Massive Astral Chain CRT

[Keeweed]

The natural process of the Astral Plane dragging Earth into it is called redshift. Noah is not the embodiment of redshift, he is the embodiment of the astral plane.

I’m probably going to explain my point poorly here, but:
Redshifting being the process the plane uses to consume earth makes it more likely that Noah is a representation of the plane rather than actually being the plane because Noah only goal is stated to be Redshifting the planet into the Astral Plane.

The Astral plane is trying to Redshifting Earth into itself (though a natural process), Noah has the ability to do that and the desire to do that.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

That still doesn't answer as to what else "embodiment of the astral plane" could mean. Now you're trying to state that Noah is the embodiment of the natural process of the Earth (called redshift) which is not stated. Noah wants to, and can cause redshift, but that doesn't make him the embodiment of it.

 

[Keeweed]

Let me rephrase my point. I’m saying embodiment in a metaphorical sense. I don’t think it truly embodies the Astral Plane Noah represents the plane, for example, like how the paragons represent their concepts.

Noah embodying the Redshift or Astral Plane rely on it actually being the true embodiment of them, but it doesn’t do that. Noah ‘embodies’ the plane because it is shifting Earth into the Astral Plane, it’s doing the Plane’s natural process of storage.

Even if Noah did truly embody the plane as far I’m aware that isn’t a feat. Characters like Algol and others scale to what they embody because they have control over it (Algol controls the Astral Chaos and Alduin both embodies (the end of time) and consumes time for example). Noah doesn’t have any statements of having power over what it embodies and it stated to just be redshifting the Earth, something that is environmental destruction.

Finally Noah could truly be an embodiment of the plane and have the power of the plane, but only have that power through environmental destruction.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Your rephrase still doesn't answer the question. Also, If Noah did truly embody the plane it would most definitely be a feat. If Noah is the true embodiment of the plane he would have dura comparable to it. Legionis can harm regular Noah Prime and berserk Noah Prime can harm Legionis. It would most definitely be a feat.

 

[Keeweed]

No he wouldn’t have durability comparable to it because he would actually need to be the plane itself in order to have that. Noah isn’t literally the Astral Plane, which he would need to be to be a true embodiment of it. Alduin for example is actually the end of time and he showcases the ability to end time. Algol is repeatedly stated to have power over the Astral Chaos and can bend it to his will.
Noah doesn’t do anything like this and is instead bring Earth to the Astral Plane. If Noah was the Astral Plane Earth would be going to him but it’s not, Noah is shifting it to the Plane. Noah is clearly different from the plane itself and they are treated as separate things. Ignoring how Noah’s statement is a vague and off hand as an embodiment statement can get.

At the very best Noah could possibly scale to the plane, but I think that is being way too generous. I have to do some school work soon, so I’ll be back later, sorry if I came off as rude during any point of this thread.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Truly embodying something would mean he is the plane itself, but condensed. So yes he would have dura comparable to the plane. Also, during Jena's monologue she was referring to the gradual gate openings across the globe that lead to the creation of the ark, not the direct process of redshift. If Noah's redshift was environmental destruction then he would have no purpose of existing, because the Astral Plane was already doing that to begin with. Why have something exist purely to do something that's already being done? Redshift itself is a quick process caused within seconds of the presence of a gate or chimeras. Jena saying "bit-by-bit" was referring to the gate openings across the globe, not directly the process itself. The natural cycle is done through gate openings which is environmental destruction. Nothing in Noah's database implies that it was going to redshift the earth through the same process that was already happening. It just straight up says Noah exists only to redshift the entire earth.

 

[Parzival-Bo]

Also, another detail from File 12: After Noah goes down, the gate appearances decreased a TON. They don't completely stop, but clearly beating down Noah had an effect on the Astral Plane, meaning Legionis directly affected the Astral Plane in some way, through Noah. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Hop is not familiar with this. Thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the summarised conclusions so far here?

 

[Keeweed]

I have an exam today and tomorrow, so I’m not sure when I’m going to be able to respond. I may have time later today, but I’m not sure.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

It's pretty much a disagreement between what the database means by "embodiment" and how the dialogue, events, and the database of the game support either side.

 

[Parzival-Bo]

Most everything else here apart from Noah Prime seems to be generally agreed upon though. Although my Class M calc hasn't been verified yet.

 

[Keeweed]

I finally have an hour or two to talk about this. I also disagree with the 7-B keys. In chapter 6 it was stated that blue evolve was the cause of the storm at the end of the chapter (or at least the drastic increase in the storm’s violence). This means the storms are definitely environmental destruction rather than something the Chimera physically scale too, since even a drug increasing the corruption rate causes these storms.

 

[Parzival-Bo]

Jena directly used Blue Evolve to reach her later stages so she'd still most likely scale. I think the logic holds, personal bias nonwithstanding.

 

[Keeweed]

But my point is that blue evolve itself can cause these storms. It isn’t anyone’s strength or power when the corruption alone from blue evolve can cause the storms. Considering blue evolve was also shifting the city into the Astral Plane the storms are most likely caused by the shifting and corruption (I’m pretty sure Jena said the corruption is just the shifting effecting things), so Jena shouldn’t scale to it physically since it’s just a byproduct of the merger of the Astral Plane and Earth.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

We don't know that blue evolve caused the storm. That was mere speculation from hal. If anything it could've been the homunculus that caused the increase in violence. We see burst of purple electricity (a trait common with homunculi) just before we begin to see the sky turn Astral Plane-like and the storm worsen.

