Massive TWD Upgrade

[Renitr]

All calcs by Jason_Courne
[The Walking Dead: Onslaught]
The events of the game have been confirmed to take place between "Wrath"-ending of TWD season 8 (8x16) and "A New Beginning" -beginning of TWD season 9 (9x1) and is considered canon to the television universe

The Walking Dead: Onslaught

The Walking Dead: Onslaught is a VR game, based on AMC's The Walking Dead. The game was released on PC, and PlayStation VR. The Walking Dead: Onslaught was released physically on PlayStation VR on October 9, 2020. There will be four different editions: Standard Edition, Deluxe Edition, Survivor...

walkingdead.fandom.com

0.015 tons accepted from this calc

Walkers break a train door

vsbattles.fandom.com

Another calc accepted

Walkers destroy a shipping container door

vsbattles.fandom.com

Calc of dynamite power in this game (not accepted, but I'm still trying to find someone who could evaluate this)

Walking Dead Onslaught Dynamite power

vsbattles.fandom.com

This dynamite explosion can vaporize several walkers
2:13:42

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

16:45 Chapter Four (main story of this game. Daryl Dixon playable character)
18:49. Daryl can tank this dynamite explosion without damage

Rick also can tank this explosion in close range. 1:50:30


Why is it Rick? Because he can be selected as a character to participate in this mission, which is what the player does. 1:43:04

Another Rick tanked explosion in close range. 18:07


Another canon game for TWD tv series is [The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct]
The game acts as a prequel to the TV series revolving around Daryl Dixon and his brother Merle on a haunting, unforgiving quest to make their way to the supposed safety of Atlanta. The plot of The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct is referenced in The Walking Dead: Onslaught. https://walkingdead.fandom.com/wiki/The_Walking_Dead:_Survival_Instinct

Daryl can survive after 3 walkers hit (30:48) (3 hits to destroy the train door). Judging by the health indicator he can survive after over 3 walkers hits


Another Daryl survive after over 3 walkers hits. Starts 2:37


Governor can kill walker with his physical punches. 2:29
https://youtu.be/lNEZrBW79TU?si=nceEtptrNBXD58Bu

Conclusion: Walkers can destroy train doors and shipping container doors
https://www.youtube.com/live/I1_ZXZy6znY?si=N6jsvIdFZFF6kyM6 2:42:40

Train Doors-3 hits

Shipping container doors-6 hits

In TWD Onslaught there are many moments where walkers in different locations can destroy large doors, gates countainer doors
https://youtu.be/O6N4CdGwVpE?si=zqjDZH8Pk-47EBy- 19:28

Governor can kill walker with bare hands

Daryl (Survival Instinct) can survive after over 3 walkers hits (Maybe he can survive after 6 hits)

Daryl and Rick can tank dynamite explosion which can vaporizing several walkers without any damage

Rick and Governor can harm each other

- YouTube

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youtu.be

Rick and Negan can harm each other and should be comparable. 1:18

- YouTube

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youtu.be

Rick and Shane can harm each other

- YouTube

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youtu.be

Beta and Daryl can harm each other

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Cordon and Daryl can harm each other

- YouTube

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youtu.be

And

- YouTube

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youtu.be

Merle can harm Daryl and should be comparable to him. 1:36

- YouTube

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youtu.be

Suggestion: Upgrade TWD characters like Beta Negan Rick Daryl Shane Governor Merle Cordon to Small Building Level

 

[Livinmeme]

Why is there a furry there?

 

[Renitr]

Why is there a furry there?

I don't know)

 

[Baken384]

interesting, following, although is there an official source that states the games are canon?

 

[King_Dom470]

9-A TWD is the best thing ever

Agreed

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

As long as its canon than I'm sure its fine

 

[Cropfist]

Daryl's durability would lead to recursive scaling, as walkers who make him struggle would scale to the weapon that vaporized them

 

[Renitr]

interesting, following, although is there an official source that states the games are canon?

