Marisa Kirisame vs Vegeta: Rematch

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

There's been a lot of revisions to Touhou and Marisa especially since this matchup was last occurred and the loss was added to her profile. She's gained a lot of abilities, resistances, and haxx on her profile, so it's worth redoing the matchup to see if the outcome would be any different and if it should still be on her profile. The last thread also seemed to have confusion over her optional equipment, and some of her optional equipment is quite potent, so I'll split the thread into two separate fights, one with and one without optional equips.

Both characters in their L2C keys (Vegeta's SSB Broly Saga Key, Marisa's L2C Windows Key)

Speed equalized for obvious reasons.

Win via incap allowed.

Fight 1: Marisa is allowed no optional equipment, only her base moveset.

Ordinary Magician: 5 (Fujiwara, Okuno_Sonic, FantaRin, Ottavio, Braking)

Prince of Saiyans:

Fight 2: Marisa is allowed all of her optional equipment

Ordinary Magician: 5 (Fujiwara, Okuno_Sonic, FantaRin, Ottavio, Braking)

Prince of Saiyans:

I'll add the votes as the discussion goes on, and will probably join in on the discussion myself.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

So Marisa's starting move here is danmaku... which poses a problem, since Spirit manipulation is a thing, and will effectively nullify any and all AP advantages Vegeta has within a few seconds, as well as drain his Ki and obliterate his soul, mind, and emotions. Now, Vegeta can technically explode Marisa's organs and win via that, but from what I've heard that is not something he leads with, and when Touhou danmaku is >>>>> anything in Dragon Ball, Vegeta gets hit once and Marisa just snowballs from there. Also, she can just, yknow, cause him so much pain he's unable to act, "gameify" his powers so they become non-lethal, or seal away his powers entirely. Basically Vegeta has one very specific wincon in the first fight, which he may or may not even lead with, as opposed to Marisa opening with a very easy wincon.

The second fight is just straight up unfair, Marisa has like 10 different ways to amp herself, can make herself invulnerable, stop time, nullify Vegeta's powers with poison that harms the soul itself, turn him to solid gold, telekinetically reflect his own attacks back at him, and she has no less than four means of coming back from the dead if Vegeta somehow bypasses all of that.

TL;DR: The fattest asscheeks in Gensokyo clap the Prince of Saiyans low diff. This is definitely a stomp thread, but I think it's necessary to act as proof of Marisa's currently listed loss to DBS Vegeta being wrong.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

The second matchup is, yeah, completely invariably unfair. It's why it was very important to make it a separate debate. There's also the fact that if Marisa uses the Ultramarine Orb Elixir, she's just, won the fight, Vegeta has no counter to that at all, would have no method to kill her permanently, and it would just give Marisa infinite tries to use her dozens of ways to end the fight near instantly.

The main reason for the thread is fight 1 pretty much haha.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Marisa stomp both rounds, sadly.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Marisa stomp both rounds, sadly.

I'm no DB supporter, I'm still pretty early in reading DB, but to play devil's advocate he at least seems to have two possible win options, I wouldn't say it's a complete stomp.

Vegeta has a pretty massive AP advantage in L2C via DBs absurd scaling chains and multipliers, I don't think Marisa's scaling chain would compare at all, she could likely get one shot by a single attack. If Vegeta also had a mind to use telekinesis (I have no idea how close his range has to be to utilize it) he could totally kill her with it via organ destruction. Marisa can regenerate her soul just fine, but not her body, that would kill her.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I'd suggest waiting for a DB supporter to elaborate on those two points tbh

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

I'd suggest waiting for a DB supporter to elaborate on those two points tbh

That's the plan for now. DB is one of the most active/important verses on the site, I'm sure someone will notice this in time lol.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Dragon Ball, sadly, doesn't have a wall of resistance that allows them to be a threat to Touhou folks these days. What Fuji said is 100% true, Vegs, more or less, gets hax'ed to death within the first few moments due to not knowing what Marisa' danmaku could do.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Dragon Ball, sadly, doesn't have a wall of resistance that allows them to be a threat to Touhou folks these days. What Fuji said is 100% true, Vegs, more or less, gets hax'ed to death within the first few moments due to not knowing what Marisa' danmaku could do.

