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Massive Drago Hax/Speed Revisions

Yeah it is. But Immeasurable isnt out of the question yet as we need to confirm whether or not Code Eve and the Original Drago's voids lie outside of Space-Time or not. If they do, Immeasurable speed is possible. But if not, Infinite is what we're going for.

However atm we still need to discuss the Regen topic to see where that will go.
 
Now to try and speed this up a bit, concerning the Regen thats being mostly discussed right now. The only logical explanations as to how Helios and Spectra came back from Interspaces deletion is either they Regenerated from it or as pointed out they have Resistance, which is also somewhat faulty to claim but its logical. The things they definitely didnt do was tank it and teleport out of it.
 
To be honest, we've seen Helios with installed systems allowing for incredible regen in battle even after sustaining major damage, even when that damage was of mechanical parts missing from his body or something else of that nature... However, these spurts of regen are, from what I can recall, only ever activated via an ability card of some sort. Since we didn't see Spectra activate any sort of ability before the flash, I would assume they survived not because they regened from it, but because they were able to resist the properties of the deletion module.

I am in favor of resistance to existancce erasure.
 
Yes but the problem I have with just resistance is if they resisted it, then why don't we see them left behind in the deleted space Interspace used to be? If you go back to the scene where Interspace vanishes there isnt anything left. Everyone and everything within Interspace, including Interspace itself, is completely erased. The monitors and computers in Marucho's lab even show that theres nothing left from their blank screens. If they were able to resist existence erasure (but to be more specific deletion since this erasure is in computing terms) we would have seen some signal or trace of them left behind in the system, especially since Spectra and Helios can't travel across dimensions with their own power they need Vestal tech in order to do that.

And to be quite honest here, even with Helios's evolved abilities, there shouldnt be any logical reason why he'd get resistance to something on such a high level. For one, Infinity Helios is the only form of Helios thats even tier 2. We're talking about a Bakugan who jumped to Tier 2 from, what, Tier 5 at best? Secondly, this erasure wasnt just a normal existence erasure. This was specifically Deletion. And as we all know, to go into Interspace you are converting yourself into pure data. As said data, there shouldnt be any reason why both would be harder to delete than anything else left inside when all data is to be deleted and is easily deletable and the program itself was extremely massive as Marucho claimed. If this was normal existence erasure I could see resistance making sense. Finally, we also have to consider that this isnt the first time this has happened. Interspace was on the brink of being deleted before in S2 with Helios and Spectra left inside but unlike here, both were completely determined to leave in any way possible to prevent themselves from being deleted. I find it very hard to believe both could find a way to gain resistance to a specific form of erasure they've only encountered twice when they've only been inside Interspace very few times in the whole series, battling at even less times.

Also, Helios's regen doesn't need an ability card to be activated. Its been established that living Bakugan are able to use their own abilities without the need of a brawler in the series (as the ladder is game mechanics) and Helios is no different even when obtaining mechanical parts as his living parts are still very dominant and he's used abilities as part mechanical before. Even ignoring this point, Infinity Helios's regen, FARBAS Infinity, is activated the instant Helios is harmed at all. Considering his regen works even when he's pure data inside Interspace, it'd make sense to consider his regen over a kind of resistance when being deleted as said data.
 
Alrighty. We'll need Dragon's imput at least but as long as he is fine with it and no one else has better options, it looks like High-Godly Regen is acceptable.
 
Wow. That was......easy xD

Okay. Lets move on to the other stuff finally. For Casuality Manip, im still not sure if Tentaclears ability is really a healing ability since it was never refered to as one. And then theres what Wavern did to the broken vase.
 
Can you link what happened with the vase and tentaclear's ability? Pretty sure the vase could easily be chalked up to some kind of restoration ability tbh
 
GimmyJibbsJr said:
Can you link what happened with the vase and tentaclear's ability? Pretty sure the vase could easily be chalked up to some kind of restoration ability tbh
Click to expand...
The links are in the Casualty Manipulation part of the thread with the timeframe specified too so you can skip around.

Im not too sure on restoration but it's better if taking a look back at it first can give better perspective.
 
The one with Wavern I am almost convinced is Restoration, since we simply see the vase put itself back together much the same way Josuke fixes stuff in Jojo's. It's likely that this is NOT a case of Causality manipulation.