Wiki

 

[Renitr]

Daryl's durability would lead to recursive scaling, as walkers who make him struggle would scale to the weapon that vaporized them

But Daryl have another durability feat. Survive after over 3 hits from walkers in TWD survival instinct

 

[MarkGoldbridge]

Sure, agreed.

 

[rydernew]

Agree.
Do you have something about speed?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Agree.

 

[Renitr]

Agree.
Do you have something about speed?

TWD Speed Upgrade

This calc was accepted. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Jason_Courne/TWD_Daryl_dodges_gunfire Suggestion: Upgrade combat and reactions speed of TWD characters who comparable and scales from Daryl (like Rick Negan Beta Cordon Merle Governor Shane) to subsonic. Jesus should be at least...

vsbattles.com

 

[rydernew]

TWD Speed Upgrade

This calc was accepted. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Jason_Courne/TWD_Daryl_dodges_gunfire Suggestion: Upgrade combat and reactions speed of TWD characters who comparable and scales from Daryl (like Rick Negan Beta Cordon Merle Governor Shane) to subsonic. Jesus should be at least...

vsbattles.com

I meant something new speed stuff in twd ounslaught.

 

[Renitr]

I meant something new speed stuff in twd ounslaught.

No. At least I didn't find anything

 

[Renitr]

To make it all look more confident, I decided to collect the moments where TWD characters kill walkers without weapons

Daryl kill walkers like this. 3:53


Beth crush walker head


Rick kills walkers like this 2:01 and 2:13


Negan kills walkers like this 10:00


I don't know if this can be a bare-handed kills but if any of you find or remember a moment when characters from TWD verse could kill or hurt walkers with their bare hands, please leave it here

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Never thought we'd see 9-A Walking Dead, but here we are

I agree

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

Never thought we'd see 9-A Walking Dead, but here we are

I agree

We'll get to small city level by the end of Book Carol

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If the game alone is responsible for the tier change, I'd instead push for the game to receive its own profiles since everything it has seems incomparable to the mainline setting.

All of this is notable since it also works directly counter to all feats of the established canon: these are things Walkers (and survivors) are shown to be explicitly unable to do. Rick and his companions were trapped by cannibals in train cars and were completely unable to escape, despite being in a large group mostly comprised of the show's peak (at that point, anyways).

The show is strictly human levels in terms of power, the video game obviously departs from that. Either take the core canon as paramount, or take the video game as a separate entity. The OP suggests this game is confirmed as part of the canon, I will ask where that was confirmed or whether it was just implied somewhere (or, perhaps, because it was given a stated timeframe in which it takes place? Unclear).

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I'm inclined to believe this is outlier.

Have the cast ever shown the same level of durability in the show as in the game?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No, definitely not. A couple of similar situations that come to mind in terms of AP:

• Rick couldn't break the bulletproof glass windows of the CDC building in Atlanta, and had to resort to the use of a hand grenade to do it (which did it easily). End of Season 1.
• An entire horde of zombies didn't significantly damage a metal barrier built at an angle to divert the horde from Alexandria. If I was forced to estimate, at any given time probably a few dozen were ramming into it at speeds high enough to splatter their skulls on the sheet metal- it's unreasonable that it would have stood long enough if a single walker can shatter a much more structurally sound train car door. This was near the beginning of Season 6 iirc.
• A single walker fails to damage Bob's shelter made of sticks planted in the ground. Season 4. Could be construed as LS but frankly most of what the walkers do is push, so I think it's fine.
• Even in the first episode we see them fail to break through the chained door, in the hospital. This would be comparably extremely easy.

There's definitely shittons more, any knowledge of the show reveals all of this to be an outlier for the main canon. As such, my proposals remain: count the game as separate or just don't include it for tiering purposes simply because of how inconsistent it is with the rest of the canon.

