Massive Drago Hax/Speed Revisions

[Soste_To_Perivalon]

Sorry I guess I didn't watch the episode properly hahah, that makes sense. I figured it wouldn't affect them because they were above fodder - but thats cleared up. Infinite speed is fine by me.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

No problem.

Though if the thing with G.D.'s void gets cleared then immeasurable speed becomes possible again as its a different case than Code Eve's.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I was fine with Infinite speed from the get go. If it gets cleared up, consider me agreeing with Immeasurable as well.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Alright. Since Immeasurable Speed seems to be okay for now, i'll post the other bit of abilities I forgot to add in the thread:

• Invulnerability:

-Im not sure what form of this it would be, but I believe it's something Drago can have outside of his Invulnerability to Elemental Attacks. Rafflesian has an ability called Glow Shield that generates a special shield around him, with the shield having an immunity to all opponent abilities. Tristar has a similar ability called Grassed Out that also makes him Immune to his opponent's abilities (only this time instead of a barrier, Tristar becomes invisible and vanishes from sight entirely, unable to even be touched, let alone effected, by opponent abilities) and their BakuNano's (another form of weaponry like the Battle Gears). Obviously both are huge NLF's so they'd only be able to work against opponents who are equal to/weaker than the user. Glow Shield is evidence of this as it can be broken by a stronger Bakugan just by them hitting it.

• Automatic Shield:

-Could also be a thing here? Titanium Drago is described as being able to cover him and his whole side of the battlefield in a protective shield without really doing anything.

• Mind Reading:

-Should be simple enough. Merlix is a Haos Bakugan who's able to know what the opponents think during battles.

• Dream Manipulation:

-Goes along with the previous one. Merlix has the ability to trap opponents inside illusions/hallucinations it creates, and when trapped, the victims can have their thoughts and sometimes even dreams controlled by Merlix.

• Attack/Ability Manipulation (?):

-This one I am not really completely sure about. However one is a variation of fusing. Using another one of Tristar's abilities, Climb Water, he can fuse himself together with his opponent to make his power equal to theirs, but it also reverses the effects of their attacks so that any attack meant to hit Tristar will actually target the opponent while Tristar's fused with them. So I guess it's something like manipulating the opponents abilities and attacks but it's something that can be done only after Tristar fuses with them. There's also Nurzak's Bakugan Sabator who is able to take control of an opponent's ability to use back against them. Sabator even called it him "hijacking" the ability so it's not the same as him bouncing it back for example.

• Can BFR opponents across dimensions with everyday attacks:

-This one is rather interesting and it would come from Code Eve. In an episode of Gundalian Invaders, Code Eve was angered by one of the brawlers' battles and sent out some of her strong energy in the form of a "Dimensional Twister". Anything that gets caught up in this energy twister is sent bouncing between and across dimensions with no way of returning back. Considering all of Code Eve's powers become Drago's, there's no reason why Drago should not be able capable of doing the same thing with his normal attacks like Code Eve can (and incase anyone brings this up, it's obvious PIS that Drago doesnt BFR opponents away, that way not every single Bakugan and their mother get resistance to BFR.)

• Resistance to Matter Manipulation:

-Should be easy. Krakix (Gills Bakugan from one of the 12 orders) is able to destroy his targets (yes even barriers/shields) on a molecular level with his attacks and the brawlers Bakugan are able to survive his attacks (some very easily) without being effected.

• Ability Sealing:

-This should actually should be a definite guarantee despite how OP it sounds. After all, there are dozens of abilities in Bakugan that, unlike just nullifying them, are able to prevent/block other abilities from being activated (Ex: Water Refrain, Jeer Frontier, Ground Freeze, Bleach Out, Hyper Sky Bolt, and so on). Unless this is something else rather than just sealing a power away, Drago should perfectly be able to be granted Ability Sealing.

• Immunity/High Resistance to Purification/Corruption:

-This one should be a given (at least to Perfect Core Drago and maybe Infinity Drago). Once obtaining the 2 core's there shouldn't be anyway Drago can be forcefully turned good/evil. Just as negative energy can't corrupt the Infinity Core, positive energy can't purify the Silent Core for obvious reasons, they are explicitly neutral forces. And the same should apply when both combine to become the Perfect Core.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

Pretty sure Molecule =/= matter, therefore no Matter Manipulation.

