Martial Artists Fights, Round 1: 9-C (Ayanokouji Kiyotaka Vs Ip Man) (PAUSED)

[RoggerReggor]

He definitely would. Don't underestimate Ip man.

Overestimating Ayanokouji.

I like Ip Man more than I do Ayanokouji (in general, not in powerscaling) just if you think I am biased towards Ayanokouji. He's one of the reasons why I practiced some martial arts (though I was more influenced by the Karate Kid tbh). But no matter whatever you do, you cannot reach Ayanokouji's level in any life.
But no matter how much I like Naruto, I wouldn't say that he beats Goku, this is the same thing.

 

[Vzearr]

I like Ip Man more than I do Ayanokouji (in general, not in powerscaling) just if you think I am biased towards Ayanokouji. He's one of the reasons why I practiced some martial arts (though I was more influenced by the Karate Kid tbh). But no matter whatever you do, you cannot reach Ayanokouji's level in any life.
But no matter how much I like Naruto, I wouldn't say that he beats Goku, this is the same thing.

I didn't think you were biased.

 

[Dinozxd]

Following this. I've been waiting for an IP Man matchup for a long ass time.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

He was able to beat a martial arts professional instructor in martial arts when he was under the age of 9 (he might as very well be 5-6 I guess) and got past them in just 3 months. He got mastery over a martial arts in just 3 months, something which took a professional a huge part of their life. His White Room period was more than 10 years long, so you can say he knows around 20 martial arts OR 40 martial arts, he has arguably 12 revealed in the anime, out of which, 6 have been mentioned at several instances. This easily puts his adaptability at Extraordinary Genius level which is way higher than Ip Man's gifted.

Was it stated he knew 20-40 martial arts? How did you arrive at that figure. The rest is impressive considering age but defeating professional martial artists is an extremely easy feat for IP Man since he is so far above not just professionals but a hierarchy of Martial Arts Grand Masters skill wise.

He can mimic anything which is related to what he has learnt by just absorbing the information.

Well that depends on how fast he can because IP takes out his opponents very quickly.

He has never been hit since his debut, if we ignore the cases when he intentionally let himself hit. Speed is not even a factor for him.

Speed has to have played a part here cuz isn’t he far above a lot of people stat wise? The good thing about martial arts series, the fighters are relative or downscale from the MC. Which makes their skill feats more impressive.

He massively outskills Ichika, someone who is regarded as a Genius in WR and should easily be above people like Manabu, someone who got 5th dan and 4th dan mastery over Aikido and Karate respectively, both of which take 20 to 30 years individually, and all of this at the age of 16 And he also massively outskills Takuya, again, someone who narratively massively outskilled Ichika to the point where she never beat him in anything in her entire life.

Honestly the only thing impressive here is age, and that’s pretty much it. Ip man’s back story isn’t well known or I can’t remember so idk if he had a similar feat, however he has better skill chain than what you’ve put up here tho.

I don’t even know where to start but let’s start with the best karate students who could take down master martial artists. When the Japanese invaded China, the only way for the people to survive is to win in a fight against their highly trained students. These exceptional karate students often beat the master martial artists to death. One day a grand master appeared and fought one of these students and won. He got food but he got greedy and asked to fight 3 students at once. He lost BADLY. So the number of students matter a lot skill wise. This grand master was IP man’s friend. So IP man accepted the challenge but not for food, instead to avenge his friend. He went up to the Japanese general and demanded he faced 10 of his students at once. IP Man beat them all very very easily. That’s to show how far above IP Man is in skill. Later he went on to face the general himself and it was more difficult than the students so we know the General is far above the students but IP Man defeated him still.

Remember when I said 3 students beat 1 Grand Master and how that Grand Master is IP Man’s friend. Let me tell you how they became friends. Long story short, there was a competition among Grand Master Martial Artists, where you fight on a small round and unstable table to keep the fight very close. If you are able to get the master off the table you win. IP Man easily beat all the grand masters but stalemated his friend cuz the table broke. Of course later on we know IP Man was actually far above him cuz he either trained to surpass him by the next movie or he just held back not to give him serious injuries cuz he gave those students concussions but not the grand masters. Well all we know is IP Man is far above his friend by IP Man 3. IP Man’s most difficult opponents was a boxer who out stat him and can out-fight everyone he had faced so far. IP Man had to use pressure points to beat him but it was high diff. He also had this little fun with Mike Tyson (yeah idk what Mike was doing in the movie) whose punches could take him out easily so he had to weave through em to stalemate him. Lastly we got the first movie where IP just beat a dude with a duster after he attacked him with a sword of course he hands don’t work cuz IP Man was just too far skilled. To put things in perspective, this dude beat all the masters in IP man’s town very easily. Of course some of the best martial arts masters in town weren’t as good as the grand masters or those Japanese Students but they’re still better than the average professional martial artist.

I haven’t watched IP Man 4 yet but I heard it has crazy skill too, I watched a few clips where IP fought hundreds of warriors and stuff then went on to fight the best martial arts fighters in the U.S. Military.