 

[Renitr]

No, definitely not. A couple of similar situations that come to mind in terms of AP:

• Rick couldn't break the bulletproof glass windows of the CDC building in Atlanta, and had to resort to the use of a hand grenade to do it (which did it easily). End of Season 1.
• An entire horde of zombies didn't significantly damage a metal barrier built at an angle to divert the horde from Alexandria. If I was forced to estimate, at any given time probably a few dozen were ramming into it at speeds high enough to splatter their skulls on the sheet metal- it's unreasonable that it would have stood long enough if a single walker can shatter a much more structurally sound train car door. This was near the beginning of Season 6 iirc.
• A single walker fails to damage Bob's shelter made of sticks planted in the ground. Season 4. Could be construed as LS but frankly most of what the walkers do is push, so I think it's fine.
• Even in the first episode we see them fail to break through the chained door, in the hospital. This would be comparably extremely easy.

There's definitely shittons more, any knowledge of the show reveals all of this to be an outlier for the main canon. As such, my proposals remain: count the game as separate or just don't include it for tiering purposes simply because of how inconsistent it is with the rest of the canon.

We are talking about a fiction non-existent verse. It may have its own rules. Building level glass and metal barrier durability confirmed. Ok small building level not suitable for this verse. But The Walking Dead Onlsaught is canon for tv series.

• The events of the game have been confirmed to take place between "Wrath" and "A New Beginning" and is considered canon to the television universe.[2]
• https://walkingdead.fandom.com/wiki/The_Walking_Dead:_Onslaught

I have one feat from this game that can be wall level+. Wall Level+ suitable for TWD verse?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

We are talking about a fiction non-existent verse. It may have its own rules. Building level glass and metal barrier durability confirmed. Ok small building level not suitable for this verse. But The Walking Dead Onlsaught is canon for tv series.

• The events of the game have been confirmed to take place between "Wrath" and "A New Beginning" and is considered canon to the television universe.[2]
• https://walkingdead.fandom.com/wiki/The_Walking_Dead:_Onslaught

I have one feat from this game that can be wall level+. Wall Level+ suitable for TWD verse?

It being fictional isn't relevant when the verse itself takes great strides to establish itself as being basically realistic, painting direct counter-feats to everything in the game. We can't just cherry pick the game for what is closest- either count the game as separate for the purposes of indexing or don't include the feats simply for how outrageously against the established strength for the verse they are.

As for the source canonizing the game, it links to a preview YouTube video discussing various facets of the game. The video doesn't mention anything about it being strictly canon, but mentions the setting being between those two episodes: I suppose, then, that this is taken to mean 100% canonization by TWD wiki. I don't find this to be exactly rock-solid, especially given the predicament of disparity between the two.

 

[rydernew]

No, definitely not. A couple of similar situations that come to mind in terms of AP:

• Rick couldn't break the bulletproof glass windows of the CDC building in Atlanta, and had to resort to the use of a hand grenade to do it (which did it easily). End of Season 1.
• An entire horde of zombies didn't significantly damage a metal barrier built at an angle to divert the horde from Alexandria. If I was forced to estimate, at any given time probably a few dozen were ramming into it at speeds high enough to splatter their skulls on the sheet metal- it's unreasonable that it would have stood long enough if a single walker can shatter a much more structurally sound train car door. This was near the beginning of Season 6 iirc.
• A single walker fails to damage Bob's shelter made of sticks planted in the ground. Season 4. Could be construed as LS but frankly most of what the walkers do is push, so I think it's fine.
• Even in the first episode we see them fail to break through the chained door, in the hospital. This would be comparably extremely easy.

There's definitely shittons more, any knowledge of the show reveals all of this to be an outlier for the main canon. As such, my proposals remain: count the game as separate or just don't include it for tiering purposes simply because of how inconsistent it is with the rest of the canon.

That’s because all these events take place before the events of the game and Rick could well have become stronger. Because Rick has already demonstrated after season 8 that he is able to survive the bridge explosion (Although Rick tanked only wall lvl damage, the bridge explosion itself is scales to small building). Is able to survive the explosion of a rocket at distance of one and a half meters at max (and the same rocket is able to shoot down Rick's military helicopter with one hit and tear Okafor into small pieces). And later, Rick is able to injure Thorne during a fight (and she, in turn, survived a huge explosion and nowhere was it indicated or at least looks like she managed to escape or hide in the same way as Rick and Michonne because she was all dirty, like the walkers after the explosion, when Rick and Michonne were clean even after the explosion during the fight with Thorne).