The next with Tentaclear, we see Julio use the ability and then Skyress starts to wake up again from what seems to be unconsciousness. We don't see her injuries vanish instantly like they would have if this was actually causality manipulation, but instead we see her bruises stick around for several seconds. This one is slightly harder to explain, but I honestly don't believe that either are Causality Manipulation.
 
Hmm. IIRC isnt Restoration just a healing hax? I could see it for why the vase was back together but then theres the split water that seemingly got reversed in a second.

Tentaclears is harder to explain yes. The inuiries remaining for a few seconds does sound confusing but this shouldnt be a healing hax as Julio specifically describes it as a move that nullifies the opponents ability.
 
Hmm. Well if that is true then I suppose the vase thing is just restoration in the end. But what would Tentaclears ability be chalked up to? It being Casuality manip is debatable at this point but its definitely not healing.
 
Also should be noted that Skyress already has ressurection and similar powers in nature to Falconeer. Could be that she died or just naturally restored herself, and that she was only able to do that once Tentaclear got rid of the ability that was causing her harm.
 
GimmyJibbsJr said:
Also should be noted that Skyress already has ressurection and similar powers in nature to Falconeer. Could be that she died or just naturally restored herself, and that she was only able to do that once Tentaclear got rid of the ability that was causing her harm.
Click to expand...
Hmm.....thats interesting........well from what I see in the episode, Hairadee trapped Skyress in some cage that prevented her from activating any abilities to get out and he was attacking her while she was trapped, which is likely why she was on the brink of death. Tho since the cage has nullifying effects its possible it just prevented her from using her ressurection.

EDIT: Yeah thought about it and agreed this sadly doesnt yield Casualty Manip. The closest thing we got to it as Atomic Brave which is a different discussion entirely. So im removing this suggestion from the thread as it wont work.
 
Alright. Next is the matter of Immeasurable Speed.

This solely depends on whether or not Code Eve and the Original Drago exist outside of Space-Time, which would give the result of immeasurable speed, or not, resulting in Infinite Speed instead. As far as Code Eve goes, I beleive its logical to assume she exists outside Space-Time. For one, her void is unreachable by any means from anyone in the verse unless she personally summons them to her domain, like Dan. Drago, Dharak and Barodius for example. No one was even aware of her existence until she revealed herself personally to those 4 as they only knew her as the "immense power" within the Sacred Orb. Secondly, Code Eve's purpose of taking them to her void was so that Drago and Dharak could have their final battle without threatening the verse like their ancestors did as since Drago and Dharak are their direct descendants, they naturally obtained their power and genetics, creating the strong possibility of them splitting the dimensions again like before. If her void wasnt outside the verse's space-time, then their battle would cause the very results Code Eve tried preventing to happen to everyone no matter where they fought in the Bakugan verse. The only place where they could have their final battle without endangering everyone would be outside space-time so everyone would remain safe and the war would finally end.
 
@Kukui

Would you mind citing where you got these assertions for Immeasurable speed?

It's entirely possible to live in an entirely separate pocket dimension without being outside of space and time.
 
My fault I forgot about this. Here's the episode and you can find the assertions from the beginning onward. Most of the episode is just Drago and Dharak's fighting.

And yes it is possible but what makes me conclude it being outside Space-Time is that Code Eve wouldnt have them battle within any point in Space-Time as their battle greatly threatens the dimensions of the Bakugan Verse like their ancestors did, resulting in massive destruction for everyone. In other words, no matter what dimension she places them in, if its within Space-Time then innocent people and Bakugan would be threatend. To prevent that, she brought them to her domain, or the "Middle Dimension" so that they could battle without endangering "innocence".
 
Also my fault everyone, there is a few more notable hax abilities I didnt realize to add at the last minute so when we get the speed out of the way I'll bring them up.
 
Kk good. I actually found more stuff to support Info manip too.

For one, Bakugan (Drago included) are able to turn themselves into pure data without needing to log-in through accesspoints. Drago for example can open a dimensional portal from anywhere directly into B.I., a virtual dimension that requires you to become pure data in order to enter.

Second, Aranaught, Akwimos, Coredem and Hawktor have the ability to create virtual avatar clones of themselves that gain all the information of anything that defeats them.
 
I don't know, it seems kind of radical to give Drago infinite Speed/Immeasurable speed on the assumption that the dimention was outside of Space-Time without any confirmation. It said it was a middle dimention made by Code Eve but didn't have any confirmation about it. I don't know much about Space-time sorry, but surely if that was the case they would be back in an instant after their match was done - and they would be there when Lienhalt used his forbidden power. And if you look at 14:25 of that clip, the others had known Dan and Borodius were there and they knew they had a battle. Which suggests time was moving and that they had time to wait and recover.