Edit: I just remembered IP Man beating a guy who was one of the best fighters of the movie series. He did it without seeing and by anticipating the dude’s moves via the sound his opponent’s attacks through the air.

So yeah IP Man is far more skilled than feats you put up here even though we don’t get a backstory on how old he was when he became this skilled. Ayan is 5m away so he better not get skill ******.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Was it stated he knew 20-40 martial arts? How did you arrive at that figure. The rest is impressive considering age but defeating professional martial artists is an extremely easy feat for IP Man since he is so far above not just professionals but a hierarchy of Martial Arts Grand Masters skill wise.

Ayanokouji did it under the age of 9. Also, Ayanokouji beat the instructors in their own games, which was martial arts. Each instructor scales to the professional level with
I didn't arrive at the 20-40 martial arts figure without proof.

Ayanokouji legit learnt a martial arts in 3 months, at the point when he was getting no-diffed in it, in just 3 months, and quickly grew so strong that instructors and Shiro couldn't even reach his level.

Ip Man doesn't have any feat which he did when he was too young, and let me tell you, the age in which Ayanokouji did it, it takes people 10s of years just to reach what he did in 3 months, it's heavy adaptability and BIQ. If we were talking with feats, I can decently get Manabu above Ip Man in BIQ and adaptability. Ayanokouji has higher Bodily Kinesthetic.

Well that depends on how fast he can because IP takes out his opponents very quickly.

I don't think so. Ip Man doesn't even have 10% of intuition in information analysis of what Ayanokouji possesses.

Does Ip Man regularly perform evaluations on each of his opponents?
Does Ip Man form battle strategies without even fighting with the people?
Does Ip Man know almost everything about anatomy to enhance his "pressure points"?
Has Ip Man practiced so many martial arts that he can just replicate an already seen technique by just absorbing information and connecting it with everything he has learnt?
Can Ip Man calculate and guess a person's location on a map just by knowing their running speed and guessing their intentions?

Because Ayanokouji does. All Ip Man has is experience, and experience doesn't matter in an Ayanokouji fight, this dude scales to an Extraordinary Genius rating, which is at least a 3 to 4 times higher mental age than their current age, although I would say that it the 3-4x is literally a lowball and Ayanokouji should decently scale way above this.

Speed has to have played a part here cuz isn’t he far above a lot of people stat wise? The good thing about martial arts series, the fighters are relative or downscale from the MC. Which makes their skill feats more impressive.

No, Ayanokouji necessarily doesn't show his speed much often. The only times when he does is when he is in a very tight situations. Tsubaki legit thought that Riku could easily defeat Ayanokouji because Ayanokouji literally revealed his skill set just to Ryuuen's level. Ayanokouji scales too high in his own verse but he doesn't expend more effort than he needs to. Now, this is a huge metacognition feat. Not only does he know his own abilities but he also knows where his opponents scale to. Fighting someone similar in skill and speed? Ayanokouji fought Shiro at the age of 9, and let me tell you, Shiro possesses way higher BIQ and adaptability than Ip Man, because Shiro has the similar feats as Ayanokouji up to age 9.

Honestly the only thing impressive here is age, and that’s pretty much it. Ip man’s back story isn’t well known or I can’t remember so idk if he had a similar feat, however he has better skill chain than what you’ve put up here tho.

I am not even talking about how the age is impressive, I am talking about BIQ. BIQ is directly proportional to one's FRI and Bodily Kinesthetic, both in which Ayanokouji scales way higher than Ip Man. Not only that, but unless Ip Man has a really broken move (which he doesn't) which isn't nearly related to martial arts (which it isn't) or biologically impossible (...isn't), Ayanokouji will just mimic his move by absorbing the visual information.

I don’t even know where to start but let’s start with the best karate students who could take down master martial artists. When the Japanese invaded China, the only way for the people to survive is to win in a fight against their highly trained students. These exceptional karate students often beat the master martial artists to death. One day a grand master appeared and fought one of these students and won. He got food but he got greedy and asked to fight 3 students at once. He lost BADLY. So the number of students matter a lot skill wise. This grand master was IP man’s friend. So IP man accepted the challenge but not for food, instead to avenge his friend. He went up to the Japanese general and demanded he faced 10 of his students at once. IP Man beat them all very very easily. That’s to show how far above IP Man is in skill. Later he went on to face the general himself and it was more difficult than the students so we know the General is far above the students but IP Man defeated him still.

Beating several people at once isn't a skill feat, it's a stamina feat, unless the 10 people whom you fight have pulled up an insane strategy, and in this case, I would personally say that despite fighting only 2 people, Tsukishiro and Shiba, Ayanokouji's this feat scales way above just beating 10 people. And why so?

