Massive Scott Pilgrim Upgrades?

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Again, I want to stress that there is no such thing as "vegan form" or "vegan mode". As a vegan, Todd inherently possesses his power at all times. Also, even if we were to assume there was such a thing, Todd performed his moon punching feat outside of said form, as seen here.

As I have repeatedly mentioned, every single time Todd uses his psychic powers, his eyes cease glowing and his hair is no longer held up the second he stops using said powers. Every. Single. Time. This is nothing like say...a Super Saiyan form, where a character will remain in said form throughout an entire battle without constantly powering down.

Even if we were to ignore all of this, Scott still bloodies Todd only seconds after he uses his psychic powers, which means even though Todd is obviously stronger than Scott at this point in time, he is not so much stronger that should Scott hit him, it doesn't hurt.

Finally, at the very least, Gideon should scale to Todd. Consider this. Scott in volume 3 was still fully capable of harming Todd, even though Todd was stronger. Gideon casually and brutally murdered a Scott who was higher level, had gained the Power of Love (which increased his stats), more experienced, and who had merged with Negascott, who due to the way the verse works, is a fully physical being actually capable of overpowering regular Scott, which would mean Scott likely received a very substantial power increase from that, as well.

 

[Antvasima]

This discussion seems to go around in circles.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I have replied to the blog itself. Just a minor adjustment to the calc, but the calc still places him at Continent level.

So what is the decision for this btw?

 

[Antvasima]

Probably to accept and scale from the calculation.

 

[LoudCloud]

Well the movie treats it like a form by having him use it for a long period of time without actually using his powers (towards the end of the fight when he plans on killing Scott). The video game also makes it so that if you catch Todd off-guard you will damage him, but if he expects it he turns into his vegan form and either blocks or tanks the blow. We also don't know if Todd was outside of his form in the moon feat since we don't even see his face so I don't konw why Azathoth keeps bringing it up.

But whatever, if Antvasima says we have to scale then I should go ahead and do it. There's not much authority I have on this site. And it should be Small Continent+ since the Continent calc contradicts the comic's calc.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Dude which calc are you even taking this from anyways?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

In case you like to know this, your Todd Ingram edit got reverted and since it'll likely lead to an edit and undo problem, i've decided to lock it for the time being...

 

[LoudCloud]

I tried clicking the link and the calc was deleted, no idea why someone would do it.

But anyway, originally the calc (for the comic) was Small continent level. The movie calc is higher but since that contradicts the comics calc (the orignal canon) we should revert it back to that.

 

[LoudCloud]

Originally someone Thebluedash did the calc. They did the movie calc, I pointed out it wasn't the comic one and they then did the comic one.

 

[LoudCloud]

Hold on I found it: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Thebluedash/Scott_Pilgrim_-_Moon_calc

Sorry for the multiple posts.

Edit: Woops the calc is actually Continent level, not Small continent+

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Yes, Bluedash was the one who originally did it before Perp remade it.

I presume this and most likely this are the ones your referring to?

 

[LoudCloud]

Yep, but the Perpetual's calc is just for the movie, not the comic, so it should be changed to just Continent level. The MHS speed feat also doesn't translate in the comic.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Well now that i think about it, the profiles here based on the original comics yes?

Not only that, but shouldn't they have Continent level SS? They're listed as having Class GJ yet Todd has Class YJ SS + Contitent level for being able to survive the shockwaves from punching the moon. Shouldn't that mean that they have level too for those who are on Todd's level?

Anyways i've unlocked it again if everyone here said we should use the old one again...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

We also don't know if Todd was outside of his form in the moon feat since we don't even see his face so I don't konw why Azathoth keeps bringing it up.

Because we see Todd jump to the moon. He does not have any of the traits that would signify him being in "vegan form".

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Azzy dude, what about Todd still? He's still Continent+ btw...

 

[LoudCloud]

We also don't know if Todd was outside of his form in the moon feat since we don't even see his face so I don't konw why Azathoth keeps bringing it up.

Because we see Todd jump to the moon. He does not have any of the traits that would signify him being in "vegan form".

We see a blur go up in the sky. We can't make out his face when he does. And as his back is turned just before punching the moon his hair is up (like in his vegan form) but his hair is up anyway due to the bandana he's wearing in the scene so it doesn't matter.

