.

No, you don't have to post anything. Just show some baseline knowledge of the game before looking up a guide to tell you things. You've shown an astounding lack of knowledge on a game you're decently into (Ashina Dojo, you said).

And, to add to this point, again, you are wrong, though I cannot fault you with this one because it isn't as blatant as the other dozen things you've ignored. The snake is aware of Wolf in the little hut thing. The lore states that creatures in Sekiro regularly sacrifice themselves to the Serpent in order to "marry" it by letting the serpent devour them. You get into the structure people sacrifice themselves in to hide, thus the Serpent takes it as a change of heart. The lore to this is available on the Shunpou assassin just after the serpent's first area, if you kill him you'll pick up an item with the description to back this up.

No, the low-end is based purely on the number of corpses in Ashina Castle. I just happen to also know the army is much larger based on it being set in Japan. Basically, nothing contradicts the latter but even the former displays Wolf casually slaughtering Bruce in terms of raw skill.

Months ago? It came out just over two months ago. Surely the knowledge of the entire game can't have left your mind when Batman's feats seem to stick like glue? I feel compelled to find why you blatantly ignore relevant information about Sekiro in a versus thread when you claim over and over to have played it to the relevant point and beyond. Saying you hadn't actually played it is the kindest assumption I can make- the other is that you are belligerantly ignoring Wolf's abilities in the name of allowing Batman to win. Forgive me for not assuming the latter before the former.
 
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