• Both Tsukishiro and Shiba scale way lower than Ayanokouji, they were still able to dominate over him.
• Both Tsukishiro and Shiba had done an insane preparation to just resist Ayanokouji's insane information analysis and analytical prediction.
• Both Tsukishiro and Shiba are experienced people who are in their 40s or 50s and on the same age as Ip Man prime. All the more, they are more skilled and have higher BIQ than established geniuses in the series, meanwhile Ip Man just scales to gifted.

COTE isn't about how fast you are, how strong you are or how many martial arts you know, a person with a superior strategy can eventually take up huge tyrants.

Remember when I said 3 students beat 1 Grand Master and how that Grand Master is IP Man’s friend. Let me tell you how they became friends. Long story short, there was a competition among Grand Master Martial Artists, where you fight on a small round and unstable table to keep the fight very close. If you are able to get the master off the table you win. IP Man easily beat all the grand masters but stalemated his friend cuz the table broke. Of course later on we know IP Man was actually far above him cuz he either trained to surpass him by the next movie or he just held back not to give him serious injuries cuz he gave those students concussions but not the grand masters. Well all we know is IP Man is far above his friend by IP Man 3. IP Man’s most difficult opponents was a boxer who out stat him and can out-fight everyone he had faced so far. IP Man had to use pressure points to beat him but it was high diff. He also had this little fun with Mike Tyson (yeah idk what Mike was doing in the movie) whose punches could take him out easily so he had to weave through em to stalemate him. Lastly we got the first movie where IP just beat a dude with a duster after he attacked him with a sword of course he hands don’t work cuz IP Man was just too far skilled. To put things in perspective, this dude beat all the masters in IP man’s town very easily. Of course some of the best martial arts masters in town weren’t as good as the grand masters or those Japanese Students but they’re still better than the average professional martial artist.

No matter what you say, Ip Man's training was never even 1% of Ayanokouji's training. His training is still human and was narratively said to give humanly best possible skills right?

"I explained to you at the time that we had created a curriculum with 10 difficulty levels, but the Beta was a different dimension that would never be reached. In effect, we considered the fifth or sixth level to be the limit of human development."

Fifth of sixth level was the limit of human development. Ayanokouji is level 10, so he already far transcends the amount of skills a normal person would ever reach in their lifetime. Let me tell you, Ayanokouji reached Beta curriculum as well, and it is considered to be so hard that even a WR planner like Suzukake who thought the 10 levels could be passed considered it as a "different dimension".

The Beta Curriculum was described to be so hard, that Atsuomi (Ayanokouji's father) himself said that Ayanokouji could even die (but the chad didn't care though).

"That's why I said I would adopt the Beta curriculum for my child's generation. It's for the sake of research. Feel free to tell me, and I don't care if he dies."

And the fact that Ip Man struggled against world-class athletes means that his skill level is still not up to a world-class athleticism, Ayanokouji was himself described to get to a level where he couldn't even be said to be a human being,

"By the eighth year, the remaining children were down to five. Considering that there were 74 children at the beginning, the dropout rate was over 93%. The average dropout rate from the first to the third year was 27%, and 30% from the fifth year onward. The curriculum was reckless. At this point, I was afraid that all of them would've dropped out in the middle of their ninth year. No... I was rather hoping that they'd drop out. In the case where there was a child who could stay and continue to follow a curriculum that no human being should ever follow... That child would no longer be human, they'd be a monster. That cannot exist. As if to bring that reality into existence, when the new spring arrived, there was only one child left. But here's the problem. That one remaining child hasn't shown any sign of dropping out after 10, 11, 12 years. On the contrary, he's come to outperform us researchers and leaders. The adults with superficial knowledge left the White Room in less than a few days, holding their heads in their hands. The original purpose of the White Room was to continue education into adulthood, but the thought of six more years... I can't do it. That kid is going to outgrow us in the near future. This isn't a hunch, it's a certainty. And at the same time, I don't know why that's possible. Is it the product of my curriculum or a genetic mutation? I can't prove why he didn't drop out and continued to survive. It's driving me crazy." So-how should the existence of the White Room and Kiyotaka be viewed in the future?

but literally a monster. And you might have seen stuff about genetic mutation and stuff.

I wouldn't scale Ip Man to an unrealistic skill level, while Ayanokouji literally scales to even an unrealistic skill level by the age of just 9.

I haven’t watched IP Man 4 yet but I heard it has crazy skill too, I watched a few clips where IP fought hundreds of warriors and stuff then went on to fight the best martial arts fighters in the U.S. Military.

Again, it's a stamina feat.

Edit: I just remembered IP Man beating a guy who was one of the best fighters of the movie series. He did it without seeing and by anticipating the dude’s moves via the sound his opponent’s attacks through the air.

Manabu victim

"Kuku. I knew you wouldn't take me up on it".
As Ryuuen laughs lightly, he plants his crossed feet on the ground. Right after that, using a frontal kick, he sends snow flying towards the older Horikita's face. The point of it was to blind the opponent.
Looking for the moment where he becomes agitated after his vision is lost from the snow, Ryuuen launches his right fist forward aiming for the older Horikita's abdomen.
Towards that, without even giving off the feeling that his vision is obstructed, the older Horikita predicts the attack and completely guards against it. Even as he falls back, without panicking, calmly, he used his middle finger to adjust his glasses by the bridge.
"I thought you were just an intelligent bastard who only has his craftiness, but you're quite good aren't you?".

