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We currently accept the astral body as being basically the container for the mind & soul, this isn't the case. There is some nuance that I will explain.
It was indeed stated that astral body holds the soul
Here it is said that the astral body is connected to the soul and consciousness, and btw that the ethereal body is the blueprint for the physical body, this was accepted as Information Type 2, a while ago.
Back to the topic of the astral body, it is stated that it is the glue which binds together the mind and soul
It also says here that someone who is unconscious can't be affected by an astral attack, this is obvious why, to get to the astral body would require going through the mind, I will add some more points to this.
Dark Magic in the isekai world uses thoughts to damage the astral body
This proves you can use consciousness, in this case thoughts, to affect the astral body, obviously since they are connected
It is also shown that Dark Magic can affect the soul
This proves again thoughts can reach the soul, however in this case it's clear you need a large amount of it to achieve that, but it again proves the point that since all of these parts of the body are connected, you can use one to attack the other.
Each part of the body influences another, when the physical body felt fatigue, the consciousness and the soul weakens. When the astral body was damaged, the physical body was also weakened. When there were alterations to the ethereal body, it produced changes in the physical and even astral body
It should be noted that one part of the body weakening the other, doesn't mean if you destroy one you destroy the other, even fatal physical wounds won't destroy the soul
Here it is stated that the astral body is the cradle of the soul, pairing this with what I first posted here that says the astral body holds the soul, I think it's fair to conclude a few things; the astral body contains the soul, but not consciousness, however it is connected to it. To get to the astral body, you have to first go through the consciousness, and then from there you can also get to the soul.
So I think there are 3 layers, the first being the mind, then the astral body then the soul. If you perform an astral attack, you necessarily have to also attack the mind. If you successfully attacked the soul, you had to have attacked the mind, and astral body. Also as I posted, altering the ethereal body which is information type 2, affects both the physical body and even astral body. So performing an ethereal attack will affect everything from the mind to soul, so really I think there are essential 4 layers to the non-physical body.
So in terms of changes, anyone who has or resists astral attacks with no mention of the soul being affected should just have mind manipulation or resistance to it. The astral body contains and connects the mind to soul, but I don't see any proof that damaging it would automatically damage the soul, in fact one of the quotes I posted mentions Suimei speculating on an astral attack which was effective on the soul, which wouldn't make sense if every astral attack automatically reached the soul.
Here comes the main part of this thread, Suimei currently has Low-Godly resurrection due to resurrecting after his physical and astral body were destroyed (Volume 10, Epilogue), however it's stated he did this by analyzing the vast records of his ether body, so his resurrection is reliant on his ether body still existing, which again is type 2 information, so it's fairly obviously what the conclusion is from this, as long as his ether body isn't destroyed he will resurrect, so he should be able to come back from his mind & soul being destroyed, Suimei should get Mid-Godly resurrection.
It was indeed stated that astral body holds the soul
“Exactly right, Menia. The ethereal body is indeed related to those. The ethereal body, physical body, and astral body are considered the three pillars that comprise all living beings. In short, what we know as the human body is actually all three taken together. When one part of that—one of the three bodies—is damaged, the human in question loses its equilibrium and suffers for it.” “Then the physical body is of course the material manifestation that is a human, the astral body is connected to the consciousness and the soul, and the ethereal body is...” “You could say the ethereal body is the spiritual portion, but phrasing it like that, it’s easily confused with the astral body which holds the soul. So instead, let’s see... Roughly speaking, the ethereal body is like a blueprint for the physical body.” “A blueprint for the physical body?” “Yup. It’s different from DNA, but mystically speaking, it’s functionally similar. Every organ and feature of the human body is created based on the blueprint of the ethereal body. It’s the origin of the physical form, which is always influenced by it. It’s not something you can capture an image of or see with magicka, but just like the physical body, there exists an ethereal heart, an ethereal brain, ethereal arms, legs, et cetera.” “It... exists? If it is a blueprint, then after the physical body is made, isn’t it no longer necessary?”
“Certainly the nuance of the world ‘blueprint’ would imply that, but... In truth, it’s like an operational manual for the human body, as well as a map. The ethereal body is such that the human body always seeks to mirror it...” “Wh-What...?” “Sorry, that’s not the point here. What I’m trying to say is that while the ethereal body is a blueprint for the physical body, once that job is complete, it additionally functions like a set of instructions for operating the physical body.” “I see. That much I can understand.”-Volume 7, Chapter
“Certainly the nuance of the world ‘blueprint’ would imply that, but... In truth, it’s like an operational manual for the human body, as well as a map. The ethereal body is such that the human body always seeks to mirror it...” “Wh-What...?” “Sorry, that’s not the point here. What I’m trying to say is that while the ethereal body is a blueprint for the physical body, once that job is complete, it additionally functions like a set of instructions for operating the physical body.” “I see. That much I can understand.”-Volume 7, Chapter
Here it is said that the astral body is connected to the soul and consciousness, and btw that the ethereal body is the blueprint for the physical body, this was accepted as Information Type 2, a while ago.