Maybe TWD characters can't be small building lvl, but definitely can get "At least Wall lvl" or Wall lvl+ on their profiles.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That’s because all these events take place before the events of the game and Rick could well have become stronger. Because Rick has already demonstrated after season 8 that he is able to survive the bridge explosion (Although Rick tanked only wall lvl damage, the bridge explosion itself is scales to small building). Is able to survive the explosion of a rocket at distance of one and a half meters at max (and the same rocket is able to shoot down Rick's military helicopter with one hit and tear Okafor into small pieces). And later, Rick is able to injure Thorne during a fight (and she, in turn, survived a huge explosion and nowhere was it indicated or at least looks like she managed to escape or hide in the same way as Rick and Michonne because she was all dirty, like the walkers after the explosion, when Rick and Michonne were clean even after the explosion during the fight with Thorne).

Maybe TWD characters can't be small building lvl, but definitely can get "At least Wall lvl" or Wall lvl+ on their profiles.

The feats are performed by Walkers. They are actively rotting, there's no justifiable position that suggests they'd be getting stronger- if anything, the implication is they're getting weaker. As I said, there are many other feats other than those I mentioned: these just immediately came to mind. I suppose if it was insisted upon I could go re-watch the season this is meant to have occurred in to show that particular season's consistent level of walker/survivor feats (that is, consistent with the rest of the show).

 

[Renitr]

It being fictional isn't relevant when the verse itself takes great strides to establish itself as being basically realistic, painting direct counter-feats to everything in the game. We can't just cherry pick the game for what is closest- either count the game as separate for the purposes of indexing or don't include the feats simply for how outrageously against the established strength for the verse they are.

As for the source canonizing the game, it links to a preview YouTube video discussing various facets of the game. The video doesn't mention anything about it being strictly canon, but mentions the setting being between those two episodes: I suppose, then, that this is taken to mean 100% canonization by TWD wiki. I don't find this to be exactly rock-solid, especially given the predicament of disparity between the two.

• This game confirms Michonne's last name to be Hawthorne.
• Daryl mentions going to an evacuation point once with his brother Merle. This is a reference to The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct.
• Three of the Scavengers' missions are given by characters Maggie Rhee, Negan Smith and Eugene Porter from the show.
• Morgan Jones gives you a letter saying that he is leaving. This is a reference to how Morgan Jones left Virginia and travelled to Texas.
• Candace Jenner, Edwin Jenner, Andrea, and Amy Harrison are the only characters from the TV series who are mentioned in the game other than the Dixons.
• The game was originally set for release on March 26th, 2013, but was changed to March 19, 2013 for unknown reasons.
• The Wii U version of The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct is not available in Australia due to low demand.
• Characters that you cannot recruit, but only talk to briefly, will not help you even if you are being attacked right next to them. The walkers will also not attack them when close to them.
• It has been said, especially during the AMA on Reddit, that Robert Kirkman didn't enjoy Survival Instinct, and basically all around hates it.
• The plot of The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct is referenced in The Walking Dead: Onslaught.
  • The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct is the first canonical game where Daryl Dixon is a playable character with the second being The Walking Dead: Onslaught.

In offical page of Michonne his surname is hawthorne
https://walkingdead.fandom.com/wiki/Michonne_Grimes_(TV_Universe). Actors from the tv series were invited to voice their characters in the onslaught game. It seems that there are too many coincidences between tv show and survival instinct and onslaught

 

[rydernew]

The feats are performed by Walkers. They are actively rotting, there's no justifiable position that suggests they'd be getting stronger- if anything, the implication is they're getting weaker. As I said, there are many other feats other than those I mentioned: these just immediately came to mind. I suppose if it was insisted upon I could go re-watch the season this is meant to have occurred in to show that particular season's consistent level of walker/survivor feats (that is, consistent with the rest of the show).