+

Takuya victim

There were two faculty members present, but Yagami-kun was acting like it was of no concern to him at all. He had completely changed -he was now seething with anger. Just as Yagami-kun was about to move in on Ryuuen-kun, Ibuki-san attempted to land a jump kick on Yagami- kun from behind. Without even turning around to look, Yagami-kun dodged her attack and drove his elbow into her abdomen."Ack!"One single hit. It was just one blow, but Ibuki-san collapsed into a heap on the spot, unable to stand back up.

+

Of course, Ayanokouji victim

Nanase must have not been able to stand listening to what I had to say for a minute longer, because she lunged right for me. The sharpness that had existed mere moments ago was now gone. I probably could have dodged her even with my eyes closed right now.

Also, Ayanokouji doesn't need sound, he had been established to pretty much just sense his opponents in the area around him, even when they try everything to hide their presence, only Ayanokouji can kill his presence and resist the hax of his own quality.

So yeah IP Man is far more skilled than feats you put up here even though we don’t get a backstory on how old he was when he became this skilled. Ayan is 5m away so he better not get skill ******.

Read the light novel bud, I clearly don't see Ip Man getting above even Ichika in BIQ with this. Ayanokouji possesses way more martial arts, way higher information analysis, higher prediction capability and higher battler strategy feats.

Defeating a hundred Suzunes (a character from COTE with above average martial arts knowledge and practice) shouldn't be a challenge for Ayanokouji.

His pressure points is also better than Ip Man so he pretty much can take down him in a shot. His anatomy knowledge far surpasses the anatomy knowledge of Ip Man.

He can also mimic Ip Man's techniques by just absorbing them unless they are biologically impossible. And just because you mentioned enhanced senses, Ayanokouji also surpasses in that, he doesn't need sound to do stuff, but he can basically sense the presences in the 3D space around him. Ayanokouji has mastery over boxing, taijutsu, judo, karate and MMA.

Ayanokouji also easily has higher mental age parameters than Ip Man, so I don't think that battle experience is even a problem for him.

In short, Ip Man is skill stomped.

And let me remind you, these aren't the best Ayanokouji feats, I am planning to add many in next COTE CRTs.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

• Accelerated Development via Training isn’t a skill feat. So leave all the ages out of the conversation. There’s no prep time here.
• IP Man has outskilled masters who out-skill other masters in boxing, taijutsu, judo, and karate (MMA is just a mix of them) with Wing Chun alone. So knowing multiple martial arts is not a factor and you still haven’t shown me where it’s stated bro knows 20-40 martial arts.
• Simply beating professionals in martial arts aren’t enough. IP has defeated masters who surpass masters who are superior to other masters in martial arts.
• The match distance is 5m + No prep, so all the strategizing isn’t useful and I don’t think Ayan is the type to run away assuming IP doesn’t defeat him in moments.
• Beating multiple extremely skilled opponents is a skill feat. Especially when those opponents are somewhat comparable in stats. 1 is comparable in skill to a master martial artist. 3 beat a master who previously bested 1. There is strength in numbers however, IP Man easily out skilled 10 in sheer close combat. Something Ayan hasnt been shown to do here without constantly strategizing unless he is far above them in stats.
• The average martial artist master has knowledge on all pressure point areas. Ayan isn’t special, even though the literature makes what he does more impressive than it actually is. The average bio/medical student has extensive knowledge on human anatomy and only the pressure points are useful information. Ayan is simply a nerd who knows PP. IP is a chad who knows PP.
• The world class athletes are superhuman with a higher AP than all of TOTE… so yeah that’s why IP Man had some trouble with the best of the best of the best fighters.
• Lastly I am aware that TOTE characters like Manabu, Takuya and Ayan have Enhanced Senses. You’re missing the part where IP Man defeated one of the most skilled fighter in the series without sight.

So yeah the picking apart the paragraph and taking those parts and treating them as just one thing was cool and all but that just shows that TOTE characters don’t have the level of skill of skill to match a whole paragraph of information at once. That whole information was made to show the hierarchy of skilled fighters in IP Man and IS NOT just a list of examples of people IP man has fought and how they were defeated. The point is those guys are better than the best and IP man defeated them.