Back to the topic of the astral body, it is stated that it is the glue which binds together the mind and soul
“Liliana, stop that.”
“Why? If something... has possessed Mizuki... won’t this drive it out?”
“No, it’s probably useless. Give it up.”
“Fine... I understand.”
Hearing his words, Liliana lowered her arm despondently. Meanwhile, Reiji and Titania simply looked like they had no idea what was going on.
Astral Shooter was the technique Suimei had taught Liliana to extend her own astral body to attack an opponent’s. It manifested a physical effect by making use of the connection between the physical and astral body. The astral body referred to the shell that enveloped a being spiritually. To put it roughly, it was the glue that bound together the things known as the soul and the consciousness. And since consciousness was part of the astral body, astral attacks weren’t as effective against targets who’d fainted or were asleep.
And presently, Mizuki wasn’t conscious either, meaning she was in a state in which an astral attack wouldn’t reach her. But the astral body of the thing possessing Mizuki was connected to her body right now, so it should still affect Io Kuzami. Liliana’s aim was likely to use her Astral Shooter to take decisive action against it and, if circumstances permitted, pull it out and urge Mizuki’s mind to reawaken. Little did she know it was effectively impossible to wake someone from an out of body experience. However, because the proprietor of the outer layer of the consciousness was not the soul, the astral body and physical body were not so firmly connected that it would be impossible to remove something that had become attached in the wrong place.
Such a high-handed method would be befitting of exorcism, which was likely the approach Liliana had taken. But even if she did it and succeeded, it would only purge rather than erase the thing possessing Mizuki. And without anything to defend Mizuki, it could simply just possess her all over again. If Suimei at least knew its real name, he would be able to bind it and obstruct any attempts at repossession, but...-Volume 7, Chapter 1
“Why? If something... has possessed Mizuki... won’t this drive it out?”
“No, it’s probably useless. Give it up.”
“Fine... I understand.”
Hearing his words, Liliana lowered her arm despondently. Meanwhile, Reiji and Titania simply looked like they had no idea what was going on.
Astral Shooter was the technique Suimei had taught Liliana to extend her own astral body to attack an opponent’s. It manifested a physical effect by making use of the connection between the physical and astral body. The astral body referred to the shell that enveloped a being spiritually. To put it roughly, it was the glue that bound together the things known as the soul and the consciousness. And since consciousness was part of the astral body, astral attacks weren’t as effective against targets who’d fainted or were asleep.
And presently, Mizuki wasn’t conscious either, meaning she was in a state in which an astral attack wouldn’t reach her. But the astral body of the thing possessing Mizuki was connected to her body right now, so it should still affect Io Kuzami. Liliana’s aim was likely to use her Astral Shooter to take decisive action against it and, if circumstances permitted, pull it out and urge Mizuki’s mind to reawaken. Little did she know it was effectively impossible to wake someone from an out of body experience. However, because the proprietor of the outer layer of the consciousness was not the soul, the astral body and physical body were not so firmly connected that it would be impossible to remove something that had become attached in the wrong place.
Such a high-handed method would be befitting of exorcism, which was likely the approach Liliana had taken. But even if she did it and succeeded, it would only purge rather than erase the thing possessing Mizuki. And without anything to defend Mizuki, it could simply just possess her all over again. If Suimei at least knew its real name, he would be able to bind it and obstruct any attempts at repossession, but...-Volume 7, Chapter 1
It also says here that someone who is unconscious can't be affected by an astral attack, this is obvious why, to get to the astral body would require going through the mind, I will add some more points to this.