Even if they are already rotten, this does not mean that they become weaker and more fragile. There are moments where walkers can survive a mine explosion and other explosions almost closely, and then get up and move on, but that's not the point right now.

I was talking about Rick and Daryl who could get stronger after season 8. Because Rick in a game can survive this dynamite explosion which scales to this https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Jason_Courne/Walking_Dead_Onslaught_Dynamite_power

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I actually agree with Bambu regarding games having separate profiles from the live action films. Also, I am never a big fan of reverse powerscaling. Struggling to break through glass walls is considered an anti-feat by default and we never assume without proof that it's Adamantium glass that is harder than diamonds or other such knock offs. Especially if smashing the wall that is supposed to be harder than glass was the reason they got higher than 9-B in the first place.

Some could call things PIS or Game Mechanics, but I think game versions being separate from live action could be the way to go. What is any proof of them being the same canon anyway? And even if they were the same, one could argue the 9-A feat is also game mechanics dependent.

 

[Renitr]

The feats are performed by Walkers. They are actively rotting, there's no justifiable position that suggests they'd be getting stronger- if anything, the implication is they're getting weaker. As I said, there are many other feats other than those I mentioned: these just immediately came to mind. I suppose if it was insisted upon I could go re-watch the season this is meant to have occurred in to show that particular season's consistent level of walker/survivor feats (that is, consistent with the rest of the show).

The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Activision Reveals Walking Dead First-Person Shooter - IGN

Another game based on The Walking Dead is headed to stores, this time focusing on AMC’s TV show and two brothers you might recognize.

www.ign.com

More reliable sources indicate that survival instinct is canon for amc TWD

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You didn't timestamp that, but the point is still irrelevant for reasons I've already stated.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Activision Reveals Walking Dead First-Person Shooter - IGN

Another game based on The Walking Dead is headed to stores, this time focusing on AMC’s TV show and two brothers you might recognize.

www.ign.com

More reliable sources indicate that survival instinct is canon for amc TWD

The stuff from this in the OP still hinges on the other one, and this doesn't really address the problem of innumerable anti-feats.

 

[Renitr]

You didn't timestamp that, but the point is still irrelevant for reasons I've already stated.

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/developer-interviews/the-walking-dead-onslaught-is-survios-biggest-vr-game-yet

Survios is one of the most prominent VR game developers in the industry. The Los Angeles-based studio first made headlines when it released the standout title Raw Data, and continued to make waves in the industry by releasing other excellent VR titles like Sprint Vector, Creed: Rise to Glory, and Westworld: Awakening. Survios’ latest release, The Walking Dead Onslaught, is based on the AMC’s popular television show

The trio shares how they passionately aimed to make players feel like they were stepping inside an episode of The Walking Dead by modeling and texturing assets from the show. They also elaborate on what it was like collaborating with producers and actors from the hit television series.

What was the relationship and workflow like between Survios and the writers and producers from The Walking Dead show?

Game Director Andrew Abedian: Working with the AMC team and having access to producers, writers, and even talent from the show has been great. This level of collaboration was key to replicating the tone of AMC’s The Walking Dead and injecting it into our game. The reason the characters feel authentic and speak and sound like themselves is a direct result of the power of that collaboration. Throughout the entire development of this project, AMC has been included in every conversation along the way, and we have strived to facilitate a healthy dialog between both teams.

Considering specific areas, like Alexandria, from the television series are recreated in the game, how much research went into recreating the look of the show within The Walking Dead Onslaught?

Abedian: From the beginning, we wanted the world to feel like it belonged in an episode of AMC’s The Walking Dead. We spent an enormous amount of time harvesting footage and shots from the show to use as reference material for Onslaught’s environments. In the case of Alexandria, we took a look at satellite imagery of the actual on-set location of the town and charted that against reference images we gathered from its expansion in season nine. We made sure to use the same types of materials and allow the construction of the same buildings, but we went even further by extracting the metrics of the town and using them as a starting point when we began grey boxing the level. This made the space feel “correct” right off the bat, and any minor changes we made for user experience or technical reasons weren’t large enough to detract from that genuine Alexandria feel.