IP Man > The best Martial Arts fighter in the U.S. Military and Boxers like Mike Tyson and Twister (Yes they are superhuman in this movie by virtue of scaling to those with superhuman feats) > Master Hong (Stalemated IP Man in a round table match that eventually broke before either of em could get the win) > The Japanese; General Muira > Martial Arts Students of each comparable to Martial Arts Masters (IP man defeated 10, whereas great masters couldn’t defeat 3) > The most distinguished Master Martial Artists in HungKong that ip man easily defeated on a slippery and unstable small round table (Master Zhang > Master Luo >~ Other Masters who are unwilling to fight IP)> Jin Shanzhao (wanted to prove his northern style was better than southern style by beating multiple southern martial arts masters) ~ The Average Northern Martial Arts Masters > Southern Martial Arts Masters > The average no name well trained martial artists trained by all these masters above.

So far in TOTE all I see from your arguments are Ayan >>> The other students > Martial Arts professionals. IP Man dwarfs this skill chain.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I feel like COTE is heavily wanked ngl

 

[Arnoldstone18]

So now the point of contention is whether or not Ayan’s intelligence (battle intelligence not inapplicable forms of intelligence like knowing shit, one has to be capable of applying said knowledge in battle in an advantageous way), information analysis and analytical prediction can overcome an overwhelming amount of skill.

Is there anywhere I can read a well indexed page? You guys said the page rn is bad so is there like a sand box?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I feel like COTE is heavily wanked ngl

One day I’ll read this series to see what the hype is about.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

How is Ayanokoji's power mimicry combat applicable?

Does he have any feats of mimicking fighting technique(s)?

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

One day I’ll read this series to see what the hype is about.

Good luck (and I genuinely hope that you won't bump into the powerscalers who think Ayanokoji is high hypersonic based off him saying "my left fist tore through the air" because they're annoying as ****)

 

[Worthless]

To be frank your vote doesn't matter. I said this matchup should be put on hold until I get Ayanokouji's Anpr removed.

Either it's due to your lack of knowledge of COTE, or you are in extreme denial. What you've seen from the profile has more to it. I'm sure the majority of COTE fans here have never bothered reading the novel from the start and instead jumped straight to the volume where the anime ended.

In any case, I'm voting for Ayanokoji based on the reasons stated by Roger or Rogger

 

[RoggerReggor]

• Accelerated Development via Training isn’t a skill feat. So leave all the ages out of the conversation. There’s no prep time here.

I literally talked about only their BIQ and how fast of learners they are. Adaptability matters a lot in their fights, I am not even talking about Accelerated Development over here.

This heavily pushes the Bodily Kinesthetic ability of the fighter whom Ayanokouji will be fighting.

• IP Man has outskilled masters who out-skill other masters in boxing, taijutsu, judo, and karate (MMA is just a mix of them) with Wing Chun alone. So knowing multiple martial arts is not a factor and you still haven’t shown me where it’s stated bro knows 20-40 martial arts.

Has he done it to the point where he can mimic some physically possible move which is near to what he has learnt by just absorbing information of it?

Again, I respect the fact that he defeated people with Wing Chun alone, more like I already know that, but sadly, it isn't enough. Those masters or Ip Man himself were never stated to know stuff to a degree to which humans cannot reach. I hate this hierarchy system of going from masters to masters of masters, and stuff. For one, all of these people including Ip Man, unless they have similar statements to the point where Ayanokouji scales to, that is, having something better than what is humanly possible to its extreme degree, I don't care who they are, whether they be masters, or masters of masters, Ayanokouji still has his narratively powered better stuff.

Another thing is that Ip Man himself is "Gifted", and yeah, he is very close to "Genius", only if we knew about his backstory much, but I am telling you, we are underestimating Ayanokouji, he has an EG rating, and it will apply even to his combat if we see his feats.

He learnt a single martial art in just 3 months against Shiro and from that point, he had developed this rate higher and higher (Shiro said this and it has even been accepted). Shiro mentioned it when they were nearly 9-years-old at around level 10, so his Beta curriculum should have rate way higher than this.

Shiro said that he had started doing it some decent years ago, but let's say that 3 months is the average, so Ayanokouji trained for nearly 10 years. There are 4 times 3 months in a year. So, this number becomes 40, considering how WR training never stopped, but yeah, I will say that this is still a very high number considering how many people can only see him performing around 12 martial arts (again, this isn't VSBW-supported, this is just fans using their martial arts knowledge and seeing the anime to determine which martial arts move he actually used, we have confirmed only around 5 to 6, but he somehow manages to see through martial arts techniques of every student he comes across), so I think 20 is still a generously cool number. I really thought you would do the math after I said that (obviously I gave half information). Sorry bro.

• Simply beating professionals in martial arts aren’t enough. IP has defeated masters who surpass masters who are superior to other masters in martial arts.

Yeah, but with years of training. Ayanokouji's martial arts curriculum started at 4 years of age, he defeated all the professionals who taught him things who should be masters in their own fields at a lowball, with just 5 years of training, around the age of 9. Note that Ayanokouji basically defeated people so much that even his instructors were bored, every time he defeated someone, a new challenge was brought, so one time, he even had to face multiple members from what be an entire Yakuza gang. You still haven't given me a scan or a feat where Ip Man's training is said to be humanly impossible to an absurd degree like the Beta Curriculum, like Ayanokouji should pretty much have descended upon all the masters, masters of masters and other crap which is humanly possible if he did the Beta Curriculum, and it isn't a debate that even a person with levels higher than 5 or 6 are .

