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Hi,this is my first thread and wanted to make a revision of lucifer from marvel comics and also the cosmology in Aaron's run of Ghost rider(vicious cycle)
here his profile:
vsbattles.fandom.com
one of the main issues that I have with the profile is that it says that murdok kurios is lucifer,however this isn't true:
Defenders v1 issue 111:murdok directly says that he is born out of mankind's collective unconscious and that he isn't lucifer,he is just humanity's view of that being
to further add onto this,we know that both of them have their own separated page in the Marvel Zombies: The Book of Angels, Demons & Various Monstrosities
It should be noted that lucifer should scale to the house of ideas(here again its profile)
vsbattles.fandom.com
why this?
In Ghost Rider's event "War For Heaven",we saw a huge amount of consistency for Heaven being the house of ideas and this is also thanks to later comics:
Ghost Rider v6 Vicious Cycle 21:Zadkiel is called a being of the “Ineffable Sefiroth”
for those who don’t know what Sefiroth is,lemme quote this:
“What is the Kabbalah Tree of Life?
The Tree of Life is the primary mystical symbol of Kabbalah. It is the structure of the 10 Sefirot (or Sephirot), arranged in 3 pillars. Each Sefirah (singular for Sefirot) can be described as a type of spiritual light, and as the revelation of an aspect of the Creator. The Sephirot contain the governmental laws for all creation, meaning that everything that was, is, and will be, comes forth through them
1
. The Kabbalah Tree of Life has been called ‘an archetype scheme which is the divine model for the Universe and for Man’
2
.
The Tree of Life of the 10 Sephirot stretches from the Divine nature of the Creator (referred to as Eyn Sof, אין סוף without end), which is above or beyond the Sefirot, and physical existence, which is below the Sephirot and comes forth from them.
The Sephirot
Definition: The 10 Sephirot can be considered in a way as spiritual lights and as as revealed aspects of God, containing spiritual laws which govern and bring forth all of Creation. They link what is above them – the infinite and ungraspable nature of the Creator – with what is below them, the finite physical creation.”
this is also portrayed in Ghost Rider:Kushala Infinity Comic
in the series,we went to know about Qaballah and how it works before immortal hulk came out
(basically there are 2 Qaballahs but I will cover that later)
to further add onto this,when the Phoenix threatened Loki,she would have "pruned him from the tree"(defenders:beyond issue 3)
this because Defenders Beyond and Immortal Hulk(both written by Al Ewing),expand the concept of qaballah to marvel cosmology
And also In Immortal Hulk,Even Thor implies that Hulk is the opposite of the Tree Of Life
Immortal Hulk Issue 47: ”I know what you are,Hulk! You are the hidden blight behind the world tree! You are the untamed storm that tears the longhouse asunder! You are the darkness of midgard made flesh”
of course,there is more
in Defenders Beyond,the last page of the 5th issue says that the house of ideas was the heaven seen in fantastic four issue 511
here some scans for reference
in the 2nd one,it is stated that human brain cannot fully grasp things on that level,despite Reed was able to comprehend the negative zone which have high 1B and higher stuffs
stuffs such as infinite higher dimensions:
infinite realities and dimensions
in the superflow which is within the negative zone,there is the realm of the in-betweener which is between all conceptual dualities,including time and space
and lucifer was native of this realm so he would scale that high
turning to the post,the fact that said plane is beyond what they can comprehend is just consistent with the statement of zadkiel("He of the ineffable sefirot")
Ineffable means something beyond comprehension,that words cannot explain
www.bing.com
The house of ideas is keter
while the below place is thaumiel
Immortal Hulk issue 11:”In Qabalah,The Highest point on the Tree Of Life is called Keter. The Crown Above All Things. It is compassion beyond comprehension. The unity of divine. But on the opposite side is Thaumiel.” and “I am no scholar but if Qlippoth is a reflection,then perhaps this shadow-sphere is the lowest point. Below All. A Hell beneath all others.”
this means that the sefiroth referred to in Ghost Rider War For Heaven is the House of Ideas as it is consistent with fantastic four,defenders beyond and immortal hulk
lucifer also scales to zadkiel as he tortured him in hell
this is confirmed in
Also Ghost Rider in that run was directly stated to be a threat to all known realms to Strange
Strange at this point also went more than once in Eternity's realm which is implied to be beyond eternity like Eternity is to everything below
also this takes place after defenders v3 where strange showed his knowledge about the multiverse
even ignoring this,Zadkiel went on to say that while God is all powerful,his creations aren't and that Ghost Riders can take down the entire afterlife,Heaven included
so this was pretty much my revision about the 2 pages,they should have also low 1A ap,durability etc.... since they come from a realm beyond the negative zone at least and also 1A as they scale to the house of ideas
here his profile:
Marduk Kurios
Satan, true name Marduk Kurios, though he has gone by many others, is a powerful demon who rules over the underworld as one of the Lords of Hell. While it is unknown whether he truly is the angel cast down from Heaven by God long ago or just the most powerful of the many pretenders to that name...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Defenders v1 issue 111:murdok directly says that he is born out of mankind's collective unconscious and that he isn't lucifer,he is just humanity's view of that being
to further add onto this,we know that both of them have their own separated page in the Marvel Zombies: The Book of Angels, Demons & Various Monstrosities
It should be noted that lucifer should scale to the house of ideas(here again its profile)
House of Ideas (Marvel Comics)
You planned to impose your own own rules upon our reality. But that plan had a fundamental flaw, this reality isn't about rules. It's about flying. It's about finding and fanning the spark of courage in the darkest of nights. You cannot win here, you're playing against the house. The House of...
