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Masadaverse Discussion Thread 21

Lenus010 said:
Trifa Survived a punch from Dues Ex Machina not Machina's briah, once Machina activated Volsunga Saga and hit trifa with it he literally dies, and there is nothing more to it then that. He did state he couldn't do it but then we have so much more evidence throughout the series outright heavily implying he can, Machina stating he cannot kill Reinhard with Volsunga Saga is more of a contradiction then anything.
Click to expand...
Don't quote large blocks of text, please.


And we have quotes from Trifa saying that Machina can kill Trifa in Reinhard's body, not that he can kill Reinhard with it. Machina's statement states the opposite.

And given how Die Ewigekit's theme of "the body is useless, only the soul matters", it is entirely possible that Machina meant that his Briah won't be able to effect Reinhard's soul.
 
Also, shouldn't Reinhard and the Einherjar have Astral Projection? They are able to project their spirits from the castle into the human world.


And IIRC, wasn't it stated that the Einherjar would only be able to project themselves into the human world after a certain amount of Swastikas were released (4 I think?) but the Einherjar surprised people (Riza?) by appearing earlier than believed possible, although only for a temporary amount of time a day.

Wouldn't that be a resistance to sealing?
 
Lenus010 said:
Its actually 5 Swastikas
what you are saying could be true but there is no real basis towards it.
Click to expand...
It's still a possiblity.

But they should definitely have astral projection though.
 
Paul Frank said:
Nhentai has the black and white books and they contain alot of pictures of characters
Dont know if it's what you're looking for
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Well I bought the artbook DLC for the VN so I have that. Unfortunatly, most of them either cut off at the legs, have text over them or some other issue. Thoigh it was thanks to them that I knew that full body images do exist, just not where we can manage to find them apparently.
 
I can ask that where stated not even a Tsar Bomb kills Einherjars? Kei Sakurai said nothing "short of perhaps a nuclear missile" kills them. so why that's stated in their profiles?
 
Their ratings come mostly from KKK. Keishirou, who has and scales to high end city level to possibly low end mountain level feats, is physically weaker than Wilhelm which ends up creating a scaling chain to all LDO member. It's another case of outdated justifications really.
 
But is it true though?

My memory on everything that's not on the "higher-end" or "1-A" spectrum of the series is a bit hazy, but I don't recall the "Tsar Bomb" thingy. The rating is legit though, Keishirou was explicitly stated to be physically weaker than Wilhelm.
 
I know they are city to mountain lvl scaling to Tubal Cain and Willhelm. but my problem is where that Tsar Bomb statement comes from? if that no where stated so shouldn't their profiles be updated? a Tsar Bomb is trillions times hotter than sun core too so somehow they can survive a Tsar Bomb but not Eleonor flames?

another question. i heard Marie Route and KKK are non canon. so why we scaled them to KKK? imo using Mercurius statement for justifying their outerversal keys is better (statement about Mercurius is beyond infinite concepts, is their originator and has boundless existence)
 
IIRC, it was Trifa that said that Tsar Bomba thing, specifically refering to himself with him being the Divine Vessel and all. As such, I am not sure that defensive aproximation applies to the rest.
 
Marie's route is canon, only KKK itself is a what-if scenario.

Why scale from them you may ask? Because Taikyoku value and Yakou's explanation are legit and applicable to the entire Shinza, they aren't some sort off "lol additions" or something like that. It's not like Taikyoku was only a thing when Yakou uttered the word.

I mean, if they are not related by the slightest, then why do DI cast have Taikyoku charts? *in K3 Visual fanbook (?)
 
Taikyoku didn't exist in DI, it only came with KKK

It's also such a terrible system and limit your writing and scnario creation, Pantheon seems to ignore it as well with Muzan being able to cut Hajun and being stated stronger than Reinhard despite officialy having lower Taiji count
 
ZERO7772 said:
Taikyoku didn't exist in DI, it only came with KKK
It's also such a terrible system and limit your writing and scnario creation, Pantheon seems to ignore it as well with Muzan being able to cut Hajun and being stated stronger than Reinhard despite officialy having lower Taiji count
Click to expand...
I like the Taikyoku system.

And aren't the gods ressurected in Pantheon - what is saying that they were brought back with their full power, not to mention, doesn't Muzan have a Commandment thingy that boosts his strength or something like that?
 
ZERO7772 said:
Taikyoku didn't exist in DI, it only came with KKK
It's also such a terrible system and limit your writing and scnario creation, Pantheon seems to ignore it as well with Muzan being able to cut Hajun and being stated stronger than Reinhard despite officialy having lower Taiji count
Click to expand...
The second paragraph is entirely false. For a first, we have no idea what's Muzan's ranking in the Taikyoku point system KKK used, therefore saying Reinhard has a higher count is outright false. Also, the hell is he stated to be stronger than Reinhard? It was said his ability to kill is only second to Hajun's, that's it. You may as well argue that Ryougi Shiki is stronger than Arcueid Brunestud because her capability to kill is greater, which it is.

Second, Hajun's mechanics are stated in the prologue to work as they did in KKK. That is, infinitely rising stats. When Muzan cut him, all of the people present were amazed for a reason. We are not even given data at all about what Muzan's Commandments do, so speculation is all we've got.