Immunity/resistance to Purification/Corruption seems fine imo

Ability Sealing seems alright, I suppose

The BFR thing would just be an addition to the already accepted BFR, so I think it's fine tbh

Dream and Mind manipulation seem fine to me.

Automatic Shielding seems perfectly fine as well, since it is an official statement from what I recall

Invulnerability seems alright as well, I guess (Also it likely wouldn't be very broken even when used against someone in the same tier as Drago since it can simply be ouitright beaten by someone of greater strength, even if it is just by a little bit)

 

[Reppuzan]

1) "Immunity to all abilities" is pushing it. Any sufficiently powerful reality warper should be more than sufficient to penetrate it.

2) Source?

3) According to the Bakugan Wiki, Tristar's abilities only work on BakuNano, meaning auxiliary gear attached to a Bakugan. That's an enormous difference from all attacks.

4) Not sure about this one.

5) Again, sufficiently powerful reality warpers should be more than capable of bypassing such abilities. Furthermore, what kinds of abilities has it shown to nullify. Direct attacks I can imagine. Hax attacks are a no go unless I get proof.

6) Never use the word immunity unless it's actually immunity because it's a very strong word. Just because massive amounts of holy or dark energy can't purify/corrupt the Cores doesn't mean they can't be corrupted, it just means that they are resistant to being corrupted. You really can't expect either core to hold up to something like YHVH or Nurgle.

I also have a quick question. Why does absorbing the DNA of all Bakugan give Drago the powers of all Bakugan again? Is there any statement or feat that proves this?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Basically, what Repp said.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'll get to the other stuff in a min, don't worry.

But first, Drago obtaining the DNA of all Bakugan gives him all Bakugan abilities because of the fact that Code Eve/Sacred Orb is the direct origin of every single Bakugan in existence. Within her powers comes the DNA sequence codes of all bakugan in existence, meaning their characteristics, powers, capabilities, everything that makes them a Bakugan comes from her and whoever obtains her powers would become the most powerful Bakugan in existence. Code Eve is basically the Arceus of Bakugan only instead of the lake/creation trios being originated from Arceus, all bakugan originate from her. And yes there are statements. This is confirmed and explained in a large portion of Gundalian Invaders.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

By that logic we'd give Arceus, Mew, and God every power in their respective worlds.

All of us have DNA strains comparable to other species, but that doesn't mean that we have the same capabilities or functionalities. For example, many of us have similar DNA strains to fish in our brain tissue, but we obviously have much more powerful mental faculties than most fish.

Having all of the DNA strains of Bakugan in existence would not justify giving him every power in existence.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Arceus has all the powers of the Digimon world? Nice! ovo

I'm all seriousness, I agree with Repp. I've been stating this a while ago, ever since Repp set me straight with Arceus.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

This was address before and got countered actually. At least the mew and Arceus part.

Especially for Arceus since unlike Code Eve, the only pokemon who are stated and confirmed to originate from him are the Creation and Lake trios, while all other pokemon orignate from an unknown source. So whether they came from Arceus or somewhere else is entirely speculative. Code Eve on the other hand is stated and confirmed to be the direct origin of ALL bakugan in existence, every single one. There is no reason why all of their characteristics and abilities wouldnt come from her in this case. The same goes for the example you gave on humans and fish as that is something in the same boat as pokemon originating from different sources.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Actually no. Just because they she has her DNA =/= She has their abilities. Say we have God. He has all Digimon DNA and created them all. However, nothing states that they just had these abilities right from the get go. The simple fact is that some Bakugan could have gotten these abilities overtime AFTER their initial creation.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Actually that isnt possible because in the beginning Bakugan only lived as normal creatures as noted in the post. They didnt battle or develop their powers on their own as far as im aware.

Also there's more stuff that supports Code Eve having all bakugan abilities. In Bakugan, having the DNA of other Bakugan would give you their powers. Drago and other Bakugan obtained the 6 soldiers powers when taking their DNA codes through the attribute energies and when coming near the Sacred Orb, a Bakugan's own powers react to Code Eve's. This is shown when Akiwmos, Coredom, Hawktor and Aranaught have their power react to hers just by being close to the orb. If she didnt have their and all bakugan powers this wouldnt be the case. Drago felt a connection too (a more unique one since he's a direct descendant unlike other bakugan).

