Masada Commanders Re-Upgrade because the downgrade was nonsense

[Overlord775]

alright, so there was a downgrade that removed the 5-A ratings from the generals and Reinhard's profiles (A very sloppy one at that considering they forgot to remove it from Ren's, the goddamn main protagonist), but i think it was a whole bunch of nonsense and i'm gonna explain it now

Although Wilhelm was able to use all 8,000 of his souls at once, this was not enough to harm Methuselah. If just using 8,000 souls was enough, then Wolfgang could do it, but Wolfgang was no more than an ant against Methuselah.

No shit sherlock, the Commanders were only fighting against attacks worth hundreds while Methuselah is composed by Novemdecillions, that's why they were 5-A and not 3-A. In fact just the fact that Wolfgang made wounds that were visible AT ALL means he blew up quite the number of nights.

The reason Wilhelm could have harmed Methuselah was because Methuselah had absorbed Claudia and Claudia had Wilhelm's blood. It connected them together, and Methuselah / concept of darkness believed that he was weaker than Claudia (light and the duality of darkness), so Methuselah became weaker than Wilhelm.

Doesn't matter, the 5-A rating is fighting against the Jaws of Darkness, which the Commanders also were menaging even it was a losing battle, not harming Methusalah himself.

Also, according to WoG, Methuselah is stronger than Wilhelm and the Commanders.

which again, doesn't matter here because they are NOT scaling to him directly, but to an attack that is 100/Novemdecillions of his being

So yeah, stuff is bad

 

[QuasiYuri]

Einherjar Wilhelm wouldn't have been able to destroy that jaw without Claudia's connection and the ideology thing, so the reasonning stays the same.

Besides, Wolfgang did absolutely no damage and was compared to an ant iirc. Even the scans in the OP repeat that.

On the other hand, all of their others feats are in tier 7, which is more consistent and doesn't rely on them being unable to do something.

 

[Overlord775]

Einherjar Wilhelm wouldn't have been able to destroy that jaw without Claudia's connection and the ideology thing, so the reasonning stays the same.

Nothing there states that the Nights become less durable, just that Meth himself is weak to Claudia. Also again, the Commanders fought them off the Jaws

Besides, Wolfgang did absolutely no damage and was compared to an ant iirc. Even the scans in the OP repeat that.

He DID damage, it litterally says that wounds are made but are minuscule. Beside, please be reminded that Meth has 3-A Durability.

On the other hand, all of their others feats are in tier 7, which is more consistent and doesn't rely on them being unable to do something.

Said feats coming from either them not at full power or legioneres who get casually clapped by Commanders, so doesn't matter

 

[QuasiYuri]

Nothing there states that the Nights become less durable, just that Meth himself is weak to Claudia. Also again, the Commanders fought them off the Jaws

You do realize they come from Meth himself? Also the commanders were far below him in term of power anyway.

He DID damage, it litterally says that wounds are made but are minuscule. Beside, please be reminded that Meth has 3-A Durability.

Which would just make the feat useless unless you want to scale him to his full durability, which isn't the case.

Said feats coming from either them not at full power or legioneres who get casually clapped by Commanders, so doesn't matter

Being close to full power or from statements referring to their full power*

 

[Ningenron]

Again? Really?

 

[Overlord775]

You do realize they come from Meth himself? Also the commanders were far below him in term of power anyway.

You do realize that it doesn't matter ? The nights being low 5-B is because of their sheer existencial mass, that can't change

Also again, being far below in power doesn't matter if they can still do stuff, they did fight off the jaws

Which would just make the feat useless unless you want to scale him to his full durability, which isn't the case.

Not in the least, the feat is destroying, surviving and fighting off a 100 nights attack, NOT HARMING METHUSELA, but it still proves their weren't just not doing anything like you are claiming

Being close to full power or from statements referring to their full power*

Considering the current rating feat is made by a newly Die Ewigkeit'ed Wolgang with utter else, i very much doubt your word

 

[QuasiYuri]

Why would your single unsourced feat be more credible than something discussed in both the Low 7-C downgrade thread and the commanders one exactly? You really aren't in a good position to be the doubtful one here.

Also Meth is his tier through mass as well, yet he could become weak enough to get trashed by Whilhelm. His Jaws having the same nature, you can't invent that they somehow were unaffected.

Wolfgang's feat was against his durability, which is why I'm referring to when talking about it being useless.

Anyway, you basically aren't bringing any real scan to show 5-A nor reasonning to explain why this tier would be more coherent since the beginning.

 

[Overlord775]

ok, so first off, the Wolfgang thing is taken out of constext

It's not that the wound are litteral shallow, it's ment as metaphorically because of Methusela containing countless night and thus the damage done doesn't matter to him

This alone would make the Commanders at least Low 5-B since they can shave off nights

Here Eleonore meneges to lit up the darkness, with Methusela being using the Jaws of Darkness by this point and thus needing a light of equivalent power to push back (With Beatrice's light being casually overwelmed instead)

 

[Tarang123]

I’m neutral, but I’m leaning towards disagreeing.