I believe it is very likely for this system to be entirely ditched, but let's not jump to conclusions, and act like it's suddenly canon fact that Pantheon won't somehow abide by this.

For the Gods, the DI VFB had them at "inmesurable" stats all around, and the Taikyoku stat didn't even exist so yes, this came into the series with KKK.
 
Every power level system is bad, period!

>we have no idea what's Muzan's ranking in the Taikyoku point system KKK used

Could swear he was something like 70-80Taiji value last time I asked on this wiki.

>Also, the hell is he stated to be stronger than Reinhard?

Pretty sure Mithra implied that Reinhard and his legion are no match for Muzan in the prolouge. Unless I misunderstand it, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-3t2BGcezQ&t=194s from 2:28 to 2:51

Well yeah, but from what we know Taiji value trupms all and every abillty a hadou/Gudo god can pull to make up for the different. Like Shirou vs Satanel

Although you right, it's true we know barely anything about Muzan Commandments
 
I mean that even though that Taikyoku were only added later on, shouldn't it be considered canon since it existed before the throne itself as we should abide by the latest canon?

Even though Pantheon is very likely to retcon/change a lot of stuffs lol

@ZERO

You mean Shiori vs Satanel, right?
 
^It really doesn't matter at this point unless Pantheon come out and clear things. Taikyoku should still relevant for now.
 
Till this Prologue we didn't know how fights for the Throne happened, so we just guessed it was a simple game of killing each other, including Satanel's case. Therefore, it was easy to conclude (with some KKK statements supporting it) that each God was stronger than their predecessor. However... material leading up to Pantheon basically stated that Craving only became a weapon starting from Snake's World. All the others: Mithra, Muzan and Satanel, did something different to ascend to Godhood and to the Throne. And we know Muzan was very happy to relinquish his spot for his "son" to take, given it was his plan all along, ever since he had become the single and greatest of all Evils.
 
Ravenous4th said:
I mean that even though that Taikyoku were only added later on, shouldn't it be considered canon since it existed before the throne itself as we should abide by the latest canon?
Even though Pantheon is very likely to retcon/change a lot of stuffs lol

@ZERO

You mean Shiori vs Satanel, right?
Click to expand...
Pantheon isn't likely going to change anything because it will never come out.
 
Ravenous4th said:
If it does ever come out, that is.
EDIT: I find Satanel's world retcon a tad bit.. extreme
Click to expand...
Meh, it is a blend of Paradise Lost's endgame with KKK's depiction of Zoar. Which also offers far more narrative potential, including Mercurius related stuff, than anything we had on this world before.
 
EMC and his crusade against VNW once again. ex-dee

What do you guys think about Rea's ending at this point? Would you still consider it "canon" after all these stuffs?
 
Ravenous4th said:
EMC and his crusade against VNW once again. ex-dee
What do you guys think about Rea's ending at this point? Would you still consider it "canon" after all these stuffs?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it is canon. Why would more stuff being made for KKK's timeline be considered canon just because there's more material? It's like saying Marvel 616 stops being the "main continuity" just because Ultimate Marvel is getting more stuff. This works on WoG. And it's not like you can't just enjoy both paths, which is what you are meant to do anyway.

We can have it all. After all, does Last Encore stop being somehow "canon" to the Nasuverse because it is basically what'd happened if Fate/Extra ended differently? Or hell, as far as I know, Grand Order is not anymore "canon" than the rest of the Nasuverse simply because now it is the "main timeline" due to how much TYPE MOON is milking that shit.
 
I suppose you do have a fair point. It's just I kept getting this weird feeling that Pantheon might be made canon, guess it's just some random thought that popped in my head after all.
 
@ZERO

You mean Shiori vs Satanel, right?

That what I said yeah? Reinhard also feels like a similar case with his legion being boosted to the same level as a hadou god yet the best he can do is achive a tie with Snake. Ren is the same case.
 
Snip

Doesn't marvel work through multiverse system? If so wouldn't marvel 616 simply be a diffent timeline that work differently? Hadou gods are supposed to be above multiverse and timelines so ther can only be one route unless Pantheon recton that as well.

I could see Pantehon mixing every possibilty in the throne history and makes it canon to each other somehow
 
Just a game theory

Marie route -> Three Colors and Marie vs Hajun -> Snake lolnope -> Rea route -> Hajun is retconned out of existence -> Twilight's era eventually surpasses the Throne -> Naraka is essentially ******

- Rea Route Naraka escapes the Throne and seeks help from the Pantheon Naraka (this makes Marie route and rea route canon timelines of their own and since Snake actually managed to erase Hajun this means the gods' actions aren't completely under Naraka's will)

- Rea Route Naraka fights the Hadou Gods himself when he is found out hiding in the throne

- Rea Route Naraka brings Hajun back which takes us back to KKK or causes another Hadou God to appear (the last missing hadou god?)

- Rea Route Naraka retcons everything to make Pantheon possible (Masada basically roleplaying Naraka)
 
Thats Trexalfas Shinza wiki, but he didnt add that. It was someone without an actual acc so im pretty sure it aint legit.

Sounds like suggs level and cringe to be honest
 
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