What a world we live in where a character noted in-universe to be basically haxless still outhaxes like 90% of her opponents.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Hey, we also live in a world where Saitama, the one-punch man who beats his foes with no effort, can now skill-stomp both Vegeta and Goku to the point of it being a spite match - sanity has long since left this world... Getting to the point, Marisa just stomps Vegeta to the ground now. This bares repeating.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

It seems like the best way to continue the debate would be if Vegeta would eventually go for a telekinesis out of desperation before Marisa could completely shut him down, or if he'd be able to get a one shot in or not?

Generally waiting to hear from a DB supporter on this though.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Could give him prior knowledge of Marisa's hax and her threat level? Marisa has ways to one-shot Vegs, so wouldn't it be fair for Vegs to have a possible method of one-shotting her in return?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Could give him prior knowledge of Marisa's hax and her threat level? Marisa has ways to one-shot Vegs, so wouldn't it be fair for Vegs to have a possible method of one-shotting her in return?

Depends on what Vegeta would do in-character when met with a character who he can one-shot but has hax that can kill him very easily. Would he go for a regular one-shot (which Marisa could easily dodge if he uses ki blasts or counter with danmaku if he tries to get in close) or his telekinesis? If it's the former, he still gets stomped.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I imagine after hearing about Marisa's capabilities, Vegeta would go for the latter. At this point of his character development, he would do whatever it took to not **** up after his many ****-ups... Or we can change this to Frieza, give him prior knowledge and bloodlust, and use the fact that Frieza is somebody who... well... uses telekinesis and has the power to blow people up from a distance without needing to touch them to make this match more debatable or smth.... since Frieza is a cocky jackass.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

I'm no DB supporter, I'm still pretty early in reading DB, but to play devil's advocate he at least seems to have two possible win options, I wouldn't say it's a complete stomp.

He's half 2-C so Touhou's Low 2-C doesn't compare. But Marisa's hax will completely outmatch Vegeta's power.

 

[Shmooply]

bump

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I imagine after hearing about Marisa's capabilities, Vegeta would go for the latter. At this point of his character development, he would do whatever it took to not **** up after his many ****-ups... Or we can change this to Frieza, give him prior knowledge and bloodlust, and use the fact that Frieza is somebody who... well... uses telekinesis and has the power to blow people up from a distance without needing to touch them to make this match more debatable or smth.... since Frieza is a cocky jackass.

Based on his listed weaknesses, I think Vegeta's arrogance would still get him killed. I don't think he's pulling out a W unless we bloodlust him.

Let's be real, the moment he points to himself he's already lost.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

I imagine after hearing about Marisa's capabilities, Vegeta would go for the latter. At this point of his character development, he would do whatever it took to not **** up after his many ****-ups... Or we can change this to Frieza, give him prior knowledge and bloodlust, and use the fact that Frieza is somebody who... well... uses telekinesis and has the power to blow people up from a distance without needing to touch them to make this match more debatable or smth.... since Frieza is a cocky jackass.

Well, maybe we could do Marisa vs Frieza later, but the Vegeta MU is probably more important since it's currently listed on her profile.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

...So ability cards are standard now, and Marisa has way more than she did before, in addition to a passive damaging time slow that, with ability cards, also nullifies and transmutes attacks.

This is 100% a ******* stomp, Vegeta tries to punch Marisa once and he gets turned to solid gold. His energy blasts will do **** all too.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

While all of this IS true we should probably wait for it to be added to her profile before using it for the debate. Otherwise I dunno how they handle it being taken off of the profile.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

By looking at this profile,i think you'll have to get into non canon material (aka Dragon Ball Heroes) to beat this girl

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

By looking at this profile,i think you'll have to get into non canon material (aka Dragon Ball Heroes) to beat this girl

Currently DBH's stats are far too high to put against our Marisa profile. Maybe if we can get her to 2A soon we'll open that.