 

[QuasiYuri]

ok, so first off, the Wolfgang thing is taken out of constext

It's not that the wound are litteral shallow, it's ment as metaphorically because of Methusela containing countless night and thus the damage done doesn't matter to him

This alone would make the Commanders at least Low 5-B since they can shave off nights

Your scan kinda confirm that it was useless and just "affected" his physical form.

The previous thread gave more statements on it iirc.

Here Eleonore meneges to lit up the darkness, with Methusela being using the Jaws of Darkness by this point and thus needing a light of equivalent power to push back (With Beatrice's light being casually overwelmed instead)

Your very scan says she barely did better Beatrice, so if you use that feat for the tier upgrade you're basically asking for Low 5-B Beatrice as well.

You're kinda proving that the scale of their damage is really not significant with that last one, unless you want to scale Beatrice and everyone scaling to her to something Whilhelm only countered with Claudia.

It's further proved by the fact that Machina breaking a jaw through hax is the first "victory" on their side.

 

[Tarang123]

Your very scan says she barely did better Beatrice, so if you use that feat for the tier upgrade you're basically asking for Low 5-B Beatrice as well.

Yeah, I kinda have to agree with this one, the scan was pretty weird,

Your scan kinda confirm that it was useless and just "affected" his physical form.

I think the point of it was that they can do damage to him, but even that just seems like dispersing a dust cloud. The cloud isn’t gone, just in an almost scattered form. Not the best analogy, but gives the right idea to some extent

 

[Overlord775]

Your scan kinda confirm that it was useless and just "affected" his physical form.

The previous thread gave more statements on it iirc.

The text litterally says it's not because of that, as Wolgang is able to affect the non-physical

Hell, the same animation is played when the Whilhelm attacks him, so Wolf is causing damage there.

Your very scan says she barely did better Beatrice, so if you use that feat for the tier upgrade you're basically asking for Low 5-B Beatrice as well.

You're kinda proving that the scale of their damage is really not significant with that last one, unless you want to scale Beatrice and everyone scaling to her to something Whilhelm only countered with Claudia.

It's further proved by the fact that Machina breaking a jaw through hax is the first "victory" on their side.

that's very much not the case, as Beatrice was instantly overwealmed by the jaws while Eleonore wasn't, the text saying she barely did better is because just defending and minimalizing damage isn't really a better position for her. Another thig, the text also says she would be faring better if she could go all out, but couldn't because it would inflct friendly fire (pun not intended), so there's that too.

also to note, it wasn't a jaw, it was a wave of them and was mroe a victroy in the sense that they have something that can actually kill Methuselah

 

[Odinson]

I’m neutral, but I’m leaning towards disagreeing.

Y

 

[Tarang123]

Y

I think yuri is making some sense here, but I think there’s argument on the other so I’m still neutral

 

[Overlord775]

bump

 

[Overlord775]

bump

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yuri more convincing here so i'm with him

 

[PrinceofPein]

If I am getting this right, overlord point is that Schreiber blew up a number of nights and caused damages although it is not noticeable like taking a cup of water from an ocean

 

[Tarang123]

If I am getting this right, overlord point is that Schreiber blew up a number of nights and caused damages although it is not noticeable like taking a cup of water from an ocean

Either way, that would likely still severely upgrade the ldo members unless there’s context against it

 

[PrinceofPein]

Either way, that would likely still severely upgrade the ldo members unless there’s context against it

Yup that's why I am leaning towards agreeing tbh, irrelevant damage =\= no damage at all

 

[Odinson]

Bumping because this thread's interesting.

 

[Overlord775]

bump

 

[Overlord775]

bump

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well you should probably send a message to yuri and shuradou's wall.
I'm too bleeped out to do anything or argue currently

 

[Odinson]

Well you should probably send a message to yuri and shuradou's wall.
I'm too bleeped out to do anything or argue currently

His additions are very straightforward tho

 

[DaReaperMan]

Neutral leaning towards disagree.

 

[PrinceofPein]

His additions are very straightforward tho

Yes and he actually makes a lot of sense

 

[Overlord775]

bump

 

[Tarang123]

Actually, I think I'll agree with the thread for now. Even if Schreiber only barely hurt Methuselah, it still counts as a wound of sorts and would have destroyed several nights, which would still count as a tier 5 rating, if not even higher than that.

 

[Duedate8898]

I do have a question here, the scans on the profile and these scans:

ok, so first off, the Wolfgang thing is taken out of constext

Seem to be in direct conflict with one another. The ones on the profile outright state that Albedo lacked the firepower to hurt Meth, yet these above show Meth being hurt but just regenerating. What is the context surrounding the difference in these scans if anyone can provide that?

 

[Tarang123]

Seem to be in direct conflict with one another. The ones on the profile outright state that Albedo lacked the firepower to hurt Meth, yet these above show Meth being hurt but just regenerating. What is the context surrounding the difference in these scans if anyone can provide that?