And yes it's based on the comics unless there is a lack of feats in which case the game or movie is usally a good indicator. But Todd already has a calc for his moon punch in the comics (continent level) so his movie one (continent+) shouldn't be used. The speeds should also be realtivistic+ flight speed (for flying to the moon so fast) and at least subsonic combat speed (for dodging Scott's attacks which at the time were faster than Lucas')

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I agree that the original comics should preferably be used for calculations.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

His hair is shaggy and messy, not pointed upwards. When he uses his psychic powers, his hair points straight up. His eye glow also visibly extends above his head and can be seen from behind.

Comic calc should be used over the movie calc, yes. Both are Continent level, with the comic one just slightly less so.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then.

 

[LoudCloud]

Todd's AP, Durabilty and speed haven't been changed to the comic one yet.

Should I do it?

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose so. As long as the comicbook version of the calculation has been evaluated and accepted.

However, it is probably best to wait for some more input.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'd say it's fine to do so, since it's literally just Continent+ to Continent for AP, and I think everyone else is already scaled properly to that.

I forget if we have a speed calc for comic Todd, though.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Very late (a**) reply but if our Scott Pilgram profiles are of the comics, i don't mind it. That and Azzy's right: Both Perp's remade one here and the original of Blue's results still land on Continent level AP...and stuff. Just that Blue's more of the comics and less AP as what Azzy yet again pointed out.

 

[ThePerpetual]

@LoudCloud The feat is literally the exact same feat from the comic. All seeing the exact same thing occur in a movie does is give us a timeframe, one not contradicted anywhere in the original comic.

And arguing an old calc should be used in place of a new one is sort of silly to be honest, at least as a stand-alone argument. You've not actually argued the calc itself, you're saying it is secondary canon due to being a movie adaptation and therefore doesn't count, even though I could get the same thing if I had a copy of the panel shown in the movie in the original comic. It's simply two similar portrayals of the same feat: seeing as this one is from a much better angle and not completely head-on, I prefer this one. The old image's curvature is off, regardless (look at the top right corner), so...

On top of that: there's nothing I can see that indicates any specific timeframe that it took Todd to reach the moon, so I have no idea why you'd assume that it's a Relativistic+ feat: and, if it was, it would apply to combat speed, as no distinction between the two is ever so much as hinted at (at least to my memory.)

I still can't agree with any of what you've proposed.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that ThePerpetual seems to make sense.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If it helps anything, here is the scene as shown in the movie, and here are the pages from the comic. It seems as if the scene is quite literally the same, but obviously numerous frames have been added inbetween to essentially animate the scene exactly as it was portrayed in the comics, but with a timeframe.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Do we need yet another calculation? Done right this time.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I think Perpetual's calc is already based off the animation, whereas the old calc was based off simply the hole itself as seen in another Ramona flashback (as in, after Todd had returned to Earth), iirc.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but don't we need a more accurate calculation for the comicbook, without a timeframe?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well, the calc for the comic uses no calculated timeframe, simply the fact he did it in one punch and how much energy it would take to make a hole of that size, so I am unsure of the best way to go about it.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps ThePerpetual can help out?

 

[ThePerpetual]

I mean, I don't think I would get anything dramatically difficult by redoing the whole thing with slightly different images. It would probably be a bit larger/smaller, but not to any dramatic extent.

I guess it's worth noting that the comics to portray Todd as having flown there, not teleported or something like that, based on the visuals, though due to it being a comic book as it is no timeframe can be confirmed. It's seemingly sometime very shortly after, though, as I doubt Marona would be staring up into an unspecified location in the sky for an hour or so if such wasn't the case: as a result, this probably would scale to travel speed?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I admit that this is an unusual case, given the very close similarity between the comicbook and the movie adaption, but our praxis is still to get calculations for the canon feat.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Alright then. Just figured I'd point out what this would/wouldn't change and why, all that stuff.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So, will you make a new comicbook calculation? A modification of your old one should probably be fine.

 

[ThePerpetual]

On it right now.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I'm wondering, for Todd's speed, are we going with MHS+ for the shockwave of punch, or Relativistic for his travel to the Moon?

 

[ThePerpetual]

He seems to be going very quickly, but we can't tell to what degree, exactly. Probably something like "Massively Hypersonic+, possibly higher."

Oh and by the way, here's the updated version. Must've done something wrong somewhere along the lines last time, this only yielded Country level.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Then it may be best if you ask the rest of the calculation group to take a look at it, before we change the statistics.