Dark Magic in the isekai world uses thoughts to damage the astral body
When I first ate that thing, I generally had a rough idea of what it was. There aren’t all that many things that can directly and seriously affect the astral body, after all. Mysteries caused by wielding the power of wicked gods using Goetia. Suicide attacks carried out by demonomists devoted to their faith. Intrinsic curses. Hexes. The attacks of apparitions. And out of all the possibilities, the one considered to be the most antiquated technique is the one that uses thoughts of hate, resentment, and envy towards the target to directly strike at them. It’s so simple that it doesn’t even require a spell, but those hateful thoughts are powerful, and their effects were observed by many in ancient indigenous faiths.” “What... kind of relation are you saying that has... with the power that I use?!” “Are you listening? The thing called the ‘Element of darkness’ doesn’t exist. Just as stated in the saying ‘the hatred and resentment harbored by man becomes a curse and causes a real effect on the body,’ the overflowing curse of hatred that has nowhere to go in the transient world ends up coagulating in the astral plane.” The oldest form of a curse. That is, namely, a mass of hatred harbored by people, beings, animals, and the like. Since hatred existed everywhere, it could be used as an attack as long as there was a target to receive the emotion. This was why the rampart of the golden fortress was penetrated. Ramparts were ramparts. They were defensive walls, but they offered no protection from thoughts. If it had been weak magic, then the spell inserted into it would be defended against, and the curse would be dealt with by his natural resistance as a magician.-Volume 3, Chapter 4
This proves you can use consciousness, in this case thoughts, to affect the astral body, obviously since they are connected
It is also shown that Dark Magic can affect the soul
“Stop it! Don’t take in the darkness on your own, damn it!”
A massive amount of malice burst out from her feet, and Liliana was sucking it all up. In an attempt to save her, Suimei ran forth with no concern for his own wellbeing.
“Guuu-AAAAAAAAAAAH!”
Perhaps having been brought back to her senses by Suimei’s shriek of anguish, Liliana’s eye shot wide open.
“Wh-What are you...”
“Don’t take it in... You can’t. That path... isn’t one you should walk down...”
“S-Stop it. If you get closer, even you will be...!”
Darkness, curses, and malice seeped into Suimei’s body. It was a strong and concentrated power that could not even be compared to the dark magic that Liliana had used on him. It was apparent that if he didn’t steel his mind, even his soul would be desecrated. But this was a race against time. He didn’t have time to postpone any actions as he began chanting for defenses from the moon. Even as Liliana screamed for him to save himself, Suimei continued to try to help her.-Volume 3, Chapter 4
A massive amount of malice burst out from her feet, and Liliana was sucking it all up. In an attempt to save her, Suimei ran forth with no concern for his own wellbeing.
“Guuu-AAAAAAAAAAAH!”
Perhaps having been brought back to her senses by Suimei’s shriek of anguish, Liliana’s eye shot wide open.
“Wh-What are you...”
“Don’t take it in... You can’t. That path... isn’t one you should walk down...”
“S-Stop it. If you get closer, even you will be...!”
Darkness, curses, and malice seeped into Suimei’s body. It was a strong and concentrated power that could not even be compared to the dark magic that Liliana had used on him. It was apparent that if he didn’t steel his mind, even his soul would be desecrated. But this was a race against time. He didn’t have time to postpone any actions as he began chanting for defenses from the moon. Even as Liliana screamed for him to save himself, Suimei continued to try to help her.-Volume 3, Chapter 4
This proves again thoughts can reach the soul, however in this case it's clear you need a large amount of it to achieve that, but it again proves the point that since all of these parts of the body are connected, you can use one to attack the other.
Each part of the body influences another, when the physical body felt fatigue, the consciousness and the soul weakens. When the astral body was damaged, the physical body was also weakened. When there were alterations to the ethereal body, it produced changes in the physical and even astral body
“It... exists? If it is a blueprint, then after the physical body is made, isn’t it no longer necessary?”
“Certainly the nuance of the world ‘blueprint’ would imply that, but... In truth, it’s like an operational manual for the human body, as well as a map. The ethereal body is such that the human body always seeks to mirror it...”
“Wh-What...?”
“Sorry, that’s not the point here. What I’m trying to say is that while the ethereal body is a blueprint for the physical body, once that job is complete, it additionally functions like a set of instructions for operating the physical body.”
“I see. That much I can understand.”
With Felmenia up to speed, Suimei moved on to the heart of the matter.
“Then the rest should follow logically. If the ethereal body is a blueprint, then...”
“We just need to rewrite that blueprint!”
“Exactly.”
The point of this lecture was just as Felmenia guessed. Each of the three pillars had special characteristics and influenced the others. When the physical body felt fatigue, naturally, the consciousness and the soul would weaken. When the astral body was damaged, the physical body was also weakened. And just the same way, when there were alterations to the ethereal body, it produced changes in the physical and even astral body. This was all ultimately an arguable weakness of the human body and posed several disadvantages. But at the same time, there were benefits to be reaped from it as well. The mana furnace was one of them. And after leading Felmenia to that realization, Suimei continued his explanation.