vsbattles.fandom.com
In Ghost Rider's event "War For Heaven",we saw a huge amount of consistency for Heaven being the house of ideas and this is also thanks to later comics:
Ghost Rider v6 Vicious Cycle 21:Zadkiel is called a being of the “Ineffable Sefiroth”
for those who don’t know what Sefiroth is,lemme quote this:
“What is the Kabbalah Tree of Life?
The Tree of Life is the primary mystical symbol of Kabbalah. It is the structure of the 10 Sefirot (or Sephirot), arranged in 3 pillars. Each Sefirah (singular for Sefirot) can be described as a type of spiritual light, and as the revelation of an aspect of the Creator. The Sephirot contain the governmental laws for all creation, meaning that everything that was, is, and will be, comes forth through them
1
. The Kabbalah Tree of Life has been called ‘an archetype scheme which is the divine model for the Universe and for Man’
2
.
The Tree of Life of the 10 Sephirot stretches from the Divine nature of the Creator (referred to as Eyn Sof, אין סוף without end), which is above or beyond the Sefirot, and physical existence, which is below the Sephirot and comes forth from them.
The Sephirot
Definition: The 10 Sephirot can be considered in a way as spiritual lights and as as revealed aspects of God, containing spiritual laws which govern and bring forth all of Creation. They link what is above them – the infinite and ungraspable nature of the Creator – with what is below them, the finite physical creation.”
Kabbalah Tree of Life Pt 1 - The Sephirot | Walking Kabbalah
What is the Kabbalah Tree of Life? Learn about the the primary mystical symbol of Kabbalah and the structure of the 10 Sefirot (or Sephirot).
www.walkingkabbalah.com
in the series,we went to know about Qaballah and how it works before immortal hulk came out
(basically there are 2 Qaballahs but I will cover that later)
to further add onto this,when the Phoenix threatened Loki,she would have "pruned him from the tree"(defenders:beyond issue 3)
this because Defenders Beyond and Immortal Hulk(both written by Al Ewing),expand the concept of qaballah to marvel cosmology
And also In Immortal Hulk,Even Thor implies that Hulk is the opposite of the Tree Of Life
Immortal Hulk Issue 47: ”I know what you are,Hulk! You are the hidden blight behind the world tree! You are the untamed storm that tears the longhouse asunder! You are the darkness of midgard made flesh”
of course,there is more
in Defenders Beyond,the last page of the 5th issue says that the house of ideas was the heaven seen in fantastic four issue 511
here some scans for reference
in the 2nd one,it is stated that human brain cannot fully grasp things on that level,despite Reed was able to comprehend the negative zone which have high 1B and higher stuffs
stuffs such as infinite higher dimensions:
infinite realities and dimensions
in the superflow which is within the negative zone,there is the realm of the in-betweener which is between all conceptual dualities,including time and space
and lucifer was native of this realm so he would scale that high
turning to the post,the fact that said plane is beyond what they can comprehend is just consistent with the statement of zadkiel("He of the ineffable sefirot")
Ineffable means something beyond comprehension,that words cannot explain
ineffable meaning - Bing
Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.
The house of ideas is keter
while the below place is thaumiel
Immortal Hulk issue 11:”In Qabalah,The Highest point on the Tree Of Life is called Keter. The Crown Above All Things. It is compassion beyond comprehension. The unity of divine. But on the opposite side is Thaumiel.” and “I am no scholar but if Qlippoth is a reflection,then perhaps this shadow-sphere is the lowest point. Below All. A Hell beneath all others.”
this means that the sefiroth referred to in Ghost Rider War For Heaven is the House of Ideas as it is consistent with fantastic four,defenders beyond and immortal hulk
lucifer also scales to zadkiel as he tortured him in hell
this is confirmed in
Fear Itself: Fellowship Of Fear
Also Ghost Rider in that run was directly stated to be a threat to all known realms to Strange
Strange at this point also went more than once in Eternity's realm which is implied to be beyond eternity like Eternity is to everything below
also this takes place after defenders v3 where strange showed his knowledge about the multiverse
even ignoring this,Zadkiel went on to say that while God is all powerful,his creations aren't and that Ghost Riders can take down the entire afterlife,Heaven included
so this was pretty much my revision about the 2 pages,they should have also low 1A ap,durability etc.... since they come from a realm beyond the negative zone at least and also 1A as they scale to the house of ideas
