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Part One: Yggdrasil and Those Who Scale
Right now, Yggdrasil is scaled to High 1-A based on this panel, showing it encompassing the Living Tribunal. I have a big problem with this, as I do not think this scaling is at all narratively implied. It is a huge outlier that is never brought up or implied again. It should be entirely dropped. For new Yggdrasil scaling:Yggdrasil is "everything" and has "roots and branches in all that is." It is also stated to exist across all planes of reality. This means that it be at least High 1-B due to encompassing all of Earth-616's realms. Furthermore, it has been stated to encompass of the Multiverse's timelines. This is supported by the fact that when the Enchantress wounded Yggdrasil with her magic, it threatened to destroy all realities. These means that beyond just scaling to the size of Earth-616, this would scale to all realities in the multiverse. This makes it a Low 1-A structure.
Proposal #1: Scale Yggdrasil to Low 1-A due to being connected to all realities across the multiverse
There are many feats of scaling to Yggdrasil:
- Thor pushed the Worldengine, explicitly fighting against the full power of both the engine and Yggdrasil itself
- Thor shattered the root of Yggdrasil
- Thor defeated MYTHOS, who had the full power of Yggdrasil
- Baby Thor shook all of Yggdrasil every time he cried
- Enchantress' magic almost killed Yggdrasil had Thor not intervened
- Storm created a storm around Yggdrasil that threatened to tear it asunder
- With the Odinsword, Thor split the World Tree in twain
- Surtur's flame burned all of Yggdrasil, and Odin was powerful enough to negate them
- Hela and Mephisto fighting would cause omniversal armageddon beyond Ragnarok
- Odin and others are stated in Marvel: Absolutely Everything You Need To Know to be able to destroy and recreate the Multiverse
- Eric Masterson and Dargo Ktor clashing unleashed mystical energy across all planes of existence, and fully powered a machine that would collapse infinite timelines into one (Timelines in Marvel are entire realities, and thus this should theoretically scale to an infinite number of realities)
- Galactus, Scrier, and Other fighting would have destroyed all universes (We know that in this context, "universe" does indeed mean "reality," as Oblivion compares it to what the Chaos King intended on doing. However, this does not scale the feat to Chaos King's level, as Oblivion was merely saying that this would succeed at destroying all universes where Chaos King failed. He is not saying that this would mean High 1-A levels of destruction, as the only stated effects are all universes, with the power to do that not requiring Chaos King levels of power. However, I have been told that if the DeMatteis cosmology split happens then this feat likely won't be useable)
- Odin's fight against Seth tore at the fabric of the Multiverse (This is accepted as just High 1-B, but I think should be higher as it shows levels of power affecting the multiverse and not just Odin's reality)
Proposal #2: The peaks of Thor, Loki, Enchantress, and Storm should be Low 1-A. By scaling above these characters, and scaling to his own feat, Odin (and by extension all Skyfather and Hell Lord tier characters) should scale to Low 1-A too.
Part Two: Fixing Thor and Other Heralds Too
Thor's profile has some big issues. There are way too many tiers listed on his profile and most of them don't need to be there.Proposal #3: Every 3-C character should be given flat out High 3-A. If there are any who were barely given 3-C, then perhaps downgrade them to 5-B. Any character with both 3-C and High 3-A, should drop the 3-C.
Now for the rest of Thor's profile:
"High 3-A at peak" — No he isn't. Why does it say that? The key lists several more tiers beyond High 3-A so clearly its not his peak. High 3-A should just be treated as his normal level of power: not holding back, and not pushing himself to his limits.
"higher with Thermo-Blast" — I think this is a bit unnecessary. Yes it is more powerful, but it is just more words cluttering the key without conveying necessary information. Thor is also stronger with Warrior's Madness, two Mjolnirs, and Megingjörð but we don't list any of those because it is redundant. This should be dropped, and in his High 3-A justification just add an explanation that this is stronger than his normal attacks.
"High 1-B to Low 1-A with the God Blast" — If Proposal #2 is accepted, then this can simply be cut to Low 1-A.
"High 1-A via his inner life-essence" — I already covered High 1-A being done away with, but my other issue is the wording. "Inner life-essence" isn't really treated as a thing in-story. At least, not as special of a thing as this tiering suggests. Many of the examples shown don't really have anything to do with an inner life essence, and the others are just him going beyond his limits, which is pretty common for superhero stories. This wording should be dropped entirely.
Backscaling from Herald Thor's High 1-A God Blast — Herald of None is pretty clearly a huge powerup, so it doesn't make sense at all for any feat done in a powerup form to backscale to weaker forms. I don't understand why this is on the profile, I don't think I've ever seen any other powerup treated this way. Unless we have explicit confirmation otherwise, powerups like this should be assumed to empower every stat of the character in question.
Proposal #4: Thor's first key should be simplified to "High 3-A normally, up to Low 1-A" at peak and with God Blast. It is much easier to read, conveys the information more efficiently, and doesn't result in insane scaling like baby Thor being stronger than the Living Tribunal. High 1-A should be dropped from Odinforce key, and they key should be changed from High 1-B to Low 1-A.
Thor's peak should scale to both his aforementioned Yggdrasil feats, and to some feats that scale him to Skyfathers and Hell Lords:
- Thor vs. Hela, Thor outright physically overpowers Hela, but this is implied to be his peak because Hela says she has not seem him this strong before.
- Thor vs. Hela 2, Hela says Thor is too fierce a fighter for her, so she needs to use hax to defeat him
- Thor vs. Mephisto, Thor defeats Mephisto by dunking him in lava and then hardening it
- Thor vs. Mephisto 2, Thor fights Mephisto who says that neither of them can defeat the other
- Thor hurt The Glory, a being with the power of an entire Pantheon
- Thor fought Zeus, and while he did lose, Zeus said that he resisted him stronger than any of the Titans or Olympians
- Thor briefly fought the manifestation of the Odinforce, which had been drained from Odin (Much less impressive than the others, but I figured still worth noting)
- Odin seems to have felt the need to wear the Destroyer Armor and wield the Twilight Sword when confronting Thor's rampage (Thor got stomped, but I feel its noteworthy that Odin decided to amp himself)
- Thor briefly fought Surtur, being able to cause him pain and survive Surtur's attack. with Surtur complimenting his strength and implying that he made him feel more pain than he has felt since he first fought Odin
Summary:
Proposal #1: Scale Yggdrasil to either High 1-B or Low 1-A due to being connected to all realities across the multiverseProposal #2: The peaks of Thor, Loki, Enchantress, and Storm should be High 1-B or Low 1-A. By scaling above these characters, and scaling to his own feat, Odin (and by extension all Skyfather and Hell Lord tier characters) should scale to High 1-B or Low 1-A too. Thor's peak is based both on his own Yggdrasil feats, and on scaling to Skyfathers and Hell Lords.
Proposal #3: Every 3-C character should be given flat out High 3-A. If there are any who were barely given 3-C, then perhaps downgrade them to 5-B.
Proposal #4: Thor's first key should be simplified to "High 3-A normally, up to Low 1-A at peak and with God Blast." It is much easier to read, conveys the information more efficiently, and doesn't result in insanely scaling like baby Thor being stronger than the Living Tribunal.
Votes:
Agree:Disagree:
Neutral:
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