Also correct me of im wrong but why does having their DNA alone not mean they have their powers. Fiction has showcased that having the DNA of others can grant you their abilities. Despite how he got it, Mew was still given all pokemon DNA and can use their movesets. In Ben 10 when Ben scans an aliens DNA he can replicate their abilities. So how is it different in this case if someone can explain?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

Source this now (I still couldn't find anything that would suggest infinite or immeasurable speed in that link from earlier).

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Mew has the potential to learn them externally, and Ben 10 shapeshifts while using technology. Not the same at all.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Rep

Wait source which? The Code Eve thing or the speed thing? Confused a bit

@Cal

For mew, if that is the case then the same potential would be given for Bakugan. Plus outside game mechanics Mew can transform into any pokemon so unless im missing something that would mean more than potential. And for ben, why does it matter if its through technology? Ben is still applying the DNA he scans from aliens onto himself so that he can use their abilities when shapeshiffting, meaning he is still gaining alien abilities from DNA. How would be that be different from Drago getting a bakugan's abilities from their DNA?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Unlike Mew or Ben, Drago hasn't demonstrated shapeshifting or the external source to do things. Both of them have both of those "requirements"

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

DNA Codes and Speed. Give timers so I don't have to dig through the show to find it.

You can't compare verses like that. The Omnitrix is a super-advanced piece of alien technology that is explicitly designed to use the countless DNA Samples inside to transform the user. That has nothing to do with splicing genetics.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The instant Drago was given Code Eve's powers he immediately transformed into Titanium Drago by evolving. In Bakugan being granted DNA (or DNA Codes) doesnt cause shapeshifting but automatic evolution while still inheirting the powers from the DNA of the bakugan you get it from. Drago obtained the 6 soldiers powers through their dna codes within the attribute energies and immediately evolved into Helix Drago.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

If you have this, then source the episode and time so we can confirm this. Otherwise this is just conjecture.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Alright Rep.

Yes but what makes it different? Unless im mistaken, one is doing it through technology while the other isnt limited to such a thing.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

There's a difference between having the DNA and being able to use it.

Drago might have the DNA, but unless he's explicitly shown to use it, then it shouldn't be assumed that he can. The Omnitrix is a device that morphs the user's DNA into that of another beings because it is designed to do that.

To give you another analogy, we constantly intake the DNA of the plants and animals we eat in our everyday diets. We metabolize them and take them into our bloodstream. That doesn't mean we'll adopt the traits of those animals.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

My fault guys. Internet connection where im at was acting up so I couldn't get on sooner and computer was acting slow. IDK how to do a timestamp when linking vids however I know the timeframe so i'll give you that if its okay.

Here is the episode where they first introduce the sacred orb. It begins at 5:50 onward. When Fabia introuduces them to it, she explains that its a refered object on Neathia and is the origin of all Bakugan. The orb also contains the original DNA codes of every Bakugan in existence (also just noticing that if she has the original DNA codes before any Bakugan were even spawned directly from her, then that also means each bakugan and their characteristcs are just a part of her originating from whatever part of her DNA there is).


After that, Akwimos, Coredem, Aranaugt and Hawktor then glow up as the power within them reacts to the Sacred Orb just by being in its presence, with Akwimos outright and specifically saying that the orb is "the source" and they all begin to specifiy that their power is growing, filling them up inside. Drago then joins in himself saying the same thing but also saying its as if he is connected to the orb and it can sense danger (due to him being a direct descendant). If Code Eve didnt have the same powers as them and all Bakugan in existence, to which they would get their powers from, then she would not have been able to have their own powers react to hers merely by being near her and even fill them up with more power than they've ever felt before. They would have only remained non-reactive and just glance at the orb from a far. The fact they even reacted to her power at all should mean she is the originator of all Bakugan powers and has them herself.

For the speed, I actually explained it a few comments above with me and Drakix discussing it however i'll give the episode where the feat in general comes from so you can see yourself. Its here at 0:43.