P.S Im new to this haha, so if I get it wrong Im sorry :p
 
My bad I didnt see this lol.

Hmm. Some of this makes sense but some of it can be explained. They knew Dan/Drago and Barodius/Dharak were battling somewhere else because Code Eve teleported them away right in front of everyone. Dan/Barodius were about to fight infront of the Queen but they were teleported away before Barodius could harm her. Drago and Dharak were about to fight in front of everyone too but they got teleported away. Also would going outside space-time and back into it really be instant? It's not like they just stayed there for a moment they had an entire battle in the middle dimension.

Though if time really did seem to exist in the middle dimension then im fine with Immeasurable Speed being a no-go. Infinite however wouldnt come from this, its from another feat.
 
Yeah, Like I said I don't know much about it, but if they were in a dimention outside of Space-Time, then time would no longer exist there. There would be no time. So the usual "Speed = Distance/Time" would no longer be valid because they move all the distances in no time. So from the outside world where time was moving, the movements would be instant because they were unaffected by time whereas everyone else was. So, Lienhalt using his forbidden power and others walking into the room wouldn't be possible because Dan/Drago and Barodius/Dharak would be back the moment they started the field.

Weird thing is - In the original Series one of Bakugan, whenever they openned a field, time stopped on the outside world. That's a different debate though haha.

Sorry, Could you remind me what the infinite speed came from?

Again, sorry if I make mistakes haha, Im new to this.
 
Actually just remembered there is still the matter of Genesis Dragos void being outside space-time or not. But unlike with Code Eve, Drago and Dan get teleported in, speak with G.D., and then get teleported out instantly with no one being aware of what happened. What can we make of that? (btw Drakelix if you want to see it for yourself its the very last episode of Bakugan, around 11:22).

And the Infinite Speed would be coming from Drago and Razenoid fighting in the Dark-Reverse dimension of earth where time is seemingly stopped due to everyone and everything Mag-Mel teleported there being frozen and then when they're brought back everything resumes without them being aware of what happened.
 
I don't know. It looked more to me like a telepathy ability more so than teleportation. If you look at 12:50 of the last episode, Dan gets up from lying down in rubble (Rubble comes falling off) whereas just before that he was standing up in the "Dimention" he was teleported to. So, it has some implications that Dan and Drago saw it in their heads while unconscious and then woke up back to how they were before. Unless they were teleported back in a lying down position with some rubble placed on them or something..

As for the infinite speed feat - Are we sure that time had stopped completely? When Dan/Drago fought Mag-mel/Razenoid in the Dark-Reversed Dimention of Bakugan interspace, Shun/Marucho and the others had to defend him because he was unconscious in the real world. So, time was still flowing in the real world.

Ill need to rewatch the episode, but its possible that it was just the DR dimention that had its time stopped and not all time. It could sort of be compared with the Dragon Ball super fight of Goku vs Hit. Hit stopped time completely during time-skip, but goku was able to move due to being stronger than the ability - So in this case, its possible that Mag-mel has a crazy time-stopping ability and Dan/Drago weren't affected because they were superior to it.

So yeah, if time stopped completely, then it might count for infinite speed. If not, Mag-mel/Razenoid get time-manipulation ability. Either way its a good upgrade.
 
It was definitely not telepathy. Dan and Drago before were inside Dragonoid Destroyer as they were destroying Mechtavius Destroyer and then a moment later after speaking to G.D. they were on the ground on that little island which was far away from them (Dragonoid Destroyer was a distance away floating over the ocean). There's no way Dan and Drago would be placed like that if it was just in their heads, especially since Drago comes back in ball form.

And could you clarify a bit more please? Because im sort of confused. Time was stopped in the dimension they were fighting in, the DR dimension. Why does time need to be stopped everywhere (even outside the dimension) for it to work? And time stopping is not Mag-Mel's doing as its a phenomina within all DR dimensions Mag-Mel only teleported the people into the dimension which froze everything in place and everything started moving again when teleported out. In other words, when teleported into the dimension they are frozen in place as time is stopped there. But when teleported out into the normal dimension time is moving. DR dimensions are opposite worlds. And even if it was Mag-Mels power, Dan and Drago at the time wouldnt resist it since they were weaker than Razenoid who recently evolved. They only became superior once Drago evolved to Fusion Drago.
 
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