It seems that Albedo was unable to give a notable wound, and Methuselah wouldn't sustain any kind of permanent damage due to his type 8 immortality and mid-godly regeneration. He basically just regenerated everything instantly. Simply put, Albedo didn't have enough power to truly harm Methuselah in any meaningful way. The only characters that would have were Machina, Reinhard, and Mercurius, but none of them would have a tier 5 rating as Reinhard scales to the entirety of Methuselah, Merc created Methuselah, and Machina's thing is just hax

 

[azontr]

I do have a question here, the scans on the profile and these scans:

Seem to be in direct conflict with one another. The ones on the profile outright state that Albedo lacked the firepower to hurt Meth, yet these above show Meth being hurt but just regenerating. What is the context surrounding the difference in these scans if anyone can provide that?

It isn't really that contradicting. While worded weirdly, Schreiber has the firepower to "hurt" Methuselah, but the wounds are so minor for the man that they don't really count as injuries, he just has way too many nights for Wolfgang to do significant damage.

 

[Infera28]

Disagree

The reason Wilhelm, commanders and Ren were 5-A was because of the Jaws of Darkness, which is a combination of 100 Nights. It was never said that the commanders destroyed the Jaws of Darkness or even number of nights.

Methuselah easily reflected the attack of Gladsheim, which is stronger than all the commanders and Methuselah was only testing his own power and he also reflected Eleonore's attack, who is one of the commanders. In fact, Methuselah was stomping everyone and he even got tired of them and asked their leader Reinhard to come forward and fight him.

And it was not even Methuselah's whole being, but a humanoid avatar created by using Ludvig. Methuselah's whole being is all darkness in existence and far larger. It was basically only a infinitesimal drop of ocean.

Wolfgang left a very small number of wounds on Avatar body, and the wounds were so small that an ant could fit in them. It was stated that Wolfgang severely lacked the firepower to damage him, so he wasn't even damaging him but making infinitesimal gapes.

And Methuselah's whole being is made of the Novemdecillions nights, so the wounds could only be on one of the nights not all nights.

The image you sent for "hole on the chest" was also a time when Wolfgang had not yet used Ber'ah and could not even affect the concept of darkness and only slightly disturbed the scientific darkness.

In fact, 5-A and 3-A Methuselah does not make sense either, and I will Downgrade them soon.

 

[Infera28]

Another thig, the text also says she would be faring better if she could go all out, but couldn't because it would inflct friendly fire (pun not intended), so there's that too.

Not only did she have no proof that it could work, but she would also kill all her comrades.

Eleonore also uses fire, which is an anti-darkness element, so you can't scale it to anything.

 

[Tarang123]

Wolfgang left a very small number of wounds on Avatar body, and the wounds were so small that an ant could fit in them. It was stated that Wolfgang severely lacked the firepower to damage him, so he wasn't even damaging him but making infinitesimal gapes.

This one is kinda irrelevant when he literally still affects him. The wounds are so inconsequential that even an ant can’t fit through is a good point, but that would technically only prove that Wolfgang actually did damage, even if only barely.

 

[QuasiYuri]

This one is kinda irrelevant when he literally still affects him. The wounds are so inconsequential that even an ant can’t fit through is a good point, but that would technically only prove that Wolfgang actually did damage, even if only barely.

Technically speaking it is as insignifiant as me punching the ground, technically damaging a veeeery small portion of the planet, yet still being a random human.

I agree with everything Infera said too including how these ratings aren't good to begin with.

Also while this isn't a very liked argument or term to use, I think a jump of more than 6 tier for very barely affecting a guy would have qualified as an Outlier to begin with.

 

[Infera28]

This one is kinda irrelevant when he literally still affects him. The wounds are so inconsequential that even an ant can’t fit through is a good point, but that would technically only prove that Wolfgang actually did damage, even if only barely.

A parasitic insect can cause a wound as small as a dot on my finger and drink my blood from it, i will also not say that it damage me, because the damage was so small that it is barely visible at all. It is only effecting an extremely small part of me and i can't even feel any pain. As Yuri said, if you punch the ground, you will technically damage an extremely small part of the planet too.

 

[PrinceofPein]

A parasitic insect can cause a wound as small as a dot on my finger and drink my blood from it, i will also not say that it damage me, because the damage was so small that it is barely visible at all. It is only effecting an extremely small part of me and i can't even feel any pain. As Yuri said, if you punch the ground, you will technically damage an extremely small part of the planet too.

If that being the case, if you are let's say you are universe sized, and an ant makes a let's say a pin sized wound on your hand, that wound would have destroyed at least a galaxy sized space. Just saying btw not saying I agree with OP but I see his point so I am neutral but leaning towards agreeing

 

[PrinceofPein]

5-A and 3-A Methuselah does not make sense either, and I will Downgrade them soon.

There is no 3A methuselah its low 2C and I can assure you, you already have a disagree on that thread

 

[azontr]

The only 3-A thing Methuselah has is durability lol.