Finally, the points on the DNA is very plausible, but we are forgetting that Drago and us humans are not in the same boat. Drago can indeed apply whatever Bakugan DNA he is given to himself. Examples include when he gains the DNA of Apollonir and the other 6 soldiers and evolves based on that DNA, giving him their powers and when he does Mutation with strong enough Bakugan, he can gain and adapt to the traits of whomever he mutates with, which also causes a form of evolutionary transformation to occur to where he even gains their features onto his transformed body and also their abilities. This is showcased in Mechtanium Surge (though if you want examples I'll be happy to supply you some and with sources.) If this wasn't the case, then Drago would only be able to store the DNA inside his body while keeping the same form he's in at each time. The DNA he gets is literally the reason why he's able to evolve to where he's at now, heck his genetics is what even allows him to infinitely evolve at all.

 

[Reppuzan]

1) That still doesn't properly lead into the assumption that Drago, having absorbed the Sacred Orb, would be able to use every power within. I won't dispute that the DNA of every Bakugan is contained within, but just saying that they're glowing and feel great due to the positive energy and DNA within does not mean that they can use individual techniques.

Having the power to generate energy does not equal the power to convert it into something useful.

2) Your link is broken.

3) I also looked up the episode where Apollonir hands Drago his power. He didn't hand him his DNA Code, he handed him his Attribute Energy, rendering that point moot.

Bring up actual evidence.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

1.) Not when their own power is reacting to hers, which should be completely impossible if she didnt have the same abilities they had, energy or not. This isnt merely generating their energy, its having their power react to hers for being the origin of their very existence.

2.) Which is the same as his DNA Code, stated here on Helix Drago's page so yes he did give him his DNA code. All of the ancient soldiers DNA codes are within Drago. Regardless this wouldnt ignore the fact that Drago can still obtain other bakugan's DNA and apply their abilities to himself.

 

[Reppuzan]

1) And that proves... what? All we know is that they reacted to being in the Sacred Orbs presence. That does not tie into your argument that Drago can control every Bakugan power in existence.

2) There's no source for that. Unless you can provide definitive proof that what you're saying is true, then I can't accept this.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

1.) It proves that their powers would come from her being the origin of them, otherwise their wouldnt be any reaction of any kind, they would have only glanced at the orb and remained unaffected by it. And with them even outright saying the sacred orb is "the source", that should solify it even more that their powers originate from her. There's also something else that supports this but i'll leave it alone until its neccesarry.

2.) No source to what if I may ask? Because if its for him taking powers from bakugan DNA, this is outright showcased in Mechtanium Surge. Drago mutates with Helios for example and bot gain each other characteristics which cause their bodies to undergo a mutated evolution (in other words Drago's body gains Helios's traits and appearance with Helios doing the same) and both gain each others abilities combined with their own (literally).

 

[Reppuzan]

1) Again. Being the source =/= being able to utilize the power in the form of techniques. Radioactive isotopes cannot create electrical energy without external equipment. Unless you can definitively prove that Drago is fully capable of turning all of these DNA strands into techniques used by their respective Bakugan, you're just projecting a headcanon.

2) Then provide the episodes to prove your point. You're saying this and that happened, but you've been so stingy with evidence that I can't help but doubt everything you're putting into words. If there is a statement in the anime that Drago received Apollonir's DNA Code AND used Apollonir's ability in a fight, then I will concede.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Here then. 14:07. Perfect example of this

Drago and Helios mutute with each other and upon that happening, both gain eachothers characteristics and traits in the form of a mutated evolution. And because they shared each others traits and DNA, they get each others abilities fused together with their own to use in battle. Therefore, gaining the DNA of other Bakugan and applying it to himself lets Drago have their abilities.

And with the comment "Being the source =/= being able to utilize the power in the form of techniques.", this would only make sense if Code Eve had herself a form to fight with. Which she doesnt. She herself is not a bakugan, she is only an unknown entity with no true physical form that lies inside the sacred orb holding all of the power. Besides which she is a neutral force anyway and would never resort to using her abilities unless it was needed to save others.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

There is no statement that they swapped DNA. They simply exchanged powers in order to morph their bodies into a desired form. Before you twist this, the definition of the word "mutate" is to rapidly change or modify something, it is not always correlated with DNA.