Beta Curriculum was described as much tougher than the normal levels (which get humanly impossible after level 5 or 6, and sadly, except for this, we know nothing. You might say that Ip Man would be a 70-year-old and would have fought and fought only, for his entire life, and then we have this one statement from Kiyotaka's father where he says that Ayanokouji possessed more knowledge about stuff than what a person could learn in his entire life, sometimes his knowledge is even quantified as "immeasurable". So, unless you prove that Ip Man scales to this level, I simple don't take him beating some real-world possible geniuses seriously.

• The match distance is 5m + No prep, so all the strategizing isn’t useful and I don’t think Ayan is the type to run away assuming IP doesn’t defeat him in moments.

Doesn't matter, he didn't do it in any of his notable fights either Ayanokouji has strategized even against opponents who don't even be 1% of what he should identify as threat. An analysis is his natural instinct. Plus, he also evaluated the characters who should possess a threat to him. He possesses way higher strategizing. And yeah, none of these fights, except for the Ryuuen fight had any kind of prior planning for him OR any kind of preparation. In fact, his level is so high that he evaluated Ryuuen to be of like higher level than where he actually was supposed to be, and yeah, it didn't cause him any problems.

• Beating multiple extremely skilled opponents is a skill feat. Especially when those opponents are somewhat comparable in stats. 1 is comparable in skill to a master martial artist. 3 beat a master who previously bested 1. There is strength in numbers however, IP Man easily out skilled 10 in sheer close combat. Something Ayan hasnt been shown to do here without constantly strategizing unless he is far above them in stats.

Heavy misconception here. Ayanokouji strategized even against Ryuuen (even a 100 of him don't seem like much if we see narratives) who scales way lower in stats. Strategizing is what he does every time, it doesn't matter if The only time he went berserk mode on-screen was against the 6 professional fighters where he literally had the intent to kill them.

Secondly, as I said, those 10 people aren't to the level Tsukishiro and Shiba are. Tsukishiro and Shiba literally had inferiority to Ayanokouji, even if you add their stats (stated in Y2V7), and they still dominated him. In fact, he was afraid to attack one character at any point of the fight because he had sensed that the second would attack him at any moment he left an opening.

Tsukishiro and Shiba had strategized to just overcome his analysis.

• The average martial artist master has knowledge on all pressure point areas. Ayan isn’t special, even though the literature makes what he does more impressive than it actually is. The average bio/medical student has extensive knowledge on human anatomy and only the pressure points are useful information. Ayan is simply a nerd who knows PP. IP is a chad who knows PP.

Did bro legit call a person who has harem bigger than we all will ever have, a nerd?

Again, I don't know why mention about students but no, Ayanokouji isn't a Biology or Medical student, his knowledge is in almost all the fields of science.

• The world class athletes are superhuman with a higher AP than all of TOTE… so yeah that’s why IP Man had some trouble with the best of the best of the best fighters.

I talked about the skill level. Also, he shouldn't, at least for me, if he possesses pressure points. Pressure points is a skill where you should take opponents with

• Lastly I am aware that TOTE characters like Manabu, Takuya and Ayan have Enhanced Senses. You’re missing the part where IP Man defeated one of the most skilled fighter in the series without sight.

How does that change the fact that Ayanokouji is still superior because he simply has hax where he just scans his surroundings and is not like Ip Man who needs sound?

IP Man > The best Martial Arts fighter in the U.S. Military and Boxers like Mike Tyson and Twister (Yes they are superhuman in this movie by virtue of scaling to those with superhuman feats) > Master Hong (Stalemated IP Man in a round table match that eventually broke before either of em could get the win) > The Japanese; General Muira > Martial Arts Students of each comparable to Martial Arts Masters (IP man defeated 10, whereas great masters couldn’t defeat 3) > The most distinguished Master Martial Artists in HungKong that ip man easily defeated on a slippery and unstable small round table (Master Zhang > Master Luo >~ Other Masters who are unwilling to fight IP)> Jin Shanzhao (wanted to prove his northern style was better than southern style by beating multiple southern martial arts masters) ~ The Average Northern Martial Arts Masters > Southern Martial Arts Masters > The average no name well trained martial artists trained by all these masters above.

So far in TOTE all I see from your arguments are Ayan >>> The other students > Martial Arts professionals. IP Man dwarfs this skill chain.

Are you literally flexxing scaling chain of a work which is completely for martial arts against a work which is a work of psychological warfare? Of course, the former is going to be a big chain for obvious reasons. Also, being superhuman doesn't mean you have a skill level which is superhuman, both are way different things.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I feel like COTE is heavily wanked ngl

No. It isn't. Ayanokouji's level wasn't even measurable by a facility which had millions of funds. Imo, having an immeasurable skill level is far better than having the skill level of decades of years which is still quantifiable.