No arguments in Super Vegeta's case then? I'll cast your vote for Marisa.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Currently DBH's stats are far too high to put against our Marisa profile. Maybe if we can get her to 2A soon we'll open that.

No lol

Even at low 1-C, Marisa is horribly outhaxxed

DBH characters are some of the strongest 2-As on the site.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

No lol

Even at low 1-C, Marisa is horribly outhaxxed

DBH characters are some of the strongest 2-As on the site.

I'm not familiar with HOW haxxed DBH is tbh, part of Dragon Ball I know the least about, I just assumed it was massively stronger DB with some timehaxx.

Didn't think they'd actually outhaxx a Touhou though, that's ******* crazy.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I'm not familiar with HOW haxxed DBH is tbh, part of Dragon Ball I know the least about, I just assumed it was massively stronger DB with some timehaxx.

Didn't think they'd actually outhaxx a Touhou though, that's ******* crazy.

4D layered passive power null into layered sealing with a bunch of layered resistance negating bullshit I think. Honestly, you can just look at the character profiles and physiology pages to see how wild it is. Assuming the layering/smurf hax thread gets passed soon, it'll be pretty easy to see how OP they are.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I'm not familiar with HOW haxxed DBH is tbh, part of Dragon Ball I know the least about, I just assumed it was massively stronger DB with some timehaxx.

Didn't think they'd actually outhaxx a Touhou though, that's ******* crazy.

Xenoku(Goku xeno) Defeat Rimuru with hax and equipment, so you know how broken DBH is

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

4D layered passive power null into layered sealing with a bunch of layered resistance negating bullshit I think. Honestly, you can just look at the character profiles and physiology pages to see how wild it is. Assuming the layering/smurf hax thread gets passed soon, it'll be pretty easy to see how OP they are.

I'll definitely look through it if that thread goes through.

I guess it explains why he's put up against Archie Sonic, then. I just assumed it was "OH surely the strongest version of Goku will do better against the strongest version of Sonic..."

Xenoku(Goku xeno) Defeat Rimuru with hax and equipment, so you know how broken DBH is

Christ, lol, yeah that might be a bit overkill for current Marisa.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Bump

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Bump

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

If the new revision goes through I'll just send this to the VS removal request, as Vegeta would have 0 wincons in both scenarios.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

If the new revision goes through I'll just send this to the VS removal request, as Vegeta would have 0 wincons in both scenarios.

Yeah, that might be what's required. Frankly, even if we added this to her profile, it'd have to get removed as soon as those revisions went through, so it's probably best to just have it removed period.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Bump

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

What changed since last time?

 

[Shmooply]

What changed since last time?

Marisa has better hax now. Not like it matters, since she's about to become a haxlord soon thanks to 18.5

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

So she still stomps Vegeta. Good to know.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

What changed since last time?

Well BEFORE 18.5 occurred and gave her access to every single Ability Card and more and a passive time-slowing, damaging field around her body, turning her into a certified haxxlord.

She got a lot more haxx and abilities, such as Spirit Manipulation, which includes abilities like soul manip & absorption, power nullification, mind & emphatic manipulation, stamina reduction & absporption, and a resistance to soul manip herself, among some other abilities. She also gained a couple forms of transmutation, her water based manip from 17.5, limited concept manip (can "gamify" people's abilities to render them non-lethal/less dangerous), and some other things that may or may not be important to the fight.

 

[Braking]

touhou 2-A make it happen

 

[Braking]

4D layered passive power null into layered sealing with a bunch of layered resistance negating bullshit I think. Honestly, you can just look at the character profiles and physiology pages to see how wild it is. Assuming the layering/smurf hax thread gets passed soon, it'll be pretty easy to see how OP they are.

(dont forget them mfs finally got concept hax)

 

[Braking]

goku finna become a better archie sonic ong

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

goku finna become a better archie sonic ong

I presume I can count you as a Marisa vote on both rounds then