Once more, provide evidence that containing the DNA of all Bakugan would allow Drago to utilize all techniques.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Exchanging powers =/= not obtaining their DNA. They literally gained each others traits and characteristics as evidenced by Drago gaining Helios's body parts and Helios gaining Drago's. You can't gain traits from an entirely different creature from an entirely different species just by exchanging pure abilities so if speculation is to be done, it can be fairly assumed that they were mixing each others DNA as gaining DNA is the only logical way you can obtain someone elses characteristics. Unless theres something that points otherwise, I do not see the issue in this.

EDIT: a more specific definition of Mutation- "the changing of the structure of a gene, resulting in a variant form that may be transmitted to subsequent generations, caused by the alteration of single base units in DNA, or the deletion, insertion, or rearrangement of larger sections of genes or chromosomes"

Based on this, its fairly obvious that Drago and Helios were altering and mixing their DNA to gain each others traits.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Professor

Gaining each others traits, characteristics, and powers does not have to be through obtaining one's DNA.

For instance, MegaMan.EXE adopts the traits of other NetNavis with the Cross System simply by fighting alongside them and learning how they work. Not by taking their data inside his body.

You're making an assumption that is not stated or alluded to in the story (which states that they simply combined their powers). Therefore it is invalid.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im highly certain that is not the same thing. For one, you said it yourself Rep. MegaMan.EXE adopts their traits JUST by fighting alongside them. That is entirely different from Drago and Helios physically and literally fusing parts of their bodies together to gain an entirely different appearance with mixed traits. Thats like saying Majin Buu gains the traits of the Z fighters because he can gain their abilities by seeing them and how they work to use himself when there is absolutely no change to his body or being in any way. Them combining powers is through Mutating and Mutating is an explict change in DNA.

Added with the fact that we are comparing a Navi, who is nothing but pure data, to breathing living Bakugan that naturally have the capability and do not use it through fighting alongside others. How would gaining traits from fighting with others even be the same as what those 2 did?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

Majin Buu absorbed the Z-Fighters, but it is never stated that he absorbed their DNA. Therefore this example is horrifically flawed.

Want another example? Neito Monoma from My Hero Academia has the ability to copy any other superpower used by those he touches for five minutes, including gaining the physical traits of the abilities involved. Under no circumstances is it ever mentioned that his DNA is being affected by this ability.

So again, gaining the physical traits of someone does not imply in any way that they adopted each others' DNA. You're leaping to the nearest possible assumption without any concrete or tangible evidence in an attempt to back an argument.

So far I haven't seen a lick of evidence to back any of your points about the use of the Sacred Orb.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You do know Majin Buu can gain peoples powers without doing that right? He did this when fighting against SSJ3 Goku so I wasnt even referring to his absorbtion at all.

Hmm. Thats alot better but again, it is a step back from what Bakugan can do via Mutation. Key part: Neito touches them and gains their powers. Drago and Helios get the same result when actually fusing and mixing each others bodies (and the fact that its explicty called Mutation should be considered here). The latter strongly implies DNA Alteration while the other does not in the slightest. It can easily be chalked to Neito absorbing or copying their power to use himself and if it did have anything to do with gaining his targets DNA we'd be given implications of their bodies being altered. Added with the fact that he can only take one ability at a time while Drago and Helios get the full package, implying even more that Neito's ability has nothing to do with DNA.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

Why do you assume physical contact = exchange of DNA?

In addition, they only stated that they combined. Not that their DNA was exchanged.

Even if this was the case (which is again, not alluded to in any way by the narrative or the story in the scene shown), can you provide any other evidence that DNA is tied to a Bakugan's abilities?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I am with Reppuzan here 100%.

Kukui's arguments and assumptions frankly hold little ground.

 

[Phoenix821]

Bakugan abilites also seem to be tied to the perfect core.

When Drago gained the inifity core he said he had no ability limits, and could use other abilities.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Phoenix

A lot of people feel like they can do anything when they're hooked up to a source of immense power.

Regardless, you need to cite this.

 

[Phoenix821]

This episode at 16:30 is when he said it. He then started using abilities form other atributes.