“To use the ethereal body to alter the physical body, one must alter the subject’s consciousness using a staged approach. By consciously reforming oneself as a magician, the astral body is first urged to transform based on that self-conception. The next step is to alter one’s own ethereal body using magicka, which in turn alters the physical body. The change will be gradual, but once it happens, that will also have an effect on the astral body. In the end, one eventually arrives again at a state where all three pillars are aligned.”
After concluding a detailed explanation, Suimei moved on to summarizing his point.-Volume 7, Chapter 1
“Certainly the nuance of the world ‘blueprint’ would imply that, but... In truth, it’s like an operational manual for the human body, as well as a map. The ethereal body is such that the human body always seeks to mirror it...”
“Wh-What...?”
“Sorry, that’s not the point here. What I’m trying to say is that while the ethereal body is a blueprint for the physical body, once that job is complete, it additionally functions like a set of instructions for operating the physical body.”
“I see. That much I can understand.”
With Felmenia up to speed, Suimei moved on to the heart of the matter.
“Then the rest should follow logically. If the ethereal body is a blueprint, then...”
“We just need to rewrite that blueprint!”
“Exactly.”
The point of this lecture was just as Felmenia guessed. Each of the three pillars had special characteristics and influenced the others. When the physical body felt fatigue, naturally, the consciousness and the soul would weaken. When the astral body was damaged, the physical body was also weakened. And just the same way, when there were alterations to the ethereal body, it produced changes in the physical and even astral body. This was all ultimately an arguable weakness of the human body and posed several disadvantages. But at the same time, there were benefits to be reaped from it as well. The mana furnace was one of them. And after leading Felmenia to that realization, Suimei continued his explanation.
“To use the ethereal body to alter the physical body, one must alter the subject’s consciousness using a staged approach. By consciously reforming oneself as a magician, the astral body is first urged to transform based on that self-conception. The next step is to alter one’s own ethereal body using magicka, which in turn alters the physical body. The change will be gradual, but once it happens, that will also have an effect on the astral body. In the end, one eventually arrives again at a state where all three pillars are aligned.”
After concluding a detailed explanation, Suimei moved on to summarizing his point.-Volume 7, Chapter 1
It should be noted that one part of the body weakening the other, doesn't mean if you destroy one you destroy the other, even fatal physical wounds won't destroy the soul
Realizing what was afoot, Suimei’s doubts regarding the unnatural loss of the adventurer’s astral body were cleared away. The damage to his astral body was beyond what could be normally done through physical harm. Not even fatal wounds could damage the cradle of the soul like that. Certainly when a person was wounded, the power of their soul waned as well, but that was the extent of it. The soul itself shouldn’t be damaged by any normal means of attack. That meant the adventurer had been attacked by more than just what had caused his physical wounds. It was either an astral attack that was effective against the soul, or perhaps there was something else that actually had the power to penetrate his astral body. It had to be one or the other, and considering the circumstances, it seemed to be the latter. It was likely something put in place to bring down Lefille in a single strike.-Volume 2, Chapter 3
Here it is stated that the astral body is the cradle of the soul, pairing this with what I first posted here that says the astral body holds the soul, I think it's fair to conclude a few things; the astral body contains the soul, but not consciousness, however it is connected to it. To get to the astral body, you have to first go through the consciousness, and then from there you can also get to the soul.
So I think there are 3 layers, the first being the mind, then the astral body then the soul. If you perform an astral attack, you necessarily have to also attack the mind. If you successfully attacked the soul, you had to have attacked the mind, and astral body. Also as I posted, altering the ethereal body which is information type 2, affects both the physical body and even astral body. So performing an ethereal attack will affect everything from the mind to soul, so really I think there are essential 4 layers to the non-physical body.
So in terms of changes, anyone who has or resists astral attacks with no mention of the soul being affected should just have mind manipulation or resistance to it. The astral body contains and connects the mind to soul, but I don't see any proof that damaging it would automatically damage the soul, in fact one of the quotes I posted mentions Suimei speculating on an astral attack which was effective on the soul, which wouldn't make sense if every astral attack automatically reached the soul.
Here comes the main part of this thread, Suimei currently has Low-Godly resurrection due to resurrecting after his physical and astral body were destroyed (Volume 10, Epilogue), however it's stated he did this by analyzing the vast records of his ether body, so his resurrection is reliant on his ether body still existing, which again is type 2 information, so it's fairly obviously what the conclusion is from this, as long as his ether body isn't destroyed he will resurrect, so he should be able to come back from his mind & soul being destroyed, Suimei should get Mid-Godly resurrection.
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