And it is so much so that Ayanokouji had started holding back even in WR.

How is Ayanokoji's power mimicry combat applicable?

Does he have any feats of mimicking fighting technique(s)?

He hasn't. But either way, it is still combat applicable. He himself mentioned that he had learnt so much of stuff that he could just absorb information from someone doing a sport and just apply his practical knowledge and learn it. He learnt a complex sport like skiing by absorbing information, for what I would suppose to be seconds, I don't think mimicking a fighting technique should be any hard for him, unless there was someone who uses extremely supernatural stuff like fire magic.

And competitive martial arts is considered a sport even by Olympics.

 

[Worthless]

No. It isn't. Ayanokouji's level wasn't even measurable by a facility which had millions of funds. Imo, having an immeasurable skill level is far better than having the skill level of decades of years which is still quantifiable.

And it is so much so that Ayanokouji had started holding back even in WR.

I've seen this so many times. People saying COTE is wank, which I find rather funny because they are essentially admitting that the reason behind their disbelief is that they didn't expect these extraordinary feats to happen in a supposedly just about-a-show featuring an elite school and the genius, super cool MC.

 

[RoggerReggor]

After asking an Ip Man connoisseur and a martial arts enthusiast, I have found that while Ip Man essentially fought students to masters, the ranks of these masters were never revealed, they may have a shown mastery, but their ranks aren't revealed for a part.

This is how the system works:
Master rank => Black Belt
Mastery 1st degree => 1st Dan Black Belt
Mastery 2nd degree => 2nd Dan Black Belt
...
Grand mastery => Final Dan (subjective to the martial art)

Now I present you, the first estimation on ranking of martial arts of COTE characters!

For one, let's take a mid-tier from COTE for example, Manabu Horikita, someone who possesses 5th dan in Karate and 4th dan in Aikido, which means that he has a 5th degree mastery in Karate and 4th degree mastery in Aikido, both of the martial arts tend to have 10 dans, so 10th dan is a level which is the grandmaster level, or as Arnold says, the master of master level. A 10th dan is way superior to a previous dan in skills, as dans are perfecting of skills and are not similar to the kyu ranks which are student ranks (the ones in which you gain different colour belts to show your rank, rather than a dan).

However, let's consider how great Manabu is himself. If Manabu would have spent all the time he took in mastering Aikido in mastering Karate, he should have descended to the 7th or 8th dan easily. Let's not forget that all of these legit requires 30 to 35 years of training and Manabu should have done all of this in 14 to 15 years of age, so he himself is an upper-world genius in the COTE world.

As much as I love Manabu, he's still a fodder skill-wise. Let's now consider Ichika Amasawa, someone who has been described to be much superior to Manabu Horikita, so, Ichika should easily be a grandmaster level or master of master level. Let's consider Takuya now, this guy is described to be MASSIVELY superior to Ichika, in literally every way, to the point where Ichika cannot even win against his casual self. Takuya by this should be a master of these grandmaster titles which Ichika should have, considering her own hierarchy with Manabu and Takuya.

Let's now consider an instructor from COTE. Takuya for sure feared the top-level instructors from COTE in Y2V7, and they should be massively superior to Takuya (for possibly being the best instructors who trained Ayanokouji up to level 10, Takuya is only level 4 btw and his generation didn't even focus much on individualism). These instructors should easily be like a grandmaster of a grandmaster themselves. Also, while all of this is an estimation, it is heavily based on the statements they have.

By statements, even Ichika should have the skills of at least the upper-world limits, considering her monologue and the White Room stuff. We know for a fact that whatever in COTE is considered as "upper-world limits" can easily be said to be superhuman through real world stuff (Housen was considered to have an a humanly possible training, but Suzune herself said in the later volumes that he was a superhuman, same goes for Arisu's statements). So, for now, let's say that instructors possess the skills of at least the upper world limits, which is via sheer lowballing the hierarchy between the characters. So, a single instructor should be around world-class level, at least in COTE (above a lot through real-world logics). This can be further confirmed by a narrative of how many instructors in COTE, who were responsible for teaching sports were basically coaches who coached literal Olympic athletes in the past, and WR subjects were expected to be above even the Olympic athletes.

Now, coming to our main boy, Ayanokouji Kiyotaka. This guy absolutely stomps, no, curbstomps every single character mentioned before. The statement by Shiro where Ayanokouji perfect his skills in just 3 months basically means that whatever that instructor achieved in his entire life, Ayanokouji did all of that in just 3 months, which is narratively correct due to the fact that Ayanokouji at some point just became some superhuman who started absorbing information and learn things in an instant and all correctly.

Ayanokouji is so superior to every character that if you described the other characters as pure level 1 students in their martial arts and Ayanokouji as dan 10 black belt, it would still be lowballing to midballing, which can be confirmed by seeing the fact that he was surpassing the upper-world limits set in the verse by the age of 9 and he himself implied that he was holding back at many cases and had become unbeatable with a 67 wins streak. He is kind of the grandmaster of grandmasters of grandmasters by the time he is level 10 or 9-years-old, not to mention this thread uses his prime, so it would just be grandmaster^4, or master^8.