 

[Keeweed]

I’ve heard in multiple writings classes that unless the point of the scene is for the character to be wrong you don’t have a character randomly speculate with no true answer ever revealed. The entire plot of that file revolved around blue evolve and Hal had been trying to learn as much as he could about blue evolve in that file.

It wasn’t even speculation, he said it in a nervous tone because he was terrified about what was happening, not because he was pulling an answer out of nowhere.

Everything in the file points to it being blue evolve which caused the storm, and nobody scales if it did since that is clean cut environmental destruction.

Edit: I just rechecked the scene, the lightning also wasn’t purple.

 

[Parzival-Bo]

Yeah, it's File 9 the lightning is purple. Possibly Jena's doing, since it's during her fight.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Douglas had 2 cases of blue evolve that we know of. 1 was given to the hermits. Douglas, with his last case was then kidnapped by chimeras. The case was the faulty blue evolve and completely full. By the point that Legionis returned to the Ark with Douglas the storm was already there because of high chimeric activity. The hermits then take the faulty blue evolve and the storm worsens. The Blue Evolve didn't cause the storm but it possibly contribute to worsening it.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Edit: I just rechecked the scene, the lightning also wasn’t purple.

I'm not referring to the lightning of the storm, I'm referring to the explosion coated in purple electricity we see in the distance that causes the storm to turn even more violent right away and the sky to turn astral plane-like, a few seconds after we see it.

 

[Keeweed]

The sky was already turning more violent way before that purple lightning. The storm was a light drizzle when the scene started and it becomes intense with a much more violent storm and lightning the very second the thugs are transformed from blue evolve. I even watch the scene repeatedly before and after the purple lightning and the storm was just as rough before as it was after the strike.

Edit: I’m referring to file 6

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

A light rain storm that covers the entirety of the sky would still count for low 7-B.

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah but it would be environmental destruction since there isn’t a reason for to scale to the Chimera and a reason why they shouldn’t scale. The storms intensity is drastically increased because a drug starts spread the Astral Plane’s corruption (which is just Earth shifting back into the Astral Plane). I mentioned a while ago (near the beginning of the thread but worded much differently) and I’ll say it again. This isn’t the characters creating the storm, it’s the corruption these characters bring with them that cause the storm. Storm feats are very case by case and the reason characters like Cinderfall and the Saltborn scale is because they are specifically stated to have great power due to being able to make these storms (in the Saltborn’s case he scales to someone else who is stated to have power, but that person doesn’t have a profile). Meanwhile the Chimaera have a large chance of not even being the reason for the storm. They instead are spreading the ‘corruption’ causing the world to shift into the Astral Plane, with one of the side effects of this shift being storms.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the summarised conclusions here?

 

[Parzival-Bo]

Nothing overly conclusive since yesterday, it's mostly just been Keeweed and Shadow butting heads on whether the storm feats count. Which is fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion. Alternately, a staff member can use the @Username notification system.

 

[Parzival-Bo]

Fair enough. See ya, Ant.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.

 

[Keeweed]

I have a exam and project due soon. Once they are done I’ll rewatch or replay Astral Chain. Sorry for not being able to respond much right now.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I hate to revive this thread but I'm proposing a compromise. Until we gather enough info to solidify the proposed AP tierings I'm offering a middle ground so this verse can at least get on its feet.

Since the verse's tier 7 feats are questionable the new tiering for the tier 7's will be changed to...

High 8-C (via Homunculus alpha's blast destroying a skyscraper), possibly Low 7-B

Since Noah's embodiment feat is also questioned and the current High 6-A rating is believed to be invalid my proposal for the verse top tiers is as follows:

At least High 8-C, possibly 5-B, Higher in legion fusion (for Akira and the Legionis).

What do you say @Keeweed?

 

[Parzival-Bo]

I approve of this for now.

 

[Keeweed]

I hate to revive this thread but I'm proposing a compromise. Until we gather enough info to solidify the proposed AP tierings I'm offering a middle ground so this verse can at least get on its feet.

Since the verse's tier 7 feats are questionable the new tiering for the tier 7's will be changed to...

High 8-C (via Homunculus alpha's blast destroying a skyscraper), possibly Low 7-B

Since Noah's embodiment feat is also questioned and the current High 6-A rating is believed to be invalid my proposal for the verse top tiers is as follows:

At least High 8-C, possibly 5-B, Higher in legion fusion (for Akira and the Legionis).

What do you say @Keeweed?

I’m at work right now (so I can’t comment much), but I’m perfectly fine with a compromise like that.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I'll wait a few days to see if there are any objections before I begin the revisions and additions.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Since there doesn't seem to be any objections, I'll begin the compromised revisions

 

[Antvasima]

Are there any calculations to base these statistics on?

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

The lifting strength calc hasn't been approved yet and will not be added until we can get that approved. High 8-C needs a calc so I will wait on putting that. Everything else already has an approved calc and has characters scaling to it or comes from statements such as the astral plane being significantly larger than earth in size and most likely infinite.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the reply.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I've made the revisions to Legionis and added pages for the verse itself and Yoseph so far. I'll make the other profiles when I have more time, but if anyone else wants to add them feel free.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I may look over all this later.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I've made profiles for Yoseph, Jena, and Noah as well as a page for the verse. I still have profiles for Akira and Homunculus to make, which I apologize for the delay as I've been busy with stuff regarding other verses as well as my own IRL stuff, but I do hope to get those profiles done sometime this week.