Art Director Tate Mosesian: A considerable amount of research went into the visual design of Alexandria. There were specific game design requirements that had to be considered, as well. However, when establishing the look of Alexandria for the game, the overriding goal was to make it feel like you are actually in Alexandria and that you are safe. In order to faithfully achieve that, I watched the Alexandria episodes over and over until I felt like I knew what it was like to live there and what the objectives and motivations were when Survivors began developing it as their own. All of the assets in the level are modeled and textured faithfully to the show.

(about anti-feats) Because the power of walkers varies from 9-c to 9-B
1:25. Walker burst glass without problem

 

[Deagonx]

Actors from the tv series were invited to voice their characters in the onslaught game. It seems that there are too many coincidences between tv show and survival instinct and onslaught

The only way these overlaps would contribute to an assessment that the game is canon is if the show referenced information that was originally from the game. It's a game based on a TV show, we would expect it to reference things from the TV show. This has occurred in many instances where the game was explicitly not canon.

Overall I share Bambu's assessment here. I have not finished TWD but I got as far as Season 9. The show indeed goes to great lengths to be realistic, and it is hard to think of any instances where a character did something that was anything more than "a bit far-fetched" in terms of physical abilities.

To be honest, glancing at the existing profiles, even their existing statistics are pretty generous. The only feat which is even prima facie superhuman is the "survives an 80 foot drop" which... has happened in real life.

My opinion is that even if its canonicity could be confirmed directly, we would have no choice but to index them separately due to the sheer volume of content of the television universe that entirely rejects the notion that they can do anything superhuman.

 

[Renitr]

The stuff from this in the OP still hinges on the other one, and this doesn't really address the problem of innumerable anti-feats.

We can reject all feats in this thread.
I have one feat from the game Onslaught which could be wall level+. He can upgrade characters like beta negan rick daryl shane merle cordon governor to wall level+. Walkers should be have varios street level to wall level+AP

 

[Deagonx]

I have one feat from the game Onslaught which could be wall level+. He can upgrade characters like beta negan rick daryl shane merle cordon governor to wall level+. Walkers shoudl be have varios street level to wall level+AP

I just don't see how we can justify this when so many key scenarios in the show depend on walkers -- even large groups of them -- being insufficient for knocking over a chain-link fence or other similar structures. All signs, IMO, point to walkers being universally human level or lower.

Like, didn't Merle survive on the roof top specifically because zombies were not capable of breaking through a door that was sealed with a chain? The entire plot becomes more or less non-functional through this lens.

 

[Renitr]

I just don't see how we can justify this when so many key scenarios in the show depend on walkers -- even large groups of them -- being insufficient for knocking over a chain-link fence or other similar structures. All signs, IMO, point to walkers being universally human level or lower.

Like, didn't Merle survive on the roof top specifically because zombies were not capable of breaking through a door that was sealed with a chain? The entire plot becomes more or less non-functional through this lens.

Some walkers can survive after fall from cliff


Some walkers can survive after this fall 25:26


And

Walkers survive a mine explosion

vsbattles.fandom.com

And

Walkers survive a fraction of a propane explosion

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Mr. Bambu]

They have higher via piercing damage, definitely- being capable of ripping human flesh pretty easily.

 

[Deagonx]

Some walkers can survive after this fall 25:26

Well, yes, but that isn't because they have extraordinary durability that the humans who kill them would scale to, it is because their death condition is different from normal humans. They cannot bleed out or die from organ damage. They can survive as a severed head. Any below the neck damage is essentially superficial to them.

 

[Renitr]

Well, yes, but that isn't because they have extraordinary durability that the humans who kill them would scale to, it is because their death condition is different from normal humans. They cannot bleed out or die from organ damage. They can survive as a severed head. Any below the neck damage is essentially superficial to them.

In real life, after falling from such a height, the brain and skull of humans are damaged.
I don't think ordinary people could have survived what the walkers went through in these calcs

Walkers survive a mine explosion

vsbattles.fandom.com

Walkers survive a fraction of a propane explosion

vsbattles.fandom.com