If we see the fact that Suzune mentioned that Ichika surpassed the upper world limits, then it would be just instructor becoming a master^6 and prime Ayanokouji being about master^10. Again, all of this is basically an estimation on the skill level of Ayanokouji in particularly martial arts. Yes, he severely lacks experience against Ip Man, but there are works like The Boxer, Reality Quest and Lookism, where being an experienced as good as being a low-tier in the verse and only geniuses climb up to the top. I mentioned it like 3 times that this is just an estimation on the skill level using a real-world martial arts grading system because many people in the thread were heavily misinformed about the verse or didn't know how skilled the characters were.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Aight, before I dedicate time to this, are we still doing this match? @Vzearr


Cuz the information I’m learning offsite about koji are not good and I know this will take too much of time with all these posts relentlessly defending said character. So I need to know if we still on hold and/or there’s some kind of CRT or something correcting this character so I don’t waste my time responding to all this? I have a lot of stuff to do irl.

---

FYI Rogger… you can gauge skill/strength/speed by knowing someone without being spoon fed with statements of some kind of “rank”. For example, simply viewing how much a god tier character struggles against his opponents or how good his opponents fight the god tier are very good indicators of knowing which opponent is a better fighter and which isn’t and in no way shape or form did I say there was a rank system. There are obviously masters who are better than other masters as shown by how well they perform against IP. The masters in IP’s town performed less than the masters in hongkong.

 

[Vzearr]

Either it's due to your lack of knowledge of COTE, or you are in extreme denial. What you've seen from the profile has more to it. I'm sure the majority of COTE fans here have never bothered reading the novel from the start and instead jumped straight to the volume where the anime ended.

In any case, I'm voting for Ayanokoji based on the reasons stated by Roger or Rogger

Either you're extremely ignorant or you don't like me. I think its both.

This match was put on pause. Its as simple as that. Why are you guys still debating ?

 

[RoggerReggor]

FYI Rogger… you can gauge skill/strength/speed by knowing someone without being spoon fed with statements of some kind of “rank”. For example, simply viewing how much a god tier character struggles against his opponents or how good his opponents fight the god tier are very good indicators of knowing which opponent is a better fighter and which isn’t and in no way shape or form did I say there was a rank system. There are obviously masters who are better than other masters as shown by how well they perform against IP. The masters in IP’s town performed less than the masters in hongkong.

Again, I know that this thread is basically put on pause, but Ayanokouji himself is being heavily underrated over here. Also, struggling a lot against a character doesn't necessarily give you a master degree over another person. After dan 3, it takes a significant amount of experience to just reach another dan, to the point where the experience required to reach from dan 1 to 3 is comparable to the experience required to reach from dan 3 to 4.

Also, there are many ways you can find out a grandmaster, like normal grandmasters have black belts on which they have the names of their schools and their own name written in Chinese/Japanese/Korean/Thai (subjective to your origin country of martial arts).

This match was put on pause. Its as simple as that. Why are you guys still debating ?

Ask some staff to close the thread. It's obvious that new people would come to an active thread and you should put in the title itself that this thread is on pause.

 

[Worthless]

Either you're extremely ignorant or you don't like me. I think its both.

This match was put on pause. Its as simple as that. Why are you guys still debating ?

. The only ignorant here is the person who blatantly denies the feats, but go on. And I barely know your existence enough to care or hate you.

 

[Vzearr]

. The only ignorant here is the person who blatantly denies the feats, but go on. And I barely know your existence enough to care or hate you.

Okay dude.

 

[RoggerReggor]

This should be locked for now, threads can be reopened by a thread mod or an admin.

 

[Dinozxd]

And I barely know your existence enough to care or hate you.

@Vzearr You're getting cooked over here

 

[Vzearr]

@Vzearr You're getting cooked over here

Who cares. Its worthless to argue with people who dislike you.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

. The only ignorant here is the person who blatantly denies the feats, but go on. And I barely know your existence enough to care or hate you.

Bro wouldn't beat his ban allegation fr fr

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Who cares. Its worthless to argue with people who dislike you.

Just ignore him, @Worthless is one of the most problematic user here

 

[Worthless]

Just ignore him, @Worthless is one of the most problematic user here

I don't even know you

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I don't even know you

@Worthless are you DeathIlllI from YouTube any chance?

 

[Worthless]

@Worthless are you DeathIlllI from YouTube any chance?

I don't do YouTube debates, in case you are referring to the person you've come across there. And are you Yagami by chance? Because that dude is the only person that's actively talking about Tokyo Revengers here. I wonder what happened to that guy, probably the only few people here that can take insults

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

A great chunk of guys have Yagami in their names xD

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

If you're referring to cloudyagami, he's banned.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